| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Dalor Darden |
Posted - 21 Jul 2010 : 22:30:25
Well, I was planning on doing a write-up on The Ride like I did for Ixinos; but I realized I am not actually up to the task...as far as time goes.
Just some initial research is turning up TONS of already published canon information about The Ride, and I don't honestly have time to filter through it all, put it together, put my personal touches on it, and then hope it all turns out right.
Has anyone else thought of doing a project/write-up for the area of The Ride?
EDIT: (8 August 2010)- Well, looks like I'm writing this monster after all...and I do mean a monster! It will make Ixinos look like a tiny kitten next to a hunting tiger!
EDIT: (11 August 2010) - I thought it would be a good idea to list all the tangent threads having to do with all the things that sort of tie into The Ride, so here we go!
The Ride and the Tortured Lands, Ever Covered? http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=7761
Sarphil: http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=7763
Tyranthraxus and the Twisted Ones: http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=13072
Barbarians of the Ride: http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=9863
The Fallen Kingdom of Barze: http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=14015
The Frozen Flindyke: http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=14016
The Horreb: http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=14022
Way of the Powrie: http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=14040
Sorcerer's Isle: http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=14044
Monument of the Ancients Adventure: http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=12924
Questions for Brian R. James: http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=9981
MORE TO COME |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Dalor Darden |
Posted - 03 Nov 2012 : 18:07:50
Still working on this.
I simplified things a bit...and then of course my head began spinning with the Five Shires bit.
I'm still working on this in pieces.
It will be crunch free actually...no mechanics at all (or character classes, alignments and levels). It will simply be lore that can be used.
I like this approach best because it allows anyone to use the material without worry about conversions. A Barbarian Chieftain of The Ride (for example) will simply have a name, history, mannerisms, ambitions and such as that. If someone wants to play in AD&D and make him a Barbarian, then great...but if they want to play 2e and make him a Fighter with a Kit that is great too.
Its required a bit of re-working...and also a bit of outright elimination of some material.
It's coming along in spurts now. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 22 Sep 2012 : 18:41:56
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
It was put on the back burner of my mind because at the time I had taken in 4 little children with my wife besides the three we already had...7 kids in all left little time for what I wanted to do.
I will get back to this in time...I still have all my notes.
Ack!
Been there, done that (several times) - have four kids and have taken in plenty of others. I understand completely, and I hope you don't take this as 'bugging you'.
I've enjoyed the other projects you've worked on, and was just curious as to what happened with this one. |
| Gustaveren |
Posted - 22 Sep 2012 : 16:48:48
I once had a campaign there started in the ride with the players as slaves in a Zhentarim run Quarry.
they managed to break out and then spend several sessions in order to get to civilization |
| Dalor Darden |
Posted - 22 Sep 2012 : 15:58:20
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
*** BUMP ***
Whatever happened with this?
Giants make you loose your mind? 
It was put on the back burner of my mind because at the time I had taken in 4 little children with my wife besides the three we already had...7 kids in all left little time for what I wanted to do.
I will get back to this in time...I still have all my notes. |
| Lord Bane |
Posted - 22 Sep 2012 : 12:48:48
quote:
Originally posted by Matt James
I don't know. Pinky and the Brain are pretty awesome!
I think they tried to emulate their role models and made a bid for world domination  |
| Markustay |
Posted - 22 Sep 2012 : 06:46:09
*** BUMP ***
Whatever happened with this?
Giants make you loose your mind? |
| Dalor Darden |
Posted - 22 Dec 2010 : 04:25:05
quote:
Originally posted by Matt James
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
Does this "Rumor" include work on The Ride?
I'd feel like an utterly moronic arse if I wrote something and then it was immediately invalidated by Canon material.
You should be fine. We haven't even begun work on it yet but I don't think it will do anything to mess you up.
Then away we go... |
| Matt James |
Posted - 21 Dec 2010 : 14:08:45
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
Does this "Rumor" include work on The Ride?
I'd feel like an utterly moronic arse if I wrote something and then it was immediately invalidated by Canon material.
You should be fine. We haven't even begun work on it yet but I don't think it will do anything to mess you up. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 21 Dec 2010 : 03:09:37
quote:
Originally posted by Matt James
quote:
Originally posted by The SageNone can approach the pure levels of Awesome! achieved by the Brothers' James.
I don't know. Pinky and the Brain are pretty awesome!
That's only true if either you or your brother aren't often inclined to ask what the other is pondering. |
| Matt James |
Posted - 21 Dec 2010 : 01:02:15
quote:
Originally posted by The SageNone can approach the pure levels of Awesome! achieved by the Brothers' James.
I don't know. Pinky and the Brain are pretty awesome! |
| Dalor Darden |
Posted - 21 Dec 2010 : 01:02:10
Does this "Rumor" include work on The Ride?
I'd feel like an utterly moronic arse if I wrote something and then it was immediately invalidated by Canon material. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 20 Dec 2010 : 23:34:04
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Matt James
This is what happens when I post on CK with minimal sleep. I meant to say it was below Valjevo Castle. It has, of course, appeared in several places since. As to it's current location-- stay tuned. Rumor on the streets is that a dynamic duo is cooking up something. As to what, I can't say. It's all probably an Internet rumor anyways ;)
A dynamic duo, huh... Batman and Robin? Blue Falcon and Dynomutt? Pinky and the Brain? Han and Chewie?
None can approach the pure levels of Awesome! achieved by the Brothers' James. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 20 Dec 2010 : 20:22:25
quote:
Originally posted by Matt James
This is what happens when I post on CK with minimal sleep. I meant to say it was below Valjevo Castle. It has, of course, appeared in several places since. As to it's current location-- stay tuned. Rumor on the streets is that a dynamic duo is cooking up something. As to what, I can't say. It's all probably an Internet rumor anyways ;)
A dynamic duo, huh... Batman and Robin? Blue Falcon and Dynomutt? Pinky and the Brain? Han and Chewie? |
| Matt James |
Posted - 20 Dec 2010 : 20:15:38
This is what happens when I post on CK with minimal sleep. I meant to say it was below Valjevo Castle. It has, of course, appeared in several places since. As to it's current location-- stay tuned. Rumor on the streets is that a dynamic duo is cooking up something. As to what, I can't say. It's all probably an Internet rumor anyways ;) |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 20 Dec 2010 : 13:20:46
Thanx Matt. Is this location based on some information from MotA (which I haven't read yet)? I can't find any such speculation online, lol. |
| Matt James |
Posted - 20 Dec 2010 : 13:10:35
There is some conflict in published lore but many people consider it to be below Castle Vathar.
Edit. I believe the pool is gone, or has moved. I'm late for an appointment right now and can't dig through my notes. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 20 Dec 2010 : 10:28:12
As an aside - does anyone have an exact (or pretty good) canon location for the Pool of Radiance? My interpretation is that it may be found in the Tortured Lands, or perhaps somewhere near Glumpen Swamp, or in the West Galena Mountains, possibly near the Falls of Ixce or Valley of the Falls. (Disregarding the suggested location in the PoR novel, meh.)
I found some excellent maps - Vaasa, Moonsea North |
| Dalor Darden |
Posted - 20 Dec 2010 : 08:00:00
Well, writing has officially started in earnest on The Ride Project. School is out... |
| Snowblood |
Posted - 05 Sep 2010 : 04:36:19
"The 4e Realms have a great deal of room now for 'new material', and THAT is where the designers and authors should focus their attentions, because THAT is where it is needed. Leave the past for the grognards. "
Well if that makes me a Grognard (what ever that is) I prefer curmudgeon)...then I'll wear that badge with pride.....Luddite!!! |
| Jakk |
Posted - 01 Sep 2010 : 17:26:38
 Thanks, Brian! That one piece is making it very difficult for me to continue to ignore DDI... |
| Brian R. James |
Posted - 31 Aug 2010 : 16:04:11
quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
By way of doing so: do we have a more exact location for the ruins of Yrlaancel/Ondathel/Myth Ondath? We know it was near the White Peaks (north of Whitehorn on the 3E FRCS map), but IIRC, that's all we know. Anybody know of anything more specific anywhere?
Myth Ondath's location is depicted on the map included with the Monument of the Ancients adventure in Dungeon 170. |
| Jakk |
Posted - 30 Aug 2010 : 22:06:38
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Well, without trying to be overly negative, I actually prefer the new group in charge NOT try to fill-in-the-blanks.
I've noticed a lot of lore-holes with newer canon about the past - I like it better when we can have these kinds of 'deep discussions' here at the keep.
The 4e Realms have a great deal of room now for 'new material', and THAT is where the designers and authors should focus their attentions, because THAT is where it is needed. Leave the past for the grognards.
I agree 100%... my apologies for not being clearer as to what I was referring to. I'm just saying that past-period lore already extant from Ed and others (in particular the Cormyr Lineage) should have its NDAs vacated so that Ed's hands aren't tied when those of us grognards who are trying to fill the holes in the past have questions. The simple fact is, Ed did an amazing job of making everything make sense, and while that might be a reason (in Wizbro's minds, anyway) for keeping his original vision of the Realms all bottled up, it doesn't do any favors for those of us who feel differently and plan on ignoring anything "New Coke" anyway. I love the idea of connecting the dots with the post-Spellplague Realms, but as I've said before, my Realms have taken a different path beyond the Year of Blue Fire, and I just want to know more about what was written and not published regarding the past. I could go on at length here about justifying the release of the older hidden lore, but I'd be repeating myself for the most part; I've already made my views known in various other scrolls around the Keep.
Anyway, this post has become way more bloated than intended, and it has nothing to do with the Ride in particular, so I'm going to shut up and let this scroll get back on topic.
By way of doing so: do we have a more exact location for the ruins of Yrlaancel/Ondathel/Myth Ondath? We know it was near the White Peaks (north of Whitehorn on the 3E FRCS map), but IIRC, that's all we know. Anybody know of anything more specific anywhere? |
| Markustay |
Posted - 30 Aug 2010 : 16:36:23
Well, without trying to be overly negative, I actually prefer the new group in charge NOT try to fill-in-the-blanks.
I've noticed a lot of lore-holes with newer canon about the past - I like it better when we can have these kinds of 'deep discussions' here at the keep.
The 4e Realms have a great deal of room now for 'new material', and THAT is where the designers and authors should focus their attentions, because THAT is where it is needed. Leave the past for the grognards. |
| Jakk |
Posted - 30 Aug 2010 : 00:06:31
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
The Shades left Toril just before the fall (IIRC), and then returned in time for 3e.
 Gotcha. I missed connecting the "they" with the original noun. I suspect lack of sleep had something to do with that; it seems clear enough now that I go back and re-read it.
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I'm not home, and I haven't been thinking about any of this the past week, but what I may do is listen to krash and try to bend canon (rather then break it) to make everything work.
For instance, just because the Pyramids appear to be connected to the fall of Netheril somehow, doesn't mean that the magic associated with them (if any), or some item (or power) contained within them didn't date from an earlier period.
Suppose... just suppose... that the Nether scrolls weren't the only Creator-race artifacts they found. The Terraseer didn't just steer them towards those - he spear-headed a complete exploration of 'The North' by the ancient Netherease (that part is canon).
What if the Netherease had an 'Warehouse 13' type-thing going? Like at the end of the 1st Indiana Jones movie - a place they stashed stuff that was either too powerful, or that they felt they needed to investigate further at some point in the future. Those are just the kinds of things that would NOT be mentioned in the normal histories of the Empire (but it could be something the Shades were privy to), which is our 'out' for creating them out of thin air.
There are ways to spin everything in such as way to bend the somewhat broken timeline around the lore, and artifacts do not have to necessarily date to the same time-period as the structures/locales they are placed in. Just look at the Nether scrolls for a canon example.
Agreed on that last point... and I like the "Warehouse 13" idea. I still think it should have been called "Warehouse 42" tho... because it's where all the answers are.
[Edit:] On a more serious note... we know that the Netherese did this; the Shades were reported as looking for something in the region of Araumycos (under southern Anauroch) in Underdark, and I would bet that there were multiple repositories; no sense in putting all the eggs in one basket. [/Edit]
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
BTW, that particular shape - pyramid/conical - is associated with 'energy accumulators' in folklore & theory; perhaps that would be a good place to start. You could even say one of the survivor states (of Netheril) re-built the ancient structures in their {futile} attempt to survive. Everything also keeps going back to the High Forest - the seat of power for that group of creators who wrote the Skins of the World Serpeant (sorry, not near sources and can't find their name on the Net). There are quite a lot of secrets buried there, and that could be why the Elves coveted the place.
The Sarrukh... and it's hinted in several products (I'm nowhere near my older sources either, but LEoF also suggests) that the Nether Scrolls (Golden Skins of the World Serpent) were authored not just by the Sarrukh, but also by the Aearee and Batrachi as well. And I agree with you on the High Forest being a focal point for this, what with the Star Mounts, the Lost Peaks, and (somewhere and somewhen) Myth Adofaer lost in time... although the last doesn't have anything to do with the Netherese, except as far as the fey'ri connection via Ascalhorn/Hellgate Keep... but maybe this is a deliberate thread of connection... although I suspect that (a) it's NDA, and (b) Ed wouldn't want to spill the beans even if it wasn't.
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Lots of ways to go with this - we just have to keep the 'big picture' in mind at all times. No sense fixing the lore in one spot and wind-up creating glitches elsewhere.
I agree... but with how much of the 'big picture' still remains hidden from us thanks to a lack of publication from Wizbro, it's pretty tough to keep things consistent with lore we don't have.  |
| Dalor Darden |
Posted - 29 Aug 2010 : 19:45:08
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Herne's Woods is a forest located in the Utter East, BTW, at the very northern edge of Zakhara and on the most south-western tip of Kara-Tur.
The Blood & Magic video game makes it appear that the region was named by the Northmen who settled Konigheim, but since the Northmen were in the company of Ffolk (Moonshaes), it appears that the pantheon established there is some sort of combination of the Faerunian one with bits of Ffolk (Fey?) lore and pieces of the Vedic pantheon from the Mar natives (who themselves were not indigenous).
Anyhow, since the Ffolk appear to have some connections to the Celtic panthoen (and Fey creatures), Herne as 'Master of the Wild Hunt' and 'The Horned God' works quite well for a bunch of disenfranchised Northmen. I can actually see them using him in Loki's place, although that could just be because I am picturing the Marvel Comics Loki (with the horns).
Don't forget that the Giant god Annam is called 'The all-Father'.
Giant mythology in general is very Norse, except for the Titans (although D&D titans are different then the Planescape Titans, thank goodness).
Try not to loose sight of the fact that the people of The Ride are related to the Netherease, and the Tunland barbarians.
Hmmmm... you may have just fixed a problem I was having, saying the people of Thaeravel were of Talfiric descent. Could the people of The Ride be a mixture of Talfiric (Toril's Celt-like people) and Gur? I have it where the Gur are Slavic-looking (and culturally similar - think cossacks) people, but they used the Finnish Pantheon.
If the Eraka are an admixture of Gur and Talfir humans, then that would make both pieces of lore work. One sedentary and mostly peaceful, and the other semi-nomadic and warlike... seems plausible. I really need to get home and start work on that racial migrations map.
You DO need to make that map.
Now, you are also dancing all around my thoughts on how to create the origins of the Eraka.
It will be grand! |
| Markustay |
Posted - 29 Aug 2010 : 18:51:45
Herne's Woods is a forest located in the Utter East, BTW, at the very northern edge of Zakhara and on the most south-western tip of Kara-Tur.
The Blood & Magic video game makes it appear that the region was named by the Northmen who settled Konigheim, but since the Northmen were in the company of Ffolk (Moonshaes), it appears that the pantheon established there is some sort of combination of the Faerunian one with bits of Ffolk (Fey?) lore and pieces of the Vedic pantheon from the Mar natives (who themselves were not indigenous).
Anyhow, since the Ffolk appear to have some connections to the Celtic panthoen (and Fey creatures), Herne as 'Master of the Wild Hunt' and 'The Horned God' works quite well for a bunch of disenfranchised Northmen. I can actually see them using him in Loki's place, although that could just be because I am picturing the Marvel Comics Loki (with the horns).
Don't forget that the Giant god Annam is called 'The all-Father'.
Giant mythology in general is very Norse, except for the Titans (although D&D titans are different then the Planescape Titans, thank goodness).
Try not to loose sight of the fact that the people of The Ride are related to the Netherease, and the Tunland barbarians.
Hmmmm... you may have just fixed a problem I was having, saying the people of Thaeravel were of Talfiric descent. Could the people of The Ride be a mixture of Talfiric (Toril's Celt-like people) and Gur? I have it where the Gur are Slavic-looking (and culturally similar - think cossacks) people, but they used the Finnish Pantheon.
If the Eraka are an admixture of Gur and Talfir humans, then that would make both pieces of lore work. One sedentary and mostly peaceful, and the other semi-nomadic and warlike... seems plausible. I really need to get home and start work on that racial migrations map.
|
| Dalor Darden |
Posted - 29 Aug 2010 : 06:52:10
I will hint that I've found the origins of the Eraka in a rather unlikely place having to do with a bit of lore concerning Malar's killing of Herne:
quote:
...The Beastlord did challenge and defeat Herne, a corrupted incarnation of the Master of the Hunt brought to the Realms by an ancient wave of immigrants along with Oghma and other powers...
It is going to tie in really nicely...I promise. |
| Dalor Darden |
Posted - 29 Aug 2010 : 06:27:23
The big picture is the easiest to look at; but the hardest to see.
I've narrowed down the origin of the Eraka...rather nicely and without a great deal of fuss.
The ONLY thing I really need to find out is when Malar killed Hern (sp?) and I will be able to go with an origin for the Eraka. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 28 Aug 2010 : 19:02:13
The Shades left Toril just before the fall (IIRC), and then returned in time for 3e.
I'm not home, and I haven't been thinking about any of this the past week, but what I may do is listen to krash and try to bend canon (rather then break it) to make everything work.
For instance, just because the Pyramids appear to be connected to the fall of Netheril somehow, doesn't mean that the magic associated with them (if any), or some item (or power) contained within them didn't date from an earlier period.
Suppose... just suppose... that the Nether scrolls weren't the only Creator-race artifacts they found. The Terraseer didn't just steer them towards those - he spear-headed a complete exploration of 'The North' by the ancient Netherease (that part is canon).
What if the Netherease had an 'Warehouse 13' type-thing going? Like at the end of the 1st Indiana Jones movie - a place they stashed stuff that was either too powerful, or that they felt they needed to investigate further at some point in the future. Those are just the kinds of things that would NOT be mentioned in the normal histories of the Empire (but it could be something the Shades were privy to), which is our 'out' for creating them out of thin air.
There are ways to spin everything in such as way to bend the somewhat broken timeline around the lore, and artifacts do not have to necessarily date to the same time-period as the structures/locales they are placed in. Just look at the Nether scrolls for a canon example.
BTW, that particular shape - pyramid/conical - is associated with 'energy accumulators' in folklore & theory; perhaps that would be a good place to start. You could even say one of the survivor states (of Netheril) re-built the ancient structures in their {futile} attempt to survive. Everything also keeps going back to the High Forest - the seat of power for that group of creators who wrote the Skins of the World Serpeant (sorry, not near sources and can't find their name on the Net). There are quite a lot of secrets buried there, and that could be why the Elves coveted the place.
Lots of ways to go with this - we just have to keep the 'big picture' in mind at all times. No sense fixing the lore in one spot and wind-up creating glitches elsewhere. |
| Jakk |
Posted - 28 Aug 2010 : 02:14:08
I'm just finding this scroll for the first time now, so bear with me for responding to some older posts...
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Which is why I had such a hard time fitting Hartsvale in to established lore - it isn't really located properly - if anything, it should have been in the center of that roundish-glacier above Anauroch.
By the looks of things, you could assume the high ice IS the glacier that formed around Iulutiu, Buuuuut... that glacier wasn't there during Netherease times, which is a BIG problem.
That's why I had to lean toward a rather convoluted, artificial-melting /warming magic scenario to explain the oddities. If the Netherease did melt the High Ice at some point, then Iulutiu should have been released, or uncovered at least (unless he was at the bottom of the sea.)
The Narrow Sea used to run north/south (in the 1e realms, as per Ed's Realms), but the Netherease box designer decided to do whatever he pleased and someone had to go-back and fix the inconsistencies (in LEotR IIRC, by saying the sea was moved by the Sarrukh in order to destroy the phaerimm). That could explain some of the weirdness - the upper portion of that sea may have been cut-off from the rest when it was shifted, and that is where Ulutiu lies and where the new (post-Netheril) Ice originated from. Not canon, mind-you - supposedly he is somewhere under Pelvuria (the great Glacier). It could just be 'the locals' (please don't ask me to spell those horrendous names!) are mis-remembering things handed down by their ancestors, and they are referring to the greater glacier that existed before Netheril rose and fell.
<snip>
Mark, I understand the difficulties with Hartsvale and Ulutiu... I've read the other scroll in which you comment on the inconsistencies, and it's part of why I'm redoing much of the timeline for my Realms and ignoring non-Ed canon where it clashes.
I've always explained the High Ice of Anauroch as being the result of the same lifedrain magic that created Anauroch... it's just the water of the Narrow Sea, and it rose and expanded the way it did thanks to properties of the lifedrain magic... either it amplified the crystallizing expansion of the freezing water, or it pulled water up from Underdark sources to add to the glacial mass. Further, the moisture sucked out of the growing desert had to go somewhere as well, so the growing glacial plateau can account for that as well.
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I've noted that many of FR's cartographers over the years, when doing historic maps, or even when doing the new 4e FR ones, FAIL to take into account any chages what-so-ever.
I am sure they are not privy to all the oodles of Realmslore we are, and are not giving much background for them, so they just follow the 'current' versions when they do theirs.
I'm not saying they are exactly like the modern FR maps, but the changes are not nearly as dramatic as they ought to be. I have found evidence that the Swordcoast itself has changed dramatically just in the last few centuries, and many lands and island chains were lost - none of which show up on any maps.
It is like the fact that the source material says the coastlines all changed in 4e, and yet the maps that accompany articles do NOT take that into account at all (and leave coastal cities still as coastal cities). Or the fact that the maps of ancient Imaskar fail to take into account any of the Desert of Desolation material. Some day I'll get around to doing an accurate Imaskari Empire map.
Anyhow, the Glacial shelf existed to the far north, and then Ulutiu (sp?) sank and a second glacier formed, and as it grew, it connected to the one to the north. Only problem is, the whole thing makes more sense if the Glacier above Anoroch was the one Ulutiu sank in, when you take into account the placement of Hartsvale. There is also the Reghed glacier above and to the east of ten Towns - both that one and the Anauroch one are anomalies, unless the Cold created by The Great Glacier altered the climate enough to bring the arctic circle lower. I can only assume that they were also both bodies of water that froze (which probably fits the canon of Netheril anyway).
I still think that the Great Glacier is Ulutiu's resting place, even though that would put the Narrow Sea between it and Hartsvale. I say this only because otherwise, we have two causes several millennia apart for the freezing of the Narrow Sea, one of them before the sarrukh cataclysm that caused the sea to change direction (just one of the things I want to eliminate in my historical rebuild of the Realms), and no explanation at all for the far more impressive (and therefore explanation-worthy) Great Glacier... not to mention its native inhabitants both human and dwarven.
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Toril is odd in that it has open water ABOVE the ice cap (the only incorrect thing about Karen Fonstad's maps). Along with the necklace Ulutiu wore, I would go out on a limb and say the elevation all along northern Faerun is quite high, in order to explain the oddly placed glaciers. Someone once figured that Toril had a smaller axial tilt then earth, which makes no sense to me - the lack of ice at the poles indicates a greater axial tilt, IMHO. The temperature along the equator is also milder - another good indicator.
Unfortunately, most of FR's more extreme geography has to be chalked-up to the ever-popular 'its magic' explanation.
I have no problem with that, as long as the "why" logic underlying the magical explanation makes sense. This is the major problem I have with the geographical changes wrought by the Spellplague... but that's another rant that I've already done to death, I think. What's your source for the unfrozen polar region?
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
The other problem comes in when you read the Thar source and some others regarding the Moonsea region - humans were there apparently long before the current wave of them were, and seem to have been wiped-out at least once, and then the area re-settled yet again.
We would also need to know what the Moonsea looked like before it was formed, supposedly by yet-another 'tear-fall'. I would guess that it, too, was part of the northern glacier at one point, and that the meteor (or whatever) vaporized much of the water and caused that region to de-freeze earlier then the rest. The Anauroch Glacier is a bit of problem in that regard as well - if it is indeed the frozen remains of Netheril's Narrow Sea, then why did it freeze? Netheril fell long after Ulutiu's necklace stopped 'doing its thing', so why did it get so cold? Were there Netherease magics to make the region artificially warm, that failed after the fall? Not a good explanation, really, when you consider they settled around the sea BEFORE they had magic (but the sea was moved, so that could be fudged as well).
As noted earlier, I blame the phaerimm lifedrain magic for the freezing of the Narrow Sea, and it makes sense that it would have caused a drop in temperature as well... whether the freezing caused the temperature drop, or vice versa, is dependent on facts that I don't have, or on DM (or Ed) ruling in the absence of said facts altogether. I suppose we could ask Ed, but I'm willing to bet that the answer is NDA.
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Hmmmm... The Netherease needed to divert the sea, but the north was too cold, so they built some sort of massive device/artifact that warmed the entire region for hundreds of miles around. They then diverted the sea, which worked out fine, until Karsus cast his spell, and the giant Faerun-warmer went on the fritz.
Didn't the Archwizards try to re-melt that sea? We also have the abnormal warming around Hotenow, and there is some indication of something similar happening in the east. Hmmmm... maybe the Netherese didn't create the warming devices... maybe it was something MUCH older...
Maybe the Pyramids of Ascore have something to do with that... I would think climate-changing magic would reguire something the size of a pyramid. Perhaps the Netherease merely learned how to turn them on and off... which could be what they were doing in the beginning when they returned to Toril.<snip>
The warming device is unnecessary prior to the return of Shade, if we take the position that the drop in temperature was a result of the phaerimm lifedrain magic.
Yes, the Shades tried to melt the High Ice; I haven't read the Return of the Archwizards, but in my Realms, they succeed in melting the High Ice, restoring the Narrow Sea, and (with more powerful magic) restoring the desert of Anauroch to arid scrub plains with a climate similar to that of the desert in the Okanagan/Okanogan valley of southern British Columbia and inland Washington and Oregon. It's one of the things that I like about the 4E Realms.
The Pyramids of Ascore aren't old enough. From what I've been able to glean from Ed via persistence and very carefully-worded questions (mostly of a yes-or-no nature whose answers don't give me any new information), the Pyramids only date back to the general era of the fall of Netheril, and there's some connection between the pyramids (13 in number) and the ring of 13 dire oaks that surround the black pyramid of Karse near the Dire Wood. The precise nature of the connection has the potential to drive me mad if I examine it, so I try not to do so. I suspect that the red stone from which they are made has some connection with the red stone that Karsus' corpse was transformed into when he died. What do you mean by "when they returned to Toril" in your last sentence there, Mark?  |
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