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Aewrik
Seeker
80 Posts |
 Posted - 15 Sep 2007 : 02:04:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
I'm not going to delude myself into thinking it's all a joke, Calrond.
By the way, I understand and agree that no one has to abide by these changes in their personal versions of the Realms (I'm keeping my own version of the Realms intact). But I certainly don't think these new changes are to encourage people to do that. What I suspect (this is my theory, mind, not fact), and so do some others, is that these changes are about attracting new players/fans to the setting over keeping the old ones. Of course WotC isn't deliberately trying to drive old fans away, but I think I know what the true priority is.
I truly hope they don't do this to promote Eberron or another setting.
http://www.candlekeep.com/library/rumors/rumor7.htm was written several years ago, but I think it might have foretold the future, somewhat.
The question then, is: If WotC (I can't imagine any of the writers promoting these events so far in advance) doesn't do this to gather new players, but to drop the Forgotten Realms from their... whatever it's called, what happens to the rights? Can they keep the rights for a system they no longer support, preventing anyone from using the FR logo? (which might lead to someone else to "revive" [the realms will never die! Never I say!] the realms and yielding profit, effectively smashing WotC in their faces when they've been proven wrong about FR. I personally think that Eberron will fail as soon players realize that there isn't much story to it (at least not anywhere near to the collected lore of Faerûn). I'd personally want to see WotC dropping forgotten realms, and that another company (Guardians of Order, perhaps?) which sees the value of game depth, rather than gameplay, picks it up and really makes the realms attractive to the public, again).
I've been really heavy at heart all day. :
After all, it may not be the realms I've grown to love after this most cataclysmic event, when all Faerûnian gods of magic (save perhaps Shar) are unable to influence the realms, anymore. |
Edited by - Aewrik on 15 Sep 2007 02:09:55 |
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Calrond
Learned Scribe
USA
118 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2007 : 02:05:39
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I assumed it was a way to bring in new fans by evening the playing field between experts and new players. But maybe we should look on the bright side of this: Now we have the opportunity to each continue on with our campaigns and storylines past 1385 DR without a player correcting us about canon. And yeah, that is the only bright side.
Other than the fact that those who don't want this change to take place get an open-ended Forgotten Realms campaign to do with what they want. (And what's the worst that could happen, an average DM screws the Realms up? Well there's the perfect segue to 4e.) |
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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2007 : 07:30:11
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| What I want to know is how the hell Ao allowed this to happen, since he is basically omnipotent when it comes to the gods. |
If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2007 : 07:32:24
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Even Overgods go on Holiday? 
I just thought of something, would the Shadoweave survive the destruction of the weave?
If thats so, then only Shadowcasters will keep their levels in 4e.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2007 : 07:40:13
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My opinion? Well, I thought I had been driven beyond the point of caring much, if at all, about WotC's handling of the Realms. In spite of that I find myself more and more angry. It has no effect on my Realms at all, but it is another nail in the coffin when it comes to how much newer Realms lore I will have use for.
In other words; I don't like this. |
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FurryFury
Acolyte
4 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2007 : 07:48:31
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The way they did spellplague was just stupid, IMO. For some time, I really thought it was just a joke.
I wonder if Tom Costa's right about the timeline jump. I wouldn't want ToT 2.0 with a 10-year jump but I guess I could tolerate it at least. But ToT 2.0 followed by 100-something years jump... That's too much for me :(
I'm afraid in the end, FR will lose much more than it will gain with all this changes. Someone in the Questions to FR designers thread at WotC forum asked "How much XP did you get for killing the Realms?" I still want to hope it won't happen, but so far, WotC has never failed to disappoint me :/ |
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Ayunken-vanzan
Senior Scribe
Germany
657 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2007 : 08:27:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Even Overgods go on Holiday?
I just thought of something, would the Shadoweave survive the destruction of the weave?
If thats so, then only Shadowcasters will keep their levels in 4e.
As Ed has pointed out, the shadowweave depends on the weave, and so it will be destroyed, too. Link. |
"What mattered our lives now? When our world had been torn from us? Folk wept, or drank, or stood staring out over the land, wondering what new horror each dawn would bring."
Elender Stormfall of Suzail
"Anyone can kill deities, cause plagues, or destroy organizations. It takes real skill to make them live on."
Varl
FR/D&D-Links • 2ed Downloads |
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Victor_ograygor
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1072 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2007 : 09:15:42
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After reading BlackMoria post I were speechless, now I fully understand that the future of Forgotten Realms as I loved, is on its way down the trash can.
- Ao (“ can’t ”) stop the goods as long as they reactions is true to their portfolio, that’s whey he doesn’t interfere when Cyric and Shar does their thing.
The future of the Forgotten realms XXXX, do we have the same guys creating the end of Dragon Lance working in Forgotten Realms now.
This really annoys me that they XXXX up´d the Realms like that!
Vic
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Victor Ograygor The Assassin and Candel keeps cellar master
Everything I need to know about life I learned from killing smart people.
Links related to Forgotten Realms
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=9571
Adventuring / Mercenary Companies / Orders / The chosen from official sources
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=11047
Priests in Forgotten Realms.
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=9609&whichpage=1 |
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Verghityax
Learned Scribe
131 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2007 : 09:16:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayunken-vanzan
As Ed has pointed out, the shadowweave depends on the weave, and so it will be destroyed, too.
So it doesn't make any sense then. Why would Shar help Cyric to slay Mystra knowing that it would destroy the Shadow Weave as well? |
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silverwizard
Seeker
Greece
76 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2007 : 10:03:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Victor_ograygor
After reading BlackMoria post I were speechless, now I fully understand that the future of Forgotten Realms as I loved, is on its way down the trash can.
- Ao (“ can’t ”) stop the goods as long as they reactions is true to their portfolio, that’s whey he doesn’t interfere when Cyric and Shar does their thing.
That, and I suspect there's an "Edition Change" clause in Ao's contract, or whatever it is that Overgods sign to get the job ("In Cayse There Bee A Newe Edytione, Ye Incredible Poweres Thou Wyeld Shall Be Re-Booted Agayne").
Regarding licensing, yes it is perfectly possible for a company to just withdraw support from a campaign, and this doesn't mean they'll be in any way obliged to pass the rights to anyone else (look at all these campaign settings gathering dust). I don't think WotC are gonna give up on the Realms, though. And certainly Eberron is not going to become the "standard" setting for D&D, as it's too far removed from the game's main theme, which (at least up till now... don't know what to expect anymore!) is classic heroic mediaeval fantasy.
As for complaining to WotC's costumer service, I don't know how effective that could be. What would really hurt would be a decrease in sales = less profit. I think that's the only way to really make them understand that we simply DO NOT APPROVE of what they did to the Realms.
It's too early yet to pass final judgement. In spite of that, however, all I hear about the "new" Realms makes me want to distance myself as much as possible from them. I was never a big fan of world-changing events. This isn't going to make me like them.
The bottomline is, I guess, that unless I'm somehow pleasantly surprised, my Realms will from now on follow a different branch in space-time that the Realms produced by WotC
Apologies if this sounded like a rant. |
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Na-Gang
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
348 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2007 : 10:32:22
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| I could see Elminster getting a promotion of sorts, or I could see Selune and Shar retaking the parts of themselves that they gave up to create Mystra in the first place becoming good and evil goddesses of magic, or I can see a realms without a deity of magic and Ao somehow intervening to let magic be self-regulating and Azuth and Velsharoon become patrons of magic users and necromancers respectively. |
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Sian
Senior Scribe
Denmark
596 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2007 : 10:47:07
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well ... about the dwarven killing of deities then Clangeddin would largely be able to consume Gorms portfolios, allmost without even trying that hard to get them, and Abbathor might be able to get a food in on Duergar is the battle doesn't happen at the same time as there's a major war between 'surface' dwarves (in lack of a better term for Shield and Gold dwarves together) and deep dwarves ... the Only loss i have problems guessing for a suitable follower is Haela ... there is no gods now in that pantheon that even farfetched go for the more chaotic fighting, such as battleragers and the like
With the dead of Mystra i have some problems seeing whom to take over ... Azuth is the natural choice but i don't think he have what's needed when all's said and done for some odd reason ... he's more into orginizing what another god have the control over ... only choice would in my opinion be elevating a mortal (Elminster probs) or that Thoth takes over the weave after some stuggle and take some new name (mysthoth ... sucky name convencion, i know) as a achknowlegded name and over time get some looser ties to the Mulhorandi pantheon like the ties that Hoar have at the moment... prehaps with the help of Isis who is to bounded to the Mulhorandi Pantheon but would like to have a finger in the game
with Helm it could 'easily' be explaned that he over the next 10 years drop to LE due to the faith that the Amnish Helmites have gets the upper hand which pulls Helm in that direction, gaining the Portforio for slavery, that'll make Tyr pissed and have him cut the tries opening the way for less and less subtle hated between them |
what happened to the queen? she's much more hysterical than usual
She's a women, it happens once a month |
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Saime
Acolyte
Denmark
21 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2007 : 12:03:52
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quote:
Originally posted by BlackMoria
Your thoughts?
Crap.
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3563 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2007 : 15:31:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Saime
quote:
Originally posted by BlackMoria
Your thoughts?
Crap.
 That sums it up well.
Perhaps we should all kick back, relax and enjoy a tall cold New Coke til this sorts out....
oh....errr I guess that didn't work out like they planned did it eh? |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2007 : 15:43:20
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quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
quote:
Originally posted by Saime
quote:
Originally posted by BlackMoria
Your thoughts?
Crap.
That sums it up well.
Perhaps we should all kick back, relax and enjoy a tall cold New Coke til this sorts out....
oh....errr I guess that didn't work out like they planned did it eh?
I think we are giving New Coke a bad rap with all of this. I think this is more along the lines of Crystal Pepsi. I think the new Realms need a Van Halen song for their marketing campaign. |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3563 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2007 : 15:49:55
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
quote:
Originally posted by Saime
quote:
Originally posted by BlackMoria
Your thoughts?
Crap.
That sums it up well.
Perhaps we should all kick back, relax and enjoy a tall cold New Coke til this sorts out....
oh....errr I guess that didn't work out like they planned did it eh?
I think we are giving New Coke a bad rap with all of this. I think this is more along the lines of Crystal Pepsi. I think the new Realms need a Van Halen song for their marketing campaign.
I did think of Crystal Pepsi as well, but wasn't sure if it was as well known by our worldwide scibes as well. It actually is a better analogy as it was a rework of Pepsi and New Coke actually was new.
As for a theme song by Van Halen
I'm thinking: Runnin' with the Devil |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Ergdusch
Master of Realmslore
Germany
1720 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2007 : 16:48:50
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quote:
Originally posted by SirUrza
With Azuth and Velsharoon out of commission, and Elminster in hiding, we can only assume that the Weave is "restored" or atleast magic is calmed by a new God of Magic. Either a Mystra 2.0 or Azuth or Velsharoon take the mantle.
How about Elminster himself taking up that vacant post! He, Sage of all Sages, lover of Mystra would be the perfect future god of hte Realms if anyone, the perfect avenger of Mystras destruction and my single light of Hope that loved the Realms as we know and love them still slumbers underneath all this §/$Z&"§Z.........  |
"Das Gras weht im Wind, wenn der Wind weht." |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3563 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2007 : 16:55:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Ergdusch
quote:
Originally posted by SirUrza
With Azuth and Velsharoon out of commission, and Elminster in hiding, we can only assume that the Weave is "restored" or atleast magic is calmed by a new God of Magic. Either a Mystra 2.0 or Azuth or Velsharoon take the mantle.
How about Elminster himself taking up that vacant post! He, Sage of all Sages, lover of Mystra would be the perfect future god of hte Realms if anyone, the perfect avenger of Mystras destruction and my single light of Hope that loved the Realms as we know and love them still slumbers underneath all this §/$Z&"§Z.........
That's how I see it playing out as well. I've always thought that Ed might want El not to be directly involved in all the small things day to day. Would be a good way to do that and fill the vacuum of Mystra. Would be interesting for the Chosen as well....especially The Withc Queen of Aglarond. Could she replace Azuth??? |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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freyar
Learned Scribe
Canada
220 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2007 : 17:16:52
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| This seems well beyond the ToT to me, as well, especially if you consider the prologue to Orc King. I guess I won't say much, as others have already said largely what I feel. I do feel like now there's an explanation for certain recent RSEs, like the "necessary" death of Khelben to create a City of Hope. That struck me as odd before when there was the Silver Marches and many great civilizations, but if you're planning to kill off much of that for no good reason... I'll just say that I don't mind an evolving Realms, since it's a living world, but this just seems like a huge change for the sake of change. I hope Ed & friends can save the Realms for us! |
My DnD Links and Creations |
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SirUrza
Master of Realmslore
USA
1283 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2007 : 18:18:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Calrond
Well, Ed has always said to change things in your own Realms campaign if you don't like them. This could be a way of encouraging that.
Except for those of us that like the novel line. This ultimately wrecks the novel line as well. Everything we know will change in the novels too, worse then the chnages from the ToT at that.
quote:
Originally posted by khorne
What I want to know is how the hell Ao allowed this to happen, since he is basically omnipotent when it comes to the gods.
I'm under the firm belief that the people making these decisions, like many of the 3E supplements, didn't do their research and as such don't even know who Ao is. :)
quote:
Originally posted by Ergdusch
How about Elminster himself taking up that vacant post!
I believe I said that, keep reading. :)
I also speculated a reborn Halaster. Personally I want to see Mystra back. No Mystra means no Chosen, means decline of the Sisters and that's poopy to me.
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"Evil prevails when good men fail to act."
The original and unapologetic Arilyn, Aribeth, Seoni Fanboy. |
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Ayunken-vanzan
Senior Scribe
Germany
657 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2007 : 18:28:04
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quote:
Originally posted by SirUrza
I'm under the firm belief that the people making these decisions, like many of the 3E supplements, didn't do their research and as such don't even know who Ao is. :)
This was mentioned elsewhere: if the gods act in accordance with their respective portfolios (like Cyric murdering Mystra, tricking Tyr to slay Helm), there is no need for Ao to intervene. |
"What mattered our lives now? When our world had been torn from us? Folk wept, or drank, or stood staring out over the land, wondering what new horror each dawn would bring."
Elender Stormfall of Suzail
"Anyone can kill deities, cause plagues, or destroy organizations. It takes real skill to make them live on."
Varl
FR/D&D-Links • 2ed Downloads |
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Wenin
Senior Scribe
585 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2007 : 18:44:05
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I don't feel it is in Tyr's portfolio to be tricked so soundly as to end up killing his right hand man.
These aren't mortals, they're gods. =( |
Session Reports posted at RPG Geek.
Stem the Tide Takes place in Mistledale.
Dark Curtains - Takes place in the Savage North, starting in Nesmé. I wrapped my campaign into the Hoard of the Dragon Queen, but it takes place in 1372 DR. |
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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2007 : 18:45:44
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Personally, I would like that they get rid of AO
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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2007 : 18:46:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Wenin
These aren't mortals, they're gods. =(
And Tyr was fooled by the god of dellusion ? What's the problem ? |
Edited by - Skeptic on 15 Sep 2007 18:46:46 |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4685 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2007 : 19:10:37
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3.5 dieties have
quote:
Immunities
Deities have the following immunities. Individual deities may have more immunities. Unless otherwise indicated, these immunities do not apply if the attacker is a deity of equal or higher rank.
Transmutation
A deity is immune to polymorphing, petrification, or any other attack that alters its form. Any shape-altering powers the deity might have work normally on itself.
Energy Drain, Ability Drain, Ability Damage
A deity is not subject to energy drain, ability drain, or ability damage.
Mind-Affecting Effects
A deity is immune to mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, phantasms, patterns, and morale effects).
A deity of delision can not delude ant deity.
Of course the rules are changing. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2007 : 19:15:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
quote:
Immunities
Deities have the following immunities. Individual deities may have more immunities. Unless otherwise indicated, these immunities do not apply if the attacker is a deity of equal or higher rank.
Cyric and Tyr are both greater deities. |
Edited by - Skeptic on 15 Sep 2007 19:15:23 |
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Wandering_mage
Senior Scribe
688 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2007 : 19:47:38
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| Frankly I am not surprised. After 4th edition was announced I knew there were going to be changes. I love my forgotten realms lore and cherish the history for the most part up until now. I think I might like the new Realms if only for a change in a setting I really like. It can only get better! This new status quo will need heroes. We can supply them. Plus I play in whatever Realms time period I feel like. It's good stuff. Choose what you want to incoporate and know that Sage Greenwood will make sure the Realms is done right. |
Illum
The Wandering Mage |
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silverwizard
Seeker
Greece
76 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2007 : 20:27:05
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| Do you really believe that change warrants higher quality? I kinda wish I shared your optimism. And yes, Sage Greenwood might be some consolation, but IIRC he no longer has control of the setting. Anyway, time will tell! |
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Asgetrion
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1564 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2007 : 20:29:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Skeptic
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
quote:
Immunities
Deities have the following immunities. Individual deities may have more immunities. Unless otherwise indicated, these immunities do not apply if the attacker is a deity of equal or higher rank.
Cyric and Tyr are both greater deities.
If this was *SUNE* they were fighting over... maybe then I would understand. Especially if Sune had used her powers to charm them and Cyric had then used this opportunity to cause friction between them. But fighting over a CHAOTIC tomboy goddess and claiming that Cyric's power was actually *enough* to fool Tyr into killing Helm, his servant and long-time ally? *WOW*, if it were that easy for the more ruthless deities to exert influence over their fellow gods and goddesses, I can't even imagine what Talos or Tempus could do with Tyr -- not to mention the demipowers and lesser or intermediate deities...
There is a reason why they did this (Tyr killing Helm) -- merging of similar portfolios. Tempus and Garagos will probably merge into 'Targus' (Empire of Netheril being around again and all) or one of them slays the other. Clanggedin will certainly assume the portfolios of Gorm and Haela.
All this is being done to 'simplify' things a bit, since 4E appears to be all about making things simpler. |
"What am I doing today? Ask me tomorrow - I can be sure of giving you the right answer then."
-- Askarran of Selgaunt, Master Sage, speaking to a curious merchant, Year of the Helm |
Edited by - Asgetrion on 15 Sep 2007 20:36:11 |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4685 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2007 : 20:50:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Skeptic
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
quote:
Immunities
Deities have the following immunities. Individual deities may have more immunities. Unless otherwise indicated, these immunities do not apply if the attacker is a deity of equal or higher rank.
Cyric and Tyr are both greater deities.
Divine raks run from 0 to 20, not counting those above 20. Greater Diety means their Dive Rank is 16 to 20. An upstart like Cyric should not have the same DR as Tyr, however F&P is not at my finger tips. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Time of Troubles 2.0 - Your opinion?
