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Warrax
Learned Scribe

Canada
128 Posts

Posted - 20 Sep 2007 :  22:50:33  Show Profile  Visit Warrax's Homepage  Click to see Warrax's MSN Messenger address Send Warrax a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One

Warrax, Ed and I have discussed the Wheel of Time several times in the past, and I believe Ed expressed himself poorly in the passage you quoted. I know from our discussions (and it's clear from the rest of his words, too) that he didn't think the SERIES was too long, but rather that several of the later books were in themselves (within their own covers) too long and confused in pacing: in other words, that within a given book Jordan was juggling too many characters, following too many subplots, and the result was confusing for many readers and less effective than a more straightforward yarn would have been (something Ed has a tendency to do, too, and therefore "looks for" and studies, in the writing of others).
There's no question that "doorstop"-thick fantasy novels in a single sequence have more publishing-industry impact than shorter books that simply share the same world setting (like most of the Realms fiction canon). I'm not saying that the collective sales of the one way are superior to the other, or that either way is preferable or "better." Every publisher (and to the extent that the publisher allows them, every writer) has to follow the way they believe best; some even try different ways and tinker for a bit.
Just trying to clarify; here, I think Ed "misspoke" himself enough to be misunderstood.
love,
THO




Hmm, funny; I prefer books to be in excess of 500 pages. I can even stomach a 1,000-page monstrosity if it paces itself properly. I think the "problem," so to speak, with Jordan's later books is as you note: too many characters, too many tangled sub-plots. I like to be engaged with a plot for a long time, I actually prefer the longer books quite a bit.

An interesting debate, no doubt.

I wonder though: Ed seems himself inclined rather heavily towards flashing readers glimpses of a host of different plots and tales himself... which makes my question then: Ed, if you feel that (to some extent), the WoT books got too long, do you think that he'd have been better off including certain plots as separate books?
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5043 Posts

Posted - 21 Sep 2007 :  01:22:29  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Hi, Warrax (and everyone: important stuff for all scribes' eyes at the end of this post). I sent your post to Ed, and here's his reply:



Well, “better off” of course “depends” (on whose viewpoint we’re speaking of). Every writer who has the freedom to do so should tell a story the way that works best for them, to yield the “best” story; perhaps if the Wheel of Time books had been written as shorter, focus-on-fewer-plots-and-characters books, they wouldn’t have “worked” at all for any of us (the writer, readers, and therefore sales/the publisher).
However, yes, if we go by my personal preferences, I’d prefer books that are more satisfying in themselves (come to resolutions or “halfway” resolutions that satisfy the reader, within one set of book covers).
Terry Pratchett’s Discworld books are examples of this: each tells a stand-alone story, but they revisit favourite characters, and each one advances the “history” of a rich shared fantasy setting.
However, such books don’t HAVE to be short. Julian May’s Pliocene Exile books are examples of long books that have huge casts of characters, adroitly handled. Or the as-yet-unfinished Sword of Shadows series by J.V. Jones (A CAVERN OF BLACK ICE and its sequels).
As with almost anything in fiction, Your Mileage May Vary.



So saith Ed. Who has read literally tens of thousands of novels, of all sorts. And written lots of them, too (the latest two: SWORDS OF DRAGONFIRE from Wizards of the Coast, and DARK WARRIOR RISING from Tor Books; next up are DARK LORD from Solaris/Black Library [distributed in North America by Simon & Schuster] and THE ANNOTATED ELMINSTER from Wizards of the Coast).
By the way, Ed has been talking extensively with folks at Wizards (remember, he WAS part of the “Secret Summit” some years back at GenCon, at which “something” was planned for the Realms that now seems to be happening, and that involves the Spellplague, so this “big change” is something he knew was coming [as was made clear to those who attended the “Secrets of the Forgotten Realms” seminar at GenCon]), and has just told me:



Yes, I WILL be involved with the next series of Realms products, just as I was with this plan for the future of the Realms. You can tell interested people (such as the scribes at Candlekeep) this; I’ve been told from the top that it’s okay if it becomes public knowledge. I still have no details to yield up, because I don’t know any - - and that’s the state of affairs right now not because of any sinister coverup, but simply because so much hasn’t been decided yet (I suspect matters have been delayed by the evolving 4e game rules, which of course must come first).
So smile, sword high, and onward! After every fire, there’s always another frying pan, and so on. That succession of burns and scalds is called “life.”
(There. More hilltop philosophy. Must run from this keyboard now; the Fed Ex guy is at the door with a box of books, and Jen’s calling me for dinner from the other direction. Wheeeee.)



So saith Ed (again). Interesting times, to be sure. Hang in there, scribes!
love to all,
THO

Edited by - The Hooded One on 21 Sep 2007 01:24:34
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Warrax
Learned Scribe

Canada
128 Posts

Posted - 21 Sep 2007 :  01:46:22  Show Profile  Visit Warrax's Homepage  Click to see Warrax's MSN Messenger address Send Warrax a Private Message
An interesting take; many thanks for your exceedingly quick reply. :D

EDIT:

Ed, I have a question for you that's completely unrelated to the Forgotten Realms, if that's OK?

When you were writing 'The Kingless Land,' did you spend much time developing Aglirta first or did you get a basic gist of everything and develop the setting as you progressed through the plot?

Incidentally, while the story (and the series) is great itself, I think the opening sequence of that book may be my favorite opening to any fantasy book.

OK, we need coin so that we can get in out of the cold and get some food in us before everyone tries to kill us for being outlaws, what do we do?

I know, I know! We steal a dress!

Great stuff, really. :D

Edited by - Warrax on 21 Sep 2007 04:38:49
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BlackMoria
Seeker

Canada
36 Posts

Posted - 21 Sep 2007 :  16:30:30  Show Profile  Visit BlackMoria's Homepage Send BlackMoria a Private Message
This may have been answered already and if so, could someone relate the answer?

Will we see more Border Kingdoms articles? It looked like the existing articles were highlighting the Border Kingdoms localities in alphabetical order and then they abruptly stopped at 'H'.

Thank you.
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31690 Posts

Posted - 21 Sep 2007 :  17:31:29  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by BlackMoria

This may have been answered already and if so, could someone relate the answer?

Will we see more Border Kingdoms articles? It looked like the existing articles were highlighting the Border Kingdoms localities in alphabetical order and then they abruptly stopped at 'H'.

Thank you.

Back in January, our Lady Hooded One revealed:-

"Ed tells me the delay is his fault.
Wizards still have Waterdeep News items by him, but have run out of both Realmslore and Border Kingdoms entries (assuming we've had all three High Mukshar instalments; I've not checked)
- - and he's been too blamed busy with [NDA and NDA, so assume still-secret WotC projects, as well as helping XXX with NDA] to get any more ready, yet.
Ed says this past year has been scheduling hell for him; 4 novels, 3 game products and assists with others, about 30 webcolumns, a dozen or so short stories, and lots of "incidental writing, editing, and critiquing." (And, of course, he does have a day job, chairs a library board, helped get a local mayor elected, speaks to school classes, at cons, and seniors' and literary groups, yadda yadda heaping yadda . . .)
So please be patient; Ed will get new lore to Wizards as soon as he can!
love,
THO"

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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage
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BlackMoria
Seeker

Canada
36 Posts

Posted - 21 Sep 2007 :  18:35:49  Show Profile  Visit BlackMoria's Homepage Send BlackMoria a Private Message
Thank you. Question answered.
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AlorinDawn
Learned Scribe

USA
312 Posts

Posted - 21 Sep 2007 :  20:04:08  Show Profile  Visit AlorinDawn's Homepage  Click to see AlorinDawn's MSN Messenger address Send AlorinDawn a Private Message
Ed & THO,

Forgive me if this is answered elsewhere. If it has been, I'm sure one of my fellow scribes will quickly point me in the right dircetions.

We hear plenty of elf/human romantic relationships, and orc and goblinoid/human relationships make an appearance rarely. I also remember a human/dwarf offspring in Dwarves Deep. Can you tell us how common other demi human (gnome and halflings in peticular)/human romantic relationships are, can their be offspring from these combinations and, are there any more or less descrimiations due to such relationships?

As I ask this, I can just see a big, burly northman and his wee halfling love walking hand in hand down a street in waterdeep as he lifts her over puddles and street debris lol.

Currently reading: Eyes of The Dragon by Stephen King

Long live Sniffy Wigglebottom

Edited by - AlorinDawn on 21 Sep 2007 20:06:26
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
14540 Posts

Posted - 21 Sep 2007 :  20:28:57  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message
You just made me think of something intersting -

Back in 2e, I had a Dwarf Mage. Note I didn't say 'Dwarven' Mage - he was just a human midget with a very good beard. However, he spoke Dwarven, was raised by Dwarves (in a circus), and passed for one easily. I had a VERY original character until 3e came out.

Anyhow, do other races have 'short people' (trying to be PC here) - in other words, people suffering from extreme genetic disorders that make them unusually tiny?

The above post made me think of a midget halfling, and how tiny he/she would be. If she dated a Northmen who was half-Firbolg, he could carry her around in his pocket.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 21 Sep 2007 20:30:29
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Thauramarth
Senior Scribe

United Kingdom
654 Posts

Posted - 21 Sep 2007 :  21:49:59  Show Profile Send Thauramarth a Private Message
Hi Ed,

A question inspired by the following quote from the Forgotten Realms Adventures hardback: "Prior to the Time of Troubles, the Red Wizards wielded greater magical power than they do now. This was due in part to a magical artifact operating within the depths of Amruthar that extended power to those pledged to the Red Wizards."

Can you tell the Candlekeep crowd something more about this artifact and the additional powers the Red Wizards had because of this artifact?

Thanks for the creating the Realms and letting it go for others to work with.

Club Secretary of the Dragons on the Hill RPG Club of London, UK: http://dragonsonthehill.co.uk/.
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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore

Canada
1273 Posts

Posted - 21 Sep 2007 :  23:38:52  Show Profile Send Skeptic a Private Message

Hi Hooded Lady, just thanks Ed for having accepted to do a major part of the new FRCS
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5043 Posts

Posted - 22 Sep 2007 :  02:21:08  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Hello, all. Skeptic, I relayed today's posts to Ed, and he sent back this:


Skeptic, you're very welcome.
As all Realms fans might expect, I will move heaven and earth if I have to, to get to work on the the "new" Realms.
I have always "half-planned" for the future of the Realms, continuously. By half-planned, I mean: establish trends (this is happening in Thay, that's befalling in Sembia) to set things in motion, see what actually happens (in play in my own campaign, on one level, and what various novelists, short story writers, and game designers publish in Wizards products on another level), and think about consequences, reactions to events, and how the ongoing trends will be changed or deflected.
This process has been part of how I shaped and "ran" the Realms from the beginning (yes, when it was just my own private fiction setting, and later when it was a D&D play setting, too; and yet again when it became a published setting). This is how the life blood of the Realms has always flowed.
Some years ago, in a secret "Realms summit" that I attended at a GenCon, some larger changes were discussed, argued over, and hammered out. Yes, I was a part of that; I have been NDA'd on this until now, and wasn't privy to some of the specific fragments thus far revealed (e.g. in THE ORC KING Prologue) until very recently. THAT'S why I kept pleading to scribes to "wait and see." (I agree it's certainly early enough to get excited, upset, or eager, but we can't see enough yet to really judge anything. Some scribes posting here and elsewhere have obviously seen more "teasers," hints, or leaks about the 4e game rules than I have.) When I said "This had BETTER be good!" I was repeating (more or less) one of the points I made at that summit: we risk much, and must Do It Right.
We are now beginning to see some of those larger changes, and as Rich Baker revealed on his blog and I let on in this thread, I will be on board the Good Ship Realms as we sail into the Spellplague.
I'm still urging everyone to wait and see. It's still the Realms you were playing in a month ago, before all of this news broke (look back and you may see THO hinting, just a bit, that SOMETHING was coming). I'm VERY proud of THE GRAND HISTORY OF THE REALMS (yes, I found and bought a copy), and the contributors all post here from time to time and are part of the Candlekeep community. We brought it to you with love, and I think that shows.
I think everyone who plays in the Realms, or works on the Realms, falls in love with it, at least a little. That's why so many of you have posted so emotionally; because you CARE.
Well, I care about the Realms, too. So, I know beyond any doubt, do the folks at Wizards I have worked with, on the Realms, and those I am working with now on the Realms. NDAs prevent me from giving any details about forthcoming products, but I will be a part of it all, and I firmly expect (as a gamer and customer; and, yes, I BUY a lot of stuff, just like anyone else does) to be pleased with Realms products in the future.
I'm going to try to keep on answering lore queries in this next week, but I am TEARINGLY busy right now (and looking forward to meeting some of the Australian-resident Candlekeep scribes in person, soon), so if I fall silent, please understand why.
In other news, a fan dropped by the library on my last work shift to show me a "Realms dress" she'd just sewn. It was stunning, but I doubt Wizards has any idle personnel to branch out into a gamer fashion line. Sigh; choice, choices.
Hang in there, folks! I have trusty sword in one hand and wild-as-ever spell in the other, and haven't lost my taste for riding into battle . . .



So saith Ed. That's my DM/old friend/hero figure.
love to all,
THO
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31690 Posts

Posted - 22 Sep 2007 :  02:44:24  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One

I'm going to try to keep on answering lore queries in this next week, but I am TEARINGLY busy right now (and looking forward to meeting some of the Australian-resident Candlekeep scribes in person, soon), so if I fall silent, please understand why.
And here's hoping that I can indeed make it to Queensland before then. My efforts to organise my calendar over the next week have met with somewhat positive results. Plus, I'll likely have my copy of Dark Warrior Rising [to read on the plane, of course] with me, so have your quill ready Ed!

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage
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Marquant Volker
Learned Scribe

Greece
273 Posts

Posted - 22 Sep 2007 :  05:47:57  Show Profile Send Marquant Volker a Private Message
Greetings Lady THO and Mr.Greenwood. I would like to thank you for your replies about the recent changes.

In addition i have a lore request if you dont mind. I would like to have some information about the recent status of the Rowanmantles the Cormyrian noble family.

I assume they lost some power with the deaths of Thomdor and Bereu, the destruction of Tilverton and more lately with the events of the Shadowdale adventure. If the above are true and the family is in crisis what actions would the house's leader have taken?

Thank you in advance

Edited by - Marquant Volker on 22 Sep 2007 06:47:19
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Bruce Donohue
Learned Scribe

Canada
129 Posts

Posted - 22 Sep 2007 :  14:33:32  Show Profile  Send Bruce Donohue a Yahoo! Message Send Bruce Donohue a Private Message
Does any have the link to Richard Baker's Blog site?
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Brian R. James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer

USA
1081 Posts

Posted - 22 Sep 2007 :  15:37:15  Show Profile  Visit Brian R. James's Homepage Send Brian R. James a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Bruce Donohue

Does any have the link to Richard Baker's Blog site?

Richard Baker's blog can be found here: http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?p=13420839#post13420839

Other Wizards blogs are listed here: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/community

Brian R. James - Freelance Game Designer

Follow me on Twitter @brianrjames, and please be sure to check out the RED AEGIS Roleplaying Game
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createvmind
Senior Scribe

490 Posts

Posted - 22 Sep 2007 :  18:17:14  Show Profile  Visit createvmind's Homepage Send createvmind a Private Message
Hello All,

Ed I assume the various creatures in faerun have unique smells, just as one here can clearly smell the difference between a dog and a fish, so with this train of thought I wonder if shapechangers like the Maluagrym, Rakshaha, Dragons and Dopplegangers and such have a unique smell that would possibly alert a being familiar with them to discern their true nature?

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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
14540 Posts

Posted - 22 Sep 2007 :  20:44:31  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message
Excellent question!

Now, I just want to go on record saying that if responding to us or any other fans will cut into his work-time for the new FRCS, I personally can live with his complete silence until next August.

The more single-minded he is on the project, the more I feel our chances of getting something truly spectacular out of all of this.

So lock your office door Ed.... don't worry about us... we'll be just fine.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 22 Sep 2007 20:45:00
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Warrax
Learned Scribe

Canada
128 Posts

Posted - 22 Sep 2007 :  23:37:21  Show Profile  Visit Warrax's Homepage  Click to see Warrax's MSN Messenger address Send Warrax a Private Message
Oh wow, that was a cool question, createvmind...
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Bruce Donohue
Learned Scribe

Canada
129 Posts

Posted - 23 Sep 2007 :  01:36:15  Show Profile  Send Bruce Donohue a Yahoo! Message Send Bruce Donohue a Private Message
Quote from Richard Baker's Web Blog: "Speaking of sunshine, here's a nice little ray of it I can share with everybody today: We've managed to book Ed Greenwood for 50,000 words of the new 4th Edition Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide. You might wonder why that would be something that even be remotely in question, but the fact is that Ed's a very busy guy with a number of other writing commitments (most notably for our own Forgotten Realms novels!) so it took some scheduling gymnastics on our part to make sure we could have him for a couple of months of writing time.

In light of that, our story team had a good meeting specifically about FR yesterday afternoon. We reviewed our original revision plans (they're almost two years old) and talked about where we are with the project, and we kicked around the question of how much "course correction" we want to make now that you fans have responded to some of the big reveals at the end of the Grand History. We're not pitching the plan and starting over (if that's what you were hoping for, sorry, ain't gonna happen), but we are definitely tweaking the plan to speak to some of the how-can-this-still-be-the-Realms! concerns that are out there. I like where we got to, and I think most of you will too."

Having seen this, looks like when you talk to the right people they listen. So let them know how you would handle it.

Mmm Hooded what is the 50,000 4th Edition Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide that Richard is referring to? Can you shed some light on that for us?
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30422 Posts

Posted - 23 Sep 2007 :  03:30:19  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message
An odd, and hopefully quick query to add to my ever-growing queue: Has Azoun IV any bastards that are some race other than human?

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader

USA
5402 Posts

Posted - 23 Sep 2007 :  03:40:15  Show Profile  Visit KnightErrantJR's Homepage Send KnightErrantJR a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

An odd, and hopefully quick query to add to my ever-growing queue: Has Azoun IV any bastards that are some race other than human?




Hm . . . I had never thought of that, and I'm surprised no one else has either . . . good question Wooly.

"Because philosophy arises from awe, a philosopher is bound in his way to be a lover of myths and poetic fables. Poets and philosophers are alike in being big with wonder."--Saint Thomas Aquinas

http://knighterrantjr.blogspot.com/

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createvmind
Senior Scribe

490 Posts

Posted - 23 Sep 2007 :  03:40:45  Show Profile  Visit createvmind's Homepage Send createvmind a Private Message
Thanks Warrax
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freyar
Learned Scribe

Canada
220 Posts

Posted - 23 Sep 2007 :  04:26:51  Show Profile  Visit freyar's Homepage Send freyar a Private Message
createvmind: I don't know so much about the others, but many dragon types have a "typical smell" included in their write-ups in the Monster Manual(s). (It varies by the variety.)

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Ayunken-vanzan
Senior Scribe

Germany
657 Posts

Posted - 23 Sep 2007 :  06:44:15  Show Profile  Visit Ayunken-vanzan's Homepage  Send Ayunken-vanzan an AOL message  Send Ayunken-vanzan an ICQ Message  Click to see Ayunken-vanzan's MSN Messenger address Send Ayunken-vanzan a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by freyar

createvmind: I don't know so much about the others, but many dragon types have a "typical smell" included in their write-ups in the Monster Manual(s). (It varies by the variety.)



Yes, but only in their original draconic form (e. g. gold dragons smells of saffron and incense), but I am sure that this is not the case when they assume human guise. Otherwise that would lead to interesting encounters if such a “human” meets others of his “kind”. (Axe effect, anyone? )

"What mattered our lives now? When our world had been torn from us? Folk wept, or drank, or stood staring out over the land, wondering what new horror each dawn would bring."
Elender Stormfall of Suzail

"Anyone can kill deities, cause plagues, or destroy organizations. It takes real skill to make them live on."
Varl

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freyar
Learned Scribe

Canada
220 Posts

Posted - 23 Sep 2007 :  22:51:43  Show Profile  Visit freyar's Homepage Send freyar a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Ayunken-vanzan
Yes, but only in their original draconic form (e. g. gold dragons smells of saffron and incense), but I am sure that this is not the case when they assume human guise. Otherwise that would lead to interesting encounters if such a “human” meets others of his “kind”. (Axe effect, anyone? )



Heehee. Not sure if this is in the MM or not, but there's a free adventure from WotC (Bad Moon Waning, I think, is the title) that claims werewolves can smell out other werewolves even in human form. I'd guess that maybe you could notice the dragon/other smell if you have the scent ability? Ok, ending the threadjack here... But a most serious question, do most the masquerading dragons know who each other are or not?

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