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Aravine
Senior Scribe
USA
608 Posts |
 Posted - 02 Nov 2007 : 16:25:21
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they say there may be one in the FRCS. is there any stats anywhere for it?
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The brave don't live forever,the cautious don't live at all |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 02 Nov 2007 : 16:52:14
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| Try the Dragons of Faerun, Part 1 Web Enhancement, it details all of the dragons of the Realms, living, dead, or undead. |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives
My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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Aravine
Senior Scribe
USA
608 Posts |
Posted - 02 Nov 2007 : 16:56:28
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I would, but my school has blocked the link   |
The brave don't live forever,the cautious don't live at all |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 02 Nov 2007 : 17:09:11
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| Would you like me to email you the file? PM with you email address if that would work for you. |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives
My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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turox
Learned Scribe
USA
145 Posts |
Posted - 02 Nov 2007 : 17:16:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Aravine
I would, but my school has blocked the link
My work used to do that, instead of www give shadow a try. So it should start out like shadow.wizards.com |
Turox Antas Dragonslayer -
"People will believe anything they want to believe, or fear to believe."
Wizard's First Rule: Chapter 36, Page #397, US Hard Cover (revealed by Zeddicus Zu'l Zorander).
Explanation by Zeddicus Zu'l Zorander: "People are stupid; given proper motivation, almost anyone will believe almost anything. Because people are stupid, they will believe a lie because they want to believe it's true, or because they are afraid it might be true. People’s heads are full of knowledge, facts, and beliefs, and most of it is false, yet they think it all true. People are stupid; they can only rarely tell the difference between a lie and the truth, and yet they are confident they can, and so are all the easier to fool."
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 02 Nov 2007 : 17:38:58
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All I know is that the "Purple" Dragon was actually a Black Dragon...
Anyone care to explain that one to me? |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 02 Nov 2007 : 17:42:31
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quote:
Originally posted by dalor_darden
All I know is that the "Purple" Dragon was actually a Black Dragon...
Anyone care to explain that one to me?
His scales became a purplish color because he was so very, very old. |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives
My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 02 Nov 2007 : 21:57:39
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quote:
Originally posted by HawkinstheDM
quote:
Originally posted by dalor_darden
All I know is that the "Purple" Dragon was actually a Black Dragon...
Anyone care to explain that one to me?
His scales became a purplish color because he was so very, very old.
So essentially a Lawful Good Kingdom (for the most part I'm guessing) took as its heraldic symbol an evil dragon?
Interesting... |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 02 Nov 2007 : 22:11:05
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quote:
Originally posted by dalor_darden
quote:
Originally posted by HawkinstheDM
quote:
Originally posted by dalor_darden
All I know is that the "Purple" Dragon was actually a Black Dragon...
Anyone care to explain that one to me?
His scales became a purplish color because he was so very, very old.
So essentially a Lawful Good Kingdom (for the most part I'm guessing) took as its heraldic symbol an evil dragon?
Interesting...
Not only is it a powerful symbol, but all the lands of Cormyr used to be the domain of Thauglor. So Cormyr was once, literally, ruled by the Purple Dragon. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Garen Thal
Master of Realmslore
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 02 Nov 2007 : 23:31:10
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The Purple Dragon actually had no direct association with the Obarskyr family until Duar (then prince) and his friends had an adventuring band by that name. They adopted the name thanks to the legends of Thauglor--who none of the royal family ever knew was a black dragon--and Duar only took the name for the army from the Dragons in memory of his loyal companions.
It is common for noble families to adopt as their arms beasts that they have slain (or family legend claims that they slew). Thauglor was slain by Azoun II in 1018, giving his descendants every right to embrace the charge on their shields. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 02 Nov 2007 : 23:34:57
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In ancient times, the Purple Dragon ruled what would become Cormyr. To the people of Cormyr, Thauglorimorgorus is a symbol of legitimate rule, a mantle passed to the elves when their champion defeated him, and thence to the Obarskyrs.
It's all in Cormyr: A Novel, essential reading if you want to know what this kingdom is about.
I would say that the people of Cormyr do [willingly] 'confuse' Azoun with the long-ago Purple Dragon.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6646 Posts |
Posted - 03 Nov 2007 : 00:43:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Garen Thal
The Purple Dragon actually had no direct association with the Obarskyr family until Duar (then prince) and his friends had an adventuring band by that name. They adopted the name thanks to the legends of Thauglor--who none of the royal family ever knew was a black dragon--and Duar only took the name for the army from the Dragons in memory of his loyal companions.
It is common for noble families to adopt as their arms beasts that they have slain (or family legend claims that they slew). Thauglor was slain by Azoun II in 1018, giving his descendants every right to embrace the charge on their shields.
Anf following on from Garen's as always cogent comment, this comes from Ed after I queried him about what banner Azoun would have ridden under for my "Valashar" piece in GhotR. Enjoy.
The earliest collective symbol of Cormyr was a shield
or banner field of light blue (the sky), with the
bottom third of the shield green with a scalloped top
edge (trees), and sticking up vertically from the
center of the trees, "halfway up" the sky, a single
gray castle keep tower (featureless [no windows,
stonework "joint lines," or anything of the sort],
tapering slightly towards the top, and crowned by
simple crenelated battlements (a "flat crown" of four
teeth: two simple merlons in the middle and two
flaring ones on the outsides).
This blazon was known as "the Pride of the Realm" and
signified the foundation of the human realm of Cormyr,
in a wild green forest. As such, it was considered
defiant to elves, and later insulting to elves. (Hence
its ready replacement by the Purple Dragon.)
Prince Azoun would personally have used the banner of
the Obarskyrs: a green field ("middling green,"
representing verdant farm fields or grass, not the
dark green of trees), upon which is displayed a circle
of gold chain, surmounted by a gold five-spired crown
(central spike is the tallest, outside ones next
tallest, those between shorter). The crown is depicted
side-on, and the circle as if it was pinned in shape
on a green tabletop that had been turned vertical to
the viewer [so it forms a perfectly circular "O"
shape].
-- George Krashos
P.S This was another of my GHotR "easter eggs" that seemingly no-one picked up on.
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
Edited by - George Krashos on 03 Nov 2007 00:44:20 |
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Garen Thal
Master of Realmslore
USA
1105 Posts |
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Ergdusch
Master of Realmslore
Germany
1720 Posts |
Posted - 03 Nov 2007 : 08:43:26
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Statistics:
Thauglorimorgorus, also called "The Black Doom," "Thauglor the Mighty," "The Purple Dragon"; Dead; Male, ancient, black Dragon; Laired in the Storm Horns; Defeated by Iliphar Nelnueve, and later slain by King Azoun I; Sources: Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting p. 113, Cormyr: A Novel
For any other dragons from Corymr you might want to check the Dragon Roll Call or see my thread for anything on Cormyr - Looking for all about Cormyr.
Edit note: fixed the links
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"Das Gras weht im Wind, wenn der Wind weht." |
Edited by - Ergdusch on 03 Nov 2007 08:44:07 |
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Ergdusch
Master of Realmslore
Germany
1720 Posts |
Posted - 03 Nov 2007 : 09:14:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Garen Thal
Thauglor was slain by Azoun II in 1018, giving his descendants every right to embrace the charge on their shields.
Mmh, the Dragon Roll Call sais he was slain by Azoun I. However the GHotR, p. 115 supports you! I believe the Roll Call is wrong than.... |
"Das Gras weht im Wind, wenn der Wind weht." |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 05 Nov 2007 : 01:40:47
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| I agree with the Sage that reading the Cormyr novel is essential (and fun!) for learning the basic background on the Forest Kingdom. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Aravine
Senior Scribe
USA
608 Posts |
Posted - 05 Nov 2007 : 13:19:07
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quote:
Originally posted by turox
quote:
Originally posted by Aravine
I would, but my school has blocked the link
My work used to do that, instead of www give shadow a try. So it should start out like shadow.wizards.com
No dice. thanks, though. |
The brave don't live forever,the cautious don't live at all |
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crazedventurers
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1073 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2007 : 15:20:50
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Anf following on from Garen's as always cogent comment, this comes from Ed after I queried him about what banner Azoun would have ridden under for my "Valashar" piece in GhotR. Enjoy.
The earliest collective symbol of Cormyr was a shield
or banner field of light blue (the sky), with the......
Thanks George a very useful post for my Cormyr game
Cheers
Damian |
So saith Ed. I've never said he was sane, have I?
Gods, all this writing and he's running a constant fantasy version of Coronation Street in his head, too. .
shudder,
love to all,
THO
Candlekeep Forum 7 May 2005 |
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Dragon Cultist
Acolyte
28 Posts |
Posted - 10 May 2008 : 21:26:23
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quote:
Originally posted by HawkinstheDM
His scales became a purplish color because he was so very, very old.
I prefer the claim of "the old Cormyrian forester" quoted in the FRCS, page 115. Thus spake the greybeard:
"The purple comes from elven magic that entered the blood of dragons here long ago [...] It lets the creature take man-shape and do other great and terrible things besides."
I acknowledge that I'm being selectively literal here. Occam's razor would suggest that natural discoloration is more likely. However, as a DM I prefer to look for that which inspires adventure the most...
Now, the 'taking of man-shape' bit doesn't signify anything mysterious above standard Monster Manual fare. The red, gold and silver dragons can all polymorph to human(oid) shape. Just to name a few off the top of my head. |
"And naught will be left save shattered thrones with no rulers.
But the dead dragons shall rule the world entire..." |
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Runis Silverhammer
Acolyte
United Kingdom
8 Posts |
Posted - 11 May 2008 : 13:00:22
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| So what would a purple one attack you with as a breath weapon? Acid? Fire? Frost? Poison? :S I think i'll stick to the taverns and not venture out if these things are out there! :S |
"Gygax:The new D&D is too rule intensive. It's relegated the Dungeon Master to being an entertainer rather than master of the game. It's done away with the archetypes, focused on nothing but combat and character power, lost the group cooperative aspect, bastardized the class-based system, and resembles a comic-book superheroes game more than a fantasy RPG where a player can play any alignment desired, not just lawful good. Now, should I tell you what I really think [of it]?" |
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fw190a8
Acolyte
United Kingdom
32 Posts |
Posted - 11 May 2008 : 17:44:08
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Thauglor had an acid breath weapon, but as stated earlier in the thread, he was a black dragon, not a "purple dragon," so if there is such a thing, I have no idea what it might breathe. The line taken in Cormyr: A Novel is that he was an extremely old black dragon whose scales had faded, so it's a bit like blackcurrants: the berries are pretty much black, but the juice is purple!
It was Azoun II who slew Thauglor, by driving his sword into the dragon's eye then his brain (Cormyr: A Novel, chapter 22).
Occam's razor of which Dragon Cultist speaks is detailed at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occams_Razor for those interested. More on Thauglor at http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Thauglor (contains spoilers for Cormyr: A Novel). |
Contributor to the Forgotten Realms Wiki: http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com |
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Ayunken-vanzan
Senior Scribe
Germany
657 Posts |
Posted - 12 May 2008 : 21:04:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Dragon Cultist
Now, the 'taking of man-shape' bit doesn't signify anything mysterious above standard Monster Manual fare. The red, gold and silver dragons can all polymorph to human(oid) shape. Just to name a few off the top of my head.
Sorry, reds cannot polymorph into human shape, and normally they wouldn't do it if they could because of their pride. There are red dragons which learned to adopt human shape (Tchazzar, for example), but they are exceptions.
As a rule of thumb: Evil dragons do not have the ability to polymorph, only good ones have.
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"What mattered our lives now? When our world had been torn from us? Folk wept, or drank, or stood staring out over the land, wondering what new horror each dawn would bring."
Elender Stormfall of Suzail
"Anyone can kill deities, cause plagues, or destroy organizations. It takes real skill to make them live on."
Varl
FR/D&D-Links • 2ed Downloads |
Edited by - Ayunken-vanzan on 12 May 2008 21:06:46 |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 12 May 2008 : 23:35:23
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| The red dragon in BG2 (Firkraag) uses the polymorph spell to lure the PC into his trap. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Dragon Cultist
Acolyte
28 Posts |
Posted - 19 May 2008 : 12:06:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayunken-vanzan
Sorry, reds cannot polymorph into human shape, and normally they wouldn't do it if they could because of their pride. There are red dragons which learned to adopt human shape (Tchazzar, for example), but they are exceptions.
As a rule of thumb: Evil dragons do not have the ability to polymorph, only good ones have.
I stand corrected! Quite a slip of me, guess my mind must have been on a spring holiday. I looked it up and of the evil dragons, only the deep dragon and a number of linnorms (corpse tearer & some others) can readily take humanoid shape. |
"And naught will be left save shattered thrones with no rulers.
But the dead dragons shall rule the world entire..." |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 19 May 2008 : 15:42:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayunken-vanzan
quote:
Originally posted by Dragon Cultist
Now, the 'taking of man-shape' bit doesn't signify anything mysterious above standard Monster Manual fare. The red, gold and silver dragons can all polymorph to human(oid) shape. Just to name a few off the top of my head.
Sorry, reds cannot polymorph into human shape, and normally they wouldn't do it if they could because of their pride. There are red dragons which learned to adopt human shape (Tchazzar, for example), but they are exceptions.
As a rule of thumb: Evil dragons do not have the ability to polymorph, only good ones have.
Not that it's particularly relevant, but I created a red dragon for one of my short stories who could assume human form--but that was by use of a magic item, and not an inherent ability. That dragon is statted up in Dragons of Faerun.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Tyranthraxus
Senior Scribe
Netherlands
423 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2008 : 05:47:53
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This thread has been very useful for me, as the PC's in my campaign are in Cormyr (and playing through Cormyr - Tearing of the Weave).
This reply made me think of something...
quote:
Originally posted by Dragon Cultist
quote:
Originally posted by HawkinstheDM
His scales became a purplish color because he was so very, very old.
I prefer the claim of "the old Cormyrian forester" quoted in the FRCS, page 115. Thus spake the greybeard:
"The purple comes from elven magic that entered the blood of dragons here long ago [...] It lets the creature take man-shape and do other great and terrible things besides."
I acknowledge that I'm being selectively literal here. Occam's razor would suggest that natural discoloration is more likely. However, as a DM I prefer to look for that which inspires adventure the most...
Now, the 'taking of man-shape' bit doesn't signify anything mysterious above standard Monster Manual fare. The red, gold and silver dragons can all polymorph to human(oid) shape. Just to name a few off the top of my head.
I have a theory, could it be that Vangerdahast is the new Purple Dragon? I'm just guessing because I don't know what happened between the Cormyr saga and the 3E FRCS only that the old snoop was turned into a dragon or something to protect the land. |
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Zireael
Master of Realmslore
Poland
1190 Posts |
Posted - 26 Dec 2010 : 13:50:56
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Two questions:
1) Anyone seen stats for Thauglor anywhere?
2) Is Mistinarperadnacles (his second at the Feint of Honor) the same as Mistinarperadnacles Hai Draco from Alias trilogy? |
SiNafay Vrinn, the daughter of Lloth, from Ched Nasad!
http://zireael07.wordpress.com/ |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7969 Posts |
Posted - 26 Dec 2010 : 14:21:14
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| Mistinarperadnacles is a common name throughout Cormyr; half of Azoun's sons are named Mistinarperadnacles, and the other half can be heard shouting "Mistinarperadnacles is my middle name!" in moments of heated bravado. Common folk often name their firstborn children Mistinarperadnacles, assigning simple numeric designators to differentiate between them when necessary. |
[/Ayrik] |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6646 Posts |
Posted - 26 Dec 2010 : 15:54:18
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Or Arik could be obliquely telling you that the two dragons are one and the same.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 26 Dec 2010 : 15:57:46
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Zireael, Thauglor's stats have never been published in canon Realmslore.
Why? Well, for his generation, a dragon never tells. 
love,
THO
P.S. Or to put it slightly more seriously: who among mortal chroniclers of Faerun would have been able to observe him closely enough to even guess at correct stats?
Yes, that's right: no one. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 26 Dec 2010 : 16:01:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Zireael
Two questions:
1) Anyone seen stats for Thauglor anywhere?
2) Is Mistinarperadnacles (his second at the Feint of Honor) the same as Mistinarperadnacles Hai Draco from Alias trilogy?
Don't recall seeing stats for Thauglor... But Cormyr was co-authored by Jeff Grubb, who co-authored all the books Mist appeared in -- so it's likely the same dragon. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Purple Dragon
