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Ulicus
Acolyte
United Kingdom
18 Posts |
 Posted - 20 Aug 2007 : 01:16:55
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quote:
It was felt that the transition from 2E to 3E Realms was handled poorly, in that no in world explanation was given to justify the changes to the setting. The Retcon (retroactive continuity) philosophy of 3E "These changes have always been that way" is going away for 4E. A in-game explanation, ala the Time of Troubles is going to be introduced and it will be known as the Spellplague. Halaster's death in the recent Undermountain product lays the groundwork for this future calamity. There will not be a novel series to explain the Spellplague.
Hmmm.... *scratches chin*
So, lorewise, will things appear to the folk of the Realms to have shifted from 2nd Ed to 4th Ed (since the change to 3rd Ed was never described in-game)?
Ah. Whatever. I am very much looking forward to this.  |
"Bane" = "Xvim" = Cyric, Prince of Lies |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2007 : 01:19:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Jumping 10 years is going to have an interesting effect on novels... After all, some of the current major characters won't be nearly as spry in 10 years, and will thus be less suitable for adventuring. I'm wondering if this means we'll never see Erevis Cale, for example, in another starring role, or what's going to happen with Drizzt's companions...
But Wooly, Erevis Cale is no longer human. ;) He claims in the books that he might well live for thousands of years.
Still, your main point is on target.
My bad. I fell behind on reading the novels a few years ago, and I've not yet caught back up. Not to mention the fact that I've now got to replace most of the novels. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2007 : 01:34:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
My bad. I fell behind on reading the novels a few years ago, and I've not yet caught back up. Not to mention the fact that I've now got to replace most of the novels.
The Erevis Cale books are awesome--I highly recommend them to you. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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MerrikCale
Senior Scribe
USA
947 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2007 : 02:45:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Skeptic
quote:
Originally posted by Brian R. James
The regional feat concept is being dropped. The new trend for 4E and by extension the 4E FRCS, is to downplay statistical modifiers and rules to describe a characters cultural background or even subrace. Yes, that means gold dwarves and shield dwarves will have the same racial mods, just as all humans are the same regardless of region.
Since the follow up product to the FRCS is a player's guide of sorts, I suspect the FRCS will have little or no prestige class (which remain in 4E btw). Feats, Traits, Prestige Classes, Spells and the like will most likely be in the Player's Guide, thus leaving more page count for geography and Realmslore in the FRCS.
It was felt that the transition from 2E to 3E Realms was handled poorly, in that no in world explanation was given to justify the changes to the setting. The Retcon (retroactive continuity) philosophy of 3E "These changes have always been that way" is going away for 4E. A in-game explanation, ala the Time of Troubles is going to be introduced and it will be known as the Spellplague. Halaster's death in the recent Undermountain product lays the groundwork for this future calamity. There will not be a novel series to explain the Spellplague.
While the new FRCS will remain focused on Faerūn proper (sorry Beyond Faerūn fans), it was mentioned that areas that have previously received little coverage will be expanded upon. Of course we'll get a shiny new poster map as well.
Overall I like it ! Thanks Brian !
I agree |
When hinges creak in doorless chambers and strange and frightening sounds echo through the halls, whenever candlelights flicker where the air is deathly still, that is the time when ghosts are present, practicing their terror with ghoulish delight. |
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ShepherdGunn
Seeker
USA
89 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2007 : 14:23:22
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I'm still a bit wary of a ten year jump in continuity. Seems reminiscent of what WotC did to the Legend of the Five Rings storyline when they got it, and that idea bombed, and bombed hard. I hope they execute this with a bit more style and grace.
Wonder if the Spellplague is going to be a "Let's kill all the Major NPCs" set up? I mean, they just wacked Halaster and Khelben, Elminster's missing, the Seven Sisters are apparently scattered and Shar is making a huge push to take over magic. Looks to me that at the end of the 10 year jump we may not have El, or any of the "big guns" left in the Realms. I'm not sure, just looks like that's how it's heading.
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"Man does not live by bread alone, likewise, blades and arrows aren't the only things that can kill him." |
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PaulSKemp
Forgotten Realms Author
808 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2007 : 14:39:55
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Not to mention, this might come out in time to spoil the Twilight War books, and will come out before the end of the Haunted Lands Trilogy . . .
KEjr,
No worries on that score. I've known (and I'm almost certain Richard has known) about the 4E plans for over a year and half. I've read a decent chunk of an early draft of the 4E FRCS so all of those things informed how I wrote the Twilight War. The release schedules are designed to avoid spoilers, too.
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Edited by - PaulSKemp on 20 Aug 2007 19:17:13 |
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MerrikCale
Senior Scribe
USA
947 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2007 : 16:29:58
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quote:
Originally posted by PaulSKemp
No worries on that score. I've known (and I'm almost certain Richard has known) about the timeline plans for over a year and half. I've read a decent chunk of an early draft of the 4E FRCS so all of those things informed how I wrote the Twilight War. The release schedules are designed to avoid spoilers, too.
and you didn't tell us?!
Seriously though, it seems the new FRCS will focus a lot of the Spellplague and little on spoiling the current trilogies, I would think. |
When hinges creak in doorless chambers and strange and frightening sounds echo through the halls, whenever candlelights flicker where the air is deathly still, that is the time when ghosts are present, practicing their terror with ghoulish delight. |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2007 : 21:36:42
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quote:
Originally posted by PaulSKemp
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Not to mention, this might come out in time to spoil the Twilight War books, and will come out before the end of the Haunted Lands Trilogy . . .
KEjr,
No worries on that score. I've known (and I'm almost certain Richard has known) about the 4E plans for over a year and half. I've read a decent chunk of an early draft of the 4E FRCS so all of those things informed how I wrote the Twilight War. The release schedules are designed to avoid spoilers, too.
Thanks Paul, that is good to know. |
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initiate
Learned Scribe
Canada
102 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2007 : 23:53:03
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Shepherd Gun Wrote:
Wonder if the Spellplague is going to be a "Let's kill all the Major NPCs" set up? I mean, they just wacked Halaster and Khelben, Elminster's missing, the
Seven Sisters are apparently scattered and Shar is making a huge push to take over magic. Looks to me that at the end of the 10 year jump we may not have
El, or any of the "big guns" left in the Realms. I'm not sure, just looks like that's how it's heading.
To make use of a Faerunism: By all the watching gods, I hope 'tis not so!
Re: Brian R James's post:
I agree with Skeptic and others: Overall it sounds not bad. Still leery, but I like what I hear for the most part. I kind of liked the regional system, as it gave statistical weight to the decision, and the subrace differences likewise. Then again, I like that this will now be purely an issue of character background and development, which should prevent conversations like: "I think I'll be a sun elf." "Ah, doing the aristocratic elf thing, are you? Remember, just because they're generally a bit aloof doesn't mean you have to look down on the rest of the party." "Say who? I just want the +2 intel."
I love the idea of focusing on geography and Realmslore in the FRCS, and leaving the important, but space consuming PRCs, feats etc for a crunch book. Its a great idea, and I think it'll come off really well.
I prefer the in game explanation to a retcon. Curious to see how it works out.
Also, as KEJR said, nice to know that the FRCs won't be spoiling the excellent Twilight War. Wonder if Shadowrealm is still on track for next May; this was the date announced in the series adverts in the latest crop of WotC novels, and would place the book a safe three months before the campaign setting.
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Amnezjusz
Acolyte
Poland
39 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2007 : 00:09:31
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Originally posted in other topic by George Krashos
Q. Is there anything happening to Mystra or the Weave?
A. The 2E to 3E change was one done on a retconning basis (i.e. "it was always like that") - they've decided that the 3E to 4E change wll be more in line with th 1E to 2E change. An in-game story/explanation will showcase the rule changes. As to what this explanation will be, it will be a catastrophe called the "Spellplague". It was noted that 'Expedition to Undermountain' and what happened to Halaster was a foreshadowing of this event - Halaster was trying to do something about it, but failed - badly. It was also noted that something akin to this "catastrophe" had happened before and had been mentioned in the 1E FR boxed set.
Can you tell me/us where exactly we can find information about this (on which page, if you don't mind)?
Thanks :) |
THERE'S NO JUSTICE. THERE'S JUST ME. - Death
http://www.polarzepy.fora.pl - My website.
http://www.dnd.polter.pl - Official Polish D&D site. |
Edited by - Amnezjusz on 22 Aug 2007 00:11:42 |
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Ulicus
Acolyte
United Kingdom
18 Posts |
Posted - 29 Aug 2007 : 10:36:25
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quote:
Wonder if the Spellplague is going to be a "Let's kill all the Major NPCs" set up? I mean, they just wacked Halaster and Khelben, Elminster's missing, the Seven Sisters are apparently scattered and Shar is making a huge push to take over magic. Looks to me that at the end of the 10 year jump we may not have El, or any of the "big guns" left in the Realms. I'm not sure, just looks like that's how it's heading.
I think it's more likely to be a case of: "Let's depower some of the major NPCs", removing the special "Chosen of Mystra" benefits and making them less "demi-godish" or somesuch.
Whether for better or worse, it'd be quite easily done.
Spellplague's happening, Mystra needs to reclaim the divine power that's been seeded throughout her Chosen - yada yada - she sacrifices herself to restore some semblence of stability to the Realms. A new Mystra arises from the ashes. Or perhaps some sort of True Neutral Mystra/Shar hybrid (I can see her using the "Midnight" name, funnily enough) if the battle involved the Dark Goddess.
Of course, the problem would be if they decided "Without the divine power of the goddess of magic sustaining them any longer, all Mystra's former Chosen die of old age" but I hope they wouldn't be so foolish.
I'm not sure if I'm keen on any of the above. The idea of Midnight popping her clogs so early, for example, irritates me - though I would like to read a death scene. That could be beautifully done - especially if some of the other gods (Kel & Cyric) get to her side for her last moments.
I've always wanted a mini Cyric*/Midnight reconcilation and I've always figured that one of them would have to be dying for it to happen.
*I'm not saying "make him good" or anything, I've just always seen him as a guy obsessed with "hate" for Mystra because he's head over heels in love with her. |
"Bane" = "Xvim" = Cyric, Prince of Lies |
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MerrikCale
Senior Scribe
USA
947 Posts |
Posted - 05 Sep 2007 : 16:27:11
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quote:
Of course, the problem would be if they decided "Without the divine power of the goddess of magic sustaining them any longer, all Mystra's former Chosen die of old age" but I hope they wouldn't be so foolish.
that would be great |
When hinges creak in doorless chambers and strange and frightening sounds echo through the halls, whenever candlelights flicker where the air is deathly still, that is the time when ghosts are present, practicing their terror with ghoulish delight. |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 05 Sep 2007 : 18:02:49
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quote:
Originally posted by MerrikCale
quote:
Of course, the problem would be if they decided "Without the divine power of the goddess of magic sustaining them any longer, all Mystra's former Chosen die of old age" but I hope they wouldn't be so foolish.
that would be great
In all friendliness of course; that would be terrible. But, we will see when the time comes which one of us will be happy. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 11 Sep 2007 : 23:23:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
In all friendliness of course; that would be terrible.
Ditto. I actually like the Chosen (many people here already know that, of course). |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Kajehase
Great Reader
Sweden
2104 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2007 : 16:08:07
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| There are some of the Chosen I can live without, but they'd better not touch Laeral (she's too cute) or the Simbul (the setting needs a slightly bonkers, witch-queen who is prone to go berserk when the evil wizards next-doors are trying to invade her country). And Storm Silverhand, of course, is almost as iconical as old El to my mind. |
There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2007 : 19:10:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Kajehase And Storm Silverhand, of course, is almost as iconical as old El to my mind.
I feel the same way. The Realms wouldn't be the Realms without Storm. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2007 : 19:12:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by Kajehase And Storm Silverhand, of course, is almost as iconical as old El to my mind.
I feel the same way. The Realms wouldn't be the Realms without Storm.
Well, Storm, Sylune, Dove, Elminster... The list goes on and on. There is not many of the original characters that I would not miss.
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2007 : 19:20:27
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| Definitely. I don't agree with those who complain that there are "too many" powerful wizards (good and evil) and that these characters somehow steal the spotlight from PCs (they don't have to dominate anyone's game!). |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Reefy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
892 Posts |
Posted - 13 Sep 2007 : 01:19:58
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| Losing Syluné and Khelben is a big blow to me, they rank in my top five characters. To lose them is just painful. Individually they make sense, but like the recent RSEs, when put together with the likes of Halaster, they add to something that doesn't feel quite right. |
Life is either daring adventure or nothing. |
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Marquant Volker
Learned Scribe
Greece
273 Posts |
Posted - 21 Sep 2007 : 04:45:21
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Why didn't anyone said something about poor Alustriel ? she is the favourite of mine.
I dont believe that Spellplague will be the end of everything arcane in the realms, i mean come on are they going to kill all the mages? The balance would be so much disturbed that i can see the Realms falling into chaos. I believe its somesort of a plot, sure some changes will occur but not radical ones.
For example think of the "Year of Rogue Dragons" is someone before the release of the novels and articles/posts told us something like: There will be somesort of magical trick that turns all Dragons of Faerun total loco" the obvious reaction would be like: "Raging dragons everywhere? oh my! its the end of Realms". Nothing like that happened. The dragonrage is over the Realms are safe (well in the long run),as our friends the Italians says: "Finnito ala musica, passato la fiesta". I believe the same will happen with the Spellplague
As for the 10 years advance i found it logical, after all there are two many changes and the Realms will need some time to breath, at least from RSE's. ( i am wondering there are too many of them lately so they dont hold much of their initial awe, perhaps we will see a new term in the future like Super RSE (SRSE) or Uber RSE (URSE), hope we dont see any A-class RSE (????) )
Another thing, giving the basic plot for 10 years away make it easier for DMs to prepare their campaigns for the Upcoming changes, so things will run smooth and interesting. (There is an existing NPC high level wizzard/arcane devotee to Mystra in my campaign whose main passion is tring to foresee the future, i am tempting to the idea of make him the first victim of the Spellplague in 1378, just to give a hint to my players. They will freak out no doubt) |
Edited by - Marquant Volker on 21 Sep 2007 04:52:57 |
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Xysma
Master of Realmslore
USA
1089 Posts |
Posted - 21 Sep 2007 : 05:04:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Definitely. I don't agree with those who complain that there are "too many" powerful wizards (good and evil) and that these characters somehow steal the spotlight from PCs (they don't have to dominate anyone's game!).
I never understood that complaint either. In seven years of playing, my group has interacted with Mirt and Durnan, Dorn and company from Year of Rogue Dragons, and a Manshoon clone. That's it. Just because the characters exist doesn't mean they have to figure into the plot of any campaign. |
War to slay, not to fight long and glorious.
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Check out my custom action figures, hand-painted miniatures, gaming products, and other stuff on eBay.
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2007 : 03:38:01
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Two PCs in my campaign tried to go borrow money from Mirt. At the door, they were answered by some big Illuskan dude with long hair, who looked tired or hungover...
"What do ye wee people want?" (talking to the halfling wizard and the gnome cleric at the door)
"We'd like to borrow money! can we see Mirt the Moneylender?"
"How much do ye wanna borrow?"
Looking at each other, the two wee people answered, "Huh, 76,259 gp?"
"Wait here"
[the two small adventurers waited about one minute, until big warrior came back]
"Deal, but you have to pay this back plus half more in the next five months. Don't bother with partial payments: come back with the full amount when you have it."
[Blanching at the high interest and quick repayment schedule, the two small adventurers backpedalled very quickly, apologizing for the disturbance and started running as they reached the streets] |
Edited by - Purple Dragon Knight on 22 Sep 2007 03:38:55 |
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ShepherdGunn
Seeker
USA
89 Posts |
Posted - 28 Sep 2007 : 10:00:11
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| I'm going to spend the next 24 hours begging to get the Grand History of the Realms book. I think that's going to make a great influence on my games, as well as my opinion on 4e FR. I would like to say, though, I've been watching the Design & Development threads, and I think each one that comes out swings the pendulum just a little bit in a completely different direction. One moment I'm intrigued... the next I'm revolted. Hope it's not the same when they start releasing 4e FR stuff. |
"Man does not live by bread alone, likewise, blades and arrows aren't the only things that can kill him." |
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ShepherdGunn
Seeker
USA
89 Posts |
Posted - 28 Sep 2007 : 10:02:28
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| Oh... and I really hope the Remaining Seven Sisters make it through the whole Spellplague thing. I'm also more than a little worried about the state of the Drow. They figure into a number of my campaigns. I'm running the Shadowdale adventure currently, and I've got a priestess of Eilistraee. The player, my wife, loves the Dark Maiden, and if they whack her... there may be consequences and repercussions, that I am not prepared to deal with. LOL |
"Man does not live by bread alone, likewise, blades and arrows aren't the only things that can kill him." |
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Aewrik
Seeker
80 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2007 : 04:07:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Definitely. I don't agree with those who complain that there are "too many" powerful wizards (good and evil) and that these characters somehow steal the spotlight from PCs (they don't have to dominate anyone's game!).
Absolutely. It all depends on the DM. I've played a few sessions (30 or so) in the realms, and I think I've mentioned Khelben and Halaster once, since both of the adventures were set near Waterdeep. I don't think Mr. Paladinson was mentioned, though.
But if you read the Orc King excerpt, there is a mage in there. Thus, the Weave can't have been completely destroyed. But then again, the mage was an elf, so perhaps they just reverted to an older way of using magic, where they don't have to depend upon the weave...
We'll all find out, sooner or later. As long as the world doesn't explode before they publish the setting, of course. |
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore
USA
1537 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2007 : 19:58:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
Moving the Realms further and further away in time from what people like about it is crazy. The timeline advancement -- in terms of years gone by, not in event density -- would be a lot more tolerable without the big jump we had to 1367 DR in 1993, where we lost several years for reasons never justified or explained.
Well, it's no secret that my campaign is set in 1360 DR, and I have to tell my players to ignore a lot of "current" Realms material in third edition books, but a ten year jump beyond even the decade they've still yet to role-play through?! Come on!
One of the NPCs with whom the players often interact in Waterdeep is Gemidan (remember him?). How interesting will he be when he's thirty years old instead of ten or so? "Oh, another uppity apprentice from Blackstaff Tower. {yawn}"  Grrr....
BUT! ... I really don't care. If I don't like this "new" Realms I will just keep running the scads of 2nd edition adventures which my players have never run through, and spend my dear dollars on old TSR stuff from eBay and Amazon rather than new stuff from WotC.
However, game dealers -- the people who have stores upon which they pay rent and taxes and permit fees and employee salaries and so on -- may want to take note of the number of Realms fans disgruntled by the proposed changes (and add that number to the number of disgruntled Krynn and Oerth fans) and do some math as to whether they can stay in business without customers coming in for those three settings and with no one coming by monthly to check out the latest Dragon Magazine, either. Perhaps instead of complaining here, we scholars would do better to voice our opinions to those heroic vendors and let them know that they will lose customers if Wizards makes changes which we chose to reject in toto. A hundred dealers complaining to Hasbro would speak louder than a thousand players! IMHO, of course....
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I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.
Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.
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BARDOBARBAROS
Senior Scribe
Greece
581 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2007 : 11:58:46
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quote:
Originally posted by MerrikCale
I believe the new 4e campaign setting is coming out in August 2008. Any thoughts?
HOW MANY YEARS HAVE PASSED SINCE 3.5 EDITION????
I THINK THEY(WIZARDS) ACT QUICKLY...NOT ONLY WITH THE RELEASE OF THE FR CAMPAIGN SETTING BUT AND FOR THE 4TH EDITION RELEASE!!...MARK THIS FACT: ON OCTOBER /2007 THEY WILL RELEASE THE RULES COMPENDIUM ON 3.5 EDITION AND ON MAY/2008 THEY WILL CHANGE THESE RULES!!!WHAT MORE TO SAY!!!!!!!!EVERYTHING FOR MONEY???
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BARDOBARBAROS DOES NOT KILL.
HE DECAPITATES!!!
"The city changes, but the fools within it remain always the same" (Edwin Odesseiron- Baldur's gate 2) |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
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BARDOBARBAROS
Senior Scribe
Greece
581 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2007 : 20:12:38
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| I KNOW THAT 3.5 EDITION WAS INTRODUCED IN 2003. THE QUESTION WAS IRONIC.. I WANTED TO SHOW THAT THE 4TH EDITION IS COMING OUT TOO CLOSE WITH 3.5 EDITION ...ONLY FIVE YEARS HAVE PASSED !! |
BARDOBARBAROS DOES NOT KILL.
HE DECAPITATES!!!
"The city changes, but the fools within it remain always the same" (Edwin Odesseiron- Baldur's gate 2) |
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Arkhaedun
Senior Scribe
869 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2007 : 20:16:14
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quote:
Originally posted by BARDOBARBAROS
I KNOW THAT 3.5 EDITION WAS INTRODUCED IN 2003. THE QUESTION WAS IRONIC.. I WANTED TO SHOW THAT THE 4TH EDITION IS COMING OUT TOO CLOSE WITH 3.5 EDITION ...ONLY FIVE YEARS HAVE PASSED !!
Just a friendly reminder, but please refrain from posting in all caps. In internet "etiquitte" this is considered shouting, and beyond that, its harder on the eyes to deal will all caps, since it makes it difficult to differentiate between word, sentences, etc.
Thanks. |
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The New FRCS
