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BARDOBARBAROS
Senior Scribe
Greece
581 Posts |
 Posted - 30 Sep 2007 : 21:34:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Arkhaedun
Just a friendly reminder, but please refrain from posting in all caps. In internet "etiquitte" this is considered shouting, and beyond that, its harder on the eyes to deal will all caps, since it makes it difficult to differentiate between word, sentences, etc.
Thanks.
ok... |
BARDOBARBAROS DOES NOT KILL.
HE DECAPITATES!!!
"The city changes, but the fools within it remain always the same" (Edwin Odesseiron- Baldur's gate 2) |
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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2007 : 22:52:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Xysma
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Definitely. I don't agree with those who complain that there are "too many" powerful wizards (good and evil) and that these characters somehow steal the spotlight from PCs (they don't have to dominate anyone's game!).
I never understood that complaint either. In seven years of playing, my group has interacted with Mirt and Durnan, Dorn and company from Year of Rogue Dragons, and a Manshoon clone. That's it. Just because the characters exist doesn't mean they have to figure into the plot of any campaign.
3E is party responsible of the problem, but D&D classed-like-PCs NPCs is the fundamental problem.
With such system, you can't create a non-adventurous, lorekeeper, magic-user. Any wizard will be made to fight monsters, because PC classes are build around that idea. Same for cleric, etc.
3E also gave the stats of a great number of NPCs, showing to all players how many badass monster bashing NPC they can found out there.
A bandaid is NPC built as NPC (4E).
A real cure is a skill-based system instead of a class-based one. That won't happen with D&D. If you want it, use another game in FR.
Once you get that, NPC can play NPC roles, i.e. to give color to what happens to the PC. |
Edited by - Skeptic on 30 Sep 2007 22:54:50 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2007 : 00:21:17
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A system where a person gets skill points based on age, as well as class level would work (use whichever is higher).
In that way, a level 1 weaponsmith could still be better at forging swords then a level 5 PC.
The only thing I truly dread with the release of the new FRCS is the date. If its only a ten year jump as in the GHotR, then I think the Realms will survive. Even a 15 year jump wouldn't be that bad - but a century or more would leave us with an entirely new setting with the FR logo tacked onto it. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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freyar
Learned Scribe
Canada
220 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2007 : 15:11:49
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| You know, a lot of people complain that the Realms have too many high-powered NPCs, but I don't really understand. Just looking at Silver Marches, Alustriel is only CR26 or so (including her Chosen abilities). Comparing to the rules as written in the DMG, it's entirely reasonable for there to be lots of high-powered NPCs in any continent as large as Faerun. Really, it's the other settings that have too few high-level NPCs. |
My DnD Links and Creations |
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Apex
Learned Scribe
USA
229 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2007 : 14:29:07
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| I really do not care a lot if they kill off any/all of the powerful/well-known NPC's in the Realms, as I have very little attachment to them. What is important to me is the maps/regional lore/gods and it unfortunately looks as though they may be hammering these things pretty hard as well, which would be unfortunate. To this day, my favorite Realms "supplement" is the City of Waterdeep Trail Map (and it really upset me when they changed the map for 3rd edition even though I still play 1st/2nd)). |
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ShepherdGunn
Seeker
USA
89 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2007 : 13:22:01
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After reading through some of the blogs, forum posts, the GHotR, and other related things, I'm really going to have to reserve my total judgment on the situation until I actually have the 4th Ed FRCS book in my hands.
I will say this, though, I am a bit confused how with the new magic system how anyone is going to "learn" to cast magic. I mean, if magic is all new to ~everyone~ even the ones who used to cast it... doesn't that mean that there's really not going to be any real Wizards with long spell casting traditions anymore?
Also, in that same vein... I'm kinda glad that there looks like it's going to be a narrowing down of the Pantheon, of course... I really hope that they don't end up zotching Sharess. I happen to like her as an active goddess. I don't think she's gotten her full due. |
"Man does not live by bread alone, likewise, blades and arrows aren't the only things that can kill him." |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 09 Oct 2007 : 18:35:33
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Just for future reference, the title of this thread should be modified.
We now know that the title of this tome will be the Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide, hence the initials FRCG will be used.
I suppose that was to differentiate it from the earlier edition when discussing sources. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 09 Oct 2007 18:35:51 |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 22 Oct 2007 : 18:36:24
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I am going to suggest that everyone take a moment and actually make sure that they like the Realms as it is being presented in the 4e FRCG before buying it. And by everyone I mean nay-sayers and yay-sayers. The only way we can really communicate to WotC how we feel about the "new" Realms is to vote with our dollars. If we vote blindly (either by just not buying it, or by buying it without looking at it) then the vote will be skewed. Please, purchase the 4e FRCG from an informed position. I am not trying to make it work or make it fail. I just want WotC to have a realistic view of how we feel about the changes. I also believe that there are people from both camps that will change their position on the changes after seeing what is in store for us in the 4e FRCG.
Well, there are my two coppers (and then some  ).
--Hawkins |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
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My game design work:
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* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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Edited by - Hawkins on 22 Oct 2007 18:37:41 |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 22 Oct 2007 : 18:55:32
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| Indeed, I intend to vote with my wallet when the time comes. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Brian R. James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
1098 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2007 : 01:54:59
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| Instead of voting Yah or Nay on 4E, I say get involved. If you really want to shape the direction of the Realms, then start contributing to the Candlekeep Compendium, the Kara-Tur Redux thread on WotC boards, the Elf Netbook, or other community sponsored project. |
Brian R. James - Freelance Game Designer
Follow me on Twitter @brianrjames |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2007 : 02:00:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Brian R. James
Instead of voting Yah or Nay on 4E, I say get involved. If you really want to shape the direction of the Realms, then start contributing to the Candlekeep Compendium, the Kara-Tur Redux thread on WotC boards, the Elf Netbook, or other community sponsored project.
A fine idea...although I still plan on voting with my wallet when the time comes. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2007 : 22:18:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Brian R. James
Instead of voting Yah or Nay on 4E, I say get involved. If you really want to shape the direction of the Realms, then start contributing to the Candlekeep Compendium, the Kara-Tur Redux thread on WotC boards, the Elf Netbook, or other community sponsored project.
What a great idea. 
They Realms shall never die, as long we keep them ALIVE. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Asgetrion
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1564 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2007 : 23:33:57
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| Hmmm... I wish I had enough time to scan all the maps from our Waterdeep campaigns. Our DM has actually mapped about a hundred buildings on his own (all of them are of astoundingly quality -- objectively speaking, of course ). In addition to this, he's actually drawn them "in scale" (using Castle Waterdeep and Yawning Portal as "measuring sticks" IIRC). |
"What am I doing today? Ask me tomorrow - I can be sure of giving you the right answer then."
-- Askarran of Selgaunt, Master Sage, speaking to a curious merchant, Year of the Helm |
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ShepherdGunn
Seeker
USA
89 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2007 : 10:35:31
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| After seeing that Bane's going to become one of the "iconic" deities, anyone have any ideas what Gods will survive in the Realms when 4th Ed drops? I'm thinking there may be another Time of Troubles weeding out of the gods. |
"Man does not live by bread alone, likewise, blades and arrows aren't the only things that can kill him." |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2007 : 15:11:37
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quote:
Originally posted by ShepherdGunn
After seeing that Bane's going to become one of the "iconic" deities, anyone have any ideas what Gods will survive in the Realms when 4th Ed drops? I'm thinking there may be another Time of Troubles weeding out of the gods.
WotC is already weeding out the gods. As for what gods will survive, we don't know at this point. We do know that some gods will get demoted, though. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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MerrikCale
Senior Scribe
USA
947 Posts |
Posted - 06 Nov 2007 : 04:16:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
[brWotC is already weeding out the gods.
And they still haven't given one good reason why |
When hinges creak in doorless chambers and strange and frightening sounds echo through the halls, whenever candlelights flicker where the air is deathly still, that is the time when ghosts are present, practicing their terror with ghoulish delight. |
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ShepherdGunn
Seeker
USA
89 Posts |
Posted - 06 Nov 2007 : 08:23:39
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| The only thing that I can think of as to why they are weeding out the Gods is because, to be honest, there kinda are a swarm of them. It seems that almost every RSE a new god ascends. And not just in Faerun. I mean, if you looked at the end of the last Dungeon Mag. story line, your character could have ascended to Demon Lord-hood. It's almost a joke with how easy it can be to become a deity sometimes. |
"Man does not live by bread alone, likewise, blades and arrows aren't the only things that can kill him." |
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MerrikCale
Senior Scribe
USA
947 Posts |
Posted - 11 Nov 2007 : 13:08:51
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quote:
Originally posted by ShepherdGunn
The only thing that I can think of as to why they are weeding out the Gods is because, to be honest, there kinda are a swarm of them.
just because there are a lot does not not seem some should go. |
When hinges creak in doorless chambers and strange and frightening sounds echo through the halls, whenever candlelights flicker where the air is deathly still, that is the time when ghosts are present, practicing their terror with ghoulish delight. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 11 Nov 2007 : 20:25:56
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Personally, I've added a few hundred myself.
You can never have too many Gods, I always say. 
I wonder how they're going to handle the Eight Million Gods of the East, or the Ten Thousand Gods of Zakhara. 
I don't understand why they think 'less is more' - With all the diversity, the Realms has that realistic 'lived-in' feel to it; why take that away?  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 11 Nov 2007 20:27:04 |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 12 Nov 2007 : 01:19:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I don't understand why they think 'less is more' - With all the diversity, the Realms has that realistic 'lived-in' feel to it; why take that away?
Agreed. And I've said this before, but it's not like the FR is the only setting that's ever had many gods. Greyhawk may have had even more than the FR. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 12 Nov 2007 : 01:36:18
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Living Greyhawk Gazetteer lists about 71 gods, and this isn't counting all of the non human deities not listed in that source. This also doesn't include the "hero deities" of the setting or the mysterious over powers mentioned in the original boxed set that exist but are too far removed from the world of mortals to make themselves known.
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 12 Nov 2007 : 01:56:26
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Living Greyhawk Gazetteer lists about 71 gods, and this isn't counting all of the non human deities not listed in that source. This also doesn't include the "hero deities" of the setting or the mysterious over powers mentioned in the original boxed set that exist but are too far removed from the world of mortals to make themselves known.
Yes, every time I searched the internet about Greyhawk deities, I found a huge list of hero deities. After seeing that, it's hard to think of the FR as having "too many gods". |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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ShepherdGunn
Seeker
USA
89 Posts |
Posted - 12 Nov 2007 : 08:46:55
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I agree with the "can't have too many Gods", personally. Heck, in my campaigns, I've had a few gods ascend, and a few saints created.
Understand, though, I think part of the issue is that we're looking at company that is currently owned by Hasbro, and I don't think that mature, thinking adults is their target audience.
That being said, I am still scratching my head when it looks like they've obliterated the gods of magic, but left all the "love" gods be. I'm a little confused by how this is all going to shape up. |
"Man does not live by bread alone, likewise, blades and arrows aren't the only things that can kill him." |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2007 : 00:05:29
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The other thing that is ironic is that if you look at the authors of the various "Races of" books, as well as the "terrain" books, you will see a lot of names that are currently working on 4th edition and the 4th edition Realms . . . and these books introduced expanded desert, cold, dwarf, elf, and human pantheons, and when introducing gods for their new races like goliaths, raptorans, and illumians, they didn't just introduce a god, or a good/neutral/evil grouping of gods, but rather they introduced whole new pantheons for them.
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MerrikCale
Senior Scribe
USA
947 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2007 : 18:18:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Brian R. James
Hours since the "Secrets of the Forgotten Realms" seminar and no spoilers yet eh? Ok I'll go first. The 4E Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting will be set in the Year of Blue Fire, 1385 DR (or about 10 years after the conclusion of most 3.5 Realms supplements).
do you still believe that to be true? |
When hinges creak in doorless chambers and strange and frightening sounds echo through the halls, whenever candlelights flicker where the air is deathly still, that is the time when ghosts are present, practicing their terror with ghoulish delight. |
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Brian R. James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
1098 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2007 : 16:15:31
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| Well, now that I've read The Orc King I don't know what to believe. It seems odd that Bob Salvatore would set the prologue of his novel 100 years in the future just for the fun of it. |
Brian R. James - Freelance Game Designer
Follow me on Twitter @brianrjames |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4686 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2007 : 19:06:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Brian R. James
Well, now that I've read The Orc King I don't know what to believe. It seems odd that Bob Salvatore would set the prologue of his novel 100 years in the future just for the fun of it.
Other then the fact it is not a prolog to the story, it indeed interesting to have that 90 year in the future interlude. Perhaps you are in a position to ask, however NDA might prevent you from being told or if you are told an NDA imposed on you.
In general design has discussed a 10 year advance, however until we see the product(s) we will not know.
Send your bother my regards. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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MerrikCale
Senior Scribe
USA
947 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2007 : 19:15:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Brian R. James
Well, now that I've read The Orc King I don't know what to believe. It seems odd that Bob Salvatore would set the prologue of his novel 100 years in the future just for the fun of it.
But when posted on this thread you seem to indicate that a 10 year jump was discussed at GenCon |
When hinges creak in doorless chambers and strange and frightening sounds echo through the halls, whenever candlelights flicker where the air is deathly still, that is the time when ghosts are present, practicing their terror with ghoulish delight. |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4686 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2007 : 19:35:33
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quote:
Originally posted by MerrikCale
quote:
Originally posted by Brian R. James
Well, now that I've read The Orc King I don't know what to believe. It seems odd that Bob Salvatore would set the prologue of his novel 100 years in the future just for the fun of it.
But when posted on this thread you seem to indicate that a 10 year jump was discussed at GenCon
You need to understand TSR and WotC makes very great use of NDA. The authors often, it appears, not allowed to freely talk to each other.
EC has discussed this briefly in comparing writing for WotC and another company. Two years ago 4th was started but only a few that work for or write for WotC were told about it then. Near lanch I suspect most WotC employees were told, however I suspect outside contributors that were not engaged in 4th products had to wait for the announcement like the rest of us. WotC clearly works on "Need to Know", Brain did not know the 10 year extension of the timeline because WotC believed he did not need to know until after the book was released. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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MerrikCale
Senior Scribe
USA
947 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2007 : 22:15:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
quote:
Originally posted by MerrikCale
quote:
Originally posted by Brian R. James
Well, now that I've read The Orc King I don't know what to believe. It seems odd that Bob Salvatore would set the prologue of his novel 100 years in the future just for the fun of it.
But when posted on this thread you seem to indicate that a 10 year jump was discussed at GenCon
You need to understand TSR and WotC makes very great use of NDA. The authors often, it appears, not allowed to freely talk to each other.
EC has discussed this briefly in comparing writing for WotC and another company. Two years ago 4th was started but only a few that work for or write for WotC were told about it then. Near lanch I suspect most WotC employees were told, however I suspect outside contributors that were not engaged in 4th products had to wait for the announcement like the rest of us. WotC clearly works on "Need to Know", Brain did not know the 10 year extension of the timeline because WotC believed he did not need to know until after the book was released.
I understand. All I'm saying is that it appeared something was said about a 10 year jump at the Con. Just wonderin' what that was |
When hinges creak in doorless chambers and strange and frightening sounds echo through the halls, whenever candlelights flicker where the air is deathly still, that is the time when ghosts are present, practicing their terror with ghoulish delight. |
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The New FRCS
