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Swordsage
Learned Scribe
149 Posts |
 Posted - 02 Jun 2006 : 09:35:17
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Well, let me put it this way: if the art is great but the content is awful and vice versa, which would you prefer?
The Swordsage |
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Monsoon28
Acolyte
Canada
16 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jun 2006 : 10:51:06
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The point is we do have the cover art, we're going to have to wait a little while further still for the content. So we can come together and critique the cover, when we get the content then we can critique that.
The issue is that it's art, therefore inherently subjective to the viewer. The Cover is nice but some are finding it less then rememberable. Other's think it's fine, but if you're a fan of WAR's work then you're probable going to be happier with the (cover) art that many Ebberon books are getting over FR, but if your a bigger fan of ppl such as Lucio Parrillo, Adam Rex or Marc Sasso then FR is keeping you happy. Personally, dragons were better utilized on the covers of Power of Faerun and Champions of Ruin then on Dragons of Faerun.
IMO WAR is to D&D what Kevin Long was to The Rift's RPG, but like I said arts subjective and others will totally disagree. |
'The only thing I know is that I know nothing' -Socrates |
Edited by - Monsoon28 on 02 Jun 2006 10:53:57 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jun 2006 : 11:13:41
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| As I've said before, I've not been a fan of TSR/WotC artwork since they stopped employing Larry Elmore, Jeff Easley, Clyde Caldwell, and, to a lesser extent, the late Keith Parkinson. The art was phenomenal, back in those days. Since then, the art has been forgettable, at best. If I bought FR products based on artwork, I'd've not picked up anything new for over 10 years. |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jun 2006 : 18:32:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
As I've said before, I've not been a fan of TSR/WotC artwork since they stopped employing Larry Elmore, Jeff Easley, Clyde Caldwell, and, to a lesser extent, the late Keith Parkinson. The art was phenomenal, back in those days. Since then, the art has been forgettable, at best. If I bought FR products based on artwork, I'd've not picked up anything new for over 10 years.
Me either. Hells, I just grabbed the Complete Rangers Handbook for my email game for some additional info and the first few pictures made me go, "Man, I miss 2e's art. I could look at these pictures and actually think of scenes on how they would fit in a D&D world." 3/3.5E art doesn't inspire me that way and I can't recall any 1 picture in the current sourcebooks that I can really recall that has held my interest. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 02 Jun 2006 23:45:15 |
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Archwizard
Learned Scribe
USA
266 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jun 2006 : 22:32:21
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That Keith Parkinson painting with the Ice Dragon and Dwarves kicks ass on so many levels.
I've noticed that while the artwork in the 3e books is not worse than the Eberron artwork, Eberron seemed to have found an atmosphere that carries through the different pieces throughout all the books. To me it seems that the art in FR books just seems sort of hodge podge. They treat FR as if it was core and use generic themes, colors, subjects. |
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Snotlord
Senior Scribe
Norway
476 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jun 2006 : 22:56:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
... I can't recall any 1 picture in the current sourcebook that I can really recall that has held my interest.
What about the Mysteries of the Moonsea cover? |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jun 2006 : 23:46:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Snotlord
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
... I can't recall any 1 picture in the current sourcebook that I can really recall that has held my interest.
What about the Mysteries of the Moonsea cover?
Seems to be the same as most 3/3.5e FR covers.... So, it doesn't inspire me and it's not that memorial to me. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jun 2006 : 00:31:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
I can't recall any 1 picture in the current sourcebooks that I can really recall that has held my interest.
There's been a couple of nice pics, but only a couple... |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jun 2006 : 01:23:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
I can't recall any 1 picture in the current sourcebooks that I can really recall that has held my interest.
There's been a couple of nice pics, but only a couple...
Shining South is probably one of the few 3e covers that I actually have any interest for.
But getting back to what you said earlier... yes, I've largely forgotten most of the imagery for 3e FR books. Not at all like those from 2e where I can almost always immediately recall a favorite piece of artwork or particular image included in an 2e FR tome.
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scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jun 2006 : 17:37:42
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| What is humorous to me is... we will all most likely still go out and purchase these sourcbooks regardless. In my opinion, from a marketing standpoint, most of these FR sourcebooks are being purchased by regular FR fans anyways. I do not see someone who has never played D&D saying hey, I am going to start playing this game, just because they saw dragons of faerun. We Avid FR fans are buying content at this point, not cover art. I would think that more funds would go into introductory or core material first, to hook the buyer. Anyways my 2 coppers, and I too miss the older artwork by Elmore, Easley, Caldwell, etc... |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jun 2006 : 20:22:48
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quote:
Originally posted by scererar
What is humorous to me is... we will all most likely still go out and purchase these sourcbooks regardless. In my opinion, from a marketing standpoint, most of these FR sourcebooks are being purchased by regular FR fans anyways. I do not see someone who has never played D&D saying hey, I am going to start playing this game, just because they saw dragons of faerun. We Avid FR fans are buying content at this point, not cover art. I would think that more funds would go into introductory or core material first, to hook the buyer. Anyways my 2 coppers, and I too miss the older artwork by Elmore, Easley, Caldwell, etc...
Oh, yeah, I'll still go out and buy the books, anyway... But the artwork doesn't do a thing for me, and does not factor at all into the equation. I don't even bother to look at the image galleries when they post them online, because I know it will be a waste of my time.
I'd be just as happy with a plain cover, and no internal artwork. That way, they're not wasting the money on crappy art, nor are they wasting valuable page space on something that doesn't contribute to the book. |
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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 03 Jun 2006 22:37:35 |
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Brenigin
Learned Scribe
New Zealand
117 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2006 : 01:19:42
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| I laugh whenever this debate crops up. Everyone has their own view, and are never going to be argued round. Personally, I'm a big fan of the 3E art, despite picking up the Old Gray Box when it first came out. I do like many of the old covers, but most 1E/2E products had fair to middling interior art at best, rubbish at worst. |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2006 : 01:49:41
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| For what its worth, the Realms artist I miss the most is still Valerie Valusek. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2006 : 02:11:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I'd be just as happy with a plain cover, and no internal artwork. That way, they're not wasting the money on crappy art, nor are they wasting valuable page space on something that doesn't contribute to the book.
I disagree a little with that.
Some of the more recent internal artwork has been rather intriguing actually... and while not always consistent with an actual lore description of a place, person or object... the internal artwork images themselves can provide useful roleplaying aids -- provided they're accurate  .
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scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2006 : 03:27:38
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I'd be just as happy with a plain cover, and no internal artwork. That way, they're not wasting the money on crappy art, nor are they wasting valuable page space on something that doesn't contribute to the book.
I disagree a little with that.
Some of the more recent internal artwork has been rather intriguing actually... and while not always consistent with an actual lore description of a place, person or object... the internal artwork images themselves can provide useful roleplaying aids -- provided they're accurate .
I was thinking along the same lines as the both of you. While I would not mind having a "bare" cover, something along the lines of FRCS, I would however like to see intriguing interior artwork.
I would only like to see this if it pertained to what was being discussed and was used with some care, as to page content and the overall layout of the sourcebook. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2006 : 07:02:47
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| Don't get me wrong -- if the internal artwork was good, then by all means, let's have it. But most of the internal artwork hasn't been all that, and in some cases, the artwork doesn't at all match the description. That irks me. I'd rather have no art than bad art or art that didn't match the description. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2006 : 07:05:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Don't get me wrong -- if the internal artwork was good, then by all means, let's have it. But most of the internal artwork hasn't been all that, and in some cases, the artwork doesn't at all match the description. That irks me. I'd rather have no art than bad art or art that didn't match the description.
What really irks me is WOTC changing the text to match the artwork..... But I'm sure no one wants to hear my rant about that drow skin tones again. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Lord Rad
Great Reader
United Kingdom
2080 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2006 : 12:43:22
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I think some of the 3\3.5 cover art is excellent! Mysteries of the Moonsea is one of the best i've seen and I find Dragons of Faerun quite good quality.
Times change and although I'm a HUGE fan of Easley, Elmore and authors of that period, they just wouldn't fit well with todays products. They certainly have an 80's feel for me and the female depictions are quite cringworthy looking at them now
I'm sure i've mentioned this before, but Tood Lockwood has done wonders for WotC's product line. Nobody can deny that his artwork isn't of outstanding quality!
But anyway, I guess this is all quite offtopic for Dragons of Faerun discussions  |
Lord Rad
"What? No, I wasn't reading your module. I was just looking at the pictures"
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2006 : 16:04:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Don't get me wrong -- if the internal artwork was good, then by all means, let's have it. But most of the internal artwork hasn't been all that, and in some cases, the artwork doesn't at all match the description. That irks me. I'd rather have no art than bad art or art that didn't match the description.
What really irks me is WOTC changing the text to match the artwork.....
I think that's the most irritating aspect of internal artwork in FR tomes. As I said before... I'm happy with the artwork... so long as it's accurate according to the lore.
If it came down to a decision about having constant inaccurate visual images included in FR tomes, or none at all... I'd chose none at all. The written physical description details for places, people or objects would be sufficient in that case.
quote:
But I'm sure no one wants to hear my rant about that drow skin tones again. :)
It almost seems that Underdark is remembered more for that reason that its actual lore content.
Fortunately Rich set us straight on the issue  .
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2006 : 18:03:06
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
It almost seems that Underdark is remembered more for that reason that its actual lore content.
Fortunately Rich set us straight on the issue .
This is so true for me, plus, as usual, I liked 2e's underdark book better....
And I agree with the first part that I didn't quote, I'd rather have artwork that matches the lore and if that isn't possible then none at all. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jun 2006 : 01:39:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
This is so true for me, plus, as usual, I liked 2e's underdark book better....
I won't disagree with that, as you know...
-- Speaking of artwork for FR tomes... does anyone know who some of the principle artists working on artwork for DoF are?
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jun 2006 : 02:36:58
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| Will there be any Regional maps in DoF? if so where? |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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EytanBernstein
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
704 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jun 2006 : 07:38:52
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Sorry, not sure we're allowed to give out that sort of info yet. Perhaps once the table of contents is available.
quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
Will there be any Regional maps in DoF? if so where?
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http://eytanbernstein.com - the official website of Eytan Bernstein |
Edited by - EytanBernstein on 08 Jun 2006 07:39:09 |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2006 : 02:02:18
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We'll Dragons of Faerun is the next FR source book to be released now that MoM is out
I have a question
Will Dragons of Faerun introduce Dragonspawn into the Forgotten Realms?
*Im hoping the answer is no as I really dont like the concept and as such Im not that keen on buying Monster Manual IV which is rumoured to have 15-25 Dragonspawn entries out at 100 creatures in the whole book |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Swordsage
Learned Scribe
149 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2006 : 02:52:16
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I think it might depend on how the concept is introduced in the Forgotten Realms. The important thing is for it to fit the setting and previous products.
The Swordsage
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2006 : 03:01:13
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| I personally like the dragonspawn concept, and if it was kept small-scale and well-explained, I'd like seeing that particular critter translated to FR terms. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2006 : 03:12:41
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| I'm betting that it is at least somewhat introduced. After all, Red Hand of Doom was a "psuedo" Realms adventure . . . |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2006 : 04:34:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I personally like the dragonspawn concept, and if it was kept small-scale and well-explained, I'd like seeing that particular critter translated to FR terms.
I think there an unecessary waste of time
The Dragonspawn dont do anything that cant be done with a the Half Dragon Template or any of the other dragon related Templates |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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EytanBernstein
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
704 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2006 : 06:25:52
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I can't answer that at the moment as there hasn't yet been a true preview for the content of the book. You'll just have to wait and see in the previews in July.
quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
We'll Dragons of Faerun is the next FR source book to be released now that MoM is out
I have a question
Will Dragons of Faerun introduce Dragonspawn into the Forgotten Realms?
*Im hoping the answer is no as I really dont like the concept and as such Im not that keen on buying Monster Manual IV which is rumoured to have 15-25 Dragonspawn entries out at 100 creatures in the whole book
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http://eytanbernstein.com - the official website of Eytan Bernstein |
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Ergdusch
Master of Realmslore
Germany
1720 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2006 : 10:00:38
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Mmmmmmmmmhhhh, somehow I am very sceptical that this product will bing us anything new (besides some artwork maybe...)
Ergdusch |
"Das Gras weht im Wind, wenn der Wind weht." |
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Dragons of Faerun
