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Killashandra
Acolyte
South Africa
24 Posts |
 Posted - 05 Sep 2005 : 11:36:16
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Hi!
I'm busy reading Evermeet for the first time and I have a general question.
The Thunderblessing increased the Dwarven birthrate and such right? Why don't the elven pantheon do the same for their children?
Except the gold elves of course, all gold elves must DIE...
Hmmm, that might be overstating, all right, all evil gold elves must...no, wait, that's the same as sayingn all gold elves should die 
Anyhow, would anyone care to venture a guess why the elves don't get similairly saved as a race?
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He's not evil, he's just...alternativly aligned.
A Kiwi fruit: Take a hamster, shave it's hair so that only stubble remains, cut off it's head and feet and there you go! |
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warlockco
Master of Realmslore
USA
1695 Posts |
Posted - 05 Sep 2005 : 12:01:12
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How about castration of all Male Gold Elves? 
And just let the randomness of subrace determine if the Female Gold Elves birth more Gold Elves, or elves of the other subraces. Course striking some of them barren too, wouldn't be a bad ideal either.
Be interesting to see the results of when Elaith's daughter tries to claim the Moonblade, with her being a Gold Elf. |
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Shadovar
Senior Scribe
785 Posts |
Posted - 05 Sep 2005 : 13:59:57
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Hmm...why elves do not recieve the thunder blessing? A....worthy question indeed, well the answer lies with Correllon himself as afterall the elves were created from his blood or something like that. Generally, I think here are some reasons:
1) The elves must be becoming more of a disappointment or disgrace to Correllon, for the elves which were once numerous on Faerun, instead of living peacefully side by side with each other, somehow became tainted by greed and politics and worse, with some turning to the Spider-Queen. Given the five Crown Wars and the Sundering, I think Correllon feels that it is not a wise idea to help bolster the elven population until they kind of "learn" the true ways intended for them.
2) The elves have suffered enough on Faerun thanks to many wars and incidents that had brought great mounds of suffering and despair on the elves, so Correllon thinks that if He was to help boost the fledging elven numbers, then these elves who going to be born into Faerun will suffer the fates suffered by their parents and ancestors.
3) The last reason is the least obvious and most unlikely but possible, it may be that the Seldarine feels that their elven children are too proud and too dependent on their elven gods to "do this and do that" for them and not living up to the expectations and teachings of the Seldarine-otherwise straying from their elven creators teachings and rules , so the Seldarine are isolating themselves from the affairs of their children until.....they "wake up". |
We have fostered trust, recruited loyalty, and gathered the faithful. We have trained thousands. Our legions can cover the land, fill the sky and travel through the darkness. We can hunt any and all that would deny our heritage. Now is our time, now is the time of the Dark Reign(Rain) of the Empire of Shadows.
- High Prince Telemont Tanthul, Lord Shadow
In a speech given to the citizens of Shade Enclave
At the celebration of the Shinantra Battle victory when he revealed that he was THE Lord Shadow of legend. |
Edited by - Shadovar on 05 Sep 2005 14:02:01 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 05 Sep 2005 : 16:01:13
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The elves were not a race in decline, as were the dwarves. Sure, they weren't as numerous as they once were, and they were pulling back from Faerûn... But they weren't in active decline.
The dwarves were in decline. The had the same slow birthrate, but they were surrounded by enemies on all sides and constantly losing numbers to them. They didn't have magical barriers to hide behind, and their biggest stronghold was, unlike Evermeet, something that could be relatively easy to get to.
Without the Thunder Blessing, the dwarves would have eventually died out. The elves were not in a similar position, so they didn't need a "Flower Blessing" (or Star Blessing, or anything else like that). |
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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
Posted - 05 Sep 2005 : 16:29:33
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| The dwarves need more arcane might........ |
If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 05 Sep 2005 : 17:01:50
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quote:
Originally posted by khorne
The dwarves need more arcane might........
Well, in 2E, dwarves were actively non-magical. It's only in 3E that that has changed. For in-game explanations, I'd say that before the Thunder Blessing, dwarven spellcasters were rare and thus hidden and protected. After the Blessing, they became more common.
Or maybe the Blessing didn't just up the birthrate, it also made dwarves more magical... |
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hammer of Moradin
Senior Scribe
USA
758 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2005 : 05:13:13
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My upcoming article for the Compendium touches greatly on the subject of dwarves (imagine that! ) and the Thunder Blessing, or Forge.
Mostly it speaks of the aftermath and effects of the Forge.
Due out soon. |
"Hurling himself upon his enemies, he terrified them with slaughter!"
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium
Candlekeep proverb: If a thing is said often enough, fools aplenty will believe it to be true. |
Edited by - hammer of Moradin on 06 Sep 2005 05:25:50 |
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warlockco
Master of Realmslore
USA
1695 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2005 : 06:54:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by khorne
The dwarves need more arcane might........
Well, in 2E, dwarves were actively non-magical. It's only in 3E that that has changed. For in-game explanations, I'd say that before the Thunder Blessing, dwarven spellcasters were rare and thus hidden and protected. After the Blessing, they became more common.
Or maybe the Blessing didn't just up the birthrate, it also made dwarves more magical...
There are a few examples of Dwarf mages in 2E, not very many though.
The North boxed set in the Daggerford booklet has Behring CN Wiz3, a Shield Dwarf Wizard. Alustriel thinks he might have some human blood, though Behring denies this. |
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Killashandra
Acolyte
South Africa
24 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2005 : 08:20:00
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Hmmmmm, from the impression of the books, it seems that the elves are slowly dying. Which to some extent puzzles me (but then I'm human). I mean jeez, it's simple, put up a border and shoot all trespassers... Meh, I know, I know, that's what Evermeet is. The problem with Evermeet is they forgot that you need ambassadors (yours in other countries, other countries in yours). Everybody needs allies. And I swear, the first elf to spout about how allies have betrayed them in the past is going to get bopped!!! Stop living in the past and smell the modern politics. I know it offends your delicate senses but learn from Elaith and maybe you can make it through...
Sorry, rant over. No idea where that came from :-D
Speaking of Elaith and Azariah, yeah it is going to be interesting, but I reckon she can claim it no issues. She might appear to be gold elf, but Elaith's blood must be in there somewhere!!! If she doesn't however, I guess there is always the mysterious son...
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He's not evil, he's just...alternativly aligned.
A Kiwi fruit: Take a hamster, shave it's hair so that only stubble remains, cut off it's head and feet and there you go! |
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Crennen FaerieBane
Master of Realmslore
USA
1378 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2005 : 14:44:22
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Well, you have to remember that coming up soon is the Year of Risen Elfkin, which should have some kind of bearing on what is to be expected with the Elven population.
And not all Gold Elves are evil... Look at Seiveril from The Last Mythal series.
C-Fb |
Still rockin' the Fey'ri style. |
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warlockco
Master of Realmslore
USA
1695 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2005 : 17:28:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Killashandra
Speaking of Elaith and Azariah, yeah it is going to be interesting, but I reckon she can claim it no issues. She might appear to be gold elf, but Elaith's blood must be in there somewhere!!! If she doesn't however, I guess there is always the mysterious son...
Even though she is of mixed blood, a Gold Elf is a Gold Elf, and the Moonblades have shown a very grand history of killing ALL Gold Elves that have tried to claim one. |
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doublesquirrel
Acolyte
USA
4 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2005 : 05:34:42
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Elves don't really need a high population anyways. Sure, it's rather low considering what it was back in the old days (and by old days, I'm talking about when Elminster was still a KID), but remember how long lived they are, and how they are almost coservative to a fault. Elves may dwindle, but it is my solemn belief that they will never die out.
As for Elaith and Azariah, I personally believe that Elaith himself has a better chance than his stubborn little child. For Example:
When he was poisoned, and his thoughts drifted to his infant child, did the moonblade not cure him? And as of late, in the short story "Game of Chance" from Dragon No. 335, did the foreign moonblade not glow in his hands when he snatched it away just before it lead to Azariah's demise? Elaith has good in him, deep down. If he ever embraces it, and realizes his love for his race is not just out of duty, the Craulnobler blade shall accept him as the rightful wielder.
However, that might bump his coolness factor down a smiggen. |
Of course, that's just my opinion. |
Edited by - doublesquirrel on 07 Sep 2005 05:38:35 |
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Crennen FaerieBane
Master of Realmslore
USA
1378 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2005 : 14:45:11
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Well, there's nothing to say Elaith might not become more of an Anti-hero type, even with the moonblade. His line was once uber-noble and I am sure that he knows that... he may just be biding his time and protecting his child - she is the last Craulnober - or he could just find himself a nice Silver Elven Woman and have many more Craulnobers - re-open his fortress on the north of Evermeet and give the damned Durothil's a run for their money.
C-Fb |
Still rockin' the Fey'ri style. |
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hammer of Moradin
Senior Scribe
USA
758 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2005 : 03:32:29
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The Candlekeep Compendium is posted. For more information on the Thunder Blessing, in regards to dwarves, click on the link in my sig.
Enjoy! |
"Hurling himself upon his enemies, he terrified them with slaughter!"
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium
Candlekeep proverb: If a thing is said often enough, fools aplenty will believe it to be true. |
Edited by - hammer of Moradin on 15 Sep 2005 16:12:12 |
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lowtech
Learned Scribe
USA
315 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2005 : 04:08:29
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[quote]Originally posted by Killashandra
Hi!
The Thunderblessing increased the Dwarven birthrate and such right? Why don't the elven pantheon do the same for their children?
It could simply be that the Elf gods have no idea how to accomplish such a thing. Different gods have different abilities. By the same token, the Dwarf gods don't seem to be able to superimpose aspects of the Dwarf heaven onto Faerun in order to create a (relatively) secure Dwarven homeland on faerun, like the Seldarine did for the elves with Evermeet. |
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
USA
1707 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2005 : 12:51:29
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quote:
Originally posted by warlockco
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by khorne
The dwarves need more arcane might........
Well, in 2E, dwarves were actively non-magical. It's only in 3E that that has changed. For in-game explanations, I'd say that before the Thunder Blessing, dwarven spellcasters were rare and thus hidden and protected. After the Blessing, they became more common.
Or maybe the Blessing didn't just up the birthrate, it also made dwarves more magical...
There are a few examples of Dwarf mages in 2E, not very many though.
The North boxed set in the Daggerford booklet has Behring CN Wiz3, a Shield Dwarf Wizard. Alustriel thinks he might have some human blood, though Behring denies this.
General question here--Did anyone make use of the odd option I put into THE LOST LEVEL (the Undermountain Dungeon Crawl) that would allow anyone to become a dwarf and retain their skills? That was one of the weirder ways in 2E of having dwarven wizards...
SES |
For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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warlockco
Master of Realmslore
USA
1695 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2005 : 15:00:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend
General question here--Did anyone make use of the odd option I put into THE LOST LEVEL (the Undermountain Dungeon Crawl) that would allow anyone to become a dwarf and retain their skills? That was one of the weirder ways in 2E of having dwarven wizards...
SES
Never had a chance to run that  |
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Killashandra
Acolyte
South Africa
24 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2005 : 12:12:37
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I didn't either, only met the realms in DnD 3, so the restrictions no longer applied.
<grins> the things we used to do to get around race restrictions... |
He's not evil, he's just...alternativly aligned.
A Kiwi fruit: Take a hamster, shave it's hair so that only stubble remains, cut off it's head and feet and there you go! |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2005 : 23:07:02
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| Actually yes. I had a part of seven wander through the Lost Level, and three of the party decided to become dwarves. One was a human paladin, one was a human wizard, and one was a duergar exile (Demihumans of the Realms kit) fighter/thief. That was an interesting group, the paladin especially enjoyed pretending to be a normal fighter until the opportune moment and then making jaws drop. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Jindael
Senior Scribe
USA
357 Posts |
Posted - 28 Sep 2005 : 15:46:18
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| Who’s that new elven god again? The one that showed up in Races of the Wild, the god of parties and festivities and debauchery? Rather than just have the gods of the elves make the elves more fertile (like the thunderblessing) they just brought in a long forgotten deity to the forefront and had him just encourage the elves to…er become “more prolific in their physical engagements” |
"You don't have a Soul. You are a Soul. You have a body."
-- C.S. Lewis |
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Killashandra
Acolyte
South Africa
24 Posts |
Posted - 28 Sep 2005 : 16:49:37
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physical engagements....so diplomatically put <snickers>
Actually, I've always had the impression that elves were fairly ... active... in that department, but that they were not quite as fertile as humans and that giving birth wasn't easy, the fragile constitution and all. |
He's not evil, he's just...alternativly aligned.
A Kiwi fruit: Take a hamster, shave it's hair so that only stubble remains, cut off it's head and feet and there you go! |
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Jindael
Senior Scribe
USA
357 Posts |
Posted - 28 Sep 2005 : 17:08:05
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On the risk of going slightly off topic:
I always thought that the elves would be pretty sexually active in their day to day lives (even Sun elves, who I imagine would be a little more picky about their partners.) and probably don’t need the assistance of having someone encourage them. However, I never thought of them as having births that are of extraordinary difficulty (that seems counter productive to a race) but rather that they have a totally different fertility cycle. Lower sperm counts and reduced rates of ovulation are my guess.
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"You don't have a Soul. You are a Soul. You have a body."
-- C.S. Lewis |
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hammer of Moradin
Senior Scribe
USA
758 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2005 : 16:01:46
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I had another thought on this. Higher birthrate is one thing, infant mortality rate another.
Elves are likely doing good with infant mortality, despite a, slight, disadvantage with constitution. They have magic at their disposal. Most communities of elf folk will be tight-knit, and so they share their magic to increase the baby's chance of survival.
Same with dwarves, except before the birthrate went to near nothing, meaning there just weren't many babies being born. Those that were probably had the best shot any infant could have. Tight-knit community, clerics aplenty, high constitution, etc.
Elves do OK, they just are longer lived, so it takes quite a while for the young-uns to develop to maturity.
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"Hurling himself upon his enemies, he terrified them with slaughter!"
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium
Candlekeep proverb: If a thing is said often enough, fools aplenty will believe it to be true. |
Edited by - hammer of Moradin on 03 Oct 2005 05:35:40 |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2005 : 18:15:03
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| Plus, don't forgot, that elves have to carry thier fetus for two years before it'll be born. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Crennen FaerieBane
Master of Realmslore
USA
1378 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2005 : 18:23:51
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Actually, Kuje, according to the Races of the Wild, I believe it says that Elves still carry their children to about the same term humans do. Now, if I am wrong about this - don't get mad, I am in Boston, far away from my books, but I remember it saying that in the book.
C-Fb |
Still rockin' the Fey'ri style. |
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Jindael
Senior Scribe
USA
357 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2005 : 21:50:47
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| Is is listed as such in Races of the Wild, but Ed has said that 2 years for realms elves. |
"You don't have a Soul. You are a Soul. You have a body."
-- C.S. Lewis |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2005 : 22:07:55
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quote:
Originally posted by CrennenFaerieBane
Actually, Kuje, according to the Races of the Wild, I believe it says that Elves still carry their children to about the same term humans do. Now, if I am wrong about this - don't get mad, I am in Boston, far away from my books, but I remember it saying that in the book.
C-Fb
In FR it's still 2 years according to Ed, as the other poster said. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Jindael
Senior Scribe
USA
357 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2005 : 23:42:14
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| That said, I use an 8 month gestation period in my games. |
"You don't have a Soul. You are a Soul. You have a body."
-- C.S. Lewis |
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Crennen FaerieBane
Master of Realmslore
USA
1378 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2005 : 12:59:11
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Yeah, I figured as much... I know core rules generally don't apply - I just thought it was weird for them to change such a standard. I had always heard the 2 year gestation period as well. So, I have no idea where the core game went off and awry!! Weirdness.
C-Fb |
Still rockin' the Fey'ri style. |
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warlockco
Master of Realmslore
USA
1695 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2005 : 07:42:19
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quote:
Originally posted by CrennenFaerieBane
Actually, Kuje, according to the Races of the Wild, I believe it says that Elves still carry their children to about the same term humans do. Now, if I am wrong about this - don't get mad, I am in Boston, far away from my books, but I remember it saying that in the book.
C-Fb
For Canon material for FR elves, I'll go with The Complete Book of Elves from 2E before I go with Races of the Wild, since alot of the material in that book followed along with Ed's views on Elves. As opposed to the material in Races of the Wild. |
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Crennen FaerieBane
Master of Realmslore
USA
1378 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2005 : 12:56:02
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Oh yeah, I agree... I think the 2 yr gestation period is very much set in stone. I was just surprised that they decided to even change it. Sometimes I don't know what goes on up in Renton when they decide to change something that has been almost set in stone since the game began. Oh well.. WotC certainly does have their hits and misses.
C-Fb |
Still rockin' the Fey'ri style. |
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Thunderblessing for elves?
