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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
4745 Posts

Posted - 04 Jan 2005 :  23:38:01  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
"Lost Empires of Faerun" will reveal all no doubt, given Rich's Table of Contents. Not long to go now ...

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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Elven One
Acolyte

5 Posts

Posted - 23 Jan 2005 :  18:05:17  Show Profile  Visit Elven One's Homepage  Send Elven One an AOL message Send Elven One a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I originally posted this on the Wizards forums, but thats not the place for novel discussions.

I just finished reading Forsaken House, very well written. One of the best FR books I've read, can't wait for for the second book to come out. I was looking through some old material and noticed an interesting fact. The wonderous figurine Guenhwyvar currently owned by Drizzt Do'Urden, was crafted in Myth Drannor and given to Josidiah Starym. Both Fflar and Josidiah were famous and important during the last days of Myth Drannor (I'm not sure what they're relationship was, friends?). Since Fflar has been resurrected and Drizzt left Mithral Hall with Innovindel, is Drizzt, in any way, involved in the plot of the elven return to Faerun? What was the the relationship between Fflar and Josidiah? The reasoning behind my question was that if they Drizzt and Fflar ever met, I'm quite sure that Fflar and Guenhwyvar would recognize each other. Then again different authors behind these characters, you and Mr. Salvatore. I was looking over some other FR info and the Tree of Souls came up.

Question to Mr. Baker: Is Drizzt or Guenhwyvar, in any way, involved in the plot of the elven return to Faerun? What was the the relationship between Fflar and Josidiah? Is the Tree of Souls involved in the Last Mythal trilogy? Thanks!

Edited by - Elven One on 23 Jan 2005 18:06:51
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore

Canada
1272 Posts

Posted - 23 Jan 2005 :  20:52:27  Show Profile  Visit DDH_101's Homepage  Click to see DDH_101's MSN Messenger address Send DDH_101 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Josidiah was a member of the Council of Twelve, was he not? So Fflar as the captain of Myth Drannor's army, should have at least have a working relationship with him.

"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
4745 Posts

Posted - 23 Jan 2005 :  22:59:49  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Problem is, Josidiah "lost" Guen prior to returning to Myth Drannor after his long absence. Thus Fflar would never have met/seen Guen to recognise her - although he may have heard of her.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
29724 Posts

Posted - 23 Jan 2005 :  23:59:18  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

Problem is, Josidiah "lost" Guen prior to returning to Myth Drannor after his long absence. Thus Fflar would never have met/seen Guen to recognise her - although he may have heard of her.

-- George Krashos




Indeed. But were there any details ever given of this loss? We know he lost her in the Underdark, but do we know how, or how she made it into drow hands?

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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore

Canada
1272 Posts

Posted - 24 Jan 2005 :  01:15:04  Show Profile  Visit DDH_101's Homepage  Click to see DDH_101's MSN Messenger address Send DDH_101 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Wooly, it was rumoured that Josidiah traded Guen for the Soldier's Blade, the weapon that he promised to return to Myth Drannor years ago with his companions when they left for the Twisted Tower.

"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
29724 Posts

Posted - 24 Jan 2005 :  01:52:01  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101

Wooly, it was rumoured that Josidiah traded Guen for the Soldier's Blade, the weapon that he promised to return to Myth Drannor years ago with his companions when they left for the Twisted Tower.



Interesante... What is the source of this information?

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Elven One
Acolyte

5 Posts

Posted - 24 Jan 2005 :  02:54:15  Show Profile  Visit Elven One's Homepage  Send Elven One an AOL message Send Elven One a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The information concerning Josidiah Starym can be found in Cormanthyr Empire of the Elves and the Fall of Myth Drannor. The timelines and character descriptions have bits and pieces, you just have to look, takes a while. I couldn't find the rumors of Guen trade but I have heard of them as well.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
29724 Posts

Posted - 24 Jan 2005 :  03:22:56  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Elven One

The information concerning Josidiah Starym can be found in Cormanthyr Empire of the Elves and the Fall of Myth Drannor. The timelines and character descriptions have bits and pieces, you just have to look, takes a while. I couldn't find the rumors of Guen trade but I have heard of them as well.



I'm familiar with the other material, just not the rumor.

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SiriusBlack
Great Reader

USA
5517 Posts

Posted - 24 Jan 2005 :  04:15:49  Show Profile  Visit SiriusBlack's Homepage Send SiriusBlack a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Elven One

The information concerning Josidiah Starym can be found in Cormanthyr Empire of the Elves and the Fall of Myth Drannor. The timelines and character descriptions have bits and pieces, you just have to look, takes a while. I couldn't find the rumors of Guen trade but I have heard of them as well.



I'm familiar with the other material, just not the rumor.



The only relevant blurb I'm aware of comes in the Fall of Myth Drannor tome. In detailing Starym's return with one of the legendary blades, it notes he doesn't have the figurine any longer. Sorry, I can't recall more or the exact page number. I don't have access to the PDF at this moment.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
29724 Posts

Posted - 24 Jan 2005 :  06:13:34  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Elven One

The information concerning Josidiah Starym can be found in Cormanthyr Empire of the Elves and the Fall of Myth Drannor. The timelines and character descriptions have bits and pieces, you just have to look, takes a while. I couldn't find the rumors of Guen trade but I have heard of them as well.



I'm familiar with the other material, just not the rumor.



The only relevant blurb I'm aware of comes in the Fall of Myth Drannor tome. In detailing Starym's return with one of the legendary blades, it notes he doesn't have the figurine any longer. Sorry, I can't recall more or the exact page number. I don't have access to the PDF at this moment.



I recall that much, and I further seem to recall that he wouldn't talk about what happened to Guen. I'm just curious about this rumor DDH mentioned...

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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author

USA
1631 Posts

Posted - 24 Jan 2005 :  18:13:56  Show Profile  Visit Steven Schend's Homepage  Send Steven Schend a Yahoo! Message Send Steven Schend a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Elven One

The information concerning Josidiah Starym can be found in Cormanthyr Empire of the Elves and the Fall of Myth Drannor. The timelines and character descriptions have bits and pieces, you just have to look, takes a while. I couldn't find the rumors of Guen trade but I have heard of them as well.



I'm familiar with the other material, just not the rumor.



The only relevant blurb I'm aware of comes in the Fall of Myth Drannor tome. In detailing Starym's return with one of the legendary blades, it notes he doesn't have the figurine any longer. Sorry, I can't recall more or the exact page number. I don't have access to the PDF at this moment.



I recall that much, and I further seem to recall that he wouldn't talk about what happened to Guen. I'm just curious about this rumor DDH mentioned...



I'm fairly certain I'm to blame for that rumor, as it's hinted at if not clearly stated in FOMD. I figured Josidiah wouldn't part with Gwen without an excrutiatingly good reason, and returning one of the fabled blades of power to Cormanthyr (stolen long before his day, if memory serves) would be one of the few. It's one of the hidden things in C:EoE and FoMD that I didn't want to underscore, leaving it as a reward for careful readers.

Of course, one of the other things/potential story developments I left in FoMD was a trick from comic books: If there's no body....

Steven

For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore

Canada
1272 Posts

Posted - 24 Jan 2005 :  22:42:03  Show Profile  Visit DDH_101's Homepage  Click to see DDH_101's MSN Messenger address Send DDH_101 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101

Wooly, it was rumoured that Josidiah traded Guen for the Soldier's Blade, the weapon that he promised to return to Myth Drannor years ago with his companions when they left for the Twisted Tower.



Interesante... What is the source of this information?



Wooly, I found it in Forgotten Realms: The Library website in its timeline.

674/Year of the Nomad

Josidiah does not take up his rightful place as Lord-Speaker of House Starym, but he does (by right of the elf-blade he restores to Myth Drannor) take over the leadership of the Akh'Faer and thus rise to a seat on the Council of Twelve. Josidiah refuses to discuss it, but many notice that he no longer walks with his magnificent cat Guenhwyvar, and some whisper he had to trade the cat's figurine of power for the blade. Of his 12 original comrades, only one survived: Onas Ulondarr, an elf bladesinger of House Ulondarr. Returning to the city married to Maira Shieldark, a human wizardess of Arabel, they bring with them four adult half-elf children (three women, one man; all rangers): Alupiira, Vaeala, Shaeia, and Rahsil.

"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask
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RichardBaker
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author

129 Posts

Posted - 24 Jan 2005 :  23:26:31  Show Profile  Visit RichardBaker's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I hadn't really thought much about Fflar and Josidiah. It seems likely they knew each other at least casually, but beyond that, I just don't know (it hasn't been really relevant in the Last Mythal, so I haven't nailed it down). In any event, Drizzt and Guen aren't directly involved in the Return, at least not in any causative manner.

I think there's an excellent chance Fflar would recognize Guen, due to Josidiah's fame around Myth Drannor long before the Weeping War--whether or not that would work in reverse, I don't know, since Fflar didn't really come into prominence until the last few weeks of the city's defense, and Guen had been "lost" by Josidiah by that point of time.

As far as the Tree of Souls, that's Elaine Cunningham's story to tell, so I've been sort of staying away from it.


quote:
Originally posted by Elven One

I originally posted this on the Wizards forums, but thats not the place for novel discussions.

I just finished reading Forsaken House, very well written. One of the best FR books I've read, can't wait for for the second book to come out. I was looking through some old material and noticed an interesting fact. The wonderous figurine Guenhwyvar currently owned by Drizzt Do'Urden, was crafted in Myth Drannor and given to Josidiah Starym. Both Fflar and Josidiah were famous and important during the last days of Myth Drannor (I'm not sure what they're relationship was, friends?). Since Fflar has been resurrected and Drizzt left Mithral Hall with Innovindel, is Drizzt, in any way, involved in the plot of the elven return to Faerun? What was the the relationship between Fflar and Josidiah? The reasoning behind my question was that if they Drizzt and Fflar ever met, I'm quite sure that Fflar and Guenhwyvar would recognize each other. Then again different authors behind these characters, you and Mr. Salvatore. I was looking over some other FR info and the Tree of Souls came up.

Question to Mr. Baker: Is Drizzt or Guenhwyvar, in any way, involved in the plot of the elven return to Faerun? What was the the relationship between Fflar and Josidiah? Is the Tree of Souls involved in the Last Mythal trilogy? Thanks!


Rich Baker
Wizards of the Coast, Inc.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
29724 Posts

Posted - 24 Jan 2005 :  23:40:03  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Page 18, Fall of Myth Drannor. Got it. Thank you, DDH, for aiming me in the right direction, and thanks to esteemed Sage Schend for offering explanation for the rumor.

Still... The idea of Josidiah trading away Guen, even for a legendary blade, just doesn't quite work for me. I've always assumed that she was somehow captured or stolen away from him, and he found the blade at another time.

I can see why some would think he traded her away, but it seems out of character for Josie.

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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 24 Jan 2005 23:44:57
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Elven One
Acolyte

5 Posts

Posted - 25 Jan 2005 :  00:48:22  Show Profile  Visit Elven One's Homepage  Send Elven One an AOL message Send Elven One a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

Page 18, Fall of Myth Drannor. Got it. Thank you, DDH, for aiming me in the right direction, and thanks to esteemed Sage Schend for offering explanation for the rumor.

Still... The idea of Josidiah trading away Guen, even for a legendary blade, just doesn't quite work for me. I've always assumed that she was somehow captured or stolen away from him, and he found the blade at another time.

I can see why some would think he traded her away, but it seems out of character for Josie.



I on the other hand find it quite believeable, just sad. Think about it, Josidiah promised to return with the Soldier's Blade to prove that not all of house Starym is worthless, he needed to redeem himself, his house, and prove to the Coronal that he is indeed worthy of his niece's hand. I figure that its most likely a trade since he has the blade and the drow end up with the figurine, for he wouldn't part with it lightly and certainly would look for it if it was taken or lost. It is indeed a difficult choice but his duty to his people, his house, and his promise to return with the blade must come first. Over centuries Guen's figurine finds its way to Menzo, etc etc, until Drizzt becomes the current owner. Thats how I imagine it happened.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
29724 Posts

Posted - 25 Jan 2005 :  01:35:39  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Elven One

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

Still... The idea of Josidiah trading away Guen, even for a legendary blade, just doesn't quite work for me. I've always assumed that she was somehow captured or stolen away from him, and he found the blade at another time.

I can see why some would think he traded her away, but it seems out of character for Josie.



I on the other hand find it quite believeable, just sad. Think about it, Josidiah promised to return with the Soldier's Blade to prove that not all of house Starym is worthless, he needed to redeem himself, his house, and prove to the Coronal that he is indeed worthy of his niece's hand. I figure that its most likely a trade since he has the blade and the drow end up with the figurine, for he wouldn't part with it lightly and certainly would look for it if it was taken or lost. It is indeed a difficult choice but his duty to his people, his house, and his promise to return with the blade must come first. Over centuries Guen's figurine finds its way to Menzo, etc etc, until Drizzt becomes the current owner. Thats how I imagine it happened.



But is it really redemption if he has to trade away a friend and ally for a sword? Ditto for striking a bargain with a drow... Josidiah was an honorable sort, so I don't see him willingly letting a noble ally fall into the hands of the drow. I think it more likely that he was captured and his possessions stripped from him, which included the onyx figurine. Some time after that, he managed to escape and also to find the blade, but by then, the figurine was long gone. Or perhaps he found the blade first, and after his escape, managed to reclaim it, but Guen had in the interim been carried away. That's how I've always seen it happening.

An even worse turn of events, which would better explain his silence: He found the blade, but was soon after captured by drow, who stripped him of his possessions. He escaped, and reclaimed everything but Guenhywyvar, who by that time had fallen into the clutches of a seriously powerful drow wizard. Josidiah tried to rescue her, but his foe forced Guen to fight Josie. Unwilling to kill Guen, and unable to counter the more powerful magic of the wizard, Josidiah was forced to retreat.

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SiriusBlack
Great Reader

USA
5517 Posts

Posted - 25 Jan 2005 :  02:46:41  Show Profile  Visit SiriusBlack's Homepage Send SiriusBlack a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Elven One
I on the other hand find it quite believeable, just sad. Think about it, Josidiah promised to return with the Soldier's Blade to prove that not all of house Starym is worthless, he needed to redeem himself, his house, and prove to the Coronal that he is indeed worthy of his niece's hand.



To me, the sad part comes upon his return, not over a loss of his figurine.

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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
29724 Posts

Posted - 25 Jan 2005 :  03:46:59  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack

To me, the sad part comes upon his return, not over a loss of his figurine.





Yeah, there is that...

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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Elven One
Acolyte

5 Posts

Posted - 25 Jan 2005 :  04:25:28  Show Profile  Visit Elven One's Homepage  Send Elven One an AOL message Send Elven One a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack

quote:
Originally posted by Elven One
I on the other hand find it quite believeable, just sad. Think about it, Josidiah promised to return with the Soldier's Blade to prove that not all of house Starym is worthless, he needed to redeem himself, his house, and prove to the Coronal that he is indeed worthy of his niece's hand.



To me, the sad part comes upon his return, not over a loss of his figurine.





In saying that I meant it as reguarding the loss of a friend, but the part with the Coronal's niece, thats classic tragedy.

Edited by - Elven One on 25 Jan 2005 04:26:50
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore

Canada
1272 Posts

Posted - 04 Feb 2005 :  00:43:49  Show Profile  Visit DDH_101's Homepage  Click to see DDH_101's MSN Messenger address Send DDH_101 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Mr. Baker, the mysterious Malkizid that is mentioned in the Forsaken House, is he the same one as the solar who was branded and thrown into the Nine Hells?

The reason I ask is because I'm looking at the Lost Empires exerpt at WotC right now and they mentioned this in the Crown Wars timeline:

-30000 The War of the Seldarine begins. Araushnee is cast down into the Demonweb Pits, where she becomes the demon-goddess Lolth. The solar Malkizid is branded and thrown down into the Nine Hells.

-10900 Malkizid, the fallen solar, becomes the secret patron of the Vyshaan lords. The Third Crown War begins. Aryvandaar, now known as the Vyshaantar Empire, invades Shantel Othreier.

-9200 The Fifth Crown War begins when the Vyshaantar Empire rebels against the proclamations of the Elven Court, which direct the elves of Aryvandaar to repudiate their Vyshaan rulers. Malkizid abandons House Vyshaan and retreats to the infernal planes.

Is this why Malkizid is allied with the daemonfey against the elves of Faerun?

"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
4745 Posts

Posted - 04 Feb 2005 :  05:18:10  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Looks like the cat's out of the bag re Malkizid ...

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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Sequestered
Acolyte

4 Posts

Posted - 19 Feb 2005 :  02:27:18  Show Profile  Visit Sequestered's Homepage Send Sequestered a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hello Mr. Baker! I love LEoF, it's amazing. I asked Ed Bonny on his thread this question, and George Krashos responded that you dealt with this part of the Netheril chapter. The Spell Mantle feat on p. 112 says that one can activate a hung spell as a spell-like ability; does that mean that it is not a single use magic item like the Contingent Spell feat in UE? That seems to make more sense, going back to the Mantle spell in Secrets of the Magister, but I would like to know what you think. Your time and help is greatly appreciated!
sequestered

You think you're hot sh*t in a champagne glass now, but you're really cold diarrhea in a Dixie cup!---The Monarch
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Ty
Learned Scribe

USA
168 Posts

Posted - 22 Feb 2005 :  13:53:47  Show Profile  Visit Ty's Homepage Send Ty a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Mr. Baker,

I can only say that I have been very impressed on both the Last Mythal novel and the LeoF. Superb work on both projects.

As for a question, I remember some time ago on the WotC boards you mentioned the Land of Alabaster Towers. Now, I've found the little reference in LoeF but now I'm even more curious.

Was this particular realm taken from Ed's original notes regarding the rise of Netheril? Is there more history to this place than is mentioned in LoeF? My primary reason for asking is that it appears from the text as though this land of wizards predated the rise of Netheril by some length of time and wasn't 'annexed' until the Netherese had discovered the World Serpent Skins. If that's the case, it certainly sets the stage for the possibility that there were more advanced human realms capable of unique and powerful magic in the North prior to the rise of Netheril. Thoughts? Tidbits not covered by NDA's?
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer

USA
1253 Posts

Posted - 22 Feb 2005 :  15:32:26  Show Profile  Visit ericlboyd's Homepage Send ericlboyd a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ty,

Since I included the details about the Land of Alabaster Towers, I'll take the liberty of replying. I built this reference off a one-line toss away by Ed in Dragon #227, page 37, the article about the Athalantan Campaign. I always thought it was a shame it wasn't used in the Netheril boxed set, so I tried to weave it into Netheril's history in a way that is consistent with FR10 - Anaurouch, pages 53-54, in the write-up of Rasilith.

So, other than those to refs, this is new Realmslore.

--Eric

--
http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/
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