| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
Foxhelm
Senior Scribe
Canada
592 Posts |
 Posted - 29 Nov 2013 : 19:41:51
|
These are unwritten rules of the Forgotten Realms to express some of the role-play elements of the game, which might need to be constructed into different rules depending on the players and the Dungeon Masters (depending on their tastes and agreement).
Rule 1: Everybody Lies
Everyone in the realms will lie. Not about everything, not about anything, not on purpose, on purpose, and so on... But with their agendas, characters will lie. Either out of ignorance, bias, part of a greater scheme, so on and so on... Both good and evil, chaotic and lawful, and everything in between.
Rule 2: Nobody is dead unless you see the body, and even then it's at least fifty/fifty they are dead.
In a world of magic (Divine, Arcane and otherwise), preventing death becomes much much easier. Reversing death goes from impossible, to possible. Where even the gods themselves can be resurrected, why is it hard to believe that mortals do not have back-up plans for injury, disability, destruction and death.
(AN: Does anyone else have any unwritten rules of (playing in) The Realms? Is this a good idea at all, or serve any purpose? Comment and/or add.
Remember to try to put all rules in Bold, and perhaps we can have subsections in either italics or underlined.)
|
Ed Greenwood! The Solution... and Cause of all the Realms Problems! |
|
|
Mapolq
Senior Scribe
Brazil
466 Posts |
|
|
Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 02 Dec 2013 : 04:27:39
|
Rule 4: What you leave behind will come back to haunt you.
Whether it's a prisoner you let go, a noble you stole from or a high priest you offended, those you leave behind will find their way back to you.
The same can be said of your exploits. Stories change as they're told and retold at each stop along the road (which is to say one town's heroes are another town's enemies, even if you've never visited the later). |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
 |
|
|
Plaguescarred
Learned Scribe
Canada
190 Posts |
Posted - 02 Dec 2013 : 11:21:23
|
Rule 5: Not everyone is uber powerful.
While there is a fair number of reknown NPCs that are high level in the Realms, the majority of people on fearun are not adventurers or high level NPCs. Most people are not spellcasters or warriors, but common folks. |
Yan
Playtester |
Edited by - Plaguescarred on 02 Dec 2013 11:25:45 |
|
|
|
Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
USA
1707 Posts |
Posted - 02 Dec 2013 : 19:17:34
|
Rule 6: Everything has a story.
Yes, even the rocks. If you have stonetell or something old-school, your spells could get rubble to talk about its days of glory as the utmost peak of the Tower of Alrhadj-al-Manshaka and how it gleamed in the sunlight everlasting, for its wizardly builder had enchanted the stones to absorb sunlight and exceed moonlight at night....
You get the idea....and while it sounds like I'm tongue-in-cheek, this is how I see the Realms when I think of it. :) (Yes, that's why my products are history-heavy and layered with more stuff untold than actually detailed....ain't I a stinker?) |
For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
|
|
|
|
Alruane
Senior Scribe
USA
434 Posts |
Posted - 02 Dec 2013 : 20:00:27
|
Rule 7: History is key.
Most people forget that these campaigns are to immerse yourselves in a setting unlike any you have ever dreamed of. History is most important for giving the realms CHARACTER. Without it, the campaign and world seem hollow and two dimensional. Structures, monuments, natural formations of the earth, etc. |
" I wonder if you are destined to be forgotten. Will your life fade in the shadow of greater beings?"
~Joneleth Irenicus
"Wisdom? My dear boy, wisdom is knowing that you do not know everything. Wisdom is realizing, a wise man ALWAYS has questions. Not answers."
~Alruane |
Edited by - Alruane on 02 Dec 2013 20:02:11 |
|
|
|
Thauramarth
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
729 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2013 : 09:59:28
|
Rule 8: No matter how powerful you think you are, always assume that there is someone, someones, or something out there that is more powerful.
Although not everyone is Uberpowerful (see Rule 5), some entities or groups are. Just because you cannot see them does not mean they cannot see you. People who want head and shoulders to stay attached to each other would do well to remember this. And remember, you have to win each and every fight to stay on top - the opposition only needs to get lucky once (barring application of Rule 2). |
|
|
|
Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2013 : 13:31:27
|
Gah! Thauramarth beat me to it! I was going to simply say, "There's always a bigger fish".
Rule 9: Nothing is ever 'done'.
If you tie-off a loose end, create at least three more plot-hooks from that.
That rule actually directly relates to #8 (because every 'boss' has another boss, etc). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
|
Edited by - Markustay on 04 Dec 2013 13:47:22 |
|
|
|
TBeholder
Great Reader
2390 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2013 : 14:25:42
|
Before Rule 1 there should be...
Rule 0: Everyone from gods to grimlocks has their own goals - even if it's merely the next dinner or amusement.
Corollary 0: Everyone's attempts to achieve said goals interfere with plans of all other sentient (in a broad sense) beings interacting with the same entities and places. Hilarity ensues more often than not. |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
|
|
|
Alruane
Senior Scribe
USA
434 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2013 : 15:33:02
|
quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
Before Rule 1 there should be...
Rule 0: Everyone from gods to grimlocks has their own goals - even if it's merely the next dinner or amusement.
Corollary 0: Everyone's attempts to achieve said goals interfere with plans of all other sentient (in a broad sense) beings interacting with the same entities and places. Hilarity ensues more often than not.
Yeah this should be a preemptive CORE rule before any rule is laid down. EVERYTHING, from deity to a small mouse has motives behind what they do. |
" I wonder if you are destined to be forgotten. Will your life fade in the shadow of greater beings?"
~Joneleth Irenicus
"Wisdom? My dear boy, wisdom is knowing that you do not know everything. Wisdom is realizing, a wise man ALWAYS has questions. Not answers."
~Alruane |
|
|
|
Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3240 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2013 : 21:22:12
|
Rule 10: Trust, though hard to come by, is worth the risk.
Yes, everyone may lie, but no one lives without touching or being touched by another person. And the greatest accomplishments cannot be completed alone, but require you to be part of something bigger. Whether that is an army invading another land or a band of adventurers clearing out a kobold warren, you only succeed by relying on those with you. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
|
|
|
The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1842 Posts |
Posted - 04 Dec 2013 : 05:02:36
|
Rule #11: Nothing is ever what it seems.
The Realms is full of magic-using people and creatures and alliances and organizations for said entities to be a part of. Be they Hapers or Zhentarim, members of the Twisted Rune or the Lords of Waterdeep, you never know who/what a person believes or serves...or whether they have access to magic to hide the truth. |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
Edited by - The Arcanamach on 04 Dec 2013 05:02:52 |
|
|
|
Plaguescarred
Learned Scribe
Canada
190 Posts |
Posted - 04 Dec 2013 : 12:32:56
|
Rule 12: Don't assume The Grand History of the Realms is set in stone.
Don't assume that everything detailed in The Grand History of the Realms will necessarily happen the same way. Accept that DMs may ignore, modify or expand upon events happened in the past, or in the future. |
Yan
Playtester |
Edited by - Plaguescarred on 04 Dec 2013 12:36:42 |
|
|
|
Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 04 Dec 2013 : 13:45:20
|
#10 sounds more like 'moral advice' then a rule (sorry Ashe)
Rule #13: Things change...
...all the time. If you read something in a book, it may be true as of this moment, it may have been true twenty years ago, or it may be true within a decade or so. Unless the information is tied directly to a plot a DM or author is using, it can be taken with a grain of salt. Do not be a slave to the canon; you don't need to work for it, make it work for you. I really wish some authors would remember this - a 1000-year old Cormyr shouldn't look exactly like today's Cormyr. It is possible for folks to stick to canon to the point of lunacy (and how we wind up with 2 Oboulds, 2 Wulgreths, etc, etc). Just keep in mind history marches on.
Loving on #12 above - I try to take everything we read as it was originally meant to be read - as stories told by Elminster (and others) to Ed Greenwood (and others), and then retold to us. They are 'facts', but only in-as-much as the current understanding allows.
For example, RW history changes all the time. Many things I learned in school as 'hard facts' are no longer true. History didn't change - our understanding of things did. Why should a fantasy setting be held to a higher standard then the real world? Not only are people 'misinformed' or have drawn the wrong conclusions, but in the case of the Realms (and sometimes even RW - damn you, Betsy Ross!) PEOPLE LIE!!!! (and now we are right back to Rule #1)
Hell, Khelben made a career out of misinformation... 
*Grammar Correction |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
|
Edited by - Markustay on 05 Dec 2013 13:28:19 |
|
|
|
Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3240 Posts |
Posted - 04 Dec 2013 : 13:59:58
|
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
#10 sounds more like 'moral advice' then a rule (sorry Ashe)
True, but we are talking about Role-Play aspects of the game. There are settings where backstabbing and character distrust is the norm and encouraged, but I found that the opposite is true for Forgotten Realms games. When playing in the Realms, I find that even rogues are more hesitant to steal from their fellow adventurers...  |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
|
|
|
Alruane
Senior Scribe
USA
434 Posts |
Posted - 05 Dec 2013 : 14:08:30
|
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
#10 sounds more like 'moral advice' then a rule (sorry Ashe)
Rule #13: Things change...
...all the time. If you read something in a book, it may be true as of this moment, it may have been true twenty years ago, or it may be true within a decade or so. Unless the information is tied directly to a plot a DM or author is using, it can be taken with a grain of salt. Do not be a slave to the canon; you don't need to work for it, make it work for you. I really wish some authors would remember this - a 1000-year old Cormyr shouldn't look exactly like today's Cormyr. It is possible for folks to stick to canon to the point of lunacy (and how we wind up with 2 Oboulds, 2 Wulgreths, etc, etc). Just keep in mind history marches on.
Loving on #12 above - I try to take everything we read as it was originally meant to be read - as stories told by Elminster (and others) to Ed Greenwood (and others), and then retold to us. They are 'facts', but only in-as-much as the current understanding allows.
For example, RW history changes all the time. Many things I learned in school as 'hard facts' are no longer true. History didn't change - our understanding of things did. Why should a fantasy setting be held to a higher standard then the real world? Not only are people 'misinformed' or have drawn the wrong conclusions, but in the case of the Realms (and sometimes even RW - damn you, Betsy Ross!) PEOPLE LIE!!!! (and now we are right back to Rule #1)
Hell, Khelben made a career out of misinformation...
*Grammar Correction
This rule is especially important as well! |
" I wonder if you are destined to be forgotten. Will your life fade in the shadow of greater beings?"
~Joneleth Irenicus
"Wisdom? My dear boy, wisdom is knowing that you do not know everything. Wisdom is realizing, a wise man ALWAYS has questions. Not answers."
~Alruane |
|
|
|
Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
USA
1707 Posts |
Posted - 05 Dec 2013 : 18:06:05
|
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Hell, Khelben made a career out of misinformation...
Indeed.
And so did all 18 of his aliases and cover identities under which he wrote and published historical tracts and "debunking" treatises.
Steven |
For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
|
|
|
|
Mapolq
Senior Scribe
Brazil
466 Posts |
|
|
sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11701 Posts |
Posted - 05 Dec 2013 : 21:47:12
|
| Rule #14 - If the Seven Sisters are involved, there will be nudity |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
|
|
|
Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 05 Dec 2013 : 22:18:21
|
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Rule #14 - If the Seven Sisters are involved, there will be thigh-high leather boots and naught else
Fixed that for you.
|
Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
|
|
|
Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 06 Dec 2013 : 14:54:12
|
EDIT: Sorry this post was so long, and a bit off-topic. It just hit a particular pet-peeve with me.
quote:
Originally posted by Mapolq
I'm not a fan of the "unreliable narrator" concept. I mean, it's okay to do a book that way, but using that a lot seems to me like digging yourself a way out of any continuity issues, which amounts to saying continuity isn't really important.<snip>
On the other hand, religiously sticking to canon - especially downright BAD canon - can (and does) lead to an awful mess. I'm with you in that I wouldn't want it over-used (the way comics do), but I would also rather see them simply tweak the lore, then provide some sort of highly improbable solution (you know, like two Wulgreths that hate Karsus both turn into liches and wind up living in The Dire Woods... YECH!)
There is a point at which keeping every last bit of canon is a bad idea, because we wind-up keeping too many bad ideas. Just IMO, of course. Not saying they should reboot the heck out of everything (you know, like how the 4e cosmology did), but little tweaks here and there to fix stuff is okay. I think they go a bit overboard with the 'respect for previous lore', sometimes. Yes, everything can be fixed (even crap like Swords of the Iron Legion, or Nightmare Keep, just to name 2 that jumped right to mind), but sometimes we need to stop and ask, "should it stay, as is?" With the right tweaks, even bad lore can be spun into something halfway decent, but you may have to file down the edges to get it to fit properly.
The only problem is where to draw that line? Who is qualified to make that decision - tweak it, or keep it whole-cloth?
I realize somethings are just TOO major to fudge (like The Tree of Souls... sigh), and it has to be fixed (after all, you can't exactly say, "No, that was a different Tree of Souls!" LOL), but small stuff, like someone's name - whats with that? Why keep having duplicate named characters, when its so damn obvious its a continuity glitch? In some cases it makes sense (every son of Obould is named Obould... kinda like George Foreman), but not every single time, and not when two characters have duplicate back-stories and yet are completely unrelated.
This is why I was a fan of the 'soft reboot' - every single bit of canon remains the same as it was the first time around, unless otherwise re-written. That shouldn't ruffle any writer's feathers, because everything they've already written is still possible within that model. We don't have to have Superman's parents become evil all of a sudden, nor have Spock yell "Khan!" instead of Kirk, but we could just 'wash away' all that silliness we got stuck with, call a glitch a glitch, and move on.
Paizo does that, BTW. I can't think of too many examples, but I've seen them tweak something (Irori's religion) to fix things, and also flat-out make changes (dates of stuff that happened in Darkmoon Vale). Sometimes you just gotta say, we ****ed up, sorry - this is how it really is. Its a fantasy setting, we'll get over it. I'd rather see the continuity ironed-out, then have 'patches' all over the place. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
|
Edited by - Markustay on 06 Dec 2013 14:57:28 |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
|
|
Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 06 Dec 2013 : 17:01:07
|
quote:
Originally posted by Mapolq
I'm not a fan of the "unreliable narrator" concept. I mean, it's okay to do a book that way, but using that a lot seems to me like digging yourself a way out of any continuity issues, which amounts to saying continuity isn't really important.
Sure, lots of things can be re-interpreted. We've seen and are still going to see plenty of revisions to what happened in WWII. But I doubt any of them will read like "in fact, no Germans actually invaded the Soviet Union in 42-44, it was a fabricated story...". At least no serious ones.
The "unreliable narrator" concept is an essential tool that is necessary for DMs, players, authors, and designers. It's necessary on multiple levels, especially for continuity.
On the surface, I'm sure it can seem like a fuzzy thing used to fiddle with what's "known" about a setting, but like any tool it can either be abused or utilized with finesse and essential purpose.
Used well, it actually protects the integrity of the canon world while also giving it depth. When you flat-out state something is true, DMs and readers must treat that fact as true - such that it applies across all campaigns everywhere. If a DM decides to veer from that revealed truth, then they are diverging from the "real" Realms and are separating their campaigns from the living canon world. Too much divergence, and you're shifting into home-brew. And that's fine, but it's an alternate world.
With an unreliable narrator "fact" (perhaps from a sage's belief and research in town X), players aren't handed down information from "on high" but are rather roleplaying in order to obtain information. And it might be true, or it might be something they need to pursue further. That bolsters the game, and game play, without forcing people to accept facts they may not fully like or want. Plus, you aren't diverging from canon and separating your game from the larger canon world. Players still feel they're part of the "real" Realms even if your game diverges from other DMs' games. That's more important than you might think, even if it seems like chicanery.
Additionally, it's an awesome tool for designers and authors. When they're not held to a specific revealed truth, they can bend and twist interpretations to enhance what's "believed" with better and more amazing ideas. Things can be changed, reinterpreted, enhanced, without ever needing to use an actual retcon. Aren't reinterpretations and making players think better than flat-out retconning things? You might even have to retcon many things in order to achieve a desired result. Then, later, if you want to undo the new thing, or change its interpretation, you can... also without an actual retcon. It makes things more like real life, enhancing immersion and believability, when NPCs and PCs in game are forced to re-think what they've known. The alternative is a line or two in a reference book, in black and white, which cannot be argued. Facts make it easy, furthermore, for players to metagame. Even if they don't want to metagame it's always there in their minds as a basic "truth" of the setting. It's also fodder for rules lawyers.
When authors and designers are faced with 3rd person narrative facts, they're locked to that interpretation. And that's horribly bad because at the core of both the novels and the game, this is fantasy. It's essential to have that sense of uncertainty and magic both when you're playing. Certainty murders awe and surprise, which are necessary for good fiction and interesting game play. If you know that monster X can be easily defeated with water, or if magic is known to work in a very specific way, then it can't be any other way.
Personally, I hate that we know as much as we do about the gods and the outer planes. There's very little, currently, that is mysterious about the divine. You might even say that becoming a deity actually narrows a being's perspective, because of what we know from 3rd person reveals about the gods and how they work. But unless I want to diverge my Realms (and I have) and take my players away from that sense of being in the "real" Realms, I have to work with the handed-down facts that limit and constrain me as a DM.
Facts narrow and constrain possibilities, and limit creativity. Unreliable narration is a fantastic tool that engenders possibility, creativity, and wonder.
|
Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
Edited by - Therise on 06 Dec 2013 18:51:00 |
|
|
|
Alruane
Senior Scribe
USA
434 Posts |
Posted - 06 Dec 2013 : 18:00:18
|
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Rule 15: Don't tell Volo anything! 
Seriously, don't. It's just common sense, right Wooly? Haha |
" I wonder if you are destined to be forgotten. Will your life fade in the shadow of greater beings?"
~Joneleth Irenicus
"Wisdom? My dear boy, wisdom is knowing that you do not know everything. Wisdom is realizing, a wise man ALWAYS has questions. Not answers."
~Alruane |
|
|
|
Mapolq
Senior Scribe
Brazil
466 Posts |
Posted - 06 Dec 2013 : 20:30:59
|
Markus & Therise: I had a big post in my mind here, but we should probably take it to another topic if you folks want (and I'm totally down for it  ).
But in case you don't, I'll just ask that we agree to disagree, and point out that, as I said, I don't think using the unreliable narrator is bad per se. But there's a big difference between getting across the notion that "you shouldn't expect the Realms to be always this way, exactly", and "you shouldn't expect the Realms to be like this, at all, really."
Edit: see my Rule 3. Everything can happen, it doesn't mean it will, or should.
Edit2: Therise, I just read your sig, and the only reason I didn't LOL was because my dad is having a nap in the same room. Water under the Boareskyr Bridge indeed. |
Never sleep under the jackfruit tree.
Tales of Moonsea - A Neverwinter Nights 2 Persistent World. Check out our website at http://www.talesofmoonsea.com and our video trailer at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=am304WqOAAo&feature=youtu.be, as well as our thread here at Candlekeep: http://www.forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=12955
My campaign thread: http://www.forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=16447 |
Edited by - Mapolq on 06 Dec 2013 20:45:43 |
|
|
|
Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 06 Dec 2013 : 22:59:51
|
quote:
Originally posted by Mapolq
Markus & Therise: I had a big post in my mind here, but we should probably take it to another topic if you folks want (and I'm totally down for it ).
Sure, I'm always up for discussion if you want to move a new topic to general or something. If not, that's okay too. I'm good either way.
|
Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
Edited by - Therise on 06 Dec 2013 23:03:19 |
|
|
|
Alruane
Senior Scribe
USA
434 Posts |
Posted - 06 Dec 2013 : 23:16:09
|
| This topic was a good idea, loving the rules! |
" I wonder if you are destined to be forgotten. Will your life fade in the shadow of greater beings?"
~Joneleth Irenicus
"Wisdom? My dear boy, wisdom is knowing that you do not know everything. Wisdom is realizing, a wise man ALWAYS has questions. Not answers."
~Alruane |
|
|
|
genebateman
Acolyte
23 Posts |
Posted - 06 Dec 2013 : 23:41:38
|
rule 16
the more innocent someone looks the more dangerous that person is |
|
|
|
Jergals Spare Scythe
Acolyte
USA
23 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2013 : 22:49:57
|
Rule #17: Every barkeep in Faerun is a former high-level fighter.
What else is he going to do with that +3 merciful club of stunning under his bar? Hit sober people? |
"Seek to bring order to the chaos of life, for in death there is finality and a fixedness of state. Be ready for death for it is at hand and uncompromising."
Excerpt from Jergal's Dogma, Faiths and Pantheons, page 99 |
|
|
|
Bladewind
Master of Realmslore
Netherlands
1280 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2013 : 23:47:22
|
Rule #18: Expect to find intelligent life plotting your demise right now... albeit 1000 paces under your feet, above you in the heavens or behind that curtain there....
There are a truly staggering array of forces, both monstrous and intelligent, waiting the opportunity to conquer the resources of demihuman kind. DM's can spring any encounter from nearly any source book and can get away with it easy by weaving new story threats into a campaign. Actually, I encourage DM's secretly running multiple adventures at once... |
My campaign sketches
Druidic Groves
Creature Feature: Giant Spiders |
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
|
|
The Unwritten Rules of the Realms
