| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Foxhelm |
Posted - 29 Nov 2013 : 19:41:51
These are unwritten rules of the Forgotten Realms to express some of the role-play elements of the game, which might need to be constructed into different rules depending on the players and the Dungeon Masters (depending on their tastes and agreement).
Rule 1: Everybody Lies
Everyone in the realms will lie. Not about everything, not about anything, not on purpose, on purpose, and so on... But with their agendas, characters will lie. Either out of ignorance, bias, part of a greater scheme, so on and so on... Both good and evil, chaotic and lawful, and everything in between.
Rule 2: Nobody is dead unless you see the body, and even then it's at least fifty/fifty they are dead.
In a world of magic (Divine, Arcane and otherwise), preventing death becomes much much easier. Reversing death goes from impossible, to possible. Where even the gods themselves can be resurrected, why is it hard to believe that mortals do not have back-up plans for injury, disability, destruction and death.
(AN: Does anyone else have any unwritten rules of (playing in) The Realms? Is this a good idea at all, or serve any purpose? Comment and/or add.
Remember to try to put all rules in Bold, and perhaps we can have subsections in either italics or underlined.) |
| 29 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Bladewind |
Posted - 09 Dec 2013 : 23:47:22
Rule #18: Expect to find intelligent life plotting your demise right now... albeit 1000 paces under your feet, above you in the heavens or behind that curtain there....
There are a truly staggering array of forces, both monstrous and intelligent, waiting the opportunity to conquer the resources of demihuman kind. DM's can spring any encounter from nearly any source book and can get away with it easy by weaving new story threats into a campaign. Actually, I encourage DM's secretly running multiple adventures at once... |
| Jergals Spare Scythe |
Posted - 09 Dec 2013 : 22:49:57
Rule #17: Every barkeep in Faerun is a former high-level fighter.
What else is he going to do with that +3 merciful club of stunning under his bar? Hit sober people? |
| genebateman |
Posted - 06 Dec 2013 : 23:41:38
rule 16
the more innocent someone looks the more dangerous that person is |
| Alruane |
Posted - 06 Dec 2013 : 23:16:09
This topic was a good idea, loving the rules! |
| Therise |
Posted - 06 Dec 2013 : 22:59:51
quote:
Originally posted by Mapolq
Markus & Therise: I had a big post in my mind here, but we should probably take it to another topic if you folks want (and I'm totally down for it  ).
Sure, I'm always up for discussion if you want to move a new topic to general or something. If not, that's okay too. I'm good either way.
|
| Mapolq |
Posted - 06 Dec 2013 : 20:30:59
Markus & Therise: I had a big post in my mind here, but we should probably take it to another topic if you folks want (and I'm totally down for it ).
But in case you don't, I'll just ask that we agree to disagree, and point out that, as I said, I don't think using the unreliable narrator is bad per se. But there's a big difference between getting across the notion that "you shouldn't expect the Realms to be always this way, exactly", and "you shouldn't expect the Realms to be like this, at all, really."
Edit: see my Rule 3. Everything can happen, it doesn't mean it will, or should.
Edit2: Therise, I just read your sig, and the only reason I didn't LOL was because my dad is having a nap in the same room. Water under the Boareskyr Bridge indeed.  |
| Alruane |
Posted - 06 Dec 2013 : 18:00:18
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Rule 15: Don't tell Volo anything! 
Seriously, don't. It's just common sense, right Wooly? Haha |
| Therise |
Posted - 06 Dec 2013 : 17:01:07
quote:
Originally posted by Mapolq
I'm not a fan of the "unreliable narrator" concept. I mean, it's okay to do a book that way, but using that a lot seems to me like digging yourself a way out of any continuity issues, which amounts to saying continuity isn't really important.
Sure, lots of things can be re-interpreted. We've seen and are still going to see plenty of revisions to what happened in WWII. But I doubt any of them will read like "in fact, no Germans actually invaded the Soviet Union in 42-44, it was a fabricated story...". At least no serious ones.
The "unreliable narrator" concept is an essential tool that is necessary for DMs, players, authors, and designers. It's necessary on multiple levels, especially for continuity.
On the surface, I'm sure it can seem like a fuzzy thing used to fiddle with what's "known" about a setting, but like any tool it can either be abused or utilized with finesse and essential purpose.
Used well, it actually protects the integrity of the canon world while also giving it depth. When you flat-out state something is true, DMs and readers must treat that fact as true - such that it applies across all campaigns everywhere. If a DM decides to veer from that revealed truth, then they are diverging from the "real" Realms and are separating their campaigns from the living canon world. Too much divergence, and you're shifting into home-brew. And that's fine, but it's an alternate world.
With an unreliable narrator "fact" (perhaps from a sage's belief and research in town X), players aren't handed down information from "on high" but are rather roleplaying in order to obtain information. And it might be true, or it might be something they need to pursue further. That bolsters the game, and game play, without forcing people to accept facts they may not fully like or want. Plus, you aren't diverging from canon and separating your game from the larger canon world. Players still feel they're part of the "real" Realms even if your game diverges from other DMs' games. That's more important than you might think, even if it seems like chicanery.
Additionally, it's an awesome tool for designers and authors. When they're not held to a specific revealed truth, they can bend and twist interpretations to enhance what's "believed" with better and more amazing ideas. Things can be changed, reinterpreted, enhanced, without ever needing to use an actual retcon. Aren't reinterpretations and making players think better than flat-out retconning things? You might even have to retcon many things in order to achieve a desired result. Then, later, if you want to undo the new thing, or change its interpretation, you can... also without an actual retcon. It makes things more like real life, enhancing immersion and believability, when NPCs and PCs in game are forced to re-think what they've known. The alternative is a line or two in a reference book, in black and white, which cannot be argued. Facts make it easy, furthermore, for players to metagame. Even if they don't want to metagame it's always there in their minds as a basic "truth" of the setting. It's also fodder for rules lawyers.
When authors and designers are faced with 3rd person narrative facts, they're locked to that interpretation. And that's horribly bad because at the core of both the novels and the game, this is fantasy. It's essential to have that sense of uncertainty and magic both when you're playing. Certainty murders awe and surprise, which are necessary for good fiction and interesting game play. If you know that monster X can be easily defeated with water, or if magic is known to work in a very specific way, then it can't be any other way.
Personally, I hate that we know as much as we do about the gods and the outer planes. There's very little, currently, that is mysterious about the divine. You might even say that becoming a deity actually narrows a being's perspective, because of what we know from 3rd person reveals about the gods and how they work. But unless I want to diverge my Realms (and I have) and take my players away from that sense of being in the "real" Realms, I have to work with the handed-down facts that limit and constrain me as a DM.
Facts narrow and constrain possibilities, and limit creativity. Unreliable narration is a fantastic tool that engenders possibility, creativity, and wonder.
|
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 06 Dec 2013 : 16:36:11
Rule 15: Don't tell Volo anything! |
| Markustay |
Posted - 06 Dec 2013 : 14:54:12
EDIT: Sorry this post was so long, and a bit off-topic. It just hit a particular pet-peeve with me.
quote:
Originally posted by Mapolq
I'm not a fan of the "unreliable narrator" concept. I mean, it's okay to do a book that way, but using that a lot seems to me like digging yourself a way out of any continuity issues, which amounts to saying continuity isn't really important.<snip>
On the other hand, religiously sticking to canon - especially downright BAD canon - can (and does) lead to an awful mess. I'm with you in that I wouldn't want it over-used (the way comics do), but I would also rather see them simply tweak the lore, then provide some sort of highly improbable solution (you know, like two Wulgreths that hate Karsus both turn into liches and wind up living in The Dire Woods... YECH!)
There is a point at which keeping every last bit of canon is a bad idea, because we wind-up keeping too many bad ideas. Just IMO, of course. Not saying they should reboot the heck out of everything (you know, like how the 4e cosmology did), but little tweaks here and there to fix stuff is okay. I think they go a bit overboard with the 'respect for previous lore', sometimes. Yes, everything can be fixed (even crap like Swords of the Iron Legion, or Nightmare Keep, just to name 2 that jumped right to mind), but sometimes we need to stop and ask, "should it stay, as is?" With the right tweaks, even bad lore can be spun into something halfway decent, but you may have to file down the edges to get it to fit properly.
The only problem is where to draw that line? Who is qualified to make that decision - tweak it, or keep it whole-cloth?
I realize somethings are just TOO major to fudge (like The Tree of Souls... sigh), and it has to be fixed (after all, you can't exactly say, "No, that was a different Tree of Souls!" LOL), but small stuff, like someone's name - whats with that? Why keep having duplicate named characters, when its so damn obvious its a continuity glitch? In some cases it makes sense (every son of Obould is named Obould... kinda like George Foreman), but not every single time, and not when two characters have duplicate back-stories and yet are completely unrelated.
This is why I was a fan of the 'soft reboot' - every single bit of canon remains the same as it was the first time around, unless otherwise re-written. That shouldn't ruffle any writer's feathers, because everything they've already written is still possible within that model. We don't have to have Superman's parents become evil all of a sudden, nor have Spock yell "Khan!" instead of Kirk, but we could just 'wash away' all that silliness we got stuck with, call a glitch a glitch, and move on.
Paizo does that, BTW. I can't think of too many examples, but I've seen them tweak something (Irori's religion) to fix things, and also flat-out make changes (dates of stuff that happened in Darkmoon Vale). Sometimes you just gotta say, we ****ed up, sorry - this is how it really is. Its a fantasy setting, we'll get over it. I'd rather see the continuity ironed-out, then have 'patches' all over the place. |
| Therise |
Posted - 05 Dec 2013 : 22:18:21
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Rule #14 - If the Seven Sisters are involved, there will be thigh-high leather boots and naught else
Fixed that for you.
|
| sleyvas |
Posted - 05 Dec 2013 : 21:47:12
Rule #14 - If the Seven Sisters are involved, there will be nudity |
| Mapolq |
Posted - 05 Dec 2013 : 21:16:07
I'm not a fan of the "unreliable narrator" concept. I mean, it's okay to do a book that way, but using that a lot seems to me like digging yourself a way out of any continuity issues, which amounts to saying continuity isn't really important.
Sure, lots of things can be re-interpreted. We've seen and are still going to see plenty of revisions to what happened in WWII. But I doubt any of them will read like "in fact, no Germans actually invaded the Soviet Union in 42-44, it was a fabricated story...". At least no serious ones. |
| Steven Schend |
Posted - 05 Dec 2013 : 18:06:05
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Hell, Khelben made a career out of misinformation... 
Indeed.
And so did all 18 of his aliases and cover identities under which he wrote and published historical tracts and "debunking" treatises.
Steven |
| Alruane |
Posted - 05 Dec 2013 : 14:08:30
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
#10 sounds more like 'moral advice' then a rule (sorry Ashe)
Rule #13: Things change...
...all the time. If you read something in a book, it may be true as of this moment, it may have been true twenty years ago, or it may be true within a decade or so. Unless the information is tied directly to a plot a DM or author is using, it can be taken with a grain of salt. Do not be a slave to the canon; you don't need to work for it, make it work for you. I really wish some authors would remember this - a 1000-year old Cormyr shouldn't look exactly like today's Cormyr. It is possible for folks to stick to canon to the point of lunacy (and how we wind up with 2 Oboulds, 2 Wulgreths, etc, etc). Just keep in mind history marches on.
Loving on #12 above - I try to take everything we read as it was originally meant to be read - as stories told by Elminster (and others) to Ed Greenwood (and others), and then retold to us. They are 'facts', but only in-as-much as the current understanding allows.
For example, RW history changes all the time. Many things I learned in school as 'hard facts' are no longer true. History didn't change - our understanding of things did. Why should a fantasy setting be held to a higher standard then the real world? Not only are people 'misinformed' or have drawn the wrong conclusions, but in the case of the Realms (and sometimes even RW - damn you, Betsy Ross!) PEOPLE LIE!!!! (and now we are right back to Rule #1)
Hell, Khelben made a career out of misinformation...
*Grammar Correction
This rule is especially important as well! |
| Ashe Ravenheart |
Posted - 04 Dec 2013 : 13:59:58
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
#10 sounds more like 'moral advice' then a rule (sorry Ashe)
True, but we are talking about Role-Play aspects of the game. There are settings where backstabbing and character distrust is the norm and encouraged, but I found that the opposite is true for Forgotten Realms games. When playing in the Realms, I find that even rogues are more hesitant to steal from their fellow adventurers... |
| Markustay |
Posted - 04 Dec 2013 : 13:45:20
#10 sounds more like 'moral advice' then a rule (sorry Ashe)
Rule #13: Things change...
...all the time. If you read something in a book, it may be true as of this moment, it may have been true twenty years ago, or it may be true within a decade or so. Unless the information is tied directly to a plot a DM or author is using, it can be taken with a grain of salt. Do not be a slave to the canon; you don't need to work for it, make it work for you. I really wish some authors would remember this - a 1000-year old Cormyr shouldn't look exactly like today's Cormyr. It is possible for folks to stick to canon to the point of lunacy (and how we wind up with 2 Oboulds, 2 Wulgreths, etc, etc). Just keep in mind history marches on.
Loving on #12 above - I try to take everything we read as it was originally meant to be read - as stories told by Elminster (and others) to Ed Greenwood (and others), and then retold to us. They are 'facts', but only in-as-much as the current understanding allows.
For example, RW history changes all the time. Many things I learned in school as 'hard facts' are no longer true. History didn't change - our understanding of things did. Why should a fantasy setting be held to a higher standard then the real world? Not only are people 'misinformed' or have drawn the wrong conclusions, but in the case of the Realms (and sometimes even RW - damn you, Betsy Ross!) PEOPLE LIE!!!! (and now we are right back to Rule #1)
Hell, Khelben made a career out of misinformation...
*Grammar Correction |
| Plaguescarred |
Posted - 04 Dec 2013 : 12:32:56
Rule 12: Don't assume The Grand History of the Realms is set in stone.
Don't assume that everything detailed in The Grand History of the Realms will necessarily happen the same way. Accept that DMs may ignore, modify or expand upon events happened in the past, or in the future. |
| The Arcanamach |
Posted - 04 Dec 2013 : 05:02:36
Rule #11: Nothing is ever what it seems.
The Realms is full of magic-using people and creatures and alliances and organizations for said entities to be a part of. Be they Hapers or Zhentarim, members of the Twisted Rune or the Lords of Waterdeep, you never know who/what a person believes or serves...or whether they have access to magic to hide the truth. |
| Ashe Ravenheart |
Posted - 03 Dec 2013 : 21:22:12
Rule 10: Trust, though hard to come by, is worth the risk.
Yes, everyone may lie, but no one lives without touching or being touched by another person. And the greatest accomplishments cannot be completed alone, but require you to be part of something bigger. Whether that is an army invading another land or a band of adventurers clearing out a kobold warren, you only succeed by relying on those with you. |
| Alruane |
Posted - 03 Dec 2013 : 15:33:02
quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
Before Rule 1 there should be...
Rule 0: Everyone from gods to grimlocks has their own goals - even if it's merely the next dinner or amusement.
Corollary 0: Everyone's attempts to achieve said goals interfere with plans of all other sentient (in a broad sense) beings interacting with the same entities and places. Hilarity ensues more often than not.
Yeah this should be a preemptive CORE rule before any rule is laid down. EVERYTHING, from deity to a small mouse has motives behind what they do. |
| TBeholder |
Posted - 03 Dec 2013 : 14:25:42
Before Rule 1 there should be...
Rule 0: Everyone from gods to grimlocks has their own goals - even if it's merely the next dinner or amusement.
Corollary 0: Everyone's attempts to achieve said goals interfere with plans of all other sentient (in a broad sense) beings interacting with the same entities and places. Hilarity ensues more often than not. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 03 Dec 2013 : 13:31:27
Gah! Thauramarth beat me to it! I was going to simply say, "There's always a bigger fish".
Rule 9: Nothing is ever 'done'.
If you tie-off a loose end, create at least three more plot-hooks from that.
That rule actually directly relates to #8 (because every 'boss' has another boss, etc). |
| Thauramarth |
Posted - 03 Dec 2013 : 09:59:28
Rule 8: No matter how powerful you think you are, always assume that there is someone, someones, or something out there that is more powerful.
Although not everyone is Uberpowerful (see Rule 5), some entities or groups are. Just because you cannot see them does not mean they cannot see you. People who want head and shoulders to stay attached to each other would do well to remember this. And remember, you have to win each and every fight to stay on top - the opposition only needs to get lucky once (barring application of Rule 2). |
| Alruane |
Posted - 02 Dec 2013 : 20:00:27
Rule 7: History is key.
Most people forget that these campaigns are to immerse yourselves in a setting unlike any you have ever dreamed of. History is most important for giving the realms CHARACTER. Without it, the campaign and world seem hollow and two dimensional. Structures, monuments, natural formations of the earth, etc. |
| Steven Schend |
Posted - 02 Dec 2013 : 19:17:34
Rule 6: Everything has a story.
Yes, even the rocks. If you have stonetell or something old-school, your spells could get rubble to talk about its days of glory as the utmost peak of the Tower of Alrhadj-al-Manshaka and how it gleamed in the sunlight everlasting, for its wizardly builder had enchanted the stones to absorb sunlight and exceed moonlight at night....
You get the idea....and while it sounds like I'm tongue-in-cheek, this is how I see the Realms when I think of it. :) (Yes, that's why my products are history-heavy and layered with more stuff untold than actually detailed....ain't I a stinker?) |
| Plaguescarred |
Posted - 02 Dec 2013 : 11:21:23
Rule 5: Not everyone is uber powerful.
While there is a fair number of reknown NPCs that are high level in the Realms, the majority of people on fearun are not adventurers or high level NPCs. Most people are not spellcasters or warriors, but common folks. |
| Jeremy Grenemyer |
Posted - 02 Dec 2013 : 04:27:39
Rule 4: What you leave behind will come back to haunt you.
Whether it's a prisoner you let go, a noble you stole from or a high priest you offended, those you leave behind will find their way back to you.
The same can be said of your exploits. Stories change as they're told and retold at each stop along the road (which is to say one town's heroes are another town's enemies, even if you've never visited the later). |
| Mapolq |
Posted - 29 Nov 2013 : 19:47:41
Rule 3: Everything is possible. That does not mean anyone can actually do it now.
There are no real limits to what can exist in the Forgotten Realms. Too powerful, wrong style, makes no sense? These are good tools for keeping stuff consistent and fun, yes, but, in principle, avoid the word "impossible". Which, as said above, doesn't mean it's going to be done. Ever. Necessarily. |
|
|
