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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7971 Posts |
 Posted - 24 Nov 2010 : 07:04:01
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| Yeah, dyslexic magic items are the best. My Typo magics were fairly popular, too. People like punny. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2010 : 15:34:36
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So NO-ONE remembers where the info on Mushroom rings is? I'm 95% certain it was FR and not core. Hmmmm....
A 'Feyglade' is a term I coined (although I probably read it somewhere a long time ago), that is a more setting-friendly term then 'Terminus Points'. The idea is that it is just a larger version of a mushroom circle (which do exist in canon... IF I can find the damn things again).
Whereas 'Mushroom Rings' are small areas and typically used by tiny/small fey, the larger Feyglade version would be more along the lines of a Stone Circle - a gathering place for certain types (in this case fey) to access the energies of the Feywild. VERY large version would the Crossroads (which I mentioned above), and would have a powerful gaurdian attached (Hro'nyewachu is one such Gaurdian in Akhrasut Neth in The Wastes).
In order to put all of these concepts into rules, the easiest thing to do is link them to similar rules, and fortunately we have those in the form of Earthnodes: Node magic is covered in Ch.4 in Underdark. If we build on that, then all we are really doing is applying Fantasy-ish names to the power-levels of the place of power (node). A level 1 fey node would be a Mushroom Ring, a level 2 would be a feyglade, a level 3 would be a Druid-Circle (usually defined by stone Plinths), level 4 would be Faery Mound (not to be confused with the canonical Fey Mound -MoF pg.43 - which is really a Fey Barrow), level 5 would be a Feywood (usually a small patch of 'enchanted forest' within a much larger wood), and a level 6 would be a Wyldshire (tentative name) - these are all just springboards to build from.
Each is a conduit that allows the passage of energies and objects from the Feywild. Travel in the other direction - from the Prime material to the Feywild - must use a key. Fey themselves are keys, as are nearly any item crafted by them (these Conduits are keyed to anything with traces of 'Fey' on them). The portal remains open for a short time (dependent upon many factors) after it is opened, and cannot be closed prematurely (which is how mortals occasionally follow fey back to their world.)
They are both Gates and places of power (literally, the Gates suffer from 'leakage'). I have a whisper of an idea about them - that they were created by the Fey to Mimic Divine Pools (Moonwells, Pools of..., sacred wells, etc) - the Fey have found many ways to aspire to the power of the gods.
I will build on this... have to reboot now... |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 24 Nov 2010 16:31:57 |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2010 : 17:02:00
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NP - As a Wiccan, you probably notice I borrow heavily from Goddess/Pagan lore (after all, isn't 'folklore' where all of this comes from? Even the world's mythologies derive from earlier stories handed-down).
The funny thing is, the more I research each topic, I find I am seeing a universal thread running through the background of everything - one created by Ed Greenwood. Everything from my looking for the Netherease 'Gur' yesterday (amazing how much I missed the first time I read through those 1e sources), to my hunt for Dwarvish words. Ed is always hinting at something.
Even that last post, when I mentioned the Moonwells triggered another thought - Pools of Radiance, Pools of Darkness, and pools of Twilight. The three worlds, just like in my model: The Heavens, the Hells, and the Material World. Three forms of power - Radiant, Umbral, and Elemental. Fey magic becomes the veil between the world and the Divine, and Shadow becomes the Miasma between the world and the Diabolic. Arcane is where the two energies - Light & Darkness - blend together, and combine with the elements of the Material Plane. Normally, handling that 'mixture' of potent energies would kill a mortal, so we have the Weave, which 'filters' those energies and provides a stable interface.
It really is all coming together - I even re-thought my ideas about Mythals and Mythallars. Note that BOTH types of super-mantle (because that's what they are) can be traced back to the creator races? The Elves migrated from Faerie (ruled by the Fey/La'Shay), and the Netherease learned their magic from the writings of the Ba'etith, which comprised the Sarrukh, Aeriee, and Batrachi. That means that the magic behind both of those powerful magical fields goes 'deeper' the the Weave (in other words, Epic/High magic).
We now know, thanks to 4e lore, that the Creator races existed before the War of Light & darkness, and therefor there magic was ALL Weave-less!
And here's the funny part - just before Gray enlightened me about that section in the Player's Guide(?), I had started to come to these very conclusions myself, and alluded to them in the now-lost uber-post I wrote regarding Toril's mythos. Anyone who thinks the 4e lore changed stuff regarding the ancient past should really re-read the original 1e and early 2e lore, most of which written by Ed. Its all there, in black and white, including the cataclysm that changed the world.
I made a joke a LONG time ago on the WotC boards about a 'dark moon' that no one could see.... it appears I was on the right rack all along (accept you can't see it, because it was destroyed). There are still pieces of it left, though... all you need do is look up into the night sky. 
The War of Light & Darkness DID occur during the time of the Creator Races, and NOT at the 'beginning of time', because it was all spelled-out from the beginning, in Savage Frontier and later in The North. The cataclysm that lead to their downfall also created the Weave.
So 4e is not 'bad lore', in that it was ALL based on stuff Ed had in the setting from the VERY BEGINNING. The 'Holocaust' that we know as the Spellplague was built-in (Ed just never meant to actually throw that switch). True, the presentation of that lore left MUCH to be desired (I already deleted a post yesterday - I don't want to keep beating that dead horse), but the seeds for that lore were all sown by Ed Greenwood. And not just in FR - I see MANY of his ideas branched-out and became part of D&D itself over the years.
Hmmm... maybe not the appropriate thread for this - this is a culmination of many of the threads and trains of thought I have been following, and as the saying goes, "All roads lead to Rome" (or in this case, Ed).
I suppose you can call this post an Anti-rant.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 24 Nov 2010 17:20:08 |
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Marc
Senior Scribe
657 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2010 : 17:08:06
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| I know only of the Old Mushroom Grove near Secomber, and Shandalar the wizard deals with shrooms from a cavern that has a magical gate |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3286 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2010 : 17:32:41
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Well said Markus, very well said!! |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2010 : 17:38:27
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TY.
I was actually looking for the rules pertaining to these things - I KNOW there are rules, because I've come across them at least twice, but I can't remember where. I think they were FR-specific, and I think they were 3e, but I could be wrong on both counts.
And I've tried the logical sources - VGtATM and MoF, to no avail. IIRC, they are someplace unexpected.
Oh... and my thoughts on all things 'mythal' is that those are actually micro-Weaves, the technology (Magi-Tech) for which was discovered and used by the Creators - I'm coming very close to doing a cohesive history of the Fey in the Realms. Since the Creator-races had no Weave, they had to devise other methods of stabilizing the chaotic forces of 'magic' locally.
I say 'magic', when I really mean 'Primal energies', which is what all matter and energy is composed of. Willpower shapes this Primal Energy - normally by gods, but mortals have learned a thing or two.
And to bring this back on-topic, the Fey (in their quest to become the 'Race of Destiny'), not only learned how to wield this divine energy, but also managed to merge with it. When they fled Toril, they left behind their power-source - the Earthnodes - so they had to merge their essence with the Feywild. The Shee (Fey/La'Shay) had already overcome their own mortality by figuring out how to shift from a physical form to that of pure energy (like a god), so when the Affair of the Black Diamond occurred (and tainted many of the world's Earthnodes, becoming Faerzress), they were able to act quickly and re-attune themselves to the Feywild (they had already established a system of dimensional gates to the Feywild to facilitate travel - The Crossroads). The process by which they switched their energy-type was similar to what happened to the Drow (and that Ritual may have been based upon the much-earlier one regarding the Fey). In fact.... the Ritual cast by the Elves may have actually just reversed the original ritual! (for a very specific group of Fey-descendants)  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 24 Nov 2010 17:42:41 |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7971 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2010 : 21:19:28
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I can't find any reference to mushrooms in my datalore (carried in laptop); though I'll check through my booklore later.
I'm not sure I can accept the reasoning about War of Light & Darkness (the conflict between Shar and Selūne, right?) and no-Weave-magic-use. At least until I read more about it; I only recall a few brief creation myths. Which sourcebooks explain this war in detail? |
[/Ayrik] |
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Bladewind
Master of Realmslore
Netherlands
1280 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2010 : 22:01:32
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| Serpent Kingdoms brought us the lore on the creation myths of the Sarruhk, involving Dendar the Night Serpent and the rise and subsequent fracturing of the World Serpent. I'm unaware of the 4e lore involving the Primordials and the split of Abeir and Toril MT mentioned though. |
My campaign sketches
Druidic Groves
Creature Feature: Giant Spiders |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 25 Nov 2010 : 02:39:08
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The most recent info - pg.41, the 4e FRCG (Gray went over this in the other thread AND earlier in this one).
The war itself was detailed, but in 'mythos' format, on pg. 141 of Faiths & Avatars (the Sidebar).
As for the Fairy rings... I'm still looking... I know I ain't nuts... well... not THAT nuts....
(Its probably hiding next to that Candlekeep Illithid I haven't found either...)
EDIT: Two other tomes that may have some fodder for us - Tome of magic (three types of magic in-there, and the Shadow and True-name stuff really works for us), and a 2e Planescape adventure, Something Wild (stuff about the Beastlands and dreams - haven't gone through it yet). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 25 Nov 2010 03:06:48 |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7971 Posts |
Posted - 25 Nov 2010 : 03:15:00
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| Something Wild is essentially just a D&D retelling of the ancient Celtic wild stag hunt. You won't really find anything about magic mushrooms, glades, and circles in it. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 25 Nov 2010 03:16:36 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 25 Nov 2010 : 03:15:40
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I know - I've already searched my PDF - I was just pointing it out to Quale as a possible source for the real topic of this thread.
I'm going to try a different approach...
EDIT: Fraking Gremlins!!!
Just found this - WotC, but not D&D, and kinda interesting. Some usable fluff there - We should go through the rest of the MtG: Lorwyn stuff as well. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 25 Nov 2010 04:03:53 |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 25 Nov 2010 : 11:23:48
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Something Wild is good, except I don't like the gehreleth/Talos part and have modified the story about Malar being imprisoned in Carceri (in Blood Rift in my cosmology). Based on a time of year the Hunter archetype changes, the Malar form is when he falls to the Black Diamond madness and is banished, the other form is of Herne/Oberon/Oran/Green Man. It happens when the Blood Rift tears the planar barriers between the Feywild and Shadowfel, and the seelie-unseelie war is begins again. Chauntea dies, goes to the Fugue, becomes the Blood Mother (but is reborn in spring), the Wild Hunter becomes the Beast.
I said a few threads back, the Beastlands are there, the light layer is in the Deep Wilds, Brux is in Twilight and the dark layer is in the unseelie realm. For the magic, I always used this as an inspiration:
quote:
Originally posted by rip
Arborea is made of Words, which make up Stories, which are Lies that tell the Truth.
The origin of Words are in Runes, the structure behind the cosmos. A dark: Did you see the bison on the cavern wall? The one pierced by spears carved from flint, framed by the handprints of your oldest ancestor? Have you seen the aurochs painted deep in the bowels of caves, the ones that predate words? For every image, there's a rune that's even older.
A deeper dark: The journey from rune to image is the path of the mortai. The mortai, cloudlike beings of pure dream who spun the runes into images, patterns and archetypes from which the Beastlands were created.
A petitioner in the Beastlands has two paths:
The path of form, where they manifest as an animal archetype.
The path of dream, where they become one with the mortai.
Archetypes and images that go rogue become stories in Arborea, a plot or lie built of images, living words. Stories of beginnings and endings describe the Runes, manifest in the structure of Ysgard.
MtG is unknown to me, I'll look into the link, not Di Terlizzi, but has interesting pictures. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7971 Posts |
Posted - 25 Nov 2010 : 21:58:48
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| That would explain all those iconic muppets ... |
[/Ayrik] |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 26 Nov 2010 : 13:18:04
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| For the animal lords I never liked the idea that every animal has one, only those animals that were totems of primitive human tribes. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7971 Posts |
Posted - 26 Nov 2010 : 13:54:47
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I can't see much appeal in a slug, mollusk, cockroach, hyena, or frog lord. Well, maybe the hyena lord would be cool.
As I recall, only a handful of beastlords were actually defined, but something of a template was presented to create more as desired. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 26 Nov 2010 : 14:45:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Quale
For the animal lords I never liked the idea that every animal has one, only those animals that were totems of primitive human tribes.
It would certainly make sense that an animal would have to be venerated before it could have its own animal lord... Some of Arik's examples show how ridiculous it could get if you had an animal lord for everything. And where would it stop, too? There are plenty of microscopic critters that certainly wouldn't need an animal lord...
Though I am obligated to point out that in the World of Darkness, the chosen totem of the Glass Walkers tribe of Werewolves was Cockroach (he was the ultimate survivor-type). I'm a huge fan of the Glass Walkers, but that always -- pardon the pun -- bugged me. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 26 Nov 2010 14:45:59 |
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Gray Richardson
Master of Realmslore
USA
1291 Posts |
Posted - 26 Nov 2010 : 17:37:35
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I don't see animal lords as being the same as gods. My impression is that they don't require worship from either humans or members of the species of which they are the archetype. If you had to categorize them, they may be primal spirits. But then again, they could be their own thing.
To my mind, animal lords are the archetype, the quintessence, the paragon of their species. They are generated out of the collective zeal that their species has for living. The "prayers" that feed them are the actions that each species undertakes in conducting its day-to-day existence. Perhaps that is some sort of variant of faith, a similar mechanic to it, but it doesn't require sapience or self-reflection.
Perhaps not all species have an animal lord. But I don't see why not. Some may be more prominent than others. Minor species may not generate enough power to produce an animal lord of any note. Some animal lords may be completely unremarkable. A normal human could perhaps squish them. There may be an intelligence factor, or minimal sentience requirement. It could be limited to species that possess brains or at least nervous systems. Bacteria might therefore not qualify. Sea slugs? Maybe. Maybe not.
I don't think animal lords necessarily emerge at the species level. Most probably represent genera or higher level. In fact, some probably represent entire orders. For instance, bats, are members of the order chiroptera. This order includes many different suborders, families, genera and species. Yet, as far as I know, there is only one Lord of Bats. Ed called him Camazotz, after the Mayan god from the first Deities & Demigods sourcebook; but I think he has been renamed Neifion in recent lore.
So if animal lords can represent whole genera, families, or even orders, then you don't need quite so many of them. In fact, by my estimation, probably around 500, give or take.
In my view, however, animal lords do not require any kind of veneration by human tribesmen as a totem in order to validate their existence. My own answer to the "chicken or egg" question is that animal lords came first and then humans adopted them as totems. I imagine that most animal lords do not care whether they receive human worship or not.
There remains, though, the question of whether human worship of an animal lord infuses it with any kind of additional power. And here I think there is an arguable point. My guess would be that it does. It probably gives the animal lord either a zero level or 1st level divine rank. Some animal lords may be indifferent to this extra power, others may relish it and seek out more human worship to elevate their apotheosis. Felidae may have fallen into this category before merging with Bast/Sharess. I suppose that for some animal lords, human worship can be like a drug that leads to addiction, making them prone to comport themselves in a manner that is pleasing to humans and elicits greater worship, while perhaps deviating from the behavior that typifies their species. At some point they may actually become fully a god and lose their animal lord status. A new animal lord might spring up to replace them. I imagine that is probably exactly what happened with Felidae after she merged with Bast.
Hmmm... Now that I think on it, Faiths & Pantheons p.103 states that "Nobanion is an interloper deity, having only established a presence in Faerūn a few centuries ago." Could Nobanion have emerged as the new animal lord of cats after Felidae was absorbed by Bast?
Powers & Pantheons tells us on pp.51-52 that at the height of the second empires of Mulhorand and Unther, numerous beast cults gained popularity for a time. During this period, the Mulan and Turami peoples began to venerate Felidae, a goddess of felines, sensual pleasures, and nomads revered by the barbarians to the north and west, and in a very short time the more powerful Bast subsumed Felidae's portfolio and position into her own. Grand History lists the fall of the second empire of Unther in 679 DR. Felidae merged with Bast sometime prior to that.
This might have left a vacancy in the position of Lord of Cats, and Nobanion might have emerged to fill that role.
Though, I have always been intrigued with the notion that Nobanion is described as an interloper deity. And I have wondered if that was meant as a nod to him being an aspect of Aslan, having interloped over from Narnia. If I recall correctly, Ed's home game has links to Narnia. But whether the Faerūn of TSR/WotC has any such links to the world of Narnia is doubtful. But a non-IP infringing Narni-esque world? Maybe. Nobanion may very well be an interloper god from another world in which he was an analog to Aslan.
An alternative notion is that Ed has referred to Nobanion the heraldic lion from the coat of arms of England. In that sense he could be an incarnation of the spirit of England, or a totem animal, if you will. Perhaps Nobanion actually interloped from Earth? D&D Earth anyway. Maybe Nobanion interloped to Faerūn in his capacity as totem animal via planar links that England has with Toril. He may have even been drawn by the power vacuum left by the absence of Felidae, he felt the collective need of the cats of Toril who were wanting for an animal lord, and he crossed over to fill that need.
However, I think Nobanion was called a primal spirit in recent 4e lore, I belive it was in one of Brian's articles in Dragon. If so, then that comports more with him being a spontaneously generated animal lord. And where Faiths & Pantheons called him an interloper god, perhaps they just meant to say a newer, recent god. And that still comports well with the lore about Felidae exiting the picture. At least the timeline works for it.
Although, now that Nobanion is worshiped as a god, his promotion to divinity might have allowed for yet another animal lord of cats to emerge in his place, by which I mean fill the slot for animal lord that Nobanion may have left fallow upon his assumption of divinity.
Something to think about, anyway. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7971 Posts |
Posted - 27 Nov 2010 : 00:48:08
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quote:
Gray Richardson
Yet, as far as I know, there is only one Lord of Bats. Ed called him Camazotz, after the Mayan god from the first Deities & Demigods sourcebook; but I think he has been renamed Neifion in recent lore.
Another name for the Sacred White Bat Lord can be found in Ace Ventura: When Nature Calls. 
Agreed, these Beastlord archetypes would be naturally evolved "gods" of a sort, defined and fueled by the "belief" of their entire species. Uh, if I'm not mistaken, that's exactly what's already said in their monstrous entries.
Interesting questions arise. There must be a Raven Lord, no? There is (also?) a god called Raven - are they the same being?
As far as cats go ... is a goddess like Bast more about humanized perceptions of cats than cats themselves? Is the Cat Lord (by any name) just a redundancy, or is (s)he just a more catty aspect of Bast? |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 27 Nov 2010 01:12:55 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 27 Nov 2010 : 01:12:31
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My own concept of Beastlords is along the lines of Gray's Primal Archtypes (I used to use that word a lot when I first started my cosmological musing).
I think of them as a sort-of Overmind of a genus of creatures; the larger and more prolific the group, the more powerful its 'group spirit' becomes.
In certain cases, I think the primal Spirit/Beastlord can 'evolve' - once it begins to receive worship from sentient creatures, it goes from being the group consciousness of a genus of creatures to being a god (in much the same way that a mortal can evolve through apotheosis). This can also happen artificially - when a Animal paragon get elevated by a true deity, which is what I think may have happened in the case of Baast. Nobanion, on the other hand, I think took the other route and ascended via apotheosis. Ergo we have at least two 'cat' deities, and also a 'Feline beastlord' as well (there is one mentioned in the Zakhara material, in regards to the Jungle that borders Faerūn). Not home ATM, so I can't look that up (and VERY unlike Baast, appears to have a thing for a scaley god).
So I think every speices does have a beastlord, but many (an infinite number, probably) are so few in number that their 'group consciousness' is extremely primive, and not really recognized by sentient beings. Also, as groups have branched-off into hundreds of species (like felines and canines have, for example), they may have gotten their own individual Beastlord/Overmind (OA refers to these as 'Generals'). I think that even sentient races have these 'group consciousnesses'... but those have ascended beyond that form into something 'higher' (maybe thats what Overgods truly are). As the race/species itself evolves, so does it's 'Overmind'. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 27 Nov 2010 19:40:59 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 27 Nov 2010 : 01:24:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Arik
Interesting questions arise. There must be a Raven Lord, no? There is (also?) a god called Raven - are they the same being?
If you speak of the Native American deity named Raven, then they are not the same being. Raven was one of a number of Trickster deities venerated by various Native American tribes. Other Tricksters included Coyote, Spider, and Kokopelli. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 27 Nov 2010 01:30:24 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 27 Nov 2010 : 01:39:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Arik
As far as cats go ... is a goddess like Bast more about humanized perceptions of cats than cats themselves? Is the Cat Lord (by any name) just a redundancy, or is (s)he just a more catty aspect of Bast?
Considering how important cats were in some Earth-based mythological frameworks, it's only reasonable to assume that Bast, when she emigrated to Faerūn, much like the other Mulhorandi deities, brought much of her faith with her. And considering where the Mulan originated [likely to be Earth], their reverence for cats probably also came with them to establish itself in the Realms. So the perception of Bast is probably still as much as it was during ancient times on Earth. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7971 Posts |
Posted - 27 Nov 2010 : 05:30:59
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| Are halflings a fey race? |
[/Ayrik] |
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Gray Richardson
Master of Realmslore
USA
1291 Posts |
Posted - 27 Nov 2010 : 05:53:19
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Halflings are not fey. However, it turns out that gnomes are.
Halflings are supposedly an offshoot of humans. At least, they were in Tolkien. |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 27 Nov 2010 : 21:01:17
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| Hmm, this beastlord stuff is interesting. I recall that there were only four beastlords detailed in the Planescape MM. Hawk, Cat, Lizard, and Wolf. It did, however, go on to say that MOST animals had an archtypical lord, at least at the family level. I seem to remember it mentioning bats, snakes, rabbits, and deer as other possible beastlords, and one could probably add bears, weasel family, sharks, seals, turtles, and even certain birds to the list. I could possibly see a few insects having a beastlord- like the cockroach mentioned earlier- and perhaps spider and scorpions. (Perhaps this is how Lolth became a goddess of spiders- maybe she had at some point subsumed a Spider Lord while still going under the name Araushnee?) Most of the "lower" animal species might not have one at all, or as some suggested, it might be minimal, at best. I seriously doubt that clams have a lord, although with the giant ones it MIGHT be possible. I suspect it is limited to animals that are mobile and more sentient, which would basically be anything with legs and eyes. (Snakes count because they did have legs at one time... Worms? Not so much, I'm thinking.) |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188
Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 27 Nov 2010 : 21:19:59
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In my HB material, Halflings are a group of Urchins* that have re-entered the mortal world, much as Elves have. This was mostly done by Glamouring (casting illusions) to seduce humans, although in some cases changelings (stolen babies) and even (rarely) willing human participation. To what end is unknown (although 'the gods' may have something to do with it), but the cross-breeding between humanity and the small fey have resulted in the Halfings (many varieties, in-fact).
Since emigrating to the Prime Material, they have continued to behave in this manner, including mating with other demi-humans in their constant (subconscious) desire to 'improve' their race (which is why we have an ever-evolving list of Halfling 'sub-types').
*I use 'Urchins' to describe my 2-3' tall fey group now. I can't even remember or find the term I did use near the beginning of the thread (which Quale didn't care for). Although I am borrowing the term from the Complete Guide to Fey, I'm using it a bit differently (and generically). I may go with Duende for that group, eventually. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 27 Nov 2010 : 23:38:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Gray Richardson
Halflings are supposedly an offshoot of humans. At least, they were in Tolkien.
It's commonly believed that there was no full known history of how and when the Halflings entered Middle-earth. It was only because they were half the height of Men, that they were often called Halflings. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7971 Posts |
Posted - 27 Nov 2010 : 23:54:02
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| Gollum started off as one of the "River folk", didn't he? Something very much like Hobbits. At least in the movies ... sadly, I cannot recall this passage from the books. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Fey realms
