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Uchiha_Arthas
Acolyte
9 Posts |
 Posted - 24 Sep 2016 : 12:43:52
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I'm currently trying to set up a campaign based somewhat on the Neverwinter Nights series and it resulted in this question:
How much damage could Mephistopheles do to Waterdeep in the time he was there during Hordes of the Underdark? (Think it was about a few hours or maybe days at least if not more depending on how much time the PC spent in Cania).I also believe it was actually Mephistopheles and not just his avatar but I could be wrong.
Would Blackstaff, Laeral and all the other power players of Waterdeep including however many dragons be a match for the Lord of Cania? or keep him from doing too much damage with his legions?
I'll be honest here I am using this event to bring down the overall power level of and in Waterdeep so players can step up but I can't help wondering how such a battle would really go.
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 24 Sep 2016 : 14:58:26
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Simply put, unopposed, he could wipe out pretty much all of Toril including Waterdeep. But he is opposed, by scores if not hundreds of other powerful beings (all the gods) - none of these would just allow Meph to walk about anywhere in the realms unchecked. And he could not risk the attempt because he would loose his precarious hold over Cania (read Ed Hells articles in Dragon for a great description of how many powerful devils there are and how they are all vying for power at each others expense).
I think a good frame of reference to this was when Mystra went to the hells to rescue Elminster. Without much effort at all she laid waste to the hordes of devils that came against her, but in so doing risked the realms.
Finally, I'd say that unless something very major happened, it was just an avatar and not the god walking about. Read Circle of Skulls for a description of that potential event on Waterdeep. |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6353 Posts |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 24 Sep 2016 : 19:17:35
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| Because along the way they made the Lords Nine gods - which the lords of the infinite layers of the abyss were not. Eltab was one of these. Powerful, yes, but not a god. More importantly, Eltab was bound there - a prisoner on the Prime Material Plane. |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3802 Posts |
Posted - 24 Sep 2016 : 19:25:00
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quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
Eltab walked around toril and no gods turned up to stop him.
Elminster is probably busy (the ogb says he is always busy doing more important stuff), but that scroll the adventurers find in their room that details an ancient artefact that can banish anything was probably delivered by one of his harper friends.
If you're going to stop Mephistopheles, then chances are that your PCs will be already very powerful, and that Elminster wouldn't really be a deal breaker. I think that this could be one of those cases where El&Co could be helpful NPCs (heck, even in helping dealing with the hordes of major devils that big M. probably brought with him), rather than recurring to the usual "they have something more important to do". Because that becomes a bit far fetched when an effin' Lord of Baator walks freely on Toril, happily wreaking havoc as he pleases. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
Edited by - Irennan on 24 Sep 2016 19:26:06 |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6353 Posts |
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Uchiha_Arthas
Acolyte
9 Posts |
Posted - 24 Sep 2016 : 19:55:16
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Thanks for the response all.
Just to clarify:
- I am not counting Divine Intervention here (partly because that would have been a total negation of the PC from the game and quite frankly because that seems to send the message that all the Arch-Devils, ArchDemons and even Evil Gods like Morandor's efforts to be summoned to the Prime are idiotic when good dieties can manifest their full power on Toril and blow them to smithereens without any of that rigmarole the evil side has.)
- The other thing I should clarify is right now this is the current crop of PC's last adventure before their retirement and new adventurers/fools rise in their place who will have to deal with the aftermath of what happened in Waterdeep. They are still heading for the final confrantation but they are on their way to learning Mephisto's true name.
What I am looking for is a bit of a guidance into how much of Waterdeep is left standing considering it's taking the players a few days in Cania to get things done. I want to describe an epic battle to them when they return.
That being said back to my OP how much of Waterdeep and it's protectors (like Khelben, Laeral, Dragons and probably those whom they can call for aid) would still be standing? How much of Waterdeep could Khelben save if Mephisto suddenly dropped into Waterdeep with no warning? I am assuming even the spell battle would leave a devastated city by itself.
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 25 Sep 2016 : 00:12:23
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I'd say you could do anything you want - where I ever to go there I would probably take a chuck out of mount waterdeep and knock out a major section of a ward.
I would definitely not go too far, because the best part about Waterdeep is that it has been highly developed (unlike 99% of the other cities in the realms) - such that you have hundreds of NPCs and hundreds of locations that have descriptions that have been written up over the years.
If you really want to blow up a city, I'd recommend one where you don't lose all that.
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On the topic of Gods who would not let any of the 9 lords into the realms, at the top of my list would be Gargauth - he is their eternal enemy and he'd be damned back to the hells again before he let one of them succeed where he has worked so hard for so long :) |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 25 Sep 2016 : 06:31:11
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I'd have to agree with TMM - its as bad (or not so bad) as YOU want, or need, it to be. Basically, how much do YOU want to have to rebuild? How much do you want your players to rebuild?
And MOST importantly - how much will your players enjoy the rebuilding? Thats your answer to the 'how much' question.
PLus its a fictional setting locale. What thats means if its slightly damaged, it will be perfectly fine tomorrow. Moderately damaged - that could take a week to 'heal'. Heavily damaged, more like a month. No one has to actually work on it... it just fixes itself, and no-one even remembers it happening! (fictional locales are kewl like that). Now, if the city is razed to the ground, the soil sown with salt, every living thing within 500 miles vaporized, and even the memory of the city has been erased from the minds of everyone on the planet... that could take up to six months before it all goes back to normal. 
{That last part was tongue-in-cheek}  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 25 Sep 2016 06:31:57 |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3802 Posts |
Posted - 25 Sep 2016 : 08:18:56
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| I give you the rest, but the standard ETA for the "erased from memory" condition to be undone is about a century or so (see what happened to Kiaransalee) :P |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6353 Posts |
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Uchiha_Arthas
Acolyte
9 Posts |
Posted - 25 Sep 2016 : 15:35:15
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Right now I am going for major injuries to the power players locations of Waterdeep.
- Khelben for example is majorly injured, Mephisto who created Hellfire was prepered and actually drained Spellfire from him and Laeral when they used it against him. Mephisto still hasn't mastered spellfire but in a way gaining spellfire makes the whole thing worth it for him. What the Arch-Devil will do with it, well good thing there will be high-level heroes around...eventually...if they survive long enough.
- What might be worse in Khelben's eyes is that his tower is semi-destroyed and is not repairing itself. Which ironically makes it more dangerous then a fully destroyed tower. The semi-destroyed tower has oodles of magic crackling around it, most of it either working randomly or not working as intended and all of it highly unstable. A huge part of Khelben's magic items & library are destroyed and what's left are now targets for some ambitious thieves and enemies who see Blackstaff tower as vulnerable. (Khelben, paranoid guy that he is does have back ups but I'd like to believe Blackstaff tower contained a major part of his resources.)
- The Dragonward of Waterdeep is also flickering and not going to last much longer. Concerned people are looking into exactly how to repair or at least power down a damaged Mythal safely.
- A number of masked lords are dead. Only a few are still alive. Political infighting ahouy.
- Waterdeep itself is weakened. Lots of civilians dead with most of it's standing guard/army dead. Neverwinter is still getting over the Wailing Death. Lot's of villains are thinking Cyric-mas Day has come at last and are either making plans to attack or at least begin major expansion programs.
That's my current plan for Waterdeep.
Regarding Mephisto going for a subtle approach, in a way I would like to incorporate that (which is why I had him have the side goal of stealing silver fire) but this campaign is mostly based on the NWN: HotU expansion so Mephisto going for the burn / pillage/ destroy thing is pretty much a given.
According to the final confrontation, Mephisto was planning on turning Toril into the Tenth Hell and seemed somewhat confident that he could do it. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 25 Sep 2016 : 19:13:30
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The one good thing about detroying very specific parts of the city (rather then go 'whole hog' on the thing) is that you get to shoe-horn in any adventure/dungeon you want from other sources. Some very old structure got destroyed, and "looky here! - there seems to be an ancient tunnel leading out of the cellar area!" Mount Waterdeep could have a chunk missing out of it (as someone mentioned above), and you get a 'broken anthill' affect - you get to 'see into' a cross-section of the maze of caves that is the 'shallow' Underdark that is beneath this city. Just imagine all the 'uglies' that could be spilling out, or that the city now has to set guards at all this unfortunate 'new openings' into places they felt were better kept under wraps. You can literally 'go to town' with Waterdeep at this point.
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
I give you the rest, but the standard ETA for the "erased from memory" condition to be undone is about a century or so (see what happened to Kiaransalee) :P
Thats for a god, not a locale.
Day 1: Zhentil keep is ruined!
Day 28: Ruined? Whatever do you mean?
There isn't a single (semi-important) thing that was destroyed in FR in a novel (or adventure path) that wasn't 'brought back' afterward. This even includes characters and gods... MORTAL characters who are around over a hundred years later. The setting has gone from 'amusingly coincidental' to utter idiocy in a very short amount of time. Hell, we even have 'fallen civilizations' a milenia+ year gone getting brought back. Its like a superhero death in a comic - you don't feel for it anymore because you know its all temporary.
Which is why most of us (here) tend to just ignore anything post-3e (or even post-2e). 
EDIT: But I totally get what you were saying. On the other hand, would we really have gotten that 'century later' return if the setting itself hadn't been fast-forwarded? Had it only been 5-20 years, I am pretty sure it would have all come back, just the same, regardless of the time past. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 25 Sep 2016 19:21:27 |
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HotU: Could Mephistopheles damage Waterdeep badly?
