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Menelvagor
Senior Scribe

Israel
352 Posts

Posted - 02 Feb 2010 :  18:32:01  Show Profile  Visit Menelvagor's Homepage Send Menelvagor a Private Message
Which Lhaeo, actually? The first one, who left to be King of Tethyr, or the second?

"Shall mortal man be more just than God? shall a man be more pure than his maker?
Behold, he put no trust in his servants; and his angels he charged with folly.
How much less them that dwell in houses of clay, whose foundation in the dust, are crushed before the moth?" - Eliphaz the Temanite, Job IV, 17-19.

"Yea, though he live a thousand years twice, yet hath he seen no good: do not all go to one place?" - Ecclesiastes VI, 6.

"There are no stupid questions – just a bunch of inquisitive idiots."

"Let's not call it 'hijacking'. Let's call it 'Thread Drift'."
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5043 Posts

Posted - 02 Feb 2010 :  19:18:50  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Hi again, all.
createvmind, Ed tells me:

In the 1370s, Sulasspryn is still a ruin, sporadically inhabited by salvagers and hunters "camping out" in the ruins. Not to mention monsters and brigands preying on them, and the occasional caravan or prospectors' packtrain sheltering from fierce storms.

So saith Ed.
love,
THO
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gomez
Learned Scribe

Netherlands
254 Posts

Posted - 02 Feb 2010 :  20:37:22  Show Profile  Visit gomez's Homepage Send gomez a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage

quote:
Originally posted by gomez

Hmmm... Lhaeo (Elminster's THO, so to speak, but less ehr... hot). Is he still alive?
You mean post-Spellplague?


Yes.... and I didnt know there were two?
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Menelvagor
Senior Scribe

Israel
352 Posts

Posted - 02 Feb 2010 :  22:13:28  Show Profile  Visit Menelvagor's Homepage Send Menelvagor a Private Message
Yes. The first one was actually Prince Haedrak of Tethyr, who was hidden there to protect him from his enemies. Lhaeo is a anagram for his full name 'Haedrak Errilam Alemander Olosar Lhorik' (first letters of each name in no order). he was replaced by another one, so there would be no suspicions regarding his identity. I quote from 'Lands of Intrigue: Tethyr' (Haedrak - the first Lhaeo - is the Narrator): "Within the passing of five tendays, we found you a replacement scribe of the ability and temerity to suit your household. While it was an indignity, you chose to weave an illusion about the scribe, so 'Lhaeo' remains your scribe to this day."

"Shall mortal man be more just than God? shall a man be more pure than his maker?
Behold, he put no trust in his servants; and his angels he charged with folly.
How much less them that dwell in houses of clay, whose foundation in the dust, are crushed before the moth?" - Eliphaz the Temanite, Job IV, 17-19.

"Yea, though he live a thousand years twice, yet hath he seen no good: do not all go to one place?" - Ecclesiastes VI, 6.

"There are no stupid questions – just a bunch of inquisitive idiots."

"Let's not call it 'hijacking'. Let's call it 'Thread Drift'."

Edited by - Menelvagor on 02 Feb 2010 22:16:01
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createvmind
Senior Scribe

490 Posts

Posted - 02 Feb 2010 :  22:40:54  Show Profile  Visit createvmind's Homepage Send createvmind a Private Message
Posted - 02 Feb 2010 : 19:18:50
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi again, all.
createvmind, Ed tells me:

In the 1370s, Sulasspryn is still a ruin, sporadically inhabited by salvagers and hunters "camping out" in the ruins. Not to mention monsters and brigands preying on them, and the occasional caravan or prospectors' packtrain sheltering from fierce storms.

So saith Ed.
love,
THO




Thanks for fast reply, exactly where it is located (30 miles between here and there) and does one climb down into it or has it filled in over the years, has the upper dark been connected to it since its collapse?
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31690 Posts

Posted - 02 Feb 2010 :  23:41:40  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by gomez

quote:
Originally posted by The Sage

quote:
Originally posted by gomez

Hmmm... Lhaeo (Elminster's THO, so to speak, but less ehr... hot). Is he still alive?
You mean post-Spellplague?


Yes.... and I didnt know there were two?

Ed has actually talked a little about the "current" Lhaeo in previous replies here at Candlekeep. Specifically, see the '04 files in the "So Saith Ed" archive.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage
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BEAST
Master of Realmslore

USA
1714 Posts

Posted - 03 Feb 2010 :  07:07:58  Show Profile  Visit BEAST's Homepage Send BEAST a Private Message
In the Menzoberranzan [Boxed Set] (M[BS]), the third book, "The House Do'Urden Retrospective" ("THDUR"), doesn't seem to say who wrote it. Any ideas who put that together?

I'm trying to give Bob his credit in my chronology where it's due, without stepping on other authors' toes in the process.

[EDIT:] Also, while I'm at it, what was the publishing month for the set? The copyright page only says "1992".

I was trying to place it in relation to Bob's novel The Legacy (TL; SEP-1992). Since the "THDUR" cites events and even quotes passages from TL as a then-recent interrelated book, clearly they would've had to have been published around the same time.

Amazon lists the M[BS] twice: once in <JAN-1992>, and once in <DEC-1992>. December would make more sense, given the connections with the novel TL.

EDIT: The Keep lists it as OCT-1992 <here>. That jibes even better with a SEP-1992 date for The Legacy.

"'You don't know my history,' he said dryly."
--Drizzt Do'Urden (The Pirate King, Part 1: Chapter 2)

<"Comprehensive Chronology of R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms Works">

Edited by - BEAST on 06 Feb 2010 08:41:21
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gomez
Learned Scribe

Netherlands
254 Posts

Posted - 03 Feb 2010 :  12:26:34  Show Profile  Visit gomez's Homepage Send gomez a Private Message
Not much on Lhaeo really, something about a web article, did that ever get published?

A question of a different kind then.
I have need for an sagely expert on alchemy in Marsember.
I was considering Amthur Ondamus, importer of medicines, or one of his descendants.
Does anyone know where he is detailed? Race, etc?

Gomez
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31690 Posts

Posted - 03 Feb 2010 :  14:59:21  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by gomez

Not much on Lhaeo really, something about a web article, did that ever get published?
Aye. 'Twas to be a "Realmslore" article as I recall. But no, it never was officially included as part of that online article series at WotC. Which is unfortunate.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage
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Blueblade
Senior Scribe

USA
804 Posts

Posted - 03 Feb 2010 :  15:35:48  Show Profile  Visit Blueblade's Homepage Send Blueblade a Private Message
I'm obviously neither Ed nor THO, but I dimly remember from GenCon discussions that Ed did the master map for Menzo and all of the text EXCEPT the material in one of the booklets (done by RAS and a co-writer), which probably was the House Retro. Ed, I'm sure, will remember.
As for the "replacement Lhaeo," I remember a GenCon seminar in which it was said (by Ed, with TSR/WotC staffers sitting right beside him who nodded rather than contradicting him), that it was a young female mage, on the run from something and nedding to hide just as the "first Lhaeo" had needed to hide, who stepped into impersonating Lhaeo, magically altering her appearance to do so.
Ed? THO?
BB
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The Red Walker
Great Reader

USA
3532 Posts

Posted - 03 Feb 2010 :  18:39:06  Show Profile  Send The Red Walker a Yahoo! Message Send The Red Walker a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Blueblade

I'm obviously neither Ed nor THO, but I dimly remember from GenCon discussions that Ed did the master map for Menzo and all of the text EXCEPT the material in one of the booklets (done by RAS and a co-writer), which probably was the House Retro. Ed, I'm sure, will remember.
As for the "replacement Lhaeo," I remember a GenCon seminar in which it was said (by Ed, with TSR/WotC staffers sitting right beside him who nodded rather than contradicting him), that it was a young female mage, on the run from something and nedding to hide just as the "first Lhaeo" had needed to hide, who stepped into impersonating Lhaeo, magically altering her appearance to do so.
Ed? THO?
BB



I'd love to know more about Lhaeo #2!

A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka

"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -

John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Baleful Avatar
Learned Scribe

Canada
161 Posts

Posted - 03 Feb 2010 :  20:33:35  Show Profile  Visit Baleful Avatar's Homepage Send Baleful Avatar a Private Message
Me, too. I'm away from my books right now, so...what exactly was said in official TSR- and WotC-published Realmslore about the second Lhaeo? And where?
Thanks!
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The Red Walker
Great Reader

USA
3532 Posts

Posted - 04 Feb 2010 :  23:27:25  Show Profile  Send The Red Walker a Yahoo! Message Send The Red Walker a Private Message
Tears of Selune.....

How many are habitable? And which would be large enough for a small community, mostly self sufficent?

A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka

"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -

John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30430 Posts

Posted - 05 Feb 2010 :  00:31:13  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker

Tears of Selune.....

How many are habitable? And which would be large enough for a small community, mostly self sufficent?



Steven Schend stuck the Rock of Bral in the Tears. And if you consult Realmspace, you'll find some notes on other inhabitable Tears.

I love Realmspace as a Spelljammer supplement, but I don't like a lot of the Toril, Selūne, and Tears lore in it, from a purely FR standpoint. A lot of it is just plain problematic, when viewed from an FR perspective.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Editor and scribe for The Candlekeep Compendium

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31690 Posts

Posted - 05 Feb 2010 :  00:40:24  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker

Tears of Selune.....

How many are habitable? And which would be large enough for a small community, mostly self sufficent?



Steven Schend stuck the Rock of Bral in the Tears. And if you consult Realmspace, you'll find some notes on other inhabitable Tears.
Yep. 'Twas in Lands of Intrigue, as I recall.
quote:
I love Realmspace as a Spelljammer supplement, but I don't like a lot of the Toril, Selūne, and Tears lore in it, from a purely FR standpoint. A lot of it is just plain problematic, when viewed from an FR perspective.
I'm inclined to agree. As it is, I utilise the Realmspace supplement more as a generic product for my SJ campaigns, than I do for Realms-specific SJ adventures.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5043 Posts

Posted - 05 Feb 2010 :  03:09:22  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Hi again, everyone. I just got word that GRANTS PASS, a post-apocalyptic anthology co-edited by Ed's CASTLEMOURN collaborator, Jennifer Brozek, that contains an Ed story, "A Perfect Night To Watch Detroit Burn," has been nominated for a Stoker Award.
(The Bram Stoker Award is the Oscar of the horror writing field.)
In other news, Ed is hard at work on a new Realmslore "eventual publication" tidbit for all of us, and promises me some lore replies this weekend.
love to all,
THO
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Kyrene
Senior Scribe

South Africa
648 Posts

Posted - 05 Feb 2010 :  08:56:03  Show Profile  Visit Kyrene's Homepage Send Kyrene a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One

Hi again, everyone. I just got word that GRANTS PASS, a post-apocalyptic anthology co-edited by Ed's CASTLEMOURN collaborator, Jennifer Brozek, that contains an Ed story, "A Perfect Night To Watch Detroit Burn," has been nominated for a Stoker Award.
(The Bram Stoker Award is the Oscar of the horror writing field.)

Ni-iii-ce! Here's holding thumbs/claws/tentacles...

On that topic, just how many awards has Ed won for his own work, or through collaborations, or through being published in anthologies or the like, in the past?

Lost for words? Find them in the Glossary of Phrases, Sayings & Words of the Realms

I am a sexy, shoeless god of war!

The Sellplague began, for all intents and purposes, in the dominions of the Corporation. Greed murdered Good Design, unraveling common sense in the cosmos and destroying her dominion. At the same time, Sales Fears and Warcraft Envy happened into alignment. This cataclysmic coincidence led to upheaval, shaking apart the primeval order, opening up holes in wallets, and reshaping everything...
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Blueblade
Senior Scribe

USA
804 Posts

Posted - 05 Feb 2010 :  15:29:58  Show Profile  Visit Blueblade's Homepage Send Blueblade a Private Message
Heh. I doubt he keeps count.
However, let me tot up the ones I can think of...I know this is an incomplete list, and I'm not including nominations (Like the Stoker and at least one Nebula nomination)...
GAMA Awards: two co-wins (meaning: others worked on the same product that won the award), plus election to the Hall of Fame (yes, you get a Callie trophy)
Gamer's Choice Awards: one win and four co-wins, I think...
Golden Goblin Award
Golden Gryphon Award (from a Canadian university)
ENNIEs: four co-wins, one of them a 101st share and one of them a (I think) eighth-share

...and a bunch of trophies from various wins in playing competition at gaming conventions, including a Best Player at the AD&D Open at GenCon in 1984 (I was there).
THO, I'm sure you can do better than this stumbling attempt of mine...
(hint hint)
BB
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Malcolm
Learned Scribe

242 Posts

Posted - 05 Feb 2010 :  15:43:18  Show Profile  Visit Malcolm's Homepage Send Malcolm a Private Message
Hmm, the Origins Awards (GAMAs) won by Ed...he was inducted into the Hall of Fame in 2003, and that was the same year he got his eighth share (I'm away from my copy of the anthology right now, so I'm trusting you on the size of the share, Blueblade ) for the Book of Final Flesh (Eden Studios, James Lowder edited). His 101st share is a Silver Ennie for Hobby Games: The 100 Best (Green Ronin, James Lowder editing again). I'm not sure if you count Ed in on the various Pathfinder wins that incorporate little bits of his writing for them - - and I don't count products (like the 4th edition Monster Manual for D&D) that use Ed's monsters rewritten by someone else); if you count those in, I think you can add about 12 shares of awards, over the years...
LOL. I'm SURE Ed doesn't keep track of them!
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Blueblade
Senior Scribe

USA
804 Posts

Posted - 05 Feb 2010 :  15:56:09  Show Profile  Visit Blueblade's Homepage Send Blueblade a Private Message
To avoid any confusion, I should point out that the Gamer's Choice awards Ed won were not the same Gamer's Choice awards that are now given out (the current ones started in 2000). The earlier ones were plaques, and I know Ed shared in wins by the FR Campaign Setting (aka "the old gray box") and Lords of Darkness (the very first product with that several-times-reused title). You could also argue that, as a Contributing Editor, he shared in wins by Polyhedron and multiple awards by Dragon magazine.
A lot of the early awards were given to publishers rather than writers or designers, even if the product that won was essentially the work of one person.
I KNOW Ed has two Callies in his possession, because I've seen a photo of him in a local Ontario newspaper that has them (a little out of focus) behind him, on a bookshelf. Yes, he's using them as bookends.
BB
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Baleful Avatar
Learned Scribe

Canada
161 Posts

Posted - 05 Feb 2010 :  16:04:49  Show Profile  Visit Baleful Avatar's Homepage Send Baleful Avatar a Private Message
Well, he's missing the Callie from 1990 for FORGOTTEN REALMS ADVENTURES, because in those days the award went to the publisher. However, it's really a co-win for Ed and Jeff Grubb (Ed, after all, mapped and wrote all the cities, and the collective terms, and a lot of the spells, and some of the treasure, etc.).
However, from what little I know of Ed personally (mainly meeting him or hearing him speak at GenCons), I doubt he cares much about awards. Except to be happy when good games or the work of friends gets recognized. Like they say in Canada: "He's a Canadian, not a competitor."
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5043 Posts

Posted - 05 Feb 2010 :  16:26:52  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
I'd say you put that rather well.
I doubt Ed values his awards other than as triggers for fond memories of working on the products, though I'm sure he's as flattered as any creator is, when people bestow a recognition of his work. I KNOW Ed doesn't participate in the sort of awards where you must submit your own work, to be considered (as Canada's Auroras became at one point, or the media tie-in writing awards are).
His most prized awards are a handwritten Realms short story given to him by a fan as the prize in a "win a story" con contest, and a replica of Elminster's staff (from the illustration of the staff on the cover of ELMINSTER: THE MAKING OF A MAGE) made by TSR when Jim Butler was at the helm of the Realms (I think it was Jim's idea, and he certainly had approval over it and must have been a driving force behind it), and presented to Ed at a Milwaukee GenCon by Ed's good friend Calye "Chainmail Girl" in full, er, chain-adorned undress.
Ed values the book of remembrances from friends assembled by Brian Cortijo (and Jeff Thetford, with contributions from many, many others) and spearheaded by Brian Cortijo, and presented to Ed at a surprise 50th birthday party at GenCon, over all else. "My most prized possession," he's described it as.
So far as I know, Ed has been nominated twice for Nebula awards, given for excellence in sf and fantasy writing by members of SFWA, but in neither case has made the "final ballot."
And yes, he does use his two Callies as bookends. One is a co-win for the 3rd Edition FR Campaign Guide, and the other is his Hall of Fame trophy (looks identical to a category winner Callie). Ed never received a trophy for his 1990 win for Forgotten Realms Adventures. And yes, he won or co-won about a dozen of those early Gamers' Choice awards, but only has one of the plaques (Jeff Grubb gave it to him). He also has a "Winning Team" member cup for that 1984 Open win, and a large wall plaque for Best Player - - which, as I recall from the stories, was handed to him wrapped in a protective swathing of disposable diapers (thankfully, not used ones !).
love to all,
THO

Edited by - The Hooded One on 05 Feb 2010 21:46:12
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The Red Walker
Great Reader

USA
3532 Posts

Posted - 05 Feb 2010 :  20:06:19  Show Profile  Send The Red Walker a Yahoo! Message Send The Red Walker a Private Message
Having met Ed a few Cons ago....I think his reward is meeting people who love his creation and sharing with them. With all that he does for all that he does it for, selfless does not begin to describe the caliber of the man that is Ed.

A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka

"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -

John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader

USA
3345 Posts

Posted - 05 Feb 2010 :  22:17:39  Show Profile Send Dalor Darden a Private Message
Ed, while reading a fine document put together by Snowblood (here on Candlekeep) I came to wonder:

What ever happened to the Ondonti-orcs that were captured by the Zhentarim and taken to the Citadel of the Raven? Related to that, what became of the Ondonti that were not captured?
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JamesLowder
Forgotten Realms Author & Game Designer

USA
298 Posts

Posted - 06 Feb 2010 :  16:54:54  Show Profile  Visit JamesLowder's Homepage Send JamesLowder a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Malcolm

for the Book of Final Flesh (Eden Studios, James Lowder edited). His 101st share is a Silver Ennie for Hobby Games: The 100 Best (Green Ronin, James Lowder editing again).


Ed's been part of most of the award-winning projects I've edited: The Book of Final Flesh, Astounding Hero Tales, and Hobby Games: The 100 Best all won Origins Awards, and Hobby Games won a silver ENnie. Ed wrote original material for them all. The second Worlds of Dungeons & Dragons comic book trade paperback won the Origins Award last year for fiction, and that includes an adaptation of "Elminster at the Magefair," so I'd include him as part of that one, too.

We have high hopes for The Best of All Flesh, which came out in December from Elder Signs Press and contains a reprint of Ed's "One Last, Little Revenge," and Family Games: The 100 Best, which should be heading to the printer (finally) next week and to which Ed contributed an original essay.

Cheers,
Jim Lowder

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