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xaviera
Learned Scribe
Canada
149 Posts |
 Posted - 11 Oct 2009 : 19:04:47
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For some strange reason  I am attempting to set out a timeline for the evolution of Sharess. Based on Brian James' "A Grand History of the Forgotten Realms", the pertinent events that I've been able to find are:
- Mulhorandi pantheon arrives in Faerūn, -2489 DR
- End of the First Mulhorandi Empire, -1048 DR
- End of the First Untheri Empire, -734 DR
- Humans settle the Wizard's Reach, -100 DR to 250 DR
- Fall of the Second Untheri Empire, 679 DR
- Fall of Myth Drannor, 714 DR
- Temples of Shar & Sharess destroyed in Calimshan, 808 DR
- Contact made between humans & Yuir elves, 870 DR to 880 DR
- Fall of the Second Mulhorandi Empire, 922 DR
- Time of Troubles 1358 DR
Other references I've used include Powers & Pantheons (PP) and Demihuman Deities (DD).
Based on the information in these sources (mainly the History), I hypothesize that (1) the second empires of Unther & Mulhorand were formed sometime in the 3-4 centuries after -211 DR. Other events that would help pin her history down are (2) the year that Mask is admitted by Ao to the Old Empires and (3) the year that Selvetarm is born. The latter supposedly occurs around the time that (4) drow are attacking the Yuirwood, but the History is silent on any activity there between -699 DR (the star elves depart) and 870 DR (humans of Velprin begin to re-enter the Yuir). It could be argued that Zandilar's wiles helped keep humans out of the Yuir between -100 and 870 but that the drow were engaged in activities there before 870. Also, the joining of Bast and Zandilar must occur before 808 if a temple to Sharess exists in Calimshan on that date, and can't occur earlier than 'many centuries' before (5) the destruction of Zanassu by Selvetarm sometime after 292 DR. Basically, there's a period of about 900 years where no events in the history of Bast/Sharess can be determined with certainty - or at least not by me. If anyone can help me with these, I'd appreciate it.
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"When the Mulhorandi deities emigrated to Faerūn, Bast accompanied them." (PP 51) -2489 DR
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"At the height of the second empires of Mulhorand and Unther, numerous beast cults gained popularity for a time.... and in a very short time the more powerful Bast subsumed Felidae's portfolio and position into her own." (PP 51-2) ca. -211 to 679 DR
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"When Ao allowed Mask to expand his geographic sphere of influence to include the thieves of the Old Empires... he required that the Faerūnian pantheon accept a Mulhorandi power into their geographic sphere of influence in exchange. Bast immediately set off to explore Faerūn." (PP 52) ca. -211 to 808 DR
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"Some time later, Bast acquired the portfolio and aspect of an elven demipower worshiped by the elves of the Yuirwood.... Zandilar was a joyful and tragic demipower who is said to have used her feminine wiles to gain vital information from deities of other pantheons and to persuade human chieftains and kings to leave the Yuir in peace. When the Yuir elves began to falter in a series of battles with drow armies, Zandilar attempted to seduce the dark elven deity Vhaeraun either to gain information or to elicit his assistance in battling the forces of Lolth." (PP 52)
"Selvetarm is the offspring of an ill-fated tryst between Vhaeraun and Zandilar the Dancer.... The Masked Lord betrayed Zandilar and imprisoned her, and only the timely assistance of Bast, an errant Mulhorandi demipower, allowed the Dancer to escape. Selvetarm was birthed shortly thereafter when the weakened Zandilar voluntarily merged her essence with that of Bast, creating the goddess now known as Sharess." (DD 37)
"Selvetarm walked a solitary way for many centuries.... When the Spider Demon lost much of his power after a conflict on the Prime (against Qysara Shoon V of the Shoon Empire) Lolth convinced Selvetarm to destroy Zanassu" (DD 37)
"Zanassu was banished back to the Abyss by the qysara in the Year of Frostfires (292 DR).... his avatar did not actually return to the Apostolaeum until the Year of the Wandering Waves (1292 DR), 1,000 years to the day after his banishment." (DD 38-9)
[If 'many centuries' (DD 37) means 'at least 400 years', then Selvetarm can have been born no later than 892 DR and no earlier than -108 DR, since he must have killed Zanassu sometime during that 1000-year exile. In fact, he must exist before 808 as Bast/Zandilar is known as Sharess by that date]
"In gratitude and out of necessity, the severely weakened Zandilar voluntarily merged her essence with that of Bast. A reinvigorated Bast/Zandilar was then strong enough to help the Yuir elves drive off the drow forces for a time." (P&P p.52) ca. -108 to 808 DR
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"Some time after the fall of Myth Drannor, Bast began to experiment with the darker side of pleasure and fell under the influence of Shar, Mistress of the Night." (PP 52) 714 to 808 DR
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"Sharess was never fully absorbed by Shar, however, and during the Time of Troubles she was released from this dark link by Sune." (PP 52) 1358 DR
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Writings on Sharess: Thoughts & Prayers by Xaviera ~ High Priestess of Sharess |
Edited by - xaviera on 11 Oct 2009 19:06:41
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froglegg
Learned Scribe
317 Posts |
Posted - 14 Dec 2009 : 00:22:43
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quote:
Originally posted by xaviera
For some strange reason I am attempting to set out a timeline for the evolution of Sharess. Based on Brian James' "A Grand History of the Forgotten Realms", the pertinent events that I've been able to find are:
- Mulhorandi pantheon arrives in Faerūn, -2489 DR
- End of the First Mulhorandi Empire, -1048 DR
- End of the First Untheri Empire, -734 DR
- Humans settle the Wizard's Reach, -100 DR to 250 DR
- Fall of the Second Untheri Empire, 679 DR
- Fall of Myth Drannor, 714 DR
- Temples of Shar & Sharess destroyed in Calimshan, 808 DR
- Contact made between humans & Yuir elves, 870 DR to 880 DR
- Fall of the Second Mulhorandi Empire, 922 DR
- Time of Troubles 1358 DR
Other references I've used include Powers & Pantheons (PP) and Demihuman Deities (DD).
Based on the information in these sources (mainly the History), I hypothesize that (1) the second empires of Unther & Mulhorand were formed sometime in the 3-4 centuries after -211 DR. Other events that would help pin her history down are (2) the year that Mask is admitted by Ao to the Old Empires and (3) the year that Selvetarm is born. The latter supposedly occurs around the time that (4) drow are attacking the Yuirwood, but the History is silent on any activity there between -699 DR (the star elves depart) and 870 DR (humans of Velprin begin to re-enter the Yuir). It could be argued that Zandilar's wiles helped keep humans out of the Yuir between -100 and 870 but that the drow were engaged in activities there before 870. Also, the joining of Bast and Zandilar must occur before 808 if a temple to Sharess exists in Calimshan on that date, and can't occur earlier than 'many centuries' before (5) the destruction of Zanassu by Selvetarm sometime after 292 DR. Basically, there's a period of about 900 years where no events in the history of Bast/Sharess can be determined with certainty - or at least not by me. If anyone can help me with these, I'd appreciate it.
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"When the Mulhorandi deities emigrated to Faerūn, Bast accompanied them." (PP 51) -2489 DR
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"At the height of the second empires of Mulhorand and Unther, numerous beast cults gained popularity for a time.... and in a very short time the more powerful Bast subsumed Felidae's portfolio and position into her own." (PP 51-2) ca. -211 to 679 DR
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"When Ao allowed Mask to expand his geographic sphere of influence to include the thieves of the Old Empires... he required that the Faerūnian pantheon accept a Mulhorandi power into their geographic sphere of influence in exchange. Bast immediately set off to explore Faerūn." (PP 52) ca. -211 to 808 DR
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"Some time later, Bast acquired the portfolio and aspect of an elven demipower worshiped by the elves of the Yuirwood.... Zandilar was a joyful and tragic demipower who is said to have used her feminine wiles to gain vital information from deities of other pantheons and to persuade human chieftains and kings to leave the Yuir in peace. When the Yuir elves began to falter in a series of battles with drow armies, Zandilar attempted to seduce the dark elven deity Vhaeraun either to gain information or to elicit his assistance in battling the forces of Lolth." (PP 52)
"Selvetarm is the offspring of an ill-fated tryst between Vhaeraun and Zandilar the Dancer.... The Masked Lord betrayed Zandilar and imprisoned her, and only the timely assistance of Bast, an errant Mulhorandi demipower, allowed the Dancer to escape. Selvetarm was birthed shortly thereafter when the weakened Zandilar voluntarily merged her essence with that of Bast, creating the goddess now known as Sharess." (DD 37)
"Selvetarm walked a solitary way for many centuries.... When the Spider Demon lost much of his power after a conflict on the Prime (against Qysara Shoon V of the Shoon Empire) Lolth convinced Selvetarm to destroy Zanassu" (DD 37)
"Zanassu was banished back to the Abyss by the qysara in the Year of Frostfires (292 DR).... his avatar did not actually return to the Apostolaeum until the Year of the Wandering Waves (1292 DR), 1,000 years to the day after his banishment." (DD 38-9)
[If 'many centuries' (DD 37) means 'at least 400 years', then Selvetarm can have been born no later than 892 DR and no earlier than -108 DR, since he must have killed Zanassu sometime during that 1000-year exile. In fact, he must exist before 808 as Bast/Zandilar is known as Sharess by that date]
"In gratitude and out of necessity, the severely weakened Zandilar voluntarily merged her essence with that of Bast. A reinvigorated Bast/Zandilar was then strong enough to help the Yuir elves drive off the drow forces for a time." (P&P p.52) ca. -108 to 808 DR
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"Some time after the fall of Myth Drannor, Bast began to experiment with the darker side of pleasure and fell under the influence of Shar, Mistress of the Night." (PP 52) 714 to 808 DR
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"Sharess was never fully absorbed by Shar, however, and during the Time of Troubles she was released from this dark link by Sune." (PP 52) 1358 DR
Thats it Xaviera I knight you Goddess of all things about Sharess. 
John |
Long live Alias and Dragonbait! Kate Novak and Jeff Grubb the Realms need you more then ever!
On my word as a sage nothing within these pages is false, but not all of it may prove to be true. - Elminster of Shadowdale
The Old Grey Box gets better with age! |
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Snowblood
Senior Scribe
Australia
388 Posts |
Posted - 14 Dec 2009 : 03:27:07
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I agree...this saves me a lot.....of time thanks.....heaps!!!!!!!!
:=) |
Aryvandaar, Ilythiir, Arnothoi, Orva, Sarphil, Anauria/Asram/Hlondath, Uvaeren, Braceldaur, Ilodhar, Lisenaar, Imaskar, Miyeritar, Orishaar, Shantel Othrieir, Keltormir, Eaerlann, Ammarindar, Siluvanede, Sharrven, Illefarn, Ardeep, Rystal Wood, Evereska are all available here for download:http://phasai.deviantart.com/gallery/
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xaviera
Learned Scribe
Canada
149 Posts |
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froglegg
Learned Scribe
317 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2009 : 03:54:20
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I have no idea. All I can think of to do is ask ED.
John |
Long live Alias and Dragonbait! Kate Novak and Jeff Grubb the Realms need you more then ever!
On my word as a sage nothing within these pages is false, but not all of it may prove to be true. - Elminster of Shadowdale
The Old Grey Box gets better with age! |
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xaviera
Learned Scribe
Canada
149 Posts |
Posted - 21 May 2011 : 04:56:35
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Resusciting my own long-dead post....
I'm still trying to tie down the history of Sharess (why? why not? ) and have located some additional information in The Grand History of the Realms (GHotR) and Old Empires (OE) that helps a little bit. Along with the information in Powers & Pantheons (PP) and Demihuman Deities (DD) and some liberal interpretation, I've come up with a slightly altered chronology.
From OE,
"One hundred and fifty years before the founding of Cormyr [in 26 DR], the nations of Narfell and Raumathar were dead, their people scattered into tiny enclaves, their lands in ruins. Mulhorand and Unther decided to pick up the pieces." [p.4]
From GHotR,
-135 "The Mulhorandi found Kensten (present-day Bezantur) on the coast of Wizards' Reach."
This places the beginnings of the Second Empires around -130, plus or minus a few years.
More from GHotR,
205 "Mulhorand and Unther chase the defeated Arkaiuns back to Eltabranar and exterminate them. A dying shaman prophecies that their empires shall soon crumble."
482 "The northern cities of Delthuntle and Laothkund declare independence from Unther."
Thus, "the height of the second empires of Mulhorand and Unther" probably runs from shortly before 205 to 482, when the decline of Unther begins.
From Powers & Pantheons,
"At the height of the second empires of Mulhorand and Unther, numerous beast cults gained popularity for a time. During this period, the Mulan and Turami peoples began to venerate Felidae, a goddess of felines, sensual pleasures, and nomads revered by the barbarians to the north and west, and in a very short time the more powerful Bast subsumed Felidae's portfolio and position into her own." [PP, pp.51-2]
Thus, Bast probably joins with Felidae sometime in the three centuries between 200 - 500 (though I suspect more likely between 300 - 400).
I haven't been able to figure out "when Ao allowed Mask to expand his geographic sphere of influence to include the thieves of the Old Empires" and "Bast immediately set off to explore Faerūn" [PP, p.52] but it would seem to be somewhere in the range of 300 - 600. I've seen another reference to an Ao-mediated swap between the Mulhorandi pantheon and the Faerūnian, involving Hoar/Assuran and Mystra, but I'm not sure if it's canon. In any case, I haven't been able to pin that one down either or to determine if it occurs at the same time as the Bast/Mask swap. It presumably occurs before the fall of Unther in 679 if "Old Empires" is a literal reference to the (Second) Empires and not simply to the geographical region occupied by Mulhorand, Unther and Chessenta.
Also from Powers & Pantheons,
"Some time after the fall of Myth Drannor [in 714], Bast began to experiment with the darker side of pleasure and fell under the influence of Shar, Mistress of the Night." [PP, p.52]
Because temples to Shar and Sharess exist in Calimshan in 808 [GHotR], this gives at most a 100-year period for Bast and Shar to hook up.
Thus, Bast must join with Zandilar and give birth to Selvetarm some time in the period 200 - 800 at the outside, or 500 - 700 at the narrowest.
According to GHotR, between 870 - 880 "Woodsfolk and adventurers from Velprin meet the Yuir elves, who had avoided contact with their human neighbors for centuries."
Among other things, Zandilar was "said to have used her feminine wiles to gain vital information for deities of other pantheons and to persuade human chieftains and kings to leave the Yuir in peace." [PP, p.52]. If she convinced humans to stay out of the Yuirwood for at least 200 years ("for centuries") before they finally began returing in ~870, this would be consistent with her existence as an independent being in about the 7th century, which is right smack in the middle of that target period between 500 - 700.
As well, her son Selvetarm "walked a solitary way for many centuries" (DD, p.37) before destroying Zanassu during his 1000-year exile (some time between 292 and 1292). If two is 'a couple', three is 'a few', and four is 'many', this means that Selvetarm must exist no later than four centuries before the end of that period, i.e. ~900, which is also broadly consistent with the above. Again, the date of 808 for Sharess's temple in Calimshan means he must exist before that date.
All in all, then, Sharess's history would seem to proceed roughly as follows:
-2489 .. Bast arrives in Faerun
200-500 .. Bast absorbs Felidae
300-600 .. Bast leaves Mulhorand
500-700 .. Bast joins with Zandilar and gives birth to Selvetarm
715-800 .. Bast falls under the sway of Shar
1358 .. Sharess is freed from Shar's domination by Sune
I would therefore most likely put Selvetarm's birth early in the 7th century DR.
If anyone can help nail these numbers down any better, I'd appreciate it.
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Writings on Sharess: Thoughts & Prayers by Xaviera ~ High Priestess of Sharess |
Edited by - xaviera on 21 May 2011 05:05:01 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 21 May 2011 : 13:45:37
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I am fairly certain the Hoar/Mystra 'swap' is canon, but I have (unfortunately) no way of checking that anymore. P&P is the most likely source to hold the answer.
In my HB FR lore, I have it where Baast (under yet-another name) was already present on Toril long before the rest of her pantheon (her and Set have a much more 'primal' set of origins then the rest of them). That's not canon, of course, and doesn't affect her relationship with Zandilar or her existence as Sharess.
Good research, though - Thanks for sharing it.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 21 May 2011 : 20:32:21
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This is great. Thanks for this!
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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xaviera
Learned Scribe
Canada
149 Posts |
Posted - 22 May 2011 : 04:56:34
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The section on Selvetarm in Demihuman Deities gives a lot of information about Zanassu, the demon whom Selvetarm slew, and specifically identifies him with Selvetarm. It is said that "for 66 years ... Zanassu-or a powerful tanar'ri claiming to be him - dwelt within the heart of the Apostolaeum" and that after that time, Zanassu left and did not return. It seems strange that Selvetarm destroyed Zanassu and assimilated his power, only for the demon lord to return to the Prime from his thousand-year exile in 1292.
I assume, therefore, that the Zanassu who reappeared was a pawn of Selvetarm and who, when no longer needed (i.e. once Selvetarm had fully absorbed the demon's power), was discarded. Selvetarm could by this time have had total control over the physical form of Zanassu, which was retained as a puppet until even that was totally sucked dry and discarded (in a very spider-like fashion  ).
"During the Time of Troubles, however, Zanassu's hold over the government of Volothamp swiftly dissipated in the magical chaos of the time." At about the same time, Selvetarm goes on a rampage in Eryndlyn, possibly in a fit of pique for having lost the hold on Volothamp he gained via Zanassu.
Considering the history in this way allows us to place Selvetarm's conquest of Zanassu quite near to 1292 (how long does it take a demipower to absorb the attributes of a "minor Abyssal Lord" anyway?), leaving him the 600 - 700 years prior to that time ("many centuries") to make his way around the world and to start becoming closer to Eilistraee before finally being manipulated by Lolth into slaying Zanassu. He's probably pretty much of a non-entity for most of that time and only begins to gain significant power in the 13th century. This also fits roughly with a timeline of him being born in about the 7th century. In fact, the first half of the 600's is a time of wars, plagues and natural disasters, and it seems like an appropriate time for the demise of one demipower and the birth of another.
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Writings on Sharess: Thoughts & Prayers by Xaviera ~ High Priestess of Sharess |
Edited by - xaviera on 22 May 2011 05:06:41 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 22 May 2011 : 14:11:51
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My own assumption is that anytime one being absorbs another being's power (which is synonymous with absorbing the being itself), the end-result can assume any of either being's abilities and appearance, if they so care to (which comes in handy when trying to also absorb that being's followers).
In other words, when a 'cosmic being' (just about any outsider, really) absorbs another, the 'loser' becomes something akin to an appendage on the winner. That way, an avatar of Selvetarm that appears like Zannasu actually is Zanassu, for all intents and purposes - Zanassu still exists on some level as a part of Selvetarm.
This thinking helps me explain other anomalies, like tripatriate deities (and even Sharn). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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xaviera
Learned Scribe
Canada
149 Posts |
Posted - 23 May 2011 : 02:05:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
My own assumption is that anytime one being absorbs another being's power (which is synonymous with absorbing the being itself), the end-result can assume any of either being's abilities and appearance, if they so care to (which comes in handy when trying to also absorb that being's followers).
I quite agree with you. The entities that make up the different aspects of a deity are to some extent compartmentalized while still being the same. I suppose the closest real world analogue would be that you behave differently at work than you do with your friends, and still differently with your family. Each group also has different knowledge and expectations of you.
How a deity appears will depend in part on the deity's own whim, but is also very likely to be dictated by the expectations of the worshipper. To someone of Mulhorand or Unther, Sharess will appear as the fierce cat-headed woman who is Anhur's lieutenant and foe of Set. To an elf, she will appear as the flighty forest nymph Zandilar. And to anyone else she will likely manifest as a seductive human woman. Each of these avatars will speak and act differently, though there are of course underlying commonalities.
I can envision a deity who finds a new avatar of itself being created by the belief of a subgroup of its worshippers that have broken away from the main church. One could imagine that persecution of the schismatic sect would occur at the behest of the deity itself because it does not wish to be obligated to behave in the way its new worshippers perceive it - that is, the newly created manifestation is not to the deity's liking. In a sense, then, the deity may be compelled to war against itself to preserve its own integrity. On the flip side, a deity absorbing another may suddenly find itself significantly changed and unable to do anything about it if the new personality component is too strong. I think this would make for a fascinating story arc in which two aspects of one god contest against themselves for control of the overarching entity, which battle is carried into the prime plane through its worshippers.
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Writings on Sharess: Thoughts & Prayers by Xaviera ~ High Priestess of Sharess |
Edited by - xaviera on 23 May 2011 02:07:26 |
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xaviera
Learned Scribe
Canada
149 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2011 : 22:04:58
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I continue to research this topic... just because!
Not much has changed this time around - mainly I've pushed the birth of Selvetarm and the joining of Bast & Zandilar to a later date on the (almost completely unjustified) assumption that the drow attacks in the region of Cormanthor are mirrored by lesser attacks on the elves of the Yuirwood that were of insufficient interest to sages to warrant anything other than passing mention in the history books.
Relevant dates from "A Grand History of the Realms"
-2489 ..... The Mulhorandi pantheon arrives in Faerūn
-1500 ..... Untheric expansion, start of settlement of the Wizards' Reach (The Priador)
-1048 ..... End of the First Mulhorandi Empire
-734 ....... End of the First Untheric Empire
-331 ....... Drow expelled from the Twisted Tower
-135 ....... Mulhorandi found Kensten (Bezantur) on the coast of Wizards' Reach
-100-250 . Humans beging to settle the Wizards' Reach (southern Aglarond)
163 ........ Altumbel founded
194 ........ Drow re-garrison the Twisted Tower
205 ........ Mulhorand & Unther exterminate Arkaiuns; end of their empires prophesied
400 ........ Escalant founded on the Wizards' Reach
482 ........ Cities of the Wizards' Reach rebel against Unther, form the League of Samathar
500 ........ Drow expelled from the Twisted Tower again
504 ........ War against the League of Samathar by Unther
625 ........ Escalant joins the League of Samathar against Unther
661 ........ Height of Myth Drannor's peace & prosperity
670 ........ Outbreak of drow within the northwestern forests (Cormanthor &/or Border Forest)
673 ........ Hillsafar founded, partially as bulwark against drow
677 ........ War continues, destruction of Untheric fleet
679 ........ End of 2nd Untheric Empire
710 ........ Drow attacks in Cormyr
713 ........ The Twisted Tower falls again to the drow
714 ........ Destruction of Myth Drannor
756-761 .. Settlement of Aglarond's northern coast begins
773 ........ Founding of Velprin (Aglarond)
800 ........ Drow influence in Ashaba valley (Cormanthor) at its height
800-850 .. Settlement of Thesk by homesteaders from Impiltur
802-830 .. Intense drow activity in region of Dambrath
808 ........ Temples of Shar & Sharess destroyed in Calimshan
870-880 .. Contact made with Yuir elves by humans from Velprin
900-1050 . Humans & elves mingle in the Yuirwood
906 ........ Ashaba valley reconquered from the drow
922 ........ Fall of the Second Mulhorandi Empire
937 ........ Establishment of Thesk
953 ........ Chessenta conquers the wizards' reach
1358 ...... Time of Troubles
Origins
"When the Mulhorandi deities emigrated to Faerūn, Bast accompanied them." (PP 51)
It is quite clear that Bast arrives in Faerūn around -2489 DR.
The Peak of the Old Empires
Human expansion into the area near the Yuirwood begins as early as -1500 DR with the settlement of The Priador by colonists from Unther. However, nothing much else happens until Bezantur is founded by Mulhorand in -135 DR.
"One hundred and fifty years before the founding of Cormyr [in 26 DR], the nations of Narfell and Raumathar were dead, their people scattered into tiny enclaves, their lands in ruins. Mulhorand and Unther decided to pick up the pieces." (OE 4)
Mulhorand and Unther begin their expansion into the regions that will later become known as Thay and Aglarond during the years -135 to -124. The Second Empires of Mulhorand and Unther may therefore be said to begin circa -130 DR.
Activity in the region picks up over the following centuries, with settlers from Unther migrating along the southern coast of Aglarond and into Altumbel by 163 DR. Mulhorand pushes in from the east and founds Nethjet just over the Tannath Mountains. Although the expansion slows by about 250 DR as the empires reach their maximum extents, some population growth and/or immigration continues in the region; Escalant is founded as late as 400 DR.
In 205 DR, Mulhorand and Unther exterminate the Arkaiuns at Eltabranar; a dying shaman prophesies that their empires shall soon crumble. Thus, the empires can be said to reach their peak some time between 205 and 250 DR.
However, nothing lasts forever. The cities of the Wizards' Reach are strong enough by 482 DR to form the League of Samathar and rebel against Unther. This year marks the beginning of the empires' decline.
Godswaps
The period 205-482 is a very busy time in the Old Empires. In particular, there were considerable changes in the realms of the gods as various deities appeared, were slain, absorbed, driven away or went a-wandering.
"At the height of the second empires of Mulhorand and Unther, numerous beast cults gained popularity for a time.... and in a very short time the more powerful Bast subsumed Felidae's portfolio and position into her own." (PP 51-2)
The appearance of Felidae and her (his? its?) absorption into Bast therefore occurs at some time between 205 and 482. The migration of Mask to the Old Empires probably occurred around the same time.
"When Ao allowed Mask to expand his geographic sphere of influence to include the thieves of the Old Empires... he required that the Faerūnian pantheon accept a Mulhorandi power into their geographic sphere of influence in exchange. Bast immediately set off to explore Faerūn." (PP 52)
Clearly, the date of Bast's departure from Mulhorand is contingent on Mask's arrival.
"[The Dice of Chancelessness were] created by Huriot, an enterprising follower of Mask and the greatest Prince of Thieves that Skuld has ever known." (OE 83)
Huriot lived approximately five centuries before ca. 1357, meaning that Mask was worshipped in Unther by the mid 800s at the latest.
Although nothing more specific is known about the movements of this particular deity, other similar changes were taking place during the time of Unther and Mulhorand's Second Empires. Of particular importance is Ao's opening of the Old Empires to other deities.
"Ramman is a relatively new deity, introduced into Unther during the height of the Second Empire." (OE 45)
The semi-canonical (?) source "Ancient Gods: 'Forgotten Deities' and the Old Empires" provides some more detailed information.
"Later, sometime at the height of the Second Untheric Empire, Ramman mysteriously found a way into the Realms where he battled and defeated Assuran for the godly mantle of war and storms." (AG 11)
"Ramman ... was a relatively new deity, introduced into Unther during the height of the Second Empire. Shortly after his arrival in the Realms, Ramman drove Assuran (Hoar), the god of revenge and retribution, and the previous Untheric god of thunder, from Unther following a tumultuous conflict between the two gods and their worshipers." (AG 20)
From this we can conclude that Ramman arrived in Faerūn and drove out Assuran within the period 205-482.
We also find that the departure of Assuran from Unther and the arrival of Mystra are related.
"Assuran had been driven from Unther by Ramman centuries earlier and allowed by Ao to gain worshipers in the sphere of influence of the Faerūnian pantheon in exchange for allowing Mystras worship in Unther." (AG 11)
The exact dates are not known but, as noted above, the 2nd Untheric Empire begins its decline in 482 with the formation of the League of Samathar, and collapsed entirely in 679, shortly after the fleet sent to destroy the League was forced to turn back because of storms and Gilgeam was compelled to recognize the League.
"As the centuries passed and Unther declined in prosperity and influence, as taxes rose and the people's hatred grew, Gilgeam became a cruel and jealous lord. All other deities, with the exception of Ishtar and Ramman (who were too popular to persecute) were banished from the plane." (OE 44)
"As the era of the Second Untheric Empire came to a close, Gilgeam managed to drive the remaining Untheric manifestations, Anshar and Druaga, from Realmspace, except for Ramman and Ishtar/Isis - who were too popular to persecute - and the reemerging Tiamat, long an enemy of the other Untheric gods." (AG 11)
From this we learn that the remaining original gods of Unther were forced out in the two centuries after 482 or thereabouts.
Thus, there were at least two (and possibly three) movements of deities in and out of the Old Empires.
The questions of interest here are:
a) was Mystra allowed access to Unther immediately after Assuran's expulsion or did she arrive later?
b) was the the Bast/Mask swap i) part of the Assuran/Mystra swap, ii) part of the second wave of deific expulsions from Unther, or iii) unrelated but (presumably) occurring around the same time?
Since the Assuran/Mystra exchange was restricted to Unther, whereas the Bast/Mask exchange was less specific (Bast came from Mulhorand and Mask entered the Old Empires in general), they were probably separate events.
Unfortunately, the sources don't allow us to determine the answers to these questions with any certainty, so we are left to conclude simply that the Bast/Mask swap occurs some time after 205. It must occur before c. 857 when Huriot's dice are made, but as Sharess exists by that name in 808 DR it must occur earlier, most probably in the Untheric peak/decline period of 205-679, particularly if Mask was allowed into Unther while it was still an Empire, rather than after.
Bast probably leaves Mulhorand some time during the period 250-680. My personal inclination is to place that event sometime in the 3rd or 4th century DR (400-600).
Zandilar and Human Expansion
"Some time later, Bast acquired the portfolio and aspect of an elven demipower worshiped by the elves of the Yuirwood.... Zandilar was a joyful and tragic demipower who is said to have used her feminine wiles to gain vital information from deities of other pantheons and to persuade human chieftains and kings to leave the Yuir in peace." (PP 52)
Some probing of at least the outskirts of the Yuirwood must have occurred in the millenia after humans first entered the area around -1500 DR, though nothing is written in the Grand History; peaks in such inquisitive activity could reasonably be expected during the great period of human expansion (-100 to 250) and during the two centuries of war between the League of Samathar and Unther (504-677) as resources are sought and armies manoeuvred around the narrow strip of coast south of the forest.
"Unther, which had declined greatly, could not reach the elves of of Yuirwood with its traders or armies" (OE 4)
There was at least some attempt at penetration, therefore, of the forest during the years of Unther's decline, 482-679, most likely during the war itself (504-677).
After Unther falls, there is presumably a brief period of consolidation and recovery before human expansion begins anew, with the settlement of Aglarond's northern coast in the quarter-century after 756 DR and the founding of Velprin in 773. Thus, settlement continues around the coast after the war but still avoids the interior. Finally, though, after another hundred years, humans push into the forest far enough to finally encounter the Yuir elves, and over the next couple of centuries the two races intermingle, ending the isolation of the Yuir for good.
We may assume that Zandilar was working to keep the Yuir inviolate during at least some of these periods of external pressure, such that human migrations moved around the Yuir until there was nowhere else to go and the forest was finally breached in the late 800s.
"Some time after the fall of Myth Drannor, Bast began to experiment with the darker side of pleasure and fell under the influence of Shar, Mistress of the Night." (PP 52)
However, we know that she very likely left the region some time around 714, as it is unlikely that Shar would be operating against a Yuir deity within the Yuirwood itself. The elves presumably rely on their own wiles to stay hidden from humans for another century and a half.
Zandilar and the Drow
"When the Yuir elves began to falter in a series of battles with drow armies, Zandilar attempted to seduce the dark elven deity Vhaeraun either to gain information or to elicit his assistance in battling the forces of Lolth." (PP 52)
There is no information in the Grand History regarding drow activity in or near the Yuirwood - the majority of it appears to be in the region of Cormanthor with other conflicts here and there (e.g. Dambrath, 802-830). In the absence of known facts, we can speculate that, while the focus of the drow may have been on the elven lands to the west, some incursions into the Yuirwood might have occurred at about the same time. That is, there may have been parallel but minor campaigns against the Yuir (though they may have amounted to no more than skirmishes compared to what was happening in Cormanthor).
Myth Drannor reaches its height around 661. Nine years later there is an outbreak of drow in the forests of Cormanthor (and possibly in the Border Woods to the northwest as well). Gains by the dark elves increase over the years and reach their peak around 800; Myth Drannor itself is destroyed in 714. Drow activity reaches its height around 800 and continues for another century until the Ashaba Valley is taken from them in 906 DR.
"In gratitude and out of necessity, the severely weakened Zandilar voluntarily merged her essence with that of Bast. A reinvigorated Bast/Zandilar was then strong enough to help the Yuir elves drive off the drow forces for a time." (PP 52)
Zandilar must be present in the Yuirwood in 670 or thereabouts if that's when the battles with the drow begin. She probably leaves the region of Aglarond at the time of, or shortly after, the fall of Myth Drannor. In fact, we may suspect that the reason she falls under the sway of Shar, Mistress of the Night and goddess of loss, is because of the failure of the elves to keep the drow at bay, though her own efforts in the Yuirwood may have had some success. Although she (with Bast) is able to save the Yuirwood (such that it remains largely inviolate into the late 800s), the collapse of a major elven kingdom leads her to despair.
Birth of Selvetarm
Another question is when Bast arrived in the Yuirwood. For this we need to determine the date of Selvetarm's birth. We assume from the above that it must be after the drow attacks begin around 670 and before the fall of Myth Drannor in 714.
"Selvetarm is the offspring of an ill-fated tryst between Vhaeraun and Zandilar the Dancer.... The Masked Lord betrayed Zandilar and imprisoned her, and only the timely assistance of Bast, an errant Mulhorandi demipower, allowed the Dancer to escape. Selvetarm was birthed shortly thereafter when the weakened Zandilar voluntarily merged her essence with that of Bast, creating the goddess now known as Sharess." (DE 37)
The only other information we know that might be relevant is his victory over the demon Zanassu.
"Selvetarm walked a solitary way for many centuries.... When the Spider Demon lost much of his power after a conflict on the Prime (against Qysara Shoon V of the Shoon Empire) Lolth convinced Selvetarm to destroy Zanassu" (DE 37)
"Zanassu was banished back to the Abyss by the qysara in the Year of Frostfires (292 DR).... his avatar did not actually return to the Apostolaeum until the Year of the Wandering Waves (1292 DR), 1,000 years to the day after his banishment." (DE 38-9)
"For 66 years ... Zanassu-or a powerful tanar'ri claiming to be him - dwelt within the heart of the Apostolaeum." (DE 39)
After 1358 (i.e. the Time of Troubles), Zanassu left the Apostolaeum and did not return. It seems strange that Selvetarm would destroy Zanassu and assimilate his power, only for the demon lord to return to the Prime from his thousand-year exile in 1292.
I assume, therefore, that Selvetarm destroyed Zanassu shortly before 1292 and that the Zanassu who reappeared was a pawn of Selvetarm who, when no longer needed (i.e. once Selvetarm had fully absorbed the demon's power), was eventually discarded. Selvetarm could by this time have had total control over the physical form of Zanassu, which was retained as a puppet until even that was totally sucked dry and discarded (in a very spider-like fashion). It could also have been Selvetarm himself taking the demon's form.
"During the Time of Troubles, however, Zanassu's hold over the government of Volothamp swiftly dissipated in the magical chaos of the time." (DE 39)
"During the Time of Troubles, the avatar of Selvetarm rampaged through the drow city [of Eryndlyn], attacking strongholds of the followers of Ghaunadaur and Vhaeraun. Priests of Lolth hailed the monster as the swordarm of Lolth, sent to demonstrate her absolute rule." (DE 39)
Perhaps Selvetarm's outburst was a fit of pique for having lost the hold on Volothamp he had gained via Zanassu.
If two centuries are 'a couple', three centuries are 'a few' and four or more are 'many', then Selvetarm 'walked a solitary way' for at least 400 years before 1292. Regrettably, this doesn't help much because we know that he existed prior to 714 DR. On the other hand, we can probably assume that it wasn't much earlier.
Again, assuming that drow attacks in the Yuirwood are occurring from 670 onward, this places Selvetarm's birth in the 40 years immediately afterward.
Sharess
Sharess fell under the sway of Shar some time after 714, but before 808 when a temple to the Mistresses of the Forbidden Fruit is destroyed in Calimshan.
"Sharess was never fully absorbed by Shar, however, and during the Time of Troubles she was released from this dark link by Sune." (PP 52)
She remains enslaved, however, until released by Sune about 600 years later.
Tentative Timeline
-2489 ....... Bast arrives in Faerūn
205-482 ... Bast subsumes Felidae
250-680 ... Bast sets off to explore Faerūn
670-714 ... Bast joins with Zandilar, Selvetarm is born
~714 ........ Bast leaves the Yuirwood
714-808 ... Bast corrupted by Shar, becomes Sharess
1358 ........ Sharess freed from Shar
References
A Grand History of the Realms
[AG] Ancient Gods: 'Forgotten Deities' and the Old Empires
[DE] Demihuman Deities
[OE] Old Empires
[PP] Powers & Pantheons
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Writings on Sharess: Thoughts & Prayers by Xaviera ~ High Priestess of Sharess |
Edited by - xaviera on 20 Jul 2011 14:00:24 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6643 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2011 : 07:57:11
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I provided the basis for a drow presence in and around the lands of the Unapprooachable East in GHotR - look for a reference to Narathmault in or about -10,000 DR.
There is significant history to be added to these lands and the Aglarondan peninsula is one very interesting kettle of fish. I've worked on filling some of the gaps for my own personal FR work but there's so much extra stuff that needs to go in so seeing stuff like this is heartening.
Thanks for the read, xaviera.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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see
Learned Scribe
235 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2011 : 21:05:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I am fairly certain the Hoar/Mystra 'swap' is canon, but I have (unfortunately) no way of checking that anymore. P&P is the most likely source to hold the answer.
P&P, page 96.
"(Assuran/Hoar had been driven from Unther by Ramman centuries earlier and allowed by Ao to gain worshipers in the sphere of influence of the Faerunian pantheon in exchange for allowing Mystra's worship in Unther.)" |
Edited by - see on 19 Jul 2011 21:08:25 |
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xaviera
Learned Scribe
Canada
149 Posts |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 20 Nov 2016 : 20:00:40
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I'm rezzing this thread, mostly because I was looking for something (and couldn't find what I wanted), and this thread had a mention of said piece of lore - Eltabranar. Not precisely related to the topic, BUT the research Xaviera did on this is amazing, and should be 'brought forward', especially since it DOES directly relate to another thread recently that mentioned Shar trying to absorb Sharess (and whether she was ever able to fully achieve that, or it was just a 'work in progress' is still up for debate).
It also mentions Felidae, who I had been unaware of, and she makes a nice addition to my deific musings (filed under 'feline arch-type proto-gods', of which Toril actually has many).
So enough of all that rambling and now for my question: In the FR errata located here at the 'Keep, I was re-reading all the corrections for the Shining South (for the umpteenth time), and I noted it says that Eltabranar was first mentioned in P&P. I lost all my notes from that source awhile ago, and the pdf I have of it is non-OCR (so I can't just search it). Anyone (Krash?) know the exact page number I can find it?  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 21 Nov 2016 02:44:24 |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6643 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2016 : 01:08:43
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First reference is actually in the Myrkul write-up in "Faiths and Avatars". A bit more info is in the Eltab write-up in "Champions of Ruin".
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2016 : 03:25:43
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So there is no reference in P&P? Guess the errata needs an errata.
Thanks George. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 21 Nov 2016 03:33:15 |
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1621 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2016 : 21:47:51
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I did some digging of my own and I realize that Sharess wasn't called Sharess until after she came under the sway of Shar, I believe it may have been Shar or Shar worshippers named her Sharess, the simularities in names are no accident, before that she was still called Bast, or Zandilar by the Elves.
Important to note that Sharess was Toril bound until after the Time of Troubles, which begs that question what happened to the souls of her worshippers before that.
As for Zandilar, Zandilar predates the Elves of the Yuirwood, she was originally worshipped by the humans that lived their before the Elves assimilated them and took the Yuirwood Pantheon for their very own, with the Yuirwood Pantheon eventually being assimated into the Seldarine. So Zandilar is very ancient.
Also important to note that both Bast and Zandilar would have been invovled in the Orcgate Wars, Bast was still in Mulhorand at the time and the Yuirwood, where Zandilar lived was invovled in the war as well.
Sharess at some point created the Werecats.
One side effect of having been under Shar's control for awhile, is that Sharess is the only good Deity in D&D linked to fiends, she sometimes manifests by sending none evil Alu-Fiends (Cambions in 5e terms), and even has the title the Succubi of Sensation. Now that Succubi are indepedant operators in 5e, neither Demons or Devils, I could see her command them too. They do call her the Succubi of Sensation after all.
OOC history below.
Also interesting to note is that Sharess did not become a Cat Goddess until Powers and Pantheons, where she was linked with Bast, Zandilar, and Felidae. Before that all that was know what she was a Goddess of Excess worshipped by Orgies and Feasting, and that it was possibly, although uncertain she was an aspect of Shar.
Bast wasn't even originally one of the Mulhorandi Gods who arrived to libertate the Mulhorandi people, which is why Bast isn't mentioned in Mulhorandi 2e Product.
Powers and Pantheons is largely what gave Sharess her background, before that she was just the Goddess of Excess.
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1621 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2016 : 22:18:57
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Also note in Sharess' history that after the Spellplague she and Llira became Exarchs of Sune, before that they were just allies. And don't ask me what an Exarch is, I still don't fully know. Also in 5e Mulhorand and its Pantheon disappeared.
In 5e Sharess hasn't been mentioned yet, although Bast is listed in the Egyptian Pantheon in the PHB.
But also in 5e the Mulhorand Pantheon was incarnated again and they retook Mulhorand so Sharess may or may not be apart of that. It annoys me that we don't don't know.
We need a complete FRCG and we need it even more now after VGTM as its a great book, but its oddly lacking in FR lore. |
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1621 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2016 : 22:27:18
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http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/History_of_the_Yuirwood_(timeline) a timeline of the Yuirwood going back to when Green Elves settled it (Zandilar the Dancer actually predates the Green Elves, so she was around prior to -9800 DR, she was around for Yuireshanyaar the Green and Star Elf Empire.
Bast aspect gets most of the attention for Sharess, but Zandilar has been on Toril for far longer and might be a native deity or possibly a Feywild Deity or Archfey who achieved Apothosis.
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Edited by - Gyor on 23 Nov 2016 22:31:25 |
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xaviera
Learned Scribe
Canada
149 Posts |
Posted - 25 Nov 2016 : 15:44:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Gyor
One side effect of having been under Shar's control for awhile, is that Sharess is the only good Deity in D&D linked to fiends, she sometimes manifests by sending none evil Alu-Fiends (Cambions in 5e terms), and even has the title the Succubi of Sensation.
I had assumed that this title wasn't meant to be taken literally - rather, that the appellation of 'succubus' was given her as an indicator of her emphasis on pleasure (being her only similarity with succubi), rather than any actual evil tendencies, and that whatever evil creatures (cf. Rakshasa) frequent her domain or even pay homage to her do so out of their own interest rather than them being specifically assigned to her in the cosmic hierarchy. Nevertheless, this is an interesting interpretation.
quote:
Powers and Pantheons is largely what gave Sharess her background, before that she was just the Goddess of Excess.
As different editions/products will rewrite the timeline, it's not going to be possible to reconcile them all. From our point of view this may have been the way the story unfolded, but from the in-game perspective of 3ed (-ish) that I've been taking, she went from cats to pleasure, rather than the other way around. I don't like the whole 'exarchs' thing, so to me she was never an aspect of Sune - ally or companion, maybe, or possibly even student. In this respect, her evolution will depend largely on which edition you pick.
quote:
As for Zandilar, Zandilar predates the Elves of the Yuirwood, she was originally worshipped by the humans that lived their before the Elves assimilated them and took the Yuirwood Pantheon for their very own, with the Yuirwood Pantheon eventually being assimated into the Seldarine. So Zandilar is very ancient.
quote:
Bast aspect gets most of the attention for Sharess, but Zandilar has been on Toril for far longer and might be a native deity or possibly a Feywild Deity or Archfey who achieved Apothosis.
I like this. I've always felt that Zandilar didn't get enough credit for her role in the combination. Bast may have provided the energy to revitalize Zandilar, as well as the wanderlust and feline portfolio, but Zandilar is going to be the major contributor to the combined deity's psychology.
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Writings on Sharess: Thoughts & Prayers by Xaviera ~ High Priestess of Sharess |
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1621 Posts |
Posted - 25 Nov 2016 : 18:27:58
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quote:
Originally posted by xaviera
quote:
Originally posted by Gyor
One side effect of having been under Shar's control for awhile, is that Sharess is the only good Deity in D&D linked to fiends, she sometimes manifests by sending none evil Alu-Fiends (Cambions in 5e terms), and even has the title the Succubi of Sensation.
I had assumed that this title wasn't meant to be taken literally - rather, that the appellation of 'succubus' was given her as an indicator of her emphasis on pleasure (being her only similarity with succubi), rather than any actual evil tendencies, and that whatever evil creatures (cf. Rakshasa) frequent her domain or even pay homage to her do so out of their own interest rather than them being specifically assigned to her in the cosmic hierarchy. Nevertheless, this is an interesting interpretation.
quote:
Powers and Pantheons is largely what gave Sharess her background, before that she was just the Goddess of Excess.
As different editions/products will rewrite the timeline, it's not going to be possible to reconcile them all. From our point of view this may have been the way the story unfolded, but from the in-game perspective of 3ed (-ish) that I've been taking, she went from cats to pleasure, rather than the other way around. I don't like the whole 'exarchs' thing, so to me she was never an aspect of Sune - ally or companion, maybe, or possibly even student. In this respect, her evolution will depend largely on which edition you pick.
quote:
As for Zandilar, Zandilar predates the Elves of the Yuirwood, she was originally worshipped by the humans that lived their before the Elves assimilated them and took the Yuirwood Pantheon for their very own, with the Yuirwood Pantheon eventually being assimated into the Seldarine. So Zandilar is very ancient.
quote:
Bast aspect gets most of the attention for Sharess, but Zandilar has been on Toril for far longer and might be a native deity or possibly a Feywild Deity or Archfey who achieved Apothosis.
I like this. I've always felt that Zandilar didn't get enough credit for her role in the combination. Bast may have provided the energy to revitalize Zandilar, as well as the wanderlust and feline portfolio, but Zandilar is going to be the major contributor to the combined deity's psychology.
Exarchs weren't aspects of a deity, more like Leituents, the top servants of a God and usually Demigods or Saints or Chosen, it wasn't really clear exactly, but functionally they were a Gods most powerful servants. In 4e they even had portifios of their own. Fzoul was the Exarch to Bane and had a Portofilio, which I guess that makes Fzoul a demigod now.
I agree with you on Zandilar, because it hedonism of Zandilar doubled down on Felidae hedonism, and whatever minor hedonism Bast haf to begin with. I don't think Bast, even with Felidae in her, would have entered Shar's orbit without Zandilar's lust for pleasure.
As for Fiends in Sharess' service, it actually mentions in Powers and Pantheons that she manifests sometimes using Alu Fiends. In 3e they tone it down to manifesting as Tieflings, because they didn't detail Alu-Fiends in 3e.
So now that Succubi are free agents, who will work for Night Hags, Rakshasa, Devils, Demons, Yugoloths and other assorted beings, and they'd been known to sell their young/eggs to other beings, I could see Succubi in Sharess' service.
So its not unconsevible that the Church of Sharess or Sharess herself could buy a clunch of Succubi eggs, and say use the rite of the divine minion, to turn them into Divine Minions of Sharess, essentially Chaotic Good Celestial Succubi who can turn into Cats, Lions, Cheetahs, and are immune to fear. They'd hatch as good beings.
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Edited by - Gyor on 25 Nov 2016 18:48:18 |
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1621 Posts |
Posted - 25 Nov 2016 : 18:57:37
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| Side note 5e Night Hags seem functionally like a more powerful unisex verison Succubi, uglier in their native form, but they both can change shape to make themselves more desirable, both can move freely between the Ethereal Plane and the Mortal Plane, and both hunt for souls to damn, both are Neutral Evil, and Succubi can even be found in the service of Night Hags. Not really about Sharess, but I've been thinking about it lately. |
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1621 Posts |
Posted - 13 Dec 2016 : 16:50:23
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| It still p**es me off that Sharess was left out of the SCAG. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11690 Posts |
Posted - 14 Dec 2016 : 16:08:15
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| Just wondering... was she mentioned amongst the 4th edition gods? I ask because I wonder if she hasn't been gone from the world for the last hundred years, but returning with the Mulhorandi pantheon's return. Given that she's also a cat goddess, this does fit with my own purposes, but I hadn't really looked hard. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1621 Posts |
Posted - 14 Dec 2016 : 22:16:02
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| Yes, in 4e FRCG it was mentioned she was an Exarch of Sune and dwelled in the Gates of the Moon with Sune, Llira, and Selune. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2017 : 18:28:28
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*** Raise scroll ***
Rezzing this thread yet again, because 'reasons' (plus, its just some damn good research)
quote:
Originally posted by xaviera
"As the era of the Second Untheric Empire came to a close, Gilgeam managed to drive the remaining Untheric manifestations, Anshar and Druaga, from Realmspace, except for Ramman and Ishtar/Isis - who were too popular to persecute - and the reemerging Tiamat, long an enemy of the other Untheric gods." (AG 11) <snip>
C'ont...
References
A Grand History of the Realms
[AG] Ancient Gods: 'Forgotten Deities' and the Old Empires
[DE] Demihuman Deities
[OE] Old Empires
[PP] Powers & Pantheons
I was completely unaware of ANY FR source that mentions 'Druaga' - what IS Ancient Gods: 'Forgotten Deities' and the Old Empires?  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6351 Posts |
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1621 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2017 : 23:38:15
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| Someone on DMguild did a little thing on June, mostly based on 4e, but it's includes stuff on Sharess. |
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Topic |
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History of Sharess?
