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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
 Posted - 10 Feb 2012 : 23:46:43
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Hi there...
Was thinking about something... Is there a known form of magic, that supersedes saves and spell resistance, dead or antimagic and of cause the ban of Mystra???. Can mortals learn to wield a power, more powerful than The Art???
For instance something that would affect primordials, elders and deities alike??? A form of magic where level 9 spells are just cantrips compared???
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7969 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2012 : 01:01:25
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| Yes, it's called psionics. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4685 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2012 : 02:03:34
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There are magics that indeed appear to bypass at least one on you list of things to by pass.
Of if any of these meet all of them I am uncertain.
Rune Magic
Name Magic
Herbal magic
Unnamed magic
High Elven Magic.
Of and if you consider psionics magic instead of a force of will. *wink* |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2012 : 02:45:35
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I've seen most of the Realmslore that refers to what we would deem as "supernormal magic" -- say, in terms of 10th-level spells, the true dweomers we've seen in previous editions, the epic magic system of 3e, and so forth -- are all largely so incorporated into transitory rulings and embracing uncertain rules artefacts, that I often find it very difficult to take any of it seriously.
Rune magic, truename magic, herbal/alchemy magic, pact magic [3e core D&D], and shadow magic [again, core 3e D&D], are usually more sensible systems -- especially rune magic and the herbal/alchemy system presented by Steven Schend in the 3rd party Alchemy & Herbalists tome from Bastion Press. I borrow from that system heavily when I utilise either alchemical or herbal arcane lore in my Realms. A highly recommended source! |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7969 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2012 : 06:34:54
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| Shadow magic, as introduced in the 2E Tome of Magic, was really little more than just another (exotic) "school" a specialist wizard could select. Of course, back then canon asserted there was exactly and only one Weave, ruled by Mystra. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2012 : 10:43:49
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Shadow magic is not more powerful. Just different. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2012 : 10:56:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Yes, it's called psionics.
Well this allows a saving throw...
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
Rune Magic
Name Magic
Herbal magic
Unnamed magic
High Elven Magic.
Besides elven high magic, where can information on these forms of magic be found?
And lastly... what I am thinking of, was something that down the line of a magic form that resembles the form of magic deities uses to create and alter the multiverse. Does such a thing exist?
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2384 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2012 : 11:26:54
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It's about power sources. So, once the Weave is off, what's left to power special effects are: Shadow Weave, raw magic (good luck with that, but e.g. things formed by Wildfire spell will remain), direct access to other planes (e.g. undead), internal (psionics, essence - e.g. a fire elemental still burns). Dragonmagic may be conversion of raw magic or another variant of the Weave magic (posted a question).
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Shadow magic, as introduced in the 2E Tome of Magic, was really little more than just another (exotic) "school" a specialist wizard could select. Of course, back then canon asserted there was exactly and only one Weave, ruled by Mystra.
Er, you're mixing it. People can use shadow-related spells with normal Weave. Elminster and later Harpers used these a lot, BTW. Conversely, the Shadow Weave as a power source can support almost any spells not in that school of effect - e.g. wall of force or acid arrow aren't Shadow magic, but since they don't fall into few exclusion categories, a Shadow Adept still can use them just fine. |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
Edited by - TBeholder on 11 Feb 2012 11:27:21 |
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 12 Feb 2012 : 14:48:02
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So what I can gather... there is not such an untapped power source.
Like when AO created the Realm-space sphere out of Philongiston! Guess I have to settle with the weave and "normal" magic, since I WONT use epic spells!
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1600 Posts |
Posted - 13 Feb 2012 : 10:06:32
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| I think so, Nicolai. Unless the magic wielded by the Imaskari was of a different nature. They had spells that blocked the entrance of deities into the Realms crystal sphere, after all. Well, maybe you should take this question to Ed's scroll in the Chamber of Sages. |
"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."
The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood) |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2384 Posts |
Posted - 13 Feb 2012 : 10:53:33
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With the ban of Mystra it's either "would go against her portfolio to block" or powered by anything but Weave (at this point attendant "little" inconveniences won't be a bigger problem).
quote:
Originally posted by Barastir
Unless the magic wielded by the Imaskari was of a different nature. They had spells that blocked the entrance of deities into the Realms crystal sphere, after all.
For that matter, the nutty deformed noble Adon ran into... how him... made a divine blocker of his own during Time of Troubles. And even Karsus's Avatar was, obviously, powered by the Weave. |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1600 Posts |
Posted - 13 Feb 2012 : 12:22:51
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That's why I've put that "unless" there. Anyway, it doesn't hurt to ask THO and Ed.  |
"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."
The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood) |
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Shemmy
Senior Scribe
USA
492 Posts |
Posted - 13 Feb 2012 : 17:07:47
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There's always The Last Word (see 'Dead Gods'), which was hinted at being only one part of a system of magic unto itself in the ruins of Arborea's 3rd layer of Pelion/Mithardir.
It killed gods, instantly. It also obliterated anything attempting to learn it that wasn't also at the power level of a deity (it was slowly consuming Tenebrous who sought it out in his quest to find his wand in order to restore himself to his original status as Orcus - which could have also staved off the effect of the Word). |
Shemeska the Marauder, King of the Crosstrade; voted #1 best Arcanaloth in Sigil two hundred years running by the people who know what's best for them; chant broker; prospective Sigil council member next election; and official travel agent for Chamada Holiday specials LLC.
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1600 Posts |
Posted - 13 Feb 2012 : 18:30:51
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That's true, and even if it was published in the Planescape setting, it may be considered canon, for its story is directly linked to the Tenebrous/Orcus affair. 
And now I'm curious: what's Ed's position about this whole situation? This interaction with the Planescape setting, I say. Was he aware of it when it happened, and it happened on his accord? Was he involved in the development of Planescape products?
EDIT: Better explaination of the question |
"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."
The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood) |
Edited by - Barastir on 13 Feb 2012 18:43:19 |
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Shemmy
Senior Scribe
USA
492 Posts |
Posted - 13 Feb 2012 : 19:18:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Barastir
That's true, and even if it was published in the Planescape setting, it may be considered canon, for its story is directly linked to the Tenebrous/Orcus affair.
And now I'm curious: what's Ed's position about this whole situation? This interaction with the Planescape setting, I say. Was he aware of it when it happened, and it happened on his accord? Was he involved in the development of Planescape products?
EDIT: Better explaination of the question
I dunno. Planescape wasn't so much of a distinct campaign setting as it was a meta-setting based on the presumed shared cosmology of the various AD&D settings. Since 1e, FR had been part of the Great Wheel, and its fingerprints show up referenced in PS (and going the other way I believe the events of 'Squaring the Circle' from Hellbound: The Blood War are referenced in a 2e FR product). It was only in 3e that they stepped back and retconned FR into having a different cosmology (though it was very often just semantics).
That and Ed had some important impact on the 1e development of the Wheel with his work in Dragon for instance (such as the 9 Hells articles). I understand at one point he was working on a Limbo supplement, but it appears to have never gone into print and later material in 2e as it developed may have been rather different from his ideas. Personally I'd love to see what he had in mind, even if it never made it into the planar canon. |
Shemeska the Marauder, King of the Crosstrade; voted #1 best Arcanaloth in Sigil two hundred years running by the people who know what's best for them; chant broker; prospective Sigil council member next election; and official travel agent for Chamada Holiday specials LLC.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 13 Feb 2012 : 19:47:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Shemmy
quote:
Originally posted by Barastir
That's true, and even if it was published in the Planescape setting, it may be considered canon, for its story is directly linked to the Tenebrous/Orcus affair.
And now I'm curious: what's Ed's position about this whole situation? This interaction with the Planescape setting, I say. Was he aware of it when it happened, and it happened on his accord? Was he involved in the development of Planescape products?
EDIT: Better explaination of the question
I dunno. Planescape wasn't so much of a distinct campaign setting as it was a meta-setting based on the presumed shared cosmology of the various AD&D settings. Since 1e, FR had been part of the Great Wheel, and its fingerprints show up referenced in PS (and going the other way I believe the events of 'Squaring the Circle' from Hellbound: The Blood War are referenced in a 2e FR product). It was only in 3e that they stepped back and retconned FR into having a different cosmology (though it was very often just semantics).
That and Ed had some important impact on the 1e development of the Wheel with his work in Dragon for instance (such as the 9 Hells articles). I understand at one point he was working on a Limbo supplement, but it appears to have never gone into print and later material in 2e as it developed may have been rather different from his ideas. Personally I'd love to see what he had in mind, even if it never made it into the planar canon.
So that supplement is in Limbo?  |
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 13 Feb 2012 : 22:00:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Shemmy
I understand at one point he was working on a Limbo supplement, but it appears to have never gone into print and later material in 2e as it developed may have been rather different from his ideas. Personally I'd love to see what he had in mind, even if it never made it into the planar canon.
So that supplement is in Limbo?
 And this, folks, is why the plane of absolute chaos will never be described in its totality... |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
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More powerful magic
