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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer

USA
1740 Posts

Posted - 26 Feb 2020 :  22:07:05  Show Profile  Visit ericlboyd's Homepage Send ericlboyd a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
Here are some thoughts on the Ruathen Pantheon. There may be some lore problems with this take. Feel free to let me know what you think.

Ruathen Pantheon
The Ruathen pantheon predates the arrival of the Ruathen people on the isle of Ruathym circa —3100 DR. The early Ruathen seafarers sailed from lands far to the west across the Trackless Sea to Faerūn. After settling on Ruathym, they eventually went on to settle most of the islands of the northern Trackless Sea and the Swordsea Coast. In time, they became known as the Northuir (Northmen).
Traditional Ruathen culture views the world as an endless contest between human heroes and the titanic forces of the natural world. In the Ruathen mythos, natural forces like beasts, seas, storms, and winter are embodied by the Gods of Fury: Talos the Stormlord, Auril the Frostmaiden, Malar the Beastlord, and Umberlee the Bitch Queen. Only the greatest of heroes could hope to prevail against the Gods of Fury, embodiments of four deific roles: the Hunter, the Sailor, the Wanderer, and the Warrior.
In the Ruathen mythos, from time to time mortal heroes ascend to the rank of demipower to embody those deific archtetypes. So there has been more than one Hunter, more than one Sailor, more than one Warrior, and more than one Wanderer, but never more than one of each such demipower at any given point in time.
In recent centuries, the portfolio of the Hunter has been held by Gwaeron Windstrom the Tracker, who stalked and slew and avatar of Malar, followed by several manifestations of the Beastlord in short succession. Before that time, legends speak of a Northuir huntress named Skadi the Stalker, who sailed the seas in the wake of Malar the Beastlord, who swam up from the deaths in the guise of the Seawolf to bedevil Northuir seafarers.
In recent centuries, the portfolio of the Sailor has been held by Valkur the Mighty, a Northuir sea captain from Mintarn who challenged Umberlee and won against all odds. Before that time, legends speak of a Northuir seawolf known as Ruathane the Reaver who plundered ships from the Sea of Moving Ice to the isle of Nimbral before sinking in a fierce winter storm wrapped in the tentacles of Umberlee’s bulk while being torn apart by sharks.
The portfolio of the Warrior was most recently seized by Uthgar the Battlefather, formerly a Ruathen thane named Uther Gardolffson, in the Year of the Icy Axe (123 DR). Uthgar defeated a dozen different spirit totems, venerated by various Beorunni and Runlathan tribes, to take his place at the head of the Uthgardt tribes, before being absorbed into the Faerūnian pantheon as a servant of Tempus (also rendered Tempos), Lord of War. Long before the rise of Uthgar, legends speak of a shape-shifting berserker known as Magnur the Hamfariggen. This bear-like warrior is thought to have roamed the isle of Ruathym in ursine form, endlessly battling Malar the Beastlord, before eventually becoming trapped in beast form.
The portfolio of the Wanderer has been held by Shaundakul (a Ruathen of Ruathym, neé Shaun, son of Akul) since the Rider of the Winds stumbled through a portal centuries ago and found himself on the far side of Faerūn. Ever since, Shaundakul has been slowly making his way home across the North, battling the Stormlord and other strange gods who bar his way. Over time, he has become the patron of the Ruathen diaspora, from the Rus of Rasheman to the Arkaiuns of Dambrath to the invaders of the Utter East. Long before the rise of Shaundakul, legends speak of a far-wandering sailor named Ulutiu who sailed the Trackless Sea. He is said to have frozen the northern waters with his enchanted necklace before falling asleep beneath what is now the Great Glacier. Some whisper the Ulutiu was a mortal who held the role of the Wanderer ere the Ruathens arrived on Ruathym.
In the centuries since the first founding of Illusk (circa --3000 DR), the Illuskans, as the descendants of the Ruathen explorers and Netherese refugees have come to be known, have intermingled, traded with, and raided many other human ethnic groups. In the course of those interactions, Ruathen gods like Talos have absorbed rival storm deities, such as Kozah (Netherese) and Bhaelros (Calishite). Likewise, Illuskans have adopted worship of other gods—starting with Tempos, Lord of Battles. As a result, the Ruathen pantheon is now considered part of the larger Faerūnian pantheon, and its deities are worshiped far and wide across the Realms.

--
http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/

Edited by - ericlboyd on 27 Feb 2020 10:35:08

George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5835 Posts

Posted - 26 Feb 2020 :  22:23:37  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote


I've got some lore to share with you. Will e-mail tonight.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus

Edited by - George Krashos on 26 Feb 2020 22:24:27
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer

USA
1740 Posts

Posted - 26 Feb 2020 :  22:25:36  Show Profile  Visit ericlboyd's Homepage Send ericlboyd a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos



I've got some lore to share with you. Will e-mail tonight.

-- George Krashos



The intent of this post was to speed you along Mr. George. :-)

--
http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/
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Delnyn
Learned Scribe

USA
311 Posts

Posted - 27 Feb 2020 :  01:54:50  Show Profile Send Delnyn a Private Message  Reply with Quote
May I correctly presume 3100 DR was meant to be -3100 DR?
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer

USA
1740 Posts

Posted - 27 Feb 2020 :  02:23:22  Show Profile  Visit ericlboyd's Homepage Send ericlboyd a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Delnyn

May I correctly presume 3100 DR was meant to be -3100 DR?



Yeah. Cut and paste dropped the character.

--
http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
5017 Posts

Posted - 27 Feb 2020 :  10:05:13  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm loving the hero mythos so far.

My thought is that something (i think its a someone) compelled the dwarves to migrate to Ruathym. It did so again to compel the northmen towards Ruathym for some unknown reason (perhaps they and the dwarves found an artefact linked to it and it influenced them through it).

Given that Umberlee has strong worship in Calimshan (and i think its a historical worship) and that the northmen never made it as far south as Calimshan, then perhaps northmen worship of Umberlee could be a different variant (i have them as separate local religions that later amalgamate over time as the peoples of Faerun mix and thus form the Faerunian pantheon, others might call it an aspect of Umberlee).

So perhaps the northmen worship some nasty sea creature (with their own name for it that later gets renamed to Umberlee as the Faerunian pantheon forms, or perhaps its the otherway around). That sea creature is imprisoned in, around, or under Ruathym. I'm guessing it escapes its prison at roughly the same time as the Ruathym diaspora.




My own personal thought is that this creature is some kind of batrachi horror, like the slaadi lords but obviously one that did not go to limbo. It caused the madness in the dwarves (perhaps they tried to resist it and went nuts), perhaps it enslaved the northmen for a time and they freed it, then it left heading into the Trackless Sea.

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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer

USA
1740 Posts

Posted - 27 Feb 2020 :  10:40:32  Show Profile  Visit ericlboyd's Homepage Send ericlboyd a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison

I'm loving the hero mythos so far.

My thought is that something (i think its a someone) compelled the dwarves to migrate to Ruathym. It did so again to compel the northmen towards Ruathym for some unknown reason (perhaps they and the dwarves found an artefact linked to it and it influenced them through it).



I have a more conventional reason for the dwraven arrival (which predates the Ruathen people): the dwarves were counter-attacking frost giant reavers.

quote:


Given that Umberlee has strong worship in Calimshan (and i think its a historical worship) and that the northmen never made it as far south as Calimshan, then perhaps northmen worship of Umberlee could be a different variant (i have them as separate local religions that later amalgamate over time as the peoples of Faerun mix and thus form the Faerunian pantheon, others might call it an aspect of Umberlee).



Not discounting your ideas, which are fine, but I don't think there's canonical evidence that worship fo Umberlee is ancient. Oldest reference I could find in EotSS was -133 DR. Reading between the lines, I might say her faith creeps in before that date, but that's when it really explodes. And then does so again in 37 DR after it sags. See EotSS, pages 21, 29.

I think Ishtia would have been the "traditional" sea goddess of Calimshan until Umberlee displaced her.


quote:

So perhaps the northmen worship some nasty sea creature (with their own name for it that later gets renamed to Umberlee as the Faerunian pantheon forms, or perhaps its the otherway around). That sea creature is imprisoned in, around, or under Ruathym. I'm guessing it escapes its prison at roughly the same time as the Ruathym diaspora.



It's interesting you should come up with the idea of a an elder sea creature imprisoned under Ruathym ... I had a similar thought but went a slightly different way.

quote:


My own personal thought is that this creature is some kind of batrachi horror, like the slaadi lords but obviously one that did not go to limbo. It caused the madness in the dwarves (perhaps they tried to resist it and went nuts), perhaps it enslaved the northmen for a time and they freed it, then it left heading into the Trackless Sea.



Interesting ideas ... again quite similar to the way I was going.

--Eric

--
http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/

Edited by - ericlboyd on 27 Feb 2020 10:46:05
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
5017 Posts

Posted - 27 Feb 2020 :  11:20:13  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I will await your version with bated breath, especially to see what monster you use (a kraken perhaps).

It just seemed too much coincidence that two entirely separate groups of people were drawn on a long migration to the same spot (and one of them went mad for no apparent reason).

The dwarves migrated a long way overland but did leave some people and outposts behind. The northmen appear to have moved here in several migrations from different points and left very little behind (the south to north migration left no groups behind that I know of).

It all seemed too much like fell sorcery to me, but I'm sure you have thought on all that already, and you will have more facts to draw upon more than I do.

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Baltas
Senior Scribe

Poland
676 Posts

Posted - 27 Feb 2020 :  15:12:45  Show Profile Send Baltas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Brilliant stuff - now we know for sure Talos is (or rather started out as) a Ruathen god (although it was strongly implied for years).

I also wonder if Magnur the Hamfariggen became maybe Magnar the Bear - there is though a gigantic geographic distance between the Yuirwood and Ruathym, Sword Coat North, or even the Sword Coast - although his cult could arrive in Yuir with the Rus.
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer

USA
1740 Posts

Posted - 27 Feb 2020 :  15:21:40  Show Profile  Visit ericlboyd's Homepage Send ericlboyd a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Baltas

Brilliant stuff - now we know for sure Talos is (or rather started out as) a Ruathen god (although it was strongly implied for years).

I also wonder if Magnur the Hamfariggen became maybe Magnar the Bear - there is though a gigantic geographic distance between the Yuirwood and Ruathym, Sword Coat North, or even the Sword Coast - although his cult could arrive in Yuir with the Rus.



You'll note in Spellbound, they use two spellings Magnar and Magnur. The latter appears to be a typo, but ...

--
http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore

USA
1852 Posts

Posted - 29 Mar 2020 :  21:22:49  Show Profile  Visit xaeyruudh's Homepage Send xaeyruudh a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd


The intent of this post was to speed you along Mr. George. :-)



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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore

USA
1852 Posts

Posted - 29 Mar 2020 :  22:00:00  Show Profile  Visit xaeyruudh's Homepage Send xaeyruudh a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd

Here are some thoughts on the Ruathen Pantheon.


So in your first list, Talos is the Warrior, Auril is the Wanderer, Malar is the Hunter, and Umberlee is the Sailor?

You also mention Gwaeron, Shaundakul, Uthgar, and Valkur. Am I understanding right that in this theory, none of these four would be venerated as part of a pantheon at the same time as the corresponding member of the first list since they're taking each other's place?

Apologies if I missed some of the points. Sounds interesting, lots of potential for introducing other characters (and thus RP nuances) into those successions of deities.
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore

USA
1852 Posts

Posted - 29 Mar 2020 :  22:05:04  Show Profile  Visit xaeyruudh's Homepage Send xaeyruudh a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It also seems that since some of the "barbarians" moved east as Netheril collapsed and presumably as the ice covered their lands, Shaundakul's appearance in the Moonsea North would support the combined Ruathen/Netherese peoples' survival and spread to the south and east, so that this Ruathen pantheon can be alive and well in the little-known Tortured Land and the Ride, and even into Vaasa.


That was a long sentence.
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer

USA
1740 Posts

Posted - 30 Mar 2020 :  03:41:31  Show Profile  Visit ericlboyd's Homepage Send ericlboyd a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by xaeyruudh

quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd

Here are some thoughts on the Ruathen Pantheon.


So in your first list, Talos is the Warrior, Auril is the Wanderer, Malar is the Hunter, and Umberlee is the Sailor?

You also mention Gwaeron, Shaundakul, Uthgar, and Valkur. Am I understanding right that in this theory, none of these four would be venerated as part of a pantheon at the same time as the corresponding member of the first list since they're taking each other's place?

Apologies if I missed some of the points. Sounds interesting, lots of potential for introducing other characters (and thus RP nuances) into those successions of deities.



No, the four Gods of Fury are the bad guys. They are unchanging and more powerful than the hero gods.

The good guys are the four hero-gods. The current incarnations of the hero gods are Gwaeron (Hunter), Shaundakul (Wanderer), Uthgar (Warrior), and Valkur (Sailor).

The hero gods die occasionally, because they are weaker than the Gods of Fury.

Previous incarnations of the hero gods include: Skadi the Stalker (Hunter), Ruathane the Reaver (sailor), Magnur the Hamfariggen (warrior), and Ulutiu (Wanderer).

There were other incarnations of the hero gods as well.

Basically every time a hero god dies (at the hands of the Gods of Fury), a new mortal rises to take his or her place.

--Eric


--
http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore

USA
1852 Posts

Posted - 30 Mar 2020 :  04:18:53  Show Profile  Visit xaeyruudh's Homepage Send xaeyruudh a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd

No, the four Gods of Fury are the bad guys. They are unchanging and more powerful than the hero gods.


OHHhh. Okay. Are/were there other full-fledged powers (or hero gods) in the Ruathen pantheon? Makes a lot of sense that the evils are more powerful; it fits with the feeling of a blunt, no-nonsense culture.

And are we incorporating or reinterpreting Ulutiu's giant-link in Giantcraft?
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer

USA
1740 Posts

Posted - 30 Mar 2020 :  11:44:11  Show Profile  Visit ericlboyd's Homepage Send ericlboyd a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by xaeyruudh

quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd

No, the four Gods of Fury are the bad guys. They are unchanging and more powerful than the hero gods.


OHHhh. Okay. Are/were there other full-fledged powers (or hero gods) in the Ruathen pantheon? Makes a lot of sense that the evils are more powerful; it fits with the feeling of a blunt, no-nonsense culture.

And are we incorporating or reinterpreting Ulutiu's giant-link in Giantcraft?




I'm building off a reference that says "Ulutiu was a minor sea god of the Savage Frontier" in Giantcraft, page 9, and The Grand History of the Realms, page 8.

My thought is that Ulutiu didn't die so much as move out of the Ruathen pantheon and into the Giant pantheon. (Not wholly unexpected for "The Wanderer.")

My plan was those are the four hero archetypes that continually reinvent as hero-gods. (I'm thinking of the hero gods from back in the day in Dragon magazine for Greyhawk or Hercules from Greek myth.)

I'm open to a fifth hero god type, but those were the ones I found that made sense. (In particular, I didn't find a current female god who works, even though I looked.)

--Eric

--
http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/

Edited by - ericlboyd on 30 Mar 2020 14:47:49
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5835 Posts

Posted - 30 Mar 2020 :  13:39:18  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
How about Shiallia as "the Guardian"? She is a nurturer who protects the weak, vulnerable and innocent and repairs the damage wrought by the Gods of Fury and their minions.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer

USA
1740 Posts

Posted - 30 Mar 2020 :  14:45:35  Show Profile  Visit ericlboyd's Homepage Send ericlboyd a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

How about Shiallia as "the Guardian"? She is a nurturer who protects the weak, vulnerable and innocent and repairs the damage wrought by the Gods of Fury and their minions.

-- George Krashos



Not a bad idea from a Realms neophyte.

The only issue might be the whole "Daughter of Tapann" reference.

It could be that a korred grabbed the "slot" that had before then been held by humans.

--Eric

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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore

USA
1852 Posts

Posted - 30 Mar 2020 :  15:36:43  Show Profile  Visit xaeyruudh's Homepage Send xaeyruudh a Private Message  Reply with Quote
That all sounds great.

I like the korred jumping into the fray too, but even if there's a reason to keep the hero gods human she could have been a human child raised by korred (perhaps a village aided by a prior Healer hero) who was dubbed "daughter of Tapann" by humans she later encountered as she went about doing hero things.
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TomCosta
Forgotten Realms Designer

USA
696 Posts

Posted - 30 Mar 2020 :  16:37:11  Show Profile Send TomCosta a Private Message  Reply with Quote
4E Dragon/Dungeon article suggested that Auril is actually the fey Queen of Air and Darkness. It's also interesting, and maybe pointless, the speculate how the Second Sundering might have affected gods that were absorbed by others such as Bhaelros and Kozah or if those were always just aliases accounting for different languages.
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
8876 Posts

Posted - 30 Mar 2020 :  17:01:54  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
While I have gone a different path for the Metahel/"northmen" of western anchorome, this idea is intriguing. What comes to me is that there should be some other archetypes as well. For instance, the trusty mount of these heroes that shows up in times of need. That would be if we're mirroring somewhat Norse/Finnish lore. I would say Lurue, but a unicorn doesn't fit the bill. She could if in other forms though. Uthgar can also work for some of it.

However, since people mentioned Ulutiu, maybe he is seen as both his "godly" form but also his "messenger" form. So, for instance, he might send his "messenger" to assist the hero in the myths. In some cases, this might be by sending the reindeer mother Pindalpau-pau to bring them places, maybe heal them by licking wounds, etc... He might send the Great White Bear to aid the hunter, warrior, or wanderer against an enemy. He might send Clever Oomio the Gray Seal to assist the sailor against some treachery of Umberlee or Auril. He might send Grandfather Walrus to help fight off sea creatures sent by Umberlee (picture a giant walrus actually fighting a killer whale with the hero on its back). In this way, Ulutiu is seen as both the "being" and his totem beassts who are his servants he sends to help people. He would play opposition to all the gods of Fury, but only by helping the hero.

Just as a thought, you might consider having the "warrior" not be Uthgar. He could act in similar ways as Ulutiu, sending the sky pony to aid someone, sending the gray wolf, the red pony, the Elk (a lover possibly Pindalpau-pau and often times a mount), or the Griffon, etc... He might very much oppose Malar and might have taken up his role after another nature deity was betrayed by a trickster deity and died. So, who then might be the current Warrior god? Maybe the red warrior, Sifya, who is often seen getting the aid of the red pony, the sky pony, or the elk. She's essentially the red knight, but seen as a separate entity. She's a servant to Tempos and a god for shieldmaidens. In doing this, Uthgar can be seen as more of a god of animals and even plants (perhaps the "Tree Ghost" has some ties to the Yggdrasil's Child on Ruathym), and thus a god for druids.

Note, in the above I'm obviously conflating Sif and the red knight. It might be interesting as well to make a note that her hair is red instead of golden.

Personally, I would also include Tyr, Helm, and Valigan Thirdborn (possibly known as Valigan the Runtborn Giant) in the pantheon, with Valigan having had to be "imprisoned away" for some wrongdoing long ago. I'd also include Kezef the Chaos Houd, Dendar the Night Serpent, and possibly even some giant deities in the pantheon. But that's because I'd like to mirror the norse pantheon and because there are references that the Rus referred to Dendar as Nidhogg. Dendar might even hold Valigan in his realm, feeding on his dreams and dripping his nightmare poison into his mind.

Just to throw out another odd twist... who might Valigan have betrayed? Perhaps there was a sun god who was killed and rebirthed.

I know all of this won't work for everyone, but just throwing things against the wall and seeing if anything clicks.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas

Edited by - sleyvas on 30 Mar 2020 17:26:42
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer

USA
1740 Posts

Posted - 30 Mar 2020 :  18:04:16  Show Profile  Visit ericlboyd's Homepage Send ericlboyd a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So, there's nothing wrong with what you're suggesting, but I was deliberately trying to avoid recreating the Norse mythos or having good-aligned true gods in the pantheon.

My thought was non-evil Heroes vs. Evil-Brutal-Nature-Gods, with no support from good or neutral-aligned powerful deities.

And all of the heroes are mortals well known in history who ascended at a specific point in time, sort of a "fourth book in the trilogy" type story.

--Eric

--
http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/

Edited by - ericlboyd on 30 Mar 2020 18:05:16
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
8876 Posts

Posted - 30 Mar 2020 :  19:12:25  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd

So, there's nothing wrong with what you're suggesting, but I was deliberately trying to avoid recreating the Norse mythos or having good-aligned true gods in the pantheon.

My thought was non-evil Heroes vs. Evil-Brutal-Nature-Gods, with no support from good or neutral-aligned powerful deities.

And all of the heroes are mortals well known in history who ascended at a specific point in time, sort of a "fourth book in the trilogy" type story.

--Eric



Another idea that might appeal as well would be to do like you said and put some preheistory in which a lot of the "old gods" died in a conflict with the gods of fury... but they weren't hero gods, but actual true gods. For instance, perhaps Talos kills the god the that corresponds to the weather god of the past and tie it to around the time that the Netherese Pantheon changes.

For instance, Kozah = Thozah = Thor and is killed by Talos and/or Dendar
Amaunator = Amatyr = Tyr and is killed by Kezef the Chaos Hound
Jannath = Eldunath = Idun and is killed by Malar or Moander and when she dies the many spirit animals go wild (opening up for Uthgar to retame them)
Helm = Hemdahl = Heimdall and is disgraced for not having foreseen the coming assault.
Tempos being one of their gods, and maybe he survives and tries to bring on new gods.

Thus, you somewhat mirror the Norse mythos, since the Rus apparently did have some ties to it (mentions of Yggdrasil, mentions of Nidhogg, etc..) with it being a somewhat post-ragnarok scenario.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer

USA
1740 Posts

Posted - 30 Mar 2020 :  20:24:40  Show Profile  Visit ericlboyd's Homepage Send ericlboyd a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd

So, there's nothing wrong with what you're suggesting, but I was deliberately trying to avoid recreating the Norse mythos or having good-aligned true gods in the pantheon.

My thought was non-evil Heroes vs. Evil-Brutal-Nature-Gods, with no support from good or neutral-aligned powerful deities.

And all of the heroes are mortals well known in history who ascended at a specific point in time, sort of a "fourth book in the trilogy" type story.

--Eric



Another idea that might appeal as well would be to do like you said and put some preheistory in which a lot of the "old gods" died in a conflict with the gods of fury... but they weren't hero gods, but actual true gods. For instance, perhaps Talos kills the god the that corresponds to the weather god of the past and tie it to around the time that the Netherese Pantheon changes.

For instance, Kozah = Thozah = Thor and is killed by Talos and/or Dendar
Amaunator = Amatyr = Tyr and is killed by Kezef the Chaos Hound
Jannath = Eldunath = Idun and is killed by Malar or Moander and when she dies the many spirit animals go wild (opening up for Uthgar to retame them)
Helm = Hemdahl = Heimdall and is disgraced for not having foreseen the coming assault.
Tempos being one of their gods, and maybe he survives and tries to bring on new gods.

Thus, you somewhat mirror the Norse mythos, since the Rus apparently did have some ties to it (mentions of Yggdrasil, mentions of Nidhogg, etc..) with it being a somewhat post-ragnarok scenario.



The problem for me is that Kozah is an exact copy of Talos in the Netheril boxed set (down to the CE alignment). I know why (designer reasons), but given that's what's printed ...

I was basically setting it up so that one of the early battles to merge the Ruathen and Netherese pantheons into the Faerunian pantheon unfolds as follows* below in my current history of the Church of Talos in the North.

* NOTE: This post is not Krashos-approved.

===

History: The Church of Talos first rose to prominence in the Savage North with the founding of Illusk circa -3000 DR. The Ruathen people had long feared the wrath of the Gods of Fury, and, when they first settled the Swordsea Coast, the inland reaches of the Savage North were seen as their unchallenged domain.
In -2301 DR, strong rumblings from the depths of Mount Hotenow attracted Talassan cultists from Illusk to the depths of the Neverwinter Woods, where they clashed with Netherese followers of Kozah, who had traveled north from Quesseer (Modern: Old Owl Well). Viewing each other as heretics, both groups called upon the favor of their respective god. The resultant Clash of Firestorms marked the first battle between the avatars of Talos and Kozah, unfolding on the summit of Mount Hotenow. Some scholars still believe that the long-slumbering volcano might well have erupted, if not for the High Mages of Iliyanbruen, who quickly wiped out both groups of storm-worshiprs and then quieted the rumblings of the volcano.
The Church of Talos returned to the Savage North with the founding of Tavaray in the Year of the Phandar (-50 DR) by Northuir (Northmen) settlers from Ruathym. Word soon spread in Tavaray of the Church of Kozah, a rival storm god, venerated and appeased in the great northern wilderness by Netherese refugees in Ascalhorn and Illusk. Word of such heresy prompted wave upon wave of Talassan cultists to head north from Tavaray into the Savage Frontier to battle these Netherese heretics.
In the three centuries that followed, followers of Talos and followers of Kozah fought battle after battle in the most dangerous reaches of the Savage North. The Church of Talos marks the Year of the Storm Crown (250 DR) as founding of the modern church, after which both Bhaelros (worshiped in far-off Calimshan) and Kozah were seen merely as regional aspects of Talos the Destroyer. Thereafter, the Talassan church was united across Faerūn in its love of destruction and hatred of civilization. The full fury of Talos’s church was then turned upon the settled regions of the Savage North and elsewhere across the Realms.
In the centuries that followed, the Church of Talos waxed and waned in power in the Savage North, as the ranks of the faithful unleashed wave upon wave of destruction, often dying amidst the chaos they had unleashed. Although the Storm Lord’s followers were never large in number, most Illuskans (descended from the union of Netherese refugees and Northuir (Northmen) reavers), left offerings at scenes of natural destruction to appease the Raging One, in hopes they might be spared of his fury.
In the Year of Twelve Teeth (888 DR), the Church of Talos all but collapsed, when dozens of high-ranking Talassans perished in the Struggle of Storms, a great battle in far-off Kormul (on the southern edge of the Shaar, east of the Shining Sea) that tore apart the ranks of the faithful and killed the highest-ranking priests of the faith drawn from all across Faerūn. It took three centuries—until the Year of the Waking Wrath (1214 DR)—for the church of the Storm Lord reclaim its power across the Realms, for every time a powerful priest or priestess of Talos rose up to command the faithful, a dozen rivals would converge to tear him or her down.
In the Savage North, the Church of Talos rose again to prominence in the Year of the Roaring Tempest (1016 DR), during the early years of the wizard-war between the Covenant and the Red Wizards of Thay. In the month of Tarsakh, there appeared a swirling storm of raging magic, a tempest of fire and ice, acid and stone. The Wildfire Tempest raged the length of the Spine of the World before becoming trapped by the prevailing winds between the Ice Mountains and the Ice Spires. Some claimed the Wildfire Tempest was the affer-effect of a massive spell battle between the Zulkir of Evocation and the four founders of the Covenant. Others claimed no such battle ever occurred, and instead this was the manifestation of a battle for dominance between the Storm Lord and a demipower of the Underdark, known as Malyk, god of wild magic.
Whatever the providence of the Wildfire Tempest, it attracted all manner of wizards, primarily those who studied elemental magics. Normally divided into four opposing factions, these elementalists united in their faith, forming a Talassan religious order known as the Lords of the Tempest. They came to be known for their exotic combinations of elemental magic. The Wildfire Tempest persisted until the Year of the Tempest (1027 DR), when it exploded in a burst of elemental energy on the eve of Greengrass that could be seen from hundreds of miles away. Since that time, the Lords of the Tempest have continued their secretive investigations, seeking to summon another Wildfire Tempest to the Spine of the World, this time large enough to consume the very Weave, and thus allow Talos to claim the portfolio of magic.
In the centuries since the appearance of the Wildfire Tempest, the church of Talos has waxed and waned in strength in the Savage North. Of late, the Church of Talos is once again in an expansionist mode, seeking to bring the Uthgardt tribes into worship of the four Gods of Fury, thus destroying Uthgar and his spirit totems and creating an army of barbarian warriors to unleash destruction against the cities of the Lords’ Alliance.

--
http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/

Edited by - ericlboyd on 30 Mar 2020 20:26:19
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
5017 Posts

Posted - 30 Mar 2020 :  20:37:53  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I very much approve of the Church of Talos wiping out the Church of Kozah.

I'm also enjoying the hero worship idea of the northmen, its very fitting. I'm happy to not have it as proof of an origin of the gods, as nomadic seafarers, its entirely possible they picked up gods from people they raided (christianity to the vikings as proof of concept). When you release the books i will have to steal your northmen ideas for my Moonshaes rework (if you don't mind), and perhaps it will give me inspiration to start on it again.


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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5835 Posts

Posted - 30 Mar 2020 :  22:04:27  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd

quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

How about Shiallia as "the Guardian"? She is a nurturer who protects the weak, vulnerable and innocent and repairs the damage wrought by the Gods of Fury and their minions.

-- George Krashos



Not a bad idea from a Realms neophyte.

...

--Eric



I'm thrilled that you even thought it was an okay-ish idea, Mr Boyd. Sir.

And I have to say, thanks for all your brilliant work on the Realms. I'm a huge fan and wish you were still writing for WotC.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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