Candlekeep Forum
Candlekeep Forum
Home | Profile | Register | Active Topics | Active Polls | Members | Private Messages | Search | FAQ
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

 All Forums
 Forgotten Realms Journals
 General Forgotten Realms Chat
 Ruathen Pantheon
 New Topic  New Poll New Poll
 Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Previous Page
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic
Page: of 2

sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
9895 Posts

Posted - 30 Mar 2020 :  22:15:52  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd

quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd

So, there's nothing wrong with what you're suggesting, but I was deliberately trying to avoid recreating the Norse mythos or having good-aligned true gods in the pantheon.

My thought was non-evil Heroes vs. Evil-Brutal-Nature-Gods, with no support from good or neutral-aligned powerful deities.

And all of the heroes are mortals well known in history who ascended at a specific point in time, sort of a "fourth book in the trilogy" type story.

--Eric



Another idea that might appeal as well would be to do like you said and put some preheistory in which a lot of the "old gods" died in a conflict with the gods of fury... but they weren't hero gods, but actual true gods. For instance, perhaps Talos kills the god the that corresponds to the weather god of the past and tie it to around the time that the Netherese Pantheon changes.

For instance, Kozah = Thozah = Thor and is killed by Talos and/or Dendar
Amaunator = Amatyr = Tyr and is killed by Kezef the Chaos Hound
Jannath = Eldunath = Idun and is killed by Malar or Moander and when she dies the many spirit animals go wild (opening up for Uthgar to retame them)
Helm = Hemdahl = Heimdall and is disgraced for not having foreseen the coming assault.
Tempos being one of their gods, and maybe he survives and tries to bring on new gods.

Thus, you somewhat mirror the Norse mythos, since the Rus apparently did have some ties to it (mentions of Yggdrasil, mentions of Nidhogg, etc..) with it being a somewhat post-ragnarok scenario.



The problem for me is that Kozah is an exact copy of Talos in the Netheril boxed set (down to the CE alignment). I know why (designer reasons), but given that's what's printed ...

I was basically setting it up so that one of the early battles to merge the Ruathen and Netherese pantheons into the Faerunian pantheon unfolds as follows* below in my current history of the Church of Talos in the North.

* NOTE: This post is not Krashos-approved.

===

History: The Church of Talos first rose to prominence in the Savage North with the founding of Illusk circa -3000 DR. The Ruathen people had long feared the wrath of the Gods of Fury, and, when they first settled the Swordsea Coast, the inland reaches of the Savage North were seen as their unchallenged domain.
In -2301 DR, strong rumblings from the depths of Mount Hotenow attracted Talassan cultists from Illusk to the depths of the Neverwinter Woods, where they clashed with Netherese followers of Kozah, who had traveled north from Quesseer (Modern: Old Owl Well). Viewing each other as heretics, both groups called upon the favor of their respective god. The resultant Clash of Firestorms marked the first battle between the avatars of Talos and Kozah, unfolding on the summit of Mount Hotenow. Some scholars still believe that the long-slumbering volcano might well have erupted, if not for the High Mages of Iliyanbruen, who quickly wiped out both groups of storm-worshiprs and then quieted the rumblings of the volcano.
The Church of Talos returned to the Savage North with the founding of Tavaray in the Year of the Phandar (-50 DR) by Northuir (Northmen) settlers from Ruathym. Word soon spread in Tavaray of the Church of Kozah, a rival storm god, venerated and appeased in the great northern wilderness by Netherese refugees in Ascalhorn and Illusk. Word of such heresy prompted wave upon wave of Talassan cultists to head north from Tavaray into the Savage Frontier to battle these Netherese heretics.
In the three centuries that followed, followers of Talos and followers of Kozah fought battle after battle in the most dangerous reaches of the Savage North. The Church of Talos marks the Year of the Storm Crown (250 DR) as founding of the modern church, after which both Bhaelros (worshiped in far-off Calimshan) and Kozah were seen merely as regional aspects of Talos the Destroyer. Thereafter, the Talassan church was united across Faerūn in its love of destruction and hatred of civilization. The full fury of Talos’s church was then turned upon the settled regions of the Savage North and elsewhere across the Realms.
In the centuries that followed, the Church of Talos waxed and waned in power in the Savage North, as the ranks of the faithful unleashed wave upon wave of destruction, often dying amidst the chaos they had unleashed. Although the Storm Lord’s followers were never large in number, most Illuskans (descended from the union of Netherese refugees and Northuir (Northmen) reavers), left offerings at scenes of natural destruction to appease the Raging One, in hopes they might be spared of his fury.
In the Year of Twelve Teeth (888 DR), the Church of Talos all but collapsed, when dozens of high-ranking Talassans perished in the Struggle of Storms, a great battle in far-off Kormul (on the southern edge of the Shaar, east of the Shining Sea) that tore apart the ranks of the faithful and killed the highest-ranking priests of the faith drawn from all across Faerūn. It took three centuries—until the Year of the Waking Wrath (1214 DR)—for the church of the Storm Lord reclaim its power across the Realms, for every time a powerful priest or priestess of Talos rose up to command the faithful, a dozen rivals would converge to tear him or her down.
In the Savage North, the Church of Talos rose again to prominence in the Year of the Roaring Tempest (1016 DR), during the early years of the wizard-war between the Covenant and the Red Wizards of Thay. In the month of Tarsakh, there appeared a swirling storm of raging magic, a tempest of fire and ice, acid and stone. The Wildfire Tempest raged the length of the Spine of the World before becoming trapped by the prevailing winds between the Ice Mountains and the Ice Spires. Some claimed the Wildfire Tempest was the affer-effect of a massive spell battle between the Zulkir of Evocation and the four founders of the Covenant. Others claimed no such battle ever occurred, and instead this was the manifestation of a battle for dominance between the Storm Lord and a demipower of the Underdark, known as Malyk, god of wild magic.
Whatever the providence of the Wildfire Tempest, it attracted all manner of wizards, primarily those who studied elemental magics. Normally divided into four opposing factions, these elementalists united in their faith, forming a Talassan religious order known as the Lords of the Tempest. They came to be known for their exotic combinations of elemental magic. The Wildfire Tempest persisted until the Year of the Tempest (1027 DR), when it exploded in a burst of elemental energy on the eve of Greengrass that could be seen from hundreds of miles away. Since that time, the Lords of the Tempest have continued their secretive investigations, seeking to summon another Wildfire Tempest to the Spine of the World, this time large enough to consume the very Weave, and thus allow Talos to claim the portfolio of magic.
In the centuries since the appearance of the Wildfire Tempest, the church of Talos has waxed and waned in strength in the Savage North. Of late, the Church of Talos is once again in an expansionist mode, seeking to bring the Uthgardt tribes into worship of the four Gods of Fury, thus destroying Uthgar and his spirit totems and creating an army of barbarian warriors to unleash destruction against the cities of the Lords’ Alliance.




Not totally. He lost an eye when he became Talos, which leads one to wonder how. Was it another deity or did something in theory happen to him to make him lose the eye? Its kind of why I've always kind of wondered about him. I will admit though that the specified alignment piece can be problematic, but if it were CN in THIS pantheon in THIS world... I can see a more "berserk" version of Thor that's more CN than CG (a lot of other cultures portray Thor as somewhat insane).

BTW, I have found it ironic that the Marvel Thor also loses his eye, and my version of Thor in the Metahel also gives up his eye.

PPS - I absolutely adore your work you've done and you are my favorite author (yes, I rank you higher than Ed). I hope none of this comes across otherwise.

PPPPPPPS - BTW, I also really like this as a means of having the people of Ruathym losing contact with their roots as compared to other northmen on the other side of the world and turning to their own path. The hero worship, escalation piece really fits the area. Having them turn from their old gods to the gods they see active in other nearby cultures as well makes sense.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas

Edited by - sleyvas on 30 Mar 2020 22:24:51
Go to Top of Page

ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer

USA
1758 Posts

Posted - 30 Mar 2020 :  22:44:37  Show Profile  Visit ericlboyd's Homepage Send ericlboyd a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks!

I had another thought about the Storm Lord ...

What if the "Lost Eye of Talos" explains the calm in the eye of hurricanes? It means an epic spellcaster who knows how to shape hurricanes can stand untouched in the eye of such storms, rendering Talos helpless to exact his fury.

--
http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/
Go to Top of Page

Baltas
Senior Scribe

Poland
798 Posts

Posted - 31 Mar 2020 :  07:37:21  Show Profile Send Baltas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd
The problem for me is that Kozah is an exact copy of Talos in the Netheril boxed set (down to the CE alignment). I know why (designer reasons), but given that's what's printed ...




Indeed, and this why I thought for years Talos possibly originated as Kozah.

Although Ed did imply in the Anauroch sourcebook that Kozah was at least somewhat different, being described as seen as "Lawful" among Bedine.

quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

Not totally. He lost an eye when he became Talos, which leads one to wonder how. Was it another deity or did something in theory happen to him to make him lose the eye? Its kind of why I've always kind of wondered about him. I will admit though that the specified alignment piece can be problematic, but if it were CN in THIS pantheon in THIS world... I can see a more "berserk" version of Thor that's more CN than CG (a lot of other cultures portray Thor as somewhat insane).

BTW, I have found it ironic that the Marvel Thor also loses his eye, and my version of Thor in the Metahel also gives up his eye.



With Thor, it's interesting Talos is similar to an evil combination of Thor and Odin, which also makes one one wondering about this.

About Thor being Chaotic Neutral, Thunor, the more archaic, Anglo-Saxon form of Thor, was described as Chaotic Neutral in Dragon Magazine 263. He was curiously described there as "The Warrior", but was also part of the darker side of the pantheon, along with Woden (who is though True Neutral) and Hred (Lawful Evil, "The Ice Maiden", even a bit similar to Auril), who is opposed by and to Nerthus and Eostre.

Edited by - Baltas on 31 Mar 2020 07:39:46
Go to Top of Page

LordofBones
Master of Realmslore

1273 Posts

Posted - 31 Mar 2020 :  07:53:35  Show Profile Send LordofBones a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd

Thanks!

I had another thought about the Storm Lord ...

What if the "Lost Eye of Talos" explains the calm in the eye of hurricanes? It means an epic spellcaster who knows how to shape hurricanes can stand untouched in the eye of such storms, rendering Talos helpless to exact his fury.



Technically, Talos also has a lost hand. He holds three staves in his hollow arm. Flavor text indicates that Big T is really, really old, given that the implications behind his staves.
Go to Top of Page

Delnyn
Senior Scribe

USA
475 Posts

Posted - 31 Mar 2020 :  10:14:24  Show Profile Send Delnyn a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones

quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd

Thanks!

I had another thought about the Storm Lord ...

What if the "Lost Eye of Talos" explains the calm in the eye of hurricanes? It means an epic spellcaster who knows how to shape hurricanes can stand untouched in the eye of such storms, rendering Talos helpless to exact his fury.



Technically, Talos also has a lost hand. He holds three staves in his hollow arm. Flavor text indicates that Big T is really, really old, given that the implications behind his staves.



Thinking about the staves (the spear Gungnir?), the really really old bit and especially the missing eye, Talos reminds at least me of Wotan/Odin. Yes, I admit I am stretching Occam's Razor quite a bit.
Go to Top of Page

sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
9895 Posts

Posted - 31 Mar 2020 :  22:22:08  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yeah, I've somewhat made the correlation of Thor/Odin combined, but more along the lines of Thor picking up where Odin left off and Ragnarok was wrong, he didn't die. I would not have this being tied to Ruathym at all though. He works for the Metahel. However.... IF ... Kozah were split like Tyche... and maybe he had been CN before.... such that we end up with Thoros (CG) and Talos (CE). That might be too silly though. Anyway, just for discussions sake, below is what I did for the Metahel in Anchorome since we're discussing this one idea of combining Thor and Odin. To note, the blue dragon Raethghul is meant to be a hidden reference to Gargauth and his blue dragon Rathguul, but I never developed it.


Thoros, Lord of Thunder and Lightning, Bringer of Rain, Stepfather of Yuellar, Father of the Thunder Twins and Thoordra - Much like his wife, Thoros' moods are reflected in his beard and hair color, changing from either blonde when he is acting nobly, to red when he is raging. He is seen to have lost his right eye, and he wears an eyepatch of blue dragon hide made from the wingskin torn from a great blue dragon named Raethghul whom he once fought. It is said however that beneath this patch lies the eye of his father, recovered from an ancient place of power after his father's disappearance, and those who claim to have seen it claim to have looked upon a whirling aura of stars, light, and darkness. He also lost his left arm in a fight with one of the great giant jarls of old, whose name seems to change with the telling. Thoros had this limb replaced with a magical arm of cold-forged black iron, which gives him great control of electricity and magnetism. He fights in his right hand with his famed everbleeding battle axe, Jarlsbluud, made of the bones of the first giant lord he ever killed and inlaid with carved deep green pieces of bloodstone flecked with red which are said to be organs of this giant lord. In his left hand Thoros uses his spear, Fangir, which is a piece of the world ash repeatedly lightning struck during a hurricane which threatened the tree when Thoros hung himself bleeding from it with spikes through his flesh for 16 days to uncover the power of runes. Its tip hardened by the resulting fires and engorged with the fury of the storm, Fangir is imbued with the powers of fire, wind, rain, thunder, and lightning. However, his favorite weapon is Mahljniir, a great double headed warhammer forged of the metal of a dead sun and smelted over the funeral pyre of his father, Asagrimmr, and whose second head is actually the fang of Kezris, left behind in his father's body when the great wolf killed him. The warhammer, Mahljniir, is capable of fighting on its own, and is said to possess the wit and wisdom of Asagrimmr. It also refuses to work for anyone which it does not deem worthy of its aid, though how it determines such worthiness seems to be conflicting depending on its mood. It is rumored that long ago, in return for his aid on a quest, Faerthandir blessed Thoros with such virility that when he impregnated his wife Sifya, it also awakened the seed in his former lover Yaernsacsa. Both Sifya and Yaernsacsa gave birth at the same time, and their children (Moedae and Magnaear) were twins. He is noted as having a chariot pulled by a pair of winged rams whose hooves spark and thunder as they pull him across the sky. Thoros is known to have many enemies, primarily amongst giantkind, but he is particularly known as well for having enmity with the demon lords Kostchtchie, Baphomet, and Orcus, as well as as another savage one eye god known to the Metahel people as Grumash.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
Go to Top of Page

ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer

USA
1758 Posts

Posted - 31 Mar 2020 :  22:37:59  Show Profile  Visit ericlboyd's Homepage Send ericlboyd a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones

quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd

Thanks!

I had another thought about the Storm Lord ...

What if the "Lost Eye of Talos" explains the calm in the eye of hurricanes? It means an epic spellcaster who knows how to shape hurricanes can stand untouched in the eye of such storms, rendering Talos helpless to exact his fury.



Technically, Talos also has a lost hand. He holds three staves in his hollow arm. Flavor text indicates that Big T is really, really old, given that the implications behind his staves.




At least as I wrote it up in F&A, he hasn't lost a hand. He has removable hands. With tools inside. Which, in retrospect, is a bit weird.

--
http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/

Edited by - ericlboyd on 01 Apr 2020 12:45:25
Go to Top of Page

Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
34467 Posts

Posted - 01 Apr 2020 :  15:34:01  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd

quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones

quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd

Thanks!

I had another thought about the Storm Lord ...

What if the "Lost Eye of Talos" explains the calm in the eye of hurricanes? It means an epic spellcaster who knows how to shape hurricanes can stand untouched in the eye of such storms, rendering Talos helpless to exact his fury.



Technically, Talos also has a lost hand. He holds three staves in his hollow arm. Flavor text indicates that Big T is really, really old, given that the implications behind his staves.




At least as I wrote it up in F&A, he hasn't lost a hand. He has removable hands. With tools inside. Which, in retrospect, is a bit weird.




It's less weird than the Native American deity Kokopelli. He had something detachable, but it wasn't his hands... He would drop it in a river, it would go visit a young lady bathing somewhere in that river, and then swim back.

Removable hands are nothing compared to that!

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Editor and scribe for The Candlekeep Compendium

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
Go to Top of Page

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
5376 Posts

Posted - 01 Apr 2020 :  15:54:58  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Depictions of a deity are just that, it doesnt necessarily have to resemble how the deity looks (not that anyone will actually ever see him to dispute the depiction).

Having 3 hands could have come about from the merging of the churches of kozah, bhaelros, and talos. Each church had an idea of their god wielding a separate sacred item and to ease the process of merging the churches (forced or voluntary) they decide to depict him as being able to have all 3 at the same time. Then a hundred years later someone questions how he can carry and use all three when he only has 2 hands, and so some bright spark comes up with the idea of a removable hand.

Whether it's an accurate depiction or not doesnt really matter, 99% of the population would never know if it was right or wrong.



But that's just how I deal with the god stuff.

Loving the gods of fury idea. Works great as a personification of primal forces that later evolve into the idea of a deity. The ever changing heroes to combat the gods of fury is also awesome, and I'll be willing to bet different regions of northmen worship different hero gods both past and present (leading to glorious disagreements).

Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions Candlekeep Archive
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 1
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 2
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 3
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 4
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 5
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 6
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 7
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 8
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 9

Alternate Realms Site
Go to Top of Page

ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer

USA
1758 Posts

Posted - 01 Apr 2020 :  17:04:19  Show Profile  Visit ericlboyd's Homepage Send ericlboyd a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison

Having 3 hands could have come about from the merging of the churches of kozah, bhaelros, and talos. Each church had an idea of their god wielding a separate sacred item and to ease the process of merging the churches (forced or voluntary) they decide to depict him as being able to have all 3 at the same time.



This is a great idea.

--
http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/
Go to Top of Page

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
5376 Posts

Posted - 01 Apr 2020 :  17:34:16  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Happy to have an occasional useful idea. I think I got the idea from the evolution of real world christianity and their ideas (calvinism, lutherans, etc).

Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions Candlekeep Archive
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 1
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 2
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 3
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 4
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 5
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 6
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 7
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 8
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 9

Alternate Realms Site
Go to Top of Page

Delnyn
Senior Scribe

USA
475 Posts

Posted - 01 Apr 2020 :  19:18:41  Show Profile Send Delnyn a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd

quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones

quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd

Thanks!

I had another thought about the Storm Lord ...

What if the "Lost Eye of Talos" explains the calm in the eye of hurricanes? It means an epic spellcaster who knows how to shape hurricanes can stand untouched in the eye of such storms, rendering Talos helpless to exact his fury.



Technically, Talos also has a lost hand. He holds three staves in his hollow arm. Flavor text indicates that Big T is really, really old, given that the implications behind his staves.




At least as I wrote it up in F&A, he hasn't lost a hand. He has removable hands. With tools inside. Which, in retrospect, is a bit weird.




It's less weird than the Native American deity Kokopelli. He had something detachable, but it wasn't his hands... He would drop it in a river, it would go visit a young lady bathing somewhere in that river, and then swim back.

Removable hands are nothing compared to that!



Osiris got a *ahem* similar deal when Isis and Nephthys raised him from the dead. Go figure.
Go to Top of Page

George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
6064 Posts

Posted - 02 Apr 2020 :  10:03:04  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd

quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison

Having 3 hands could have come about from the merging of the churches of kozah, bhaelros, and talos. Each church had an idea of their god wielding a separate sacred item and to ease the process of merging the churches (forced or voluntary) they decide to depict him as being able to have all 3 at the same time.



This is a great idea.



Yep, agreed. Good job Gary. Bringing it back to the "real world" is always the best way.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
Go to Top of Page

sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
9895 Posts

Posted - 02 Apr 2020 :  19:51:17  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
It's less weird than the Native American deity Kokopelli. He had something detachable, but it wasn't his hands... He would drop it in a river, it would go visit a young lady bathing somewhere in that river, and then swim back.

Removable hands are nothing compared to that!



Hmmmm, just what WAS Talos doing with that hand when he removed it...

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
Go to Top of Page

Delnyn
Senior Scribe

USA
475 Posts

Posted - 02 Apr 2020 :  20:16:49  Show Profile Send Delnyn a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
It's less weird than the Native American deity Kokopelli. He had something detachable, but it wasn't his hands... He would drop it in a river, it would go visit a young lady bathing somewhere in that river, and then swim back.

Removable hands are nothing compared to that!



Hmmmm, just what WAS Talos doing with that hand when he removed it...



Testing his lightning bolts for heft.
Go to Top of Page

TBeholder
Great Reader

2025 Posts

Posted - 07 Apr 2020 :  21:20:04  Show Profile Send TBeholder a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones

Technically, Talos also has a lost hand. He holds three staves in his hollow arm. Flavor text indicates that Big T is really, really old, given that the implications behind his staves.

Tarrasque goad? Hmm.

People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch
Go to Top of Page

LordofBones
Master of Realmslore

1273 Posts

Posted - 09 Apr 2020 :  00:12:23  Show Profile Send LordofBones a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder

quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones

Technically, Talos also has a lost hand. He holds three staves in his hollow arm. Flavor text indicates that Big T is really, really old, given that the implications behind his staves.

Tarrasque goad? Hmm.



Behind that gruff, murderous facade is a big ol' softie who loves to play fetch with his pet tarrasque, preferably in front of Sune's realm while wearing nothing but a pair of shorts.

The resident celestials of Arborea have given up trying to evict him and have resorted to begging Sune to make him go away.
Go to Top of Page

sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
9895 Posts

Posted - 09 Apr 2020 :  12:28:26  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones

quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder

quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones

Technically, Talos also has a lost hand. He holds three staves in his hollow arm. Flavor text indicates that Big T is really, really old, given that the implications behind his staves.

Tarrasque goad? Hmm.



Behind that gruff, murderous facade is a big ol' softie who loves to play fetch with his pet tarrasque, preferably in front of Sune's realm while wearing nothing but a pair of shorts.

The resident celestials of Arborea have given up trying to evict him and have resorted to begging Sune to make him go away.



Those poor celestials that he hurls for the tarrasque to go fetch...

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
Go to Top of Page

sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
9895 Posts

Posted - 15 Apr 2020 :  03:17:41  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well, I just came up with an interesting idea for me for mixing Thor and Talos... maybe something that might involve Moander in a "splitting them into two parts" move. So, one of the things we've noted that's different about Talos from Kozah is this eye, and if you lift up the eyepatch you see a darkness with stars and its bad... really bad.... (I forget the whole what it does). So, an idea that Markustay had thrown around here about two years back was the concept of the Queen of Air and Darkness being more like the black diamond itself and "infecting" other beings. He was calling it the "Regalia of Winter", and I noted that she's also tied to darkness and death/undeath so perhaps "Regalia of Darkest Deathly Winters"... willing to hear another better name.... So, such that Auril may have been infected by ONE of the facets of the diamond crafted into some piece of Regalia. But, it doesn't HAVE to be just women infected, and perhaps the "Queen" sometimes works through male gods. So, what if what's behind the eyepatch is a facet of the black diamond, and its split the Thor that was into the Talos and Thoros that are (Thoros not being in the Faerunian Pantheon). Along similar lines, the faerie version of the QoA&D is said to be the "sister" of Titania.... so perhaps Titania is a split off kind of like Tyche/Beshaba. It could also be that this might stretch back even as far as Selune/Shar.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
Go to Top of Page

Barastir
Master of Realmslore

Brazil
1584 Posts

Posted - 22 Apr 2020 :  18:22:39  Show Profile Send Barastir a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd
(...) the four Gods of Fury are the bad guys. They are unchanging and more powerful than the hero gods.

The good guys are the four hero-gods.
(...)



Very nice.

It got me thinking: in the 1e Moonshae booklet, three of the four Gods of Fury are worshipped by some northmen. However, their main deity is Tempus, worshipped as a storm god (the book says "a stormy aspect of Tempus", IIRC).

What if Tempus defeated Talos, casting him away from the Moonshaes (explaining his absence there, and his desire to regain a foot there), and taking some of his storm powers in the process? Maybe the Eathmother helped him in his rivalry agains Talos (because he would be a lesser menace to the Isles), gaining the later's enmity. And then, Tempus inspires or patrons heroes to fight Talos' lackeys...

EDIT: typos

"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."

The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood)

Edited by - Barastir on 22 Apr 2020 18:36:56
Go to Top of Page

sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
9895 Posts

Posted - 19 May 2020 :  19:40:39  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The Dawn Cock of Lathander

Someone made a 3d model that I'd thought about doing
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4373133

so I threw it in paint3d and made a picture
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Q7WavrSE5QxFLox4Ocrf-jU1AEynGuxP/view?usp=sharing

Whilst Lathander is seen as the sun god, in Ruathen myth, Lathander himself is not seen as an embodiment of the sun, but rather he rides upon "the Dawn Cock" which is seen as a personification of the sun itself. These stories are seen as well amongst the Rus in Rashemen, the northmen of the Utter East, the Arkaiun barbarians of the Shaar. Even the Metahel of Far Anchorome, with their stories of Faerthandir who rides upon his golden furred foxibou, makes reference to the "Dawn Cock", as do Kercpa myths around Rititisk the Clever. In all such myths, "the Dawn Cock" is seen to sit at the top of the world tree and pass insults, threats, and embarrassing propositions through a Kercpa intermediary named Rititisk the Clever, who passes said down to Dendar the Night Serpent who sits at the root of the world tree feeding upon them and passing similar insults, threats, and embarrassing propositions back to the "Dawn Cock". The actual name of the Dawn Cock seems to have variations throughout the world, but the basic story seems to be very similar.

Interestingly, the great tree of Ruathym, Yggdrasil's Child, possesses a mated pair of cockogriffs (as these size small rooster griffins are known), and each year new hatchlings are born. Its rumored that the surrounding woods possess dozens of cockogriff nests, with color variations to match all varieties of chickens and housecats combined. Though they fly awkwardly, the kercpa that live in Yggdrasil's Child are favored of using the cockogriffs as flying mounts, and its said that some kercpa even use their cockogriffs to deliver messages and small packages around the island and to ships at sea nearby. Some Ruathym Sea Mages and captains are also known to have cockogriff pets or familiars, for such creatures are deemed to be lucky. There are those who say that these creatures have more to do with the Aearee of Anchorome that any mythical creature, and in truth there are stories of cockogriffs in Anchorome, some even being of larger sizes (for instance, one Azuposi koyemshis (known to westerners as a "clown") is said to have met Paiyatemu (known also a Trickster and Sun Youth) and been rewarded with a cockogriff mount.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas

Edited by - sleyvas on 19 May 2020 19:45:20
Go to Top of Page

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
5376 Posts

Posted - 01 Jun 2020 :  11:15:19  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
After reading the Crystal Shard and exploring the history of Icewind Dale i came across a curious passage or two that suggests that worship of Tempus may have originated from the Ice Hunter tribes that travelled from the north of Kara-Tur across the Great Glacier.


So the Glacier of the White Worm and the Reghed Glacier both have groups of nomadic barbarians that are distantly related to one another (according to the Bloodstone Lands sourcebook the SCAG).and both of whom worship Tempus in one guise or another, as do the Nar (those of Suren origin). All these three groups are isolationist enough to be little influenced by outside peoples and thus resist the Faerunian pantheon, but they all follow a similar deity.

Could it be possible that the worship of Tempus as a lord of battles was actually created by the merging of the myths and legends of Illuskan and Ice Hunter peoples.

The proto Ice Hunter tribes travelled from northern Kara-Tur across the Great Glacier and left behind groups that formed the Suren, the Ulutiuns, the barbarians of the White Worm, and the Reghedmen and Ice Hunters of the Sword Coast.

The Ice Hunters were chased out of the Sword Coast by the barbarians who likely worshipped some horrific storm coupled with a bloodthirsty monster like humanisation that brought out the worst in people and caused untold suffering. This idea merged somewhat with the Ice Hunters veneration of ancient ancestors (one in particular being Kerpos a great horse nomad general like figure - white horse and black horse). The northmen create the idea of Tempos as a bloodthirsty warrior, who over time becomes the being worshipped in the Moonshae Isles.

On mainland Faerun, the Illuskans gradually mutate this worship to Tempus the Lord of Battles and it spreads across Faerun with the Netherese and Jhaamdath diaspora.

In the Great Glacier the Ulutiuns abandon Kerpos after the Keryjak Wars, viewing warfare as an unnecessary and unaffordable waste of resources.

The barbarians of the White Worm still worship a derivative of the original Ice Hunter deity (give him a localised name), but which any Faerunian recognises as Tempus.

The Suren Nar were of course exposed to the Shou of Kara-Tur and perhaps should have a a representation of Tempus that is perhaps closest to the original (as a particularly powerful ancestor spirit that all the tribes recognise - with a black and white horse).



Just a thought regarding the Ruathen Pantheon and the possible origin of Tempus


Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions Candlekeep Archive
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 1
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 2
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 3
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 4
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 5
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 6
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 7
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 8
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 9

Alternate Realms Site
Go to Top of Page

deserk
Learned Scribe

Norway
133 Posts

Posted - 12 Jan 2021 :  15:33:28  Show Profile Send deserk a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd

No, the four Gods of Fury are the bad guys. They are unchanging and more powerful than the hero gods.

The good guys are the four hero-gods. The current incarnations of the hero gods are Gwaeron (Hunter), Shaundakul (Wanderer), Uthgar (Warrior), and Valkur (Sailor).

The hero gods die occasionally, because they are weaker than the Gods of Fury.

Previous incarnations of the hero gods include: Skadi the Stalker (Hunter), Ruathane the Reaver (sailor), Magnur the Hamfariggen (warrior), and Ulutiu (Wanderer).

There were other incarnations of the hero gods as well.

Basically every time a hero god dies (at the hands of the Gods of Fury), a new mortal rises to take his or her place.

--Eric




Forgive me from resurrecting this thread, but I think these ideas on the Ruathen are quite intriguing.

I wonder if not the previous incarnations of these hero deities exist still as aspects of the current hero deity? Perhaps unlike the Illuskans of mainland Faerun, the Northlanders of the isles still revere many of these old hero god incarnations rather than the new ones, since there are no indications that deities like Shaundakul, Gwaeron Windstrom and Uthgar are being worshipped in the Northland isles in published Realms material. Though Valkur seems to have become a significant deity for the Northlanders in 5e (according to SCAG). Going by what Powers and Pantheons has said about Uthgar, it seems very unlikely any cultures outside of the Uthgardt would worship him, despite the fact he is a very significant figure in Ruathym's history.

Ruathane would be fitting as an aspect worshipped by the more rough-minded and war-like Ruathen sailors, bandits and reavers whom still cling strongly to the old ways of their forefathers, while Valkur would be worshipped by the more honest-dealing, progressive and adventurous sailors. Magnar the Hamfriggan would be quite fitting as an aspect worshipped in the settlements like Holgerstead (from the Tangled Webs book), where there exists a tradition of shapeshifting berserkers. Skadi could be venerated on islands like Tuern, Norland and Gnarhelm, islands where there are forestlands. She could make an interesting contrast given the Northlanders seem to generally dislike and avoid the forestlands (perhaps due to suspicions about malevolent fey and spirits within them?).

I also in general would love to see much more regional aspects, heresies and deities in the various countries and regions of Faerun. It helps to add more colour and richness to the world.

Edited by - deserk on 12 Jan 2021 15:38:06
Go to Top of Page
Page: of 2 Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
Previous Page
 New Topic  New Poll New Poll
 Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Jump To:
Candlekeep Forum © 1999-2021 Candlekeep.com Go To Top Of Page
Snitz Forums 2000