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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
 Posted - 23 Sep 2007 : 00:29:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Not to mention that Wa has a space presence, the Red Wizards have ventured into space, and some novels and short stories have involving spelljammers and spelljamming -- including Finder's Bane, where a spelljammer was used to fly to the Anauroch and enter a portal to the Outlands, and Blackstaff, where a tower was used as a spelljammer, and at least one character had a spelljamming past. Steven, too, has said that part of Khelben's past included going around, destroying wrecked spelljammers.
I also noted how the designers working on Serpent Kingdoms danced around the subject in the write-up of the Rethid Swamp [east of Halruaa]. As I happen to like the SPELLJAMMER setting, I noticed that it does not invalidate a previous reference [found in Gold & Glory]. If, however, you have no idea what SPELLJAMMER is/was, DMs are still free to use the Realmslore there.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 23 Sep 2007 00:31:10 |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 23 Sep 2007 : 01:12:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Theory 1) "At last, I have returned!" This theory is that Bane created Xvim as a shell to house his essence until such time as he could come back. The biggest point supporting this theory is Xvim's mysterious imprisonment under Zhentil Keep, during the ToT -- gotta have your offsite storage in a secure place. The biggest point against this theory is that it means Bane admitted the possibility of his own demise. Nothing I've seen about Bane suggests that the ultimate tyrant would believe it possible to be killed. I admit this theory is feasible, but I don't support it.
Actually Bane did know, See The Oracle of Strife in the FR novel Pool of Twilight |
I am the King of Rome, and above grammar
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 23 Sep 2007 : 05:16:23
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
I also noted how the designers working on Serpent Kingdoms danced around the subject in the write-up of the Rethild Swamp... <snip>
Corrected. 
MarkusTay - the Candlekeep Cartographer. 
There were also some Neogi that crashed on an Island in the Inner Sea, mentioned in Pirates of the Fallen Stars. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 23 Sep 2007 05:17:00 |
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Kajehase
Great Reader
Sweden
2104 Posts |
Posted - 23 Sep 2007 : 17:24:13
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
However, other than some bits of lore, there's never been all that much Spelljammer influence in the Realms. Some of it, though, is kinda integral: the Mulhorandi and Untheric deities arrived in the Realms via spelljammer, there was a strong spelljamming presence in the Netherese enclave of Yeoman's Loft, and the elven spelljammer's that came to Evermeet's defense centuries ago.
So far as we know, the EIN stops on Evermeet. And during the time of Cormanthyr, the Coronal's Court received EIN visitors on occasion.
Knowledge about spelljamming and how to create the uniquely elven spelljamming vessels [though not the helms themselves] was alive and well during the height of Cormanthyr's power -- as noted in Cormanthyr.
The Shou space program has waxed and waned over the years, though the Empire does still have considerable presence in both Wildspace and throughout the other Crystal Spheres. And Kara-Tur itself contains most of the known spelljamming ports on Toril.
And if you read the write-up of Oryndoll in Drizzt Do'Urden's Guide to the Underdark, you'll see Eric suggests pretty strongly that the illithids arrived in the Realms circa -11,000 DR from the planet of Glyth via spelljammers.
Evermeet, Calimport, and Nimbral also receive their share of regular spelljamming traffic from beyond Realmspace -- as noted in Dale 'Slade' Henson's Realmspace accessory.
And, since WotC have yet to declare otherwise, the other planets and Selūne that have been said to have civilizations (from the Realmspace sourcebook) largely still, likely, exist in 3e FR as well.
As well, and again since we haven't learnt otherwise, we can still assume that the stars in Realmspace are actually portals to the Plane of Radiance, so says the Realmspace sourcebook.
There was also the tidbit in The Shining South tome that suggests the Loxo arrived in Faerūn by spelljammer-type ships.
And in Grand History of the Realms, both Glyth and The Spelljammer gets a mention. |
There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett |
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freyar
Learned Scribe
Canada
220 Posts |
Posted - 23 Sep 2007 : 22:19:25
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| Not much to add about Spelljammer in the Realms, but I just once again want to comment on how different this discussion is from the identical thread topic (also posted by the Grumpy Celt) on EN World. Why do so many people want to mess with our fun because they don't like something about FR? |
My DnD Links and Creations |
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Julian Grimm
Seeker
86 Posts |
Posted - 23 Sep 2007 : 22:28:37
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| That is what I don't understand. If I found something I didn't like I changed it.Why can't they? |
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Edain Shadowstar
Senior Scribe
USA
455 Posts |
Posted - 24 Sep 2007 : 07:49:25
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An opportunity for me to grind an old axe? Why not!
I'd love to see Shade removed for all eternity and take the Shadow Weave with it.
And sure, burn Spelljammer while you at it.
Now back to your regular programming.
Addendum: Scrag Cyric too. And tell Kelemvor to stop being so emo. Now, carry on. |
Edain Shadowstar
Archwizard of Rel Astra and Waterdeep
"Mmm
pie
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- Gaius Solarian, Captain General |
Edited by - Edain Shadowstar on 24 Sep 2007 07:55:23 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
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Edain Shadowstar
Senior Scribe
USA
455 Posts |
Posted - 24 Sep 2007 : 09:59:22
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Its good to know someone out there in this series of tubes loves my multiple personality having butt.
Still, its difficult finding time away from roving the stacks under an invisibility spell to come here and properly troll.
But by the All-Seeing One he'll give it an inept old whirl! |
Edain Shadowstar
Archwizard of Rel Astra and Waterdeep
"Mmm
pie
"
- Gaius Solarian, Captain General |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 24 Sep 2007 : 14:43:48
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| The only thing that should be removed is the removal of Erlkazar (so they should bring it BACK!!!!) cutting up some land like that was so stupid and I will stp typing here cause I wasn't thinking about it and now that I do think about it, that was one of the most idiotic things that could be done (taking land away)....frk ding blast it!@!@$!@ |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Zanan
Senior Scribe
Germany
942 Posts |
Posted - 24 Sep 2007 : 15:29:28
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quote:
Originally posted by DrakulYet, Vhaeraun has females that also follow him. Interesting concept, huh?? Look at Shakti Hunzrin, she follows Lloth AND Vhaeraun. Vhaeraun does not exclude females from his Dogma.
The problem with him is/was, that he never acted like his dogma. His only female followers were these converted Masked Traitors, whom you can list on half a hand. For DD lists his clergy as 99% males and given that his clergy does not count thousands (clergy we speak of, not followers!), you probably named the only living female cleric ... ahem Masked Traitor. Then again, we do not exactly knew for which deity she actually works. Nope, he just turned the tables with his "male-only stuff" and "let's get one over the matron" attitude to make him interesting. A look at Mask shows how it should be done.
Back to the topic though ... one major factor which gets people "annoyed" with the Realms - after a first glance - is the patch-work look. Maya-land in the "Americas", Japan et al in the East, behind a large waste inhabited by nomadic Huns; Egypt in the "Near East" ... you name it. As I never played in either region, I simply cannot be bothered about it. That "damage" is done and you can only try to make it sound reasonable enough.
Chosen and high level NPC. They only annoy if they do wonderful-world-shaking things in novels, things which leave you simply aghast (e.g. the Sisters' "tea party" with the dragons in one of the Archwizards novels). While people always aspire to become like them, the feeling that some mega-chap can pop up and simply turn the world around leaves a bad taste. Then again, I never came across a DM who used such NPCs in such a way either. So you have to take much of that with the proverbial pinch (bucket-load) of salt. Funnily enough, some FR-NPC bashers hail the low-magic nature of Eberron, yet, characters who move up in levels quickly and get all those pretty powerful PrC will soon stand without opponents. And you wouldn't want to inhabited places previously cleaned by the PCs from CR 1 to 5 monsters ... after a month or two ... with CR 6 to 12 monsters, who just migrated in there? Those were the days of the 1E Dungeon Crawls.
So what should we lose? A bit of the real world touch. |
Cave quid dicis, quando et cui!
Gęš a wyrd swa hio scel!
In memory of Alura Durshavin.
Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faerūn, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more. |
Edited by - Zanan on 24 Sep 2007 15:31:19 |
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sirreus
Learned Scribe
USA
118 Posts |
Posted - 24 Sep 2007 : 17:13:55
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i don't think anything should be lost. as has been mentioned before the DM has control. the more options he has the better. i personally like the idea of all deities(atleast the majors) having a chosen, which resembles the iniate feats(many,many specific options).
i just don't like the idea of losing material that i or another dm could use to flesh out his version of toril.
anybody for what should be added? my vote is for all regions to have the same consideration that was given to: shining south, silvermarches, unapproachable east, moonsea ect.; and for all toril to be mapped. |
"The measure of an undisciplined mind, is that the intellect allows emotion to challenge the observed truth" Richard Baker |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 24 Sep 2007 : 17:43:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Zanan
Funnily enough, some FR-NPC bashers hail the low-magic nature of Eberron, yet, characters who move up in levels quickly and get all those pretty powerful PrC will soon stand without opponents.
A world with a race of intelligent, free-willed golems, with widespread use of flying ships and magical trains, is low magic? Wow, there are obviously new definitions of "low magic" out there!  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 24 Sep 2007 17:44:23 |
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Zanan
Senior Scribe
Germany
942 Posts |
Posted - 24 Sep 2007 : 23:57:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Zanan
Funnily enough, some FR-NPC bashers hail the low-magic nature of Eberron, yet, characters who move up in levels quickly and get all those pretty powerful PrC will soon stand without opponents.
A world with a race of intelligent, free-willed golems, with widespread use of flying ships and magical trains, is low magic? Wow, there are obviously new definitions of "low magic" out there!
Well, hand on heart, I haven't read that much* Eberron so far. Let's turn my argument by some 35° and say: a world with few high level characters (10+ that is), compared to other settings.
*Just in case, "not much" does not equate with "nothing". Compared to my knowledge on the Realms though, I have read VERY little about Eberron. |
Cave quid dicis, quando et cui!
Gęš a wyrd swa hio scel!
In memory of Alura Durshavin.
Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faerūn, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more. |
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Wandering_mage
Senior Scribe
688 Posts |
Posted - 25 Sep 2007 : 01:03:59
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Get rid of the magic marts. It takes away from the true treasure hunting. And in the FR setting there are plenty of lairs to pick through.
Keep the Shadow weave and the Princes of Shade. Why? Because it brings balance and unique ways to unbalance magic. Shar is a pain, and we need a few good weave users to teach her minions a lesson! Huzzah!!!! Meteor Swarm and Magic Missile! Shadow Free of course.
Give Cormyr a breather. :) |
Illum
The Wandering Mage |
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Zanan
Senior Scribe
Germany
942 Posts |
Posted - 25 Sep 2007 : 09:47:47
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Magic Marts? Dunno, but I haven't read that much on them. Is this a misconception carried over from Baldur's Gate II? I mean, there are place were you can barter magic stuff - where else would you get hard coin for all the loot? - but I never found it excessive.
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Cave quid dicis, quando et cui!
Gęš a wyrd swa hio scel!
In memory of Alura Durshavin.
Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faerūn, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11696 Posts |
Posted - 25 Sep 2007 : 20:52:56
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Not to be flippant, but I think the setting needs to loose game designers and executives that don't take the time to get a "feel" for the world and feel obligated to bolt on whatever seems cool at the moment instead of figuring out what drew people to the setting in the first place.
You tell 'em Knight |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11696 Posts |
Posted - 25 Sep 2007 : 21:07:35
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| I really don't have a problem with the magic marts, so long as its base items that are +1 or +2. Even a few +3 items thrown in. Because basically, the party uncovers a lot of stuff and they're going to do something with it. Most likely they'll sell it. Its the finding of someone who is willing to make them a +3 weapon with 6 add-ons that's gonna be harder to believe. However, if you look at the rules for the Thayan enclaves, they weren't going to sell that kind of item. They sold the cheap stuff. Finding a wizard willing to make you said item should involve doing some favors for him (maybe illicit ones). |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11696 Posts |
Posted - 25 Sep 2007 : 21:47:22
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Hmmm, what should change?
The underdark and the surface are too often treated as entirely independent entities. Notes in products should expand on contacts between these two disparate cultures a little more.
Something needs to happen with Mulmaster. There's a lot happening on the other side of the Moonsea, and they should be able to make some grabs. I've always liked the idea that they seize down to the city of King's Reach and form a small kingdom, having friction with their good neighbors of Impiltur. Maybe they pull in some slaves from nearby Thar to help work the land, establishing a state religion worshipping Bane. Perhaps they even aid the former lord of Hillsfar in recovering his city, in return for fealty to the nation of Mulmaster.... thus cutting off Zhentil Keep's ships from entering the Moonsea. Mind Mages (psionic and enchanters) serving the crown could keep people under control, etc...
The witches of Rashemen need to be portrayed as more sectish. They should not be united under one banner. There needs to be different and varied traditions amongst the witches (much as how the spirit shamans were recently portrayed as a different group).
Cooperative magic needs to have different abilities for different groups. Giving out the ability to create a circle to each group just sloppies up the differences between the various groups. Also, with only 9 spell levels, the ability to heighten to lvl 20 allows a spell to gain a DC which is mostly unwinnable. With magic changing, and depending on the math of DC's in the future, this may be different later. Going back to 2nd edition roots for the ideas that the various groups can do would be better. For instance, maybe the Rashemi gain the ability to empower and maximize spells, and maybe they can trade in for some abilities to affect elemental magic better... maybe they can trade in for some spirit related magic... maybe they can use their circles to enhance the warriors on the battlefield with animal spirits. Similiarly, the Thayans are often referenced using their circles on the battlefield.. maybe it gives them some ability to widen or lengthen spells... they also could previously memorize more spells (which could maybe be portrayed as working like a pearl of power to cast spells without wiping memory... and this only working while the circle is still formed)... they also used their circles to control constructs... maybe they could also use the circles to control larger numbers of undead than they could normally (thus, breaking up the circle becomes a good battlefield tactic).... For the Halruaans, perhaps they use their cooperative magic to multi-task magical effects (scrying, forming a "planar link" through the scrying, and delivering an effect through such... this should be a very powerful effect, and should be dangerous to use).... or maybe to work together to use a magical device for which they don't have the ability (ex. several wizards trying to use a staff to cast a cleric raise dead using the use magic device skill). These types of cooperative magics should enhance the vision of the culture, not make them look just like another under the rules.
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Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Brynweir
Senior Scribe
USA
436 Posts |
Posted - 25 Sep 2007 : 22:32:59
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I have to agree that I like the idea of only Mystra having Chosen, but I think they too should be limited.
I hate the idea of magic shops because if it was really that easy to get all the great "stuff" then nobody would adventure -we'd all just buy our fun.
I'd also love to see the realms fleshed out a bit more. I am always looking for good maps and city layouts.
However, I am of the belief that if you don't like something then you can change it. You're the DM for goodness sake -if you think the Chosen are too strong, then don't use them. If you don't want the PCs to buy magic items then don't let them shop. Control your game. |
Anyone who likes to read something that's really dark and gritty and completely awesome ought to read The Night Angel Trilogy by Brent Weeks. You can check out a little taste at www.BrentWeeks.com I should probably warn you, though, that it is definitely not PG-13 :-D
He also started a new Trilogy with Black Prism, which may even surpass the Night Angel Trilogy in its awesomeness.
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 25 Sep 2007 : 22:41:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Zanan
Magic Marts? Dunno, but I haven't read that much on them. Is this a misconception carried over from Baldur's Gate II? I mean, there are place were you can barter magic stuff - where else would you get hard coin for all the loot? - but I never found it excessive.
While I know that the Thayans sold items in the Enclaves, I never really got the feeling that anywhere in the Realms you could just walk into Ye Olde Magic Shoppe and pick up a Staff of the Magi, a dozen magic missle wands, and a holy avenger.
If no one in the party could make magic items, I'm not against having them go up to a powerful cleric or wizard and asking for an item to be made to order, but when this happens, as DM you can say things like
"alright, but I need you to put on this amulet, so that I can use some of the experiences and dreams that you have to help power this item."
and
"Now that that is taken care of, in order to make this staff you want, I'll need the dead wood from this particular tree . . . its on the map right next to the beholder's lair."
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Uzzy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
618 Posts |
Posted - 25 Sep 2007 : 23:23:40
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I'd do the following.
Change the non-Mystran chosen to 'Divine Champions'. As mentioned before, the Mystran Chosen are a special case. Nothing is lost by calling the likes of Fzoul a Divine Champion of Bane. It's just nice to differentiate.
Get rid of Kara-Tur, Zakhara and Maztica. Or at least rewrite them. I find them annoying in the extreme. I quite like my Realms to be a truly different world, not one where a Khan comes in on horseback to raid the known world, where the Easterners have a wall to keep out the hordes, where the Aztec Gods exist. It's awkward.
I don't mind magic shops, as long as what is sold is reasonable. Nothing too major, especially if it's a permanent use item. |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 26 Sep 2007 : 00:14:03
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Plainly the Realms doesn't 'need' to do anything. This incoherent idea obscures the real questions: What design goals would you like the Realms to work to? How can it best achieve those goals?
Most of the time people say 'X setting should Y' they just mean they want it to reflect their own preferences. There is hardly a more dangerous error than to externalize mental states by turning 'I feel' into 'it is' or 'he should'.quote:
Originally posted by The Grumpy Celt
An often cited example is the Chosen high powder heroes who (A) do all the work, leaving the work and/or (B) use and abuse the PCs.
(A) is straightforwardly false and is not part of any serious discussion of the Realms except in terms of how it can better explain itself. You certainly can't change a setting to fix something that doesn't exist. (B) is part of how the Realms works -- people manipulate and are manipulated by each other -- and has nothing to do with any group of characters in particular.quote:
Originally posted by Darkmeer
A thought about the magic shops... How else do you expect the PC's to spend money? Building keeps & such is only fun for so long since the hireling & followers rules aren't exactly clear on what happens.
Well, why is your character seeking treasure? Why is she risking her life adventuring? There are any number of reasons, most with nothing to do with shopping for magical items (you couldn't have a plainer contradiction in terms than disenchanting magic) or with game rules for followers. |
Edited by - Faraer on 26 Sep 2007 00:18:39 |
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BlackMoria
Acolyte
Canada
36 Posts |
Posted - 26 Sep 2007 : 16:55:05
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I was never a fan of Maztica. The correlation between Aztec culture and the Amn explorers = Spanish Conquistadors is just too unsubtle for me to swallow and if it went away and never came back, it would be fine with me.
Kara Tur = China / Japan / Korea is a tad too clique but I can take it or leave it.
Oddly enough, I like Zakahara, even if it is Arabic culture analog. Perhaps it because I don't known enough real world Persian/Arab culture for the analog to rankle me. Maybe it my liking the various old Sinbad movies when I was growing up. Maybe it something about Persian culture that says 'magical' to me (Sinbad movies, Aladdin and the Lamp, etc) while Aztec doesn't.
If it was my call, Zakahara - you can stay, Kara Tur - you can stay as well but Maztica, your outta here. |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 26 Sep 2007 : 18:00:28
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quote:
Originally posted by BlackMoria
I was never a fan of Maztica. The correlation between Aztec culture and the Amn explorers = Spanish Conquistadors is just too unsubtle for me to swallow and if it went away and never came back, it would be fine with me.
Kara Tur = China / Japan / Korea is a tad too clique but I can take it or leave it.
Oddly enough, I like Zakahara, even if it is Arabic culture analog. Perhaps it because I don't known enough real world Persian/Arab culture for the analog to rankle me. Maybe it my liking the various old Sinbad movies when I was growing up. Maybe it something about Persian culture that says 'magical' to me (Sinbad movies, Aladdin and the Lamp, etc) while Aztec doesn't.
If it was my call, Zakahara - you can stay, Kara Tur - you can stay as well but Maztica, your outta here.
That was in my opinion the saving aspect of Zakhara in contrast with the other "Real World" settings, it was based on pulp versions of middle eastern cultures and a hodgepodge of ideas, cultures and epochs. One can discuss how well it fitted in the Realms, but it was a good setting. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 26 Sep 2007 : 19:32:04
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quote:
Originally posted by BlackMoria
If it was my call, Zakahara - you can stay, Kara Tur - you can stay as well but Maztica, your outta here.
Do not blame poor design on the landmasses and cultures given. All of those regions are fixable, especially Maztica now that Helm is dead. Please don't suggest "we throw the baby out with the bathwater".
quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
The only thing that should be removed is the removal of Erlkazar (so they should bring it BACK!!!!) cutting up some land like that was so stupid and I will stp typing here cause I wasn't thinking about it and now that I do think about it, that was one of the most idiotic things that could be done (taking land away)....frk ding blast it!@!@$!
Erlkazar is still there, just check my Erlkazar map -
http://markustay.deviantart.com/art/New-Full-size-Erlkazar-53442070
It's been 'Schend approved', so consider it semi-official.
BTW, there is an even better version coming soon, as part of my complete set of western Faerūn maps. Erlkazar gets a bit more 'open' territory like it used to, and other locales are better placed as well.
I also brought back Shaareach, which can be seen here -
http://markustay.deviantart.com/art/The-Shaar-Region-64702349
Not as big as it used to be, but it was a tight fit. That map is incomplete BTW, so expect MANY updates to it in the near future. Many names, settlements, roads, etc are still missing.
I wasn't going to bother continuuing my campaign to bring back 2e locations into 3e maps, but many folks have expressed interest in me doing so, even though 4e will most likely rend them all null and void. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 26 Sep 2007 : 21:10:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
quote:
Originally posted by BlackMoria
If it was my call, Zakahara - you can stay, Kara Tur - you can stay as well but Maztica, your outta here.
Do not blame poor design on the landmasses and cultures given. All of those regions are fixable, especially Maztica now that Helm is dead. Please don't suggest "we throw the baby out with the bathwater".
quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
The only thing that should be removed is the removal of Erlkazar (so they should bring it BACK!!!!) cutting up some land like that was so stupid and I will stp typing here cause I wasn't thinking about it and now that I do think about it, that was one of the most idiotic things that could be done (taking land away)....frk ding blast it!@!@$!
Erlkazar is still there, just check my Erlkazar map -
http://markustay.deviantart.com/art/New-Full-size-Erlkazar-53442070
It's been 'Schend approved', so consider it semi-official.
BTW, there is an even better version coming soon, as part of my complete set of western Faerūn maps. Erlkazar gets a bit more 'open' territory like it used to, and other locales are better placed as well.
I also brought back Shaareach, which can be seen here -
http://markustay.deviantart.com/art/The-Shaar-Region-64702349
Not as big as it used to be, but it was a tight fit. That map is incomplete BTW, so expect MANY updates to it in the near future. Many names, settlements, roads, etc are still missing.
I wasn't going to bother continuuing my campaign to bring back 2e locations into 3e maps, but many folks have expressed interest in me doing so, even though 4e will most likely rend them all null and void.
It may be a moot point, but even thought I think that they were poorly introduced into the Realms, I don't like to see anything that has been firmly establish just disappear, at least not officially. The great article on Kourmira/the Hordelands in Dragon Magazine was an example of how you can "take back" some of the things that were tacked onto the setting by keeping the overall flavor of the region and adding in lots of Realmsian connections and lore.
The point about Zhakara is a good one. Of all of the "Real World" tack ons, it was probably the most fun, because it wasn't trying to be too much of a historical analog so much as a mythic/folklore/pulp version of the middle east. It played up the swashbuckling and genies and flying carpets, and didn't get bogged down with psuedo historical events and trying to explain Zhakaran culture as being painfully accurate to history "except they have some magic thrown in there to," which is why Maztica has never felt like a good fit.
I'd point out that while Kara-Tur falls into this trap in a lot of OA products, the best Kara-Tur products are those that emulate Jeff Grubb's style in Ochimo, the Spirit Warrior and Mad Monkey versus Dragon Claw where there seems to be a nice mix of high fantasy, asian flavor, asian folklore, mythic elements, and even some Realmsian tropes (hidden power groups, merchant families, cults backed by mysterious planar beings).
So I guess I'd have to say, in terms of what "worked" with the established setting, Zhakara (whose biggest "glitch" is likely that there were already several proto-"Arabian" areas in the setting) probably was the best of the bunch, followed by inconsistant performance by Kara-Tur, then the (pre Dragon 3.5 article) Hordelands, and finally Maztica.
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Mumadar Ibn Huzal
Master of Realmslore
1338 Posts |
Posted - 26 Sep 2007 : 21:16:17
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Make sure you post an update when the revised western Faerun maps are out - I use these quite frequently for reference. Keep up the good work.
As for being back on topic: for me the Realms could do without RAS and Drizzt. While I have several of RAS works, I do not rate them as top literature (bestseller listings notwithstanding) and IMO they are only connected to the Realms by the extensive retconning that seems required everytime RAS turns his pen/typewriter in the direction of the Realms. |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 27 Sep 2007 : 06:25:08
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
So I guess I'd have to say, in terms of what "worked" with the established setting, Zhakara (whose biggest "glitch" is likely that there were already several proto-"Arabian" areas in the setting) probably was the best of the bunch, followed by inconsistant performance by Kara-Tur, then the (pre Dragon 3.5 article) Hordelands, and finally Maztica.
At the same time the glitch was what made Zakhara work in a relationship with Faerun, as it tied the continent to the lands of the north. Even when it was not mentioned in writing one could always assume that the ties between the continents were responsible for cultural elements moving around the world.
As for the Hordelands, that is a strange one. The most out of place element is the horde itself, the geography in the box set is OK and rather interesting, but it doesnt all come together ass a whole. |
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Haman
Seeker
USA
60 Posts |
Posted - 27 Sep 2007 : 22:39:49
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I think the setting should lose everyone that rants and complains about the changes it's going through before we've even seen the final product.
Oh, and the "Great Glacier" supplement should be stricken from any list that claims it's an FR source product. |
Some people say we gamers have no lives....I think we have too many. |
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What should the setting lose?
