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Xysma
Master of Realmslore
USA
1089 Posts |
 Posted - 14 Sep 2007 : 18:23:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Bah. To me, these changes just feel like a slap in the face. I don't like the sound of them, and I believe that the Realms is very quickly becoming radicially different from what it was meant to be.
Agreed, these glimpses into the future of the Realms make me want to curl up in a little ball with my FRCS and pretend this whole 4ed thing was all a bad dream. But... I am not giving up yet. As long as Ed, Eric, Steven, and Eytan are involved in the creation process, I will give the new Realms a chance. Years ago I swore that I would never play any rpg other than D&D set in the Forgotten Realms, and that still holds. Whether or not we move on into the 4ed Realms at this point is totally dependent on what I think about the 4ed FRCS. I will buy that tome regardless of any of the teasers or rampant speculation that goes on prior to the release of that book. If I read that book and hate the new Realms, I will sadly put it away and very contently spend the rest of my gaming life using 2ed and 3ed Realms products. |
War to slay, not to fight long and glorious.
Aermhar of the Tangletrees
Year of the Hooded Falcon
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Guide to the Tomes and Tales of the Realms download from Candlekeep
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ywhtptgtfo
Seeker
89 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2007 : 19:38:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Lameth
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
quote:
Originally posted by Skeptic
Wulfgar, Cattie-Brie and the rest are living in the main part of the novel which is not happening 100 years later. Only the prologue and the epilogue is.
If true, the bloody prologue is not a prologue to the novel (though it might be to 4th FR).
Hell no!
That would mean Drizzt will not die!!!!
That doesn't mean Lolth will not use Drizzt's spine as a tooth pick in later novels. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2007 : 20:19:58
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Drizzt, believe it or not, is the only thing we are sure about in 4e.
We were promised that Elminster would survive, but thats a far cry from being an Archmage. After reading about the Spellplague, I would imagine he's hiding in someone's closet right now.
Entreri will probably survive as well, else why have him absorb a Shade?
Except for Cadderly & company, I think the only thing we will have from the old gaurd are all of RAS's characters.
Scarey, huh? Welcome to Drizztopia..... |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2007 : 00:45:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Xysma
And now you've made me laugh out loud 
I'm so glad.
quote:
Agreed, these glimpses into the future of the Realms make me want to curl up in a little ball with my FRCS and pretend this whole 4ed thing was all a bad dream. But... I am not giving up yet. As long as Ed, Eric, Steven, and Eytan are involved in the creation process, I will give the new Realms a chance. Years ago I swore that I would never play any rpg other than D&D set in the Forgotten Realms, and that still holds. Whether or not we move on into the 4ed Realms at this point is totally dependent on what I think about the 4ed FRCS. I will buy that tome regardless of any of the teasers or rampant speculation that goes on prior to the release of that book. If I read that book and hate the new Realms, I will sadly put it away and very contently spend the rest of my gaming life using 2ed and 3ed Realms products.
Yeah, I'll definitely stick with the Realms, too--the old Realms, of course.  If you try out 4E Realms and you like it, though, I certainly hope you enjoy it. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Xysma
Master of Realmslore
USA
1089 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2007 : 03:24:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Yeah, I'll definitely stick with the Realms, too--the old Realms, of course. If you try out 4E Realms and you like it, though, I certainly hope you enjoy it.
Hells, if I try it and like it I will be so happy that I will scream it from mountaintops. Of course I am not holding on to too much hope that this will be the case. The glass seems to be getting emptier and emptier. |
War to slay, not to fight long and glorious.
Aermhar of the Tangletrees
Year of the Hooded Falcon
Xysma's Gallery
Guide to the Tomes and Tales of the Realms download from Candlekeep
Anthologies and Tales Overviews
Check out my custom action figures, hand-painted miniatures, gaming products, and other stuff on eBay.
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ywhtptgtfo
Seeker
89 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2007 : 10:12:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Except for Cadderly & company, I think the only thing we will have from the old gaurd are all of RAS's characters.
Scarey, huh? Welcome to Drizztopia.....
Elves, drows, and Chosens of Mystra (if they survive) too. It's mostly the human NPC's who will suffer.
Sigh... seems like Matteo and Tzigones' storyline will not be revisited. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2007 : 16:24:49
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quote:
Originally posted by ywhtptgtfo
Sigh... seems like Matteo and Tzigones' storyline will not be revisited.
Well, that was a sad truth, even without an edition change. Among other things, WotC has a proven reluctance to revisit any but the most prominent characters. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3563 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2007 : 21:55:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by ywhtptgtfo
Sigh... seems like Matteo and Tzigones' storyline will not be revisited.
Well, that was a sad truth, even without an edition change. Among other things, WotC has a proven reluctance to revisit any but the most prominent characters.
I love when any of Elaine's characters are re-visited. |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Xysma
Master of Realmslore
USA
1089 Posts |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3563 Posts |
Posted - 19 Sep 2007 : 20:30:25
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I think I have this all figured out in a way that makes sense for all and can let Wotc back up a bit
The prologue happens when Drizzt makes a sojurn back to Mooshie's groove and eats a bowl of what appears to be a normal bowl of "wild mushroom" stew. |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Vanidariaen
Acolyte
USA
11 Posts |
Posted - 19 Sep 2007 : 22:29:05
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| Well.. I read the prologue because of all the buz and I'm not sure what to say. I think there has been a lot of speculation drawn from a rather small amount of text. I personally can't believe WotC would give us such a glimse of the future. I have a feeling that the prologue is not what it seems. I think I will hold judgment until I have some more information, but by the gods I hope all the speculation so far has been wrong. |
http://tom.myhereandhereafter.com |
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Ayunken-vanzan
Senior Scribe
Germany
657 Posts |
Posted - 19 Sep 2007 : 23:16:43
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| Unfortunately, the informations from Orc King has been backed up by the Grand History of the Realms where one can find more information for ruin of many realms, the death of various deities and the reason for the spellplague ... |
"What mattered our lives now? When our world had been torn from us? Folk wept, or drank, or stood staring out over the land, wondering what new horror each dawn would bring."
Elender Stormfall of Suzail
"Anyone can kill deities, cause plagues, or destroy organizations. It takes real skill to make them live on."
Varl
FR/D&D-Links • 2ed Downloads |
Edited by - Ayunken-vanzan on 19 Sep 2007 23:17:01 |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 20 Sep 2007 : 00:02:54
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quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
I think I have this all figured out in a way that makes sense for all and can let Wotc back up a bit
The prologue happens when Drizzt makes a sojurn back to Mooshie's groove and eats a bowl of what appears to be a normal bowl of "wild mushroom" stew.
God, you guys are so good at making me laugh. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 20 Sep 2007 : 00:04:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayunken-vanzan
Unfortunately, the informations from Orc King has been backed up by the Grand History of the Realms where one can find more information for ruin of many realms, the death of various deities and the reason for the spellplague ...
That's correct. Sorry, Vani, but this time it really is what it seems to be.
I agree that we haven't be told everything though. Still, it's only natural that people are going to comment on what they DO know. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3563 Posts |
Posted - 20 Sep 2007 : 03:31:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
I think I have this all figured out in a way that makes sense for all and can let Wotc back up a bit
The prologue happens when Drizzt makes a sojurn back to Mooshie's groove and eats a bowl of what appears to be a normal bowl of "wild mushroom" stew.
God, you guys are so good at making me laugh.
Now that put quite a smile on my face to be sure!! As I live to make you laugh Milady |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Vanidariaen
Acolyte
USA
11 Posts |
Posted - 20 Sep 2007 : 14:56:06
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| I haven't received my copy of Grand History yet. As soon as I get it and read it I'll be able to make a more informed opinion. I do understand everyone's angst at the perposed changes. I've loved the realms for more than 20 years and there are many characters I love and love to hate. I guess I'm just as worried as the rest of you, but was in a state of denial. If Ed of the Greenwood can stick with it, then I suppose I will to. I must be much more tramatic for him then for any of us. |
http://tom.myhereandhereafter.com |
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The Grumpy Celt
Acolyte
46 Posts |
Posted - 24 Sep 2007 : 00:54:30
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The book is out now. Has anyone read it?
Aside the from the prolog, the story is set in 1375 or so, following closely on the last novel. |
"It's all fun and games until someone loses an eye."
-Vecna |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3563 Posts |
Posted - 25 Sep 2007 : 18:50:31
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quote:
Originally posted by The Grumpy Celt
The book is out now. Has anyone read it?
Aside the from the prolog, the story is set in 1375 or so, following closely on the last novel.
I want to read it now, but I am putting off buying it for another week or so.
I want to give it a fair chance and let my shock from the prologue fade.( or see if it does) |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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TwigB
Acolyte
South Africa
46 Posts |
Posted - 26 Sep 2007 : 13:35:04
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| Although these changes seem quite intense, I for one relish the idea of turning the Realms on its head. The Realms has always been an institution, the campaign setting that never lets you down. When your players needed villain, there was the Zhentarim or the Red Wizards or The Cult of the Dragon etc. Harpers were good guys and the Dalelands was starting point for adventures…As much as I loved this…wouldn’t it be neat to see this whole system go haywire. Wouldn’t I be neat if the Zhentarim actually conquered the Dales or the Cult of the Dragon gets completely eradicated? I like the idea of playing in a whole new world that is still the Realms. I for one am looking forward to these changes because I doubt the Red Wizards will become the Pink Wizards and the Harpers become the Drummers…. |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3563 Posts |
Posted - 27 Sep 2007 : 18:39:29
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I just bought the book last night and even though I am in the middle of another book I read the Prologue again.
All I can say is Grrrrrrrrrrrrrr
Stupid CCC...is just so demeaning to me. My great-grandma's family ran an Underground Railroad stop at there home in the civil war. I think it is way to close to kkk....it just burns me up.
I will still read it, but I darn near ripped out the prologue.
Also rubbed me the wrong way how quickly Drizzt judged the elf wizard. I mean get real dude....after all you killed one of your own(also a wizard) beacuse you wanted Guen. (I know it was more complicated that that, but it can be boiled down to being that simple. Especially if he is in to judging people that quickly now.) |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Vanidariaen
Acolyte
USA
11 Posts |
Posted - 27 Sep 2007 : 20:59:38
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| I finished Orc King today and, prologue aside, I liked it. It was a typical Drizzt novel with a lot of action and views into the main characters person thoughts. It kept me turning the pages eventhough the prologue obviously "spoiled" the outcome. |
http://tom.myhereandhereafter.com |
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TobyKikami
Learned Scribe
USA
113 Posts |
Posted - 28 Sep 2007 : 15:23:40
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quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
I just bought the book last night and even though I am in the middle of another book I read the Prologue again.
All I can say is Grrrrrrrrrrrrrr
Stupid CCC...is just so demeaning to me. My great-grandma's family ran an Underground Railroad stop at there home in the civil war. I think it is way to close to kkk....it just burns me up.
It puts me in mind of the Church of Selune's indulgences (and I'm still boggling a bit at that. I mean, Selune), except indulgences were more medieval-era anyway and the "Triple C" comes off as, shall we say, somewhat anachronistic (hoods and all).
quote:
Also rubbed me the wrong way how quickly Drizzt judged the elf wizard. I mean get real dude....after all you killed one of your own(also a wizard) beacuse you wanted Guen. (I know it was more complicated that that, but it can be boiled down to being that simple. Especially if he is in to judging people that quickly now.)
That reminds me of the retcon between Crystal Shard and Homeland. In Crystal Shard, when giving the Cliffs Notes of his past, Drizzt just up and stabbed Masoj in the back, grabbed the statuette, and ran. In Homeland Masoj was actively out to get him.
quote:
Originally posted by Vanidariaen
I finished Orc King today and, prologue aside, I liked it. It was a typical Drizzt novel with a lot of action and views into the main characters person thoughts. It kept me turning the pages eventhough the prologue obviously "spoiled" the outcome.
I guess part of it is that (general) you wants to keep reading to see how they get there. |
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 28 Sep 2007 : 23:52:17
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I'm two chapters into the Orc King... wow... so far I really don't like the feel of this book... the feel of these new Realms in general. Humans/dwarves/elves bickering amongst themselves over bloody orcs and their right to "liiiiiiiive!" screw that!
And that whole CCC thinks is just despicable. Wow. Drizzt swording dwarves (not going for the kill though) and (of course) moon elves fascists killing human orc hunters without hesitation. Why am I not surprised that this bloody good drow is sooooo good that he even "beats" goodly surface elves in terms of goodness... Blech. Drizzt the Icon is becoming Drizzt the charicature. I used to find it cool when he was waxing philosophy... but hell now?!? it's just soooo lame and patronizing and Deus Ex Machina that I have no time for it. No. Drizzt is now a bloody charicature of what he was as a character in the earlier books. I bet that in the "New Realms" the humans/dwarves have sayings about Drizzt akin to our real-world Chuck Norris jokes. Somewhere along the line RAS should have stopped and made a Regis book or something (maybe a book about Regis going on an adventure with a bunch of dwarves to find a ring and plunder a red dragon's hoard?) Sheesh.
Blech. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2007 : 00:09:30
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"Toto, I don't think we're in Kansas anymore..."
Reading into things -
I don't have the book, but I've already heard a couple of complaints regarding the 'deckeled' edge. Rich Baker has replied over at WotC that it was intentionally in order to give the book that 'old' feel.
Hmmmmmm...
So a book set in 1372 DR should have that 'ancient, dusty tome' feel to it? 
Call me a conspiracy theorist, but this does not bode well.....  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 29 Sep 2007 00:09:55 |
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Arbourean
Acolyte
2 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2007 : 19:11:44
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I finished reading it the other day. It was good overall, and I have no complaints about the establishment of Many-Arrows. Orcs turning wholesale to Good? That's stretching it, though.
In the prologue, I did find Drizzt to be excessively judgmental, and he's clearly shifting more towards a lawful alignment, but then again if he has witnessed the fall of civilizations and the deaths of his friends then I cannot blame him for wanting to keep the tenuous peace.
What gets me is they can live with the orcs, yet Nesme is regarded as a bunch of inbred bigots because they *gasp!* refused to let a drow elf into their city years ago. That's not bigotry, it's prudence. I swear I wanted to reach in and smack Wulfgar the kidnapper and Cattie-brie upside the head.
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Crust
Learned Scribe
USA
273 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2007 : 20:10:41
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The prologue stunned me. I heard a rumor that the 4E FR will rocket 100 years into the future. The prologue had me thinking, "It's happening already? I'm not ready!"
Obould IV? My mind reeled. CURSES! Drizzt fails? Obould's children lived after the next trilogy? I've been waiting for Drizzt to end Obould since 2002, and after 100 years (is that right?), he still hasn't done it? This is like some nightmare episode of Dragonball Z where a whole lot of nothing happens.
I calmed down after a bit. I took the prologue for what it is. Certainly Drizzt can still kill "an" Obould, so that possibility isn't spoiled. Then I paged ahead and realized that the book isn't a time warp, so everything is ok. I'm glad to see Guen is still around, of course, and the hint at lost friends is interesting. It's the D&D nerd in me that jumped when Drizzt used the word "law" in his explanation to the elf lord. I thought, "He's LG in 100 years." That was easy. Even though it's short, I think the prologue packed a lot of great stuff into its pages. I really felt like it was 100 years later.
I do think it's absolutely fascinating that RAS is doing this. Are orcs evil or just misunderstood? Could it be that dwarves, elves, and humans are simply unable to understand the mind and heart of the orc, and therefore ignorantly jump to the conclusion that orcs should be driven away and/or attacked on sight? Do orcs deserve to live the same as dwarves, elves, and humans? Would the world be a better place with orcs amongst the free peoples of the Silver Marches?
The later Drizzt novels can really be looked at critically. Is RAS saying something about his views of the world through Obould's orc nation? Could the events of the novel mirror events in the real world? These later books make the reader (well, me at least) look to their own world as much as Faerun... more so than other FR books, at least. It's these connections to the real world that could turn a book into a movie. |
"That's right, hurl back views that force ye to think by name-calling - 'tis the grand old tradition, let it not down! Anything to keep from having to think, or - Mystra forfend - change thy own views!"
Narnra glowered at her father. "Just how am I to learn how to think? By being taught by you?"
"Some folk in the Realms would give their lives for the chance to learn at my feet," Elminster said mildly. "Several already have."
~from Elminster's Daughter, Ed Greenwood |
Edited by - Crust on 29 Sep 2007 20:14:24 |
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2007 : 02:07:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Crust
It's these connections to the real world that could turn a book into a movie.
Wow. If the first Realms movie is ever fashioned after the orc-loving politically correct Silver Marshes, I'm moving to Mexico.
But seriously: if you're looking at RAS to improve your understanding of the ahem... "unfortunate" ahem.. events going on in our real-world, you're not doing yourself a favor. Pick up the newspaper once in a while, get involved in your community, etc.
It would be nice that the prologue was indeed some kind of shroom-induced Dragonball Z bad trip or dream one of the RAS characters has, but I'm way past the point of hope now, having purchased GHotR and looking at the few last pages...
Mod Note: Make sure to be careful with the language . . . |
Edited by - Purple Dragon Knight on 30 Sep 2007 03:50:33 |
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Crust
Learned Scribe
USA
273 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2007 : 05:11:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Purple Dragon Knight
But seriously: if you're looking at RAS to improve your understanding of the ahem... "unfortunate" ahem.. events going on in our real-world, you're not doing yourself a favor. Pick up the newspaper once in a while, get involved in your community, etc.
You didn't think I meant any of what you're suggesting, did you? RAS is obviously not a source for anything other than swords-and-sorcery fiction.
I think the similarities to real-world problems make these books movie-accessible to the general public. The average movie-goer isn't going to be able to digest the vast depth of Faerun and all that (probably wouldn't care to either), but a loose tie-in to the real world (like was done in 300) can capture the mainstream audience. That's all I meant.
Anything would be better than the existing D&D movies anyway. |
"That's right, hurl back views that force ye to think by name-calling - 'tis the grand old tradition, let it not down! Anything to keep from having to think, or - Mystra forfend - change thy own views!"
Narnra glowered at her father. "Just how am I to learn how to think? By being taught by you?"
"Some folk in the Realms would give their lives for the chance to learn at my feet," Elminster said mildly. "Several already have."
~from Elminster's Daughter, Ed Greenwood |
Edited by - Crust on 30 Sep 2007 05:13:55 |
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2007 : 22:48:30
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| We both agree on something! [shudders at the thought of the two D&D movies made so far...] |
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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2007 : 22:59:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Crust
The later Drizzt novels can really be looked at critically. Is RAS saying something about his views of the world through Obould's orc nation? Could the events of the novel mirror events in the real world? These later books make the reader (well, me at least) look to their own world as much as Faerun... more so than other FR books, at least. It's these connections to the real world that could turn a book into a movie.
Well, the purpose of a story is usually to talk about "real-world" human issues.
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The Orc King prologue discussion (SPOILERS)
