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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
 Posted - 30 Sep 2007 : 23:03:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Skeptic
quote:
Originally posted by Crust
The later Drizzt novels can really be looked at critically. Is RAS saying something about his views of the world through Obould's orc nation? Could the events of the novel mirror events in the real world? These later books make the reader (well, me at least) look to their own world as much as Faerun... more so than other FR books, at least. It's these connections to the real world that could turn a book into a movie.
Well, the purpose of a story is usually to talk about "real-world" human issues.
Bah! The purpose of a story is entertainment. |
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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2007 : 23:07:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Bah! The purpose of a story is entertainment.
And same for gaming |
Edited by - Skeptic on 30 Sep 2007 23:07:43 |
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2007 : 04:21:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Bah! The purpose of a story is entertainment.
All hail the hamster! |
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Asgetrion
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1564 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2007 : 23:52:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Purple Dragon Knight
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Bah! The purpose of a story is entertainment.
All hail the hamster!
Hail Wooly -- the King over all Hamsterkind!    |
"What am I doing today? Ask me tomorrow - I can be sure of giving you the right answer then."
-- Askarran of Selgaunt, Master Sage, speaking to a curious merchant, Year of the Helm |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2007 : 03:11:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Crust
Could it be that dwarves, elves, and humans are simply unable to understand the mind and heart of the orc, and therefore ignorantly jump to the conclusion that orcs should be driven away and/or attacked on sight?
I think they understand that most of the time, orcs have their hearts and minds set on killing them and sacking their homes, not making friends with them. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2007 : 03:20:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by Crust
Could it be that dwarves, elves, and humans are simply unable to understand the mind and heart of the orc, and therefore ignorantly jump to the conclusion that orcs should be driven away and/or attacked on sight?
I think they understand that most of the time, orcs have their hearts and minds set on killing them and sacking their homes, not making friends with them.
I've said it before, but the orcs that sprung out of the Orcgate were evil and bloodthirsty, and were worshiping an orc pantheon of evil gods. These orcs weren't misunderstood or oppressed at this point.
The Everhorde that stormed out of the Spine of the World weren't provoked by the cities they eventually sacked and wiped off the face of Faerun. I don't remember anything in the history of Phalorm or other nations of the North that indicates that they went into the mountains to provoke the orcs.
Heck, even the orcs that (ironically) destroyed Gauntlgrym weren't, as far as we know, provoked by the humans there, other than by the humans having a city worth raiding (though this history may not survive this particular novel).
I'm not saying some orcs aren't capable of being good or neutral in outlook, nor am I saying that orcs may not be more warlike because they live in regions where resources are scarce, however, even this "reason" for their raiding doesn't mean that they have been oppressed or misunderstood.
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3563 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2007 : 03:35:38
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by Crust
Could it be that dwarves, elves, and humans are simply unable to understand the mind and heart of the orc, and therefore ignorantly jump to the conclusion that orcs should be driven away and/or attacked on sight?
I think they understand that most of the time, orcs have their hearts and minds set on killing them and sacking their homes, not making friends with them.
I've said it before, but the orcs that sprung out of the Orcgate were evil and bloodthirsty, and were worshiping an orc pantheon of evil gods. These orcs weren't misunderstood or oppressed at this point.
The Everhorde that stormed out of the Spine of the World weren't provoked by the cities they eventually sacked and wiped off the face of Faerun. I don't remember anything in the history of Phalorm or other nations of the North that indicates that they went into the mountains to provoke the orcs.
Heck, even the orcs that (ironically) destroyed Gauntlgrym weren't, as far as we know, provoked by the humans there, other than by the humans having a city worth raiding (though this history may not survive this particular novel).
I'm not saying some orcs aren't capable of being good or neutral in outlook, nor am I saying that orcs may not be more warlike because they live in regions where resources are scarce, however, even this "reason" for their raiding doesn't mean that they have been oppressed or misunderstood.
Aye! Never trust an Orc!! (Nothing like chaninging a quote to fit your needs) |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Talanfir Swiftfeet
Learned Scribe
Finland
143 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2007 : 11:03:48
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This just makes me think that WoTC saw how well liked the Warcraft Horde was and wanted to get in on the action. I'm not saying it's a bad idea. I like the idea of an (lawful neutral with lawful evil tendencies?) orc kingdom.
And about the fact that a civilisation can't develope in a 100 years, I'm thinking that when all the half-orcs around Sword Coast heard about a new orc kingdom they moved in and brought parts of human civilisation with them. Also there must have been some orc ex-slaves who were stone masons etc. who came also. And ofcourse the orcs have taken human experts as slaves. |
I am Talanfir Swiftfeet. (In)famous across the Swoardcoast as "Tal the Swift", Brandobaris´ seraph of mischief. If ye find yer shoelaces tied together while trying to catch a thief or meet a king who is angry because somebody switched the places of his chamberpot and his crown, ye can usually (try to) find me near.
If I had a halfling mother and a human father, would I be a half-halfling or a threequarterling? |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2007 : 12:25:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Talanfir Swiftfeet
This just makes me think that WoTC saw how well liked the Warcraft Horde was and wanted to get in on the action. I'm not saying it's a bad idea. I like the idea of an (lawful neutral with lawful evil tendencies?) orc kingdom.
And about the fact that a civilisation can't develope in a 100 years, I'm thinking that when all the half-orcs around Sword Coast heard about a new orc kingdom they moved in and brought parts of human civilisation with them. Also there must have been some orc ex-slaves who were stone masons etc. who came also. And ofcourse the orcs have taken human experts as slaves.
That's still a very small number, and it doesn't account for orcs overcoming their warlike tendencies to become farmers and grocers. |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3563 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2007 : 16:25:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Talanfir Swiftfeet
This just makes me think that WoTC saw how well liked the Warcraft Horde was and wanted to get in on the action. I'm not saying it's a bad idea. I like the idea of an (lawful neutral with lawful evil tendencies?) orc kingdom.
And about the fact that a civilisation can't develope in a 100 years, I'm thinking that when all the half-orcs around Sword Coast heard about a new orc kingdom they moved in and brought parts of human civilisation with them. Also there must have been some orc ex-slaves who were stone masons etc. who came also. And ofcourse the orcs have taken human experts as slaves.
That's still a very small number, and it doesn't account for orcs overcoming their warlike tendencies to become farmers and grocers.
It just feels forced upon us, that as well as I can say it.
It would like Obarsykrs becoming celibate within 100 years.....
no way in the 9 hells could it or would it happen.
I feel like the tribal, warlike, fierce orcs are at the pinnacle of their evoulution not the begining. I like them just as they are.
I wonder when the kobolds will carve out a kingdom just around the bend from Menzoberranzan?? Why not? Are they not as deserving of a Kingdom as Orcs?? |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4685 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2007 : 17:34:10
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Fron 2nd
quote:
Most lairs above ground are rude villages of wooden huts protected by a ditch, log rampart and log palisade, or more advanced constructions built by other races. The village will have 1-4 watch towers and a single gate. There will be one ballista and one catapult for every 100 adult male orcs.
Orcs are aggressive. They believe other species are inferior to them and that bullying and slavery is part of the natural order. They will cooperate with other species but are not dependable: as slaves, they will rebel against all but the most powerful masters; as allies they are quick to take offense and break agreements. Orcs believe that battle is the ideal challenge, but some leaders are pragmatic enough to recognize the value of peace, which they exact at a high price. If great patience and care are used, orc tribes can be effective trading partners and military allies.
Orcs value territory above all else; battle experience, wealth, and number of offspring are other major sources of pride. Orcs are patriarchal; women are fit only to bear children and nurse them. Orcs have a reputation for cruelty that is deserved, but humans are just as capable of evil as orcs. Orcs have marriage customs, but orc males are not noted for their faithfulness.
quote:
Orcs are carnivores, but prefer game meats or livestock to demihumans and humanoids.
quote:
Orcs are skilled miners.
They do have a civilization, though there are the down sides as well. Glorify warfare, take slaves and always want more land.
A transition to just hunting game and trading for livestock could be a first step, if they have enough mines. They also might hire out as merceneries espcially in a war against Elves or Draves. A code of honor is lacking, but within 50 years there could be a code of conduct that thy would tend to follow. However there are no rules in war is a code, however humans are famious for as well.
Perhaps in 75 years the females might even be given the job of farming, clearl the slaves could be pressed into this task. Orcs are meat eaters their slaves however often need a more balanced diet and it would be boring to raid for grain that an orc would not eat.
In present day (or at least 2nd, so prehaps a little in the past) weak orc tribes will pay tribute to a more powerful orc tribe if the tribes live that near to each other. This serves as a starting basics of borders for Bornies, Ductheries and so on of a Fuedal society with more or less defined borders. A unified Empire does not exist 100 years from now as indeed many want the king dead, however for reason of power no single tribe can take out the king's tribe (which is why assasination appears to be the plan) and so they openly obey the King's edicts (more or less *Grin*) but belong to a kingdom.
It is not imposible that the kingdom could stand with some agreed bounderies that are not to be crossed in war, but can be crossed for trade. Not that every orc, human, elf, etc. will always comply with.
In some ways the new Kingdom can exist under the MAD concept, allout war would kill most of both sides. I would expect within the Kingdom various orc tribes would attack other simalar sized tribes in hope to expand their teritory, the minor battles would not be a matter for the king, a Duke seeking to take out another Duke would require the Kings attention and way to do that is to have Dukes join together to prevent it. As each Duke would in effect control in a limited way many tribes it is in their interest not to allow one Duke to double the amount of tribes another Duke controls. The balance of power could maintain a kingdom and with a powerful and wise king clearly posible in 100 years.
The Kingdom will fall apart as soon as a weak, foolish or stupid king achieves the throne. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
Edited by - Kentinal on 08 Oct 2007 17:39:09 |
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Mournblade
Master of Realmslore
USA
1287 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2007 : 22:44:26
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I think it is absolutely crazy to philosophize on the ORC, GOBLIN, ETC.
They ARE the real monsters. They are not misunderstood humans they are MONSTERS. (Albeit I like Vraak). A Good orc should be RARE. They are the bestial races of brutality. D&D is a game of good versus evil.
That little goblin beat up in the Drizzt short story was beaten by an evil human. That does not make the goblin any less evil. I felt no remorse for the goblin, because well it was a goblin. One ofthe evil races. A monster race. A humanoid and not a human.
The demi human races embody something positive related to humans.
Dwarf: creativity and industry
Elf: Wonder and beauty, myth
Hobbit: Home and adventure
The Humanoid races embody that which is negative:
Orcs: Brutality
Goblins: Avarice
Kobolds: Cowardice
The short story about the pathetic goblin, and writing about the 'good' orcs, is pure and simple Hollywood.
Humanoids are in D&D as the evil one must fight. They are not a misunderstood human kingdom.
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A wizard is Never late Frodo Baggins. Nor is he Early. A wizard arrives precisely when he means to... |
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1419 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2007 : 18:52:06
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I think that, even in Faerun, the situation with Orcs and Elves are that they are pretty much "Naturally Evil" and "Naturally Good" solely by virtue of their pantheons. In the Forgotten Realms, especially in the little corner that R.A. Salvatore calls his own, it's the fact that all races have complete freedom to choose their own destinies. It's only that Orc culture is dominated by Gruumsh and that the Dark Elves are dominated by Lolth that say otherwise.
Look at it from the fact that we have huge hordes of evil elves, including an evil Elven Secret Society that wants to exterminate all humans. There's nothing really keeping Orcs from moving to Neutral Evil or Chaotic Neutral without disturbing their gods religion. Obould was the Chosen of Gruumsh and clearly he wanted to build a civilization (why? He's a Chaotic Evil God).
I wouldn't be surprised if the Orcs of Obouldland operate with a heavy slave system or perhaps have been using beaten down orcs to maintain a functional feudal system. With the influence of Alustriel or the Orc Gods, there's no end of changes that can be brought about. Let's face it, the depiction of Orcs as a Hunter/Gatherer society is inaccurate.
They love meat but they grow their fungus and so on to sustain themselves when not raiding. |
My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
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Lady Fellshot
Senior Scribe
USA
379 Posts |
Posted - 06 Oct 2007 : 01:31:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
I wouldn't be surprised if the Orcs of Obouldland operate with a heavy slave system or perhaps have been using beaten down orcs to maintain a functional feudal system. With the influence of Alustriel or the Orc Gods, there's no end of changes that can be brought about. Let's face it, the depiction of Orcs as a Hunter/Gatherer society is inaccurate.
They love meat but they grow their fungus and so on to sustain themselves when not raiding.
I hate to disagree with you, but I think you might be confusing society with a system of production. I was under the impression that for the most part, orcs were a tribal society. A tribal society could be hunter/gatherer, but could just as easily be farming or herding. But I would not jump to the assumption that the next leap in orc civilization is fuedalism where there are other options and possibilies. Who knows, maybe orcs go communist. It seems to work for Mongolia. *shrugs*
I just think that to assume that orcs would suddenly jump to fuedalism is a little eurocentric. But I could be totally off. And I'm sure that me preferring orcs as a tribal people has something to do with it as well. |
Rants and reviews that interest no one may be found here. |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4685 Posts |
Posted - 06 Oct 2007 : 02:19:35
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| Fuedalism clearly is one posible model, as other models offered have been rejected to take place within 100 years. I offered other ideas that appear posible for holding a kingdom together. I did not however see a tribal confederation having a good chance of holding together. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1419 Posts |
Posted - 06 Oct 2007 : 02:48:44
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Yeah, it seems that whatever happened backfired on Gruumsh because the Old Religion has seriously died down. It's difficult to imagine all the orcs abandoning Gruumsh but they did.
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My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
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Arkhaedun
Senior Scribe
869 Posts |
Posted - 06 Oct 2007 : 05:17:28
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I just cleared about a few posts that got off topic and onto a discussion of real world religions. This is against the CoC, so lets be careful to not go too far afield and try to be sensitive of the beliefs of others, and to stay focused on discussing the Realms.
Thanks all. |
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Damon33
Acolyte
14 Posts |
Posted - 08 Oct 2007 : 00:31:22
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I havent been here in a long time so forgive me on that. I did a review of The Orc King recently though http://www.fantasybookspot.com/node/2074. I dont think I really liked the peak into the future personally. I like the fact that the Orc Kingdom opens up a ton of new possibities (Orc Hero novels??) but why did we have to hear about it before it happened?
From a Realm standpoint though I think it is a great idea. Constant conflict from rogue factions, the thought above about maybe some real novels about the orcs, and we dont even know how it will factor in with the Spellplague so far. Good idea, poor delivery. Thats not to say I didnt enjoy the book because I did, and who knows if this was a WOTC push or Salvatore push on the prologue epilogue.
Also was not early man maybe as savage as the orcs? We cant be sure about that, but I dont see this as totally out of character that they orcs would evolve. They do hold some intelligence. |
Book Reviews
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Edited by - Damon33 on 08 Oct 2007 00:34:29 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 08 Oct 2007 : 01:15:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Damon33
Also was not early man maybe as savage as the orcs? We cant be sure about that, but I dont see this as totally out of character that they orcs would evolve. They do hold some intelligence.
I've never argued that. I just can't buy that in 100 years, they go from the horde mentality of "kill and pillage anyone weaker, including other orcs" to "farm, trade, be an okay neighbor, and otherwise act civilized". |
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1419 Posts |
Posted - 08 Oct 2007 : 03:04:25
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quote:
I've never argued that. I just can't buy that in 100 years, they go from the horde mentality of "kill and pillage anyone weaker, including other orcs" to "farm, trade, be an okay neighbor, and otherwise act civilized".
It's the Realms. It's magic.
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My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 08 Oct 2007 : 03:36:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
quote:
I've never argued that. I just can't buy that in 100 years, they go from the horde mentality of "kill and pillage anyone weaker, including other orcs" to "farm, trade, be an okay neighbor, and otherwise act civilized".
It's the Realms. It's magic.
I truly hope you're being flip, because that kind of explanation will make me dislike the idea even more. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1419 Posts |
Posted - 08 Oct 2007 : 03:52:43
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quote:
It's the Realms. It's magic.
I'm just basically saying that the Realms is not something that can be judged by normal standards of behavior. We're dealing with a non-human race that is surrounded by magical Empires of Silverymoon and with Better than Modern Day Healthcare thanks to clericism.
Also, Orcs aren't tribal but Clanish. There's a slight difference. Orcs have metal working, smiths, and armor rather than stone age hunting skills. They're actually far more 'civilized' than you might think. It's just they're routinely impoverished. 100 years is 5 generations. For orcs, it's more like 7 1/2 generations.
Compared to the Icewind Dale Tundra Tribes, Orcs are much more likely to be civilized. |
My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
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Edited by - Charles Phipps on 08 Oct 2007 03:54:49 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 08 Oct 2007 : 04:56:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
Also, Orcs aren't tribal but Clanish. There's a slight difference. Orcs have metal working, smiths, and armor rather than stone age hunting skills. They're actually far more 'civilized' than you might think. It's just they're routinely impoverished. 100 years is 5 generations. For orcs, it's more like 7 1/2 generations.
I'd say that 100 years might be 4 generations of orcs, maybe 5 -- certainly not 7.5. Also, knowing how to work metal does not imply civilization. It's a skill. It's certainly more commonly found among civilized races, but just because they know how to do it, it doesn't mean they act civilized. And there's no indication that orcs developed this skill themselves -- I find it far more likely to think they learned it from some other race; most likely from enslaved smiths.
Orcs have not, in recent memory, shown any signs of civilization beyond a tribal level. And they've shown little desire to advance past that level. So, I don't care who their neighbors are, and I don't care if they have magical healing. If these things weren't a factor in the past (as they obviously weren't, or we'd not be having this discussion), then they aren't a factor now.
Therefore, I stand by my statement: orc civilization going from raiding tribes and hordes to a stable kingdom in 100 years is simply implausible.
quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
Compared to the Icewind Dale Tundra Tribes, Orcs are much more likely to be civilized.
Apples and oranges. The barbarians of the Dales may eschew civilization, but they are part of a civilized race. They can easily adapt to civilization, especially since they hail from and are kin to civilized peoples. They are a lot more civilized than orcs, even if there are some few similarities in their lifestyles. |
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1419 Posts |
Posted - 08 Oct 2007 : 05:26:01
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I'd say that 100 years might be 4 generations of orcs, maybe 5 -- certainly not 7.5.
I thought Orcs lived slightly less than Humans.
Also, knowing how to work metal does not imply civilization. It's a skill. It's certainly more commonly found among civilized races, but just because they know how to do it, it doesn't mean they act civilized. And there's no indication that orcs developed this skill themselves -- I find it far more likely to think they learned it from some other race; most likely from enslaved smiths.
Dude, Orcs aren't stupid by any stretch of the imagination. They just follow a God that believes that they should kill every living thing on the planet but fellow Orcs. They arrived from the Orcgate wars presumably from a planet that they either originated from or had conquered. Given they nearly trounced Thay and Mulhorand, I'm pretty likely sure they have their own skills.
Also given their war mounts, Orcs also no doubt practice animal husbandry and some degree of engineering to carve out their caves. They practice widespread slavery because they're a warrior culture like the Spartans (real life ones not the 300 kind) and disdain any labor but war, that doesn't mean they're incapable of it.
Orcs have not, in recent memory, shown any signs of civilization beyond a tribal level. And they've shown little desire to advance past that level. So, I don't care who their neighbors are, and I don't care if they have magical healing. If these things weren't a factor in the past (as they obviously weren't, or we'd not be having this discussion), then they aren't a factor now.
Actually, not all Orcs are Tribal anymore than humans are Tribal. I point out that the Orcs of Zhentil Keep are an organized soldiery force that operates in the same manner as Hobgoblins for the most part.
We also have evidence of Orc Kingdoms in the past in Faerun.
Apples and oranges. The barbarians of the Dales may eschew civilization, but they are part of a civilized race. They can easily adapt to civilization, especially since they hail from and are kin to civilized peoples. They are a lot more civilized than orcs, even if there are some few similarities in their lifestyles.
We're now getting into "Drow kill their twins in the womb" territory here where fantasy flavor goes against the idea they're just another race. R.A. Salvatore certainly believes Orcs are just another species by the way he's portraying them. I confess, Wooley, I tend to use Orcs as embodiments of evil myself.
Therefore, I stand by my statement: orc civilization going from raiding tribes and hordes to a stable kingdom in 100 years is simply implausible.
Oh, I don't disagree that it's highly unlikely we'd go from "Obould tosses his Ho' off the side of a cliff" to "tenderly caressing his child's cheek" in just a few generations of time in gender relations alone. Also, Gruumsh is abandoned (?!)
I mean seriously, what's described is like if the entire Orc population of Many Arrows converted to Lathanderism. |
My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
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Xysma
Master of Realmslore
USA
1089 Posts |
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1419 Posts |
Posted - 08 Oct 2007 : 16:42:07
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True but Obould VI is also probably middle aged.
So there could be a sixth generation newly born and perhaps even Orc cubs.
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My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
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Edited by - Charles Phipps on 08 Oct 2007 16:42:31 |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4685 Posts |
Posted - 08 Oct 2007 : 16:50:42
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In 2nd Orcs lived to about 40, In thrid they can live to about 80.
However that is not generally defines a generation, what does is fertility or mating patterns. IOW when a female reaches adulthood and bears children.
A human female reaches adulthood in 3.5 at age 15, the half orc at age 14, by interpolation an orc female achieves aduthood at age 14. Thus an orc generation should be a little shorter then a human generation.
As for Obould VI there are a few posible answer to get more then 5 generations. It might be all the Kings were named Obould, that 6 is just the sixth king to have that name. Even if all Kings took the name Obould it is posible one or more kings mated later then sooner. That infact one or more Kings had a son when in their 30s (prehaps a generation and a half).
As for tribal or clanish, not sure it makes much a difference. Both tend to trace blood, both can take outsiders into the group. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
Edited by - Kentinal on 08 Oct 2007 17:52:32 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 08 Oct 2007 : 17:24:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Xysma
quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
I'd say that 100 years might be 4 generations of orcs, maybe 5 -- certainly not 7.5.
I thought Orcs lived slightly less than Humans.
I think you are correct, but the Obould in the "future story" is King Obould VI, so that's five generations since Obould I.
Five generations of Oboulds -- not necessarily five generations of the general orc populace. |
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1419 Posts |
Posted - 08 Oct 2007 : 17:44:29
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quote:
Five generations of Oboulds -- not necessarily five generations of the general orc populace.
Which could be significantly more given Obould I was Chosen of Gruumsy.
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My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
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The Orc King prologue discussion (SPOILERS)
