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Originally posted by Sian

wasn't it something about that Malar wanted to get it and Jergal then threw him a curveball playing Knucklebones with the 'triad' while Malar was out running?

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Originally posted by George Krashos

There is yet more to be revealed of the Three.

-- George Krashos

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In ages past there was but one god of strife, death, and the dead, and he was known as Jergal, Lord of the End of Everything. Jergal fomented and fed on the discord among mortals and powers alike. When beings slew each other in their quest for power or in their hatred, he welcomed them into his shadowy kingdom of eternal gloom. As all things died, everything came to him eventually, and over time he built his power into a kingdom unchallenged by any other god. Eventually, however, he grew tired of his duties for he knew them too well.

Without challenge there is nothing, and in nothingness there is only gloom. In such a state, the difference between absolute power and absolute powerlessness is undetectable. During this dark era, there arose three powerful mortals - Bane, Bhaal, and Myrkul - who lusted after the power Jergal wielded. The trio forged an unholy pact, agreeing that they would dare to seek such ultimate power or die in the attempt. Over the length and breadth of the Realms they strode, seeking powerful magic and spells and defying death at every turn. No matter what monster they confronted or what spells they braved, the three mortals emerged unscathed at every turn. Eventually the trio destroyed one of the Seven Lost Gods, and they each seized a portion of his divine essence for themselves. The trio then journeyed into the Gray Waste and sought out the Castle of Bone.

Through armies of skeletons, legions of zombies, hordes or noncorporeal undead, and a gauntlet of liches they battled. Eventually they reached the object of their lifelong quest - the Bone Throne. "I claim this throne of evil," shouted Bane the tyrant. ''I'll destroy you before you can raise a finger," threatened Bhaal the assassin. ''And I shall imprison your essence for eternity," promised Myrkul the necromancer. Jergal arose from his throne with a weary expression and said, "The Throne is yours. I have grown weary of this empty power. Take it if you wish - I promise to serve and guide you as your seneschal until you grow comfortable with the position."

Before the stunned trio could react, the Lord of the Dead continued, "who among you shall rule?" The trio immediately fell to fighting amongst themselves while Jergal looked on with indifference. When eventually it appeared that either they would all die of exhaustion or battle on for an eternity, the Lord of the End of Everything intervened. "After all you have sacrificed, would you come away with nothing? Why don't you divide the portfolios of the office and engage in a game of skill for them?" asked Jergal. Bane, Bhaal, and Myrkul considered the god's offer and agreed. Jergal took the heads of his three most powerful liches and gave them to the trio that they would compete by bowling the skulls. Each mortal rolled a skull across the Gray Waste, having agreed that the winner would be he who bowled the farthest.

Malar the Beastlord arrived to visit Jergal at this moment. After quickly ascertaining that the winner of the contest would get all of Jergal's power, he chased off after the three skulls to make sure that the contest would be halted until he had a chance to participate for part of the prize. Bane, Bhaal, and Myrkul again fell to fighting, as it was obvious their sport was ruined, and again Jergal intervened. "Why don't you allow Lady Luck to decide so you don't have to share with the Beast?"

The trio agreed, and Jergal broke off his skeletal finger bones and gave them to the players. When Malar returned form chasing the skulls, he found that the trio had just finished a game of knucklebones. Bane cried out triumphantly, "As winner, I choose to rule for all eternity as the ultimate tyrant. I can induce hatred and strife at my whim, and all will bow down before me while in my kingdom." Myrkul, who had won second place, declared, "But I choose the dead, and by doing so I truly win, because all you are lord over, Bane, will eventually be mine. All things must die - even gods."

Bhaal, who finished third, demurred, "I choose death, and it is by my hand that all that you rule Lord Bane will eventually pass to Lord Myrkul. Both of you must pay honor to me and obey my wishes, since I can destroy your kingdom Bane, by murdering your subjects, and I can starve your kingdom, Myrkul by staying my hand." Malar growled in frustration, but could do nothing, and yet again only the beasts were left for him. And Jergal merely smiled, for he had been delivered.

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Originally posted by George Krashos

There is yet more to be revealed of the Three.

-- George Krashos

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Originally posted by The Sage

Actually, it is canon, since it's pretty much taken, word for word, from the reference Wooly noted back in April '07 -- from pg. 37 of Faiths & Avatars.

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Originally posted by Jorkens

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Originally posted by The Sage

Actually, it is canon, since it's pretty much taken, word for word, from the reference Wooly noted back in April '07 -- from pg. 37 of Faiths & Avatars.

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But isn't the information put in story form in a sidebar? I always took those to be more or less mythological tales more than the definite truth about what happened.

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Originally posted by Wenin

I can't find anything in the original GHotR about their rise.

It is kinda annoying that nothing is written about these three as mortals. That would be an awesome story.

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Ingo Djan
DUNGEON MASTER AO OF THE DIAMONDS!

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Originally posted by The Sage

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Originally posted by Jorkens

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Originally posted by The Sage

Actually, it is canon, since it's pretty much taken, word for word, from the reference Wooly noted back in April '07 -- from pg. 37 of Faiths & Avatars.

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But isn't the information put in story form in a sidebar? I always took those to be more or less mythological tales more than the definite truth about what happened.

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Yes, it does feature in a side-bar entry. But I meant "canon" in terms of information from an official Realms source, rather than just something made-up for the Baldur's Gate CRPG.

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Originally posted by Sandro

On the subject of those sidebars, there's another one I noticed while flickiong through Faiths and Avatars earlier today, on page 159 -- the Valley of the Gods. Does anyone know if this is just a red herring, or is it actually on to something?

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Originally posted by Gray Richardson

I think the timeline works. Here's how: Eric Boyd had said the trifold sun portfolio of dawn, day and dusk rotates in cycles, where one is always ascendant, another waning, and the 3rd has set, hidden "below the horizon" so to speak. For a brief while, when a portfolio sets, the remaining god is at his zenith, before the next god arises and the previously ascending god begins to wane.

I think Eric described it as looking at a rotating 4 sided die edge on, where you can see at most two faces, but never 3, with one face getting bigger as it rotates towards you and the other shrinking as it rotates away, then for a moment all you can see is one face as the receding face moves behind and then the hidden face rotates into view.

It is important to note that at the end of each cycle the bearer of the portfolio always "sets"--either dies or transforms into the new version. This is unavoidable.

Okay, so I think Jergal saw the writing on the wall; he saw that Amaunator was waning and Jergal was about to peak, and although it is hinted that Jergal was bored or suffering from ennui, my theory is rather that he was simply afraid; Jergal didn't want to exit gracefully when his dusk portfolio's time came around.

So Jergal "opted out"; he played hot potato or "tag, your it!" with the Dusk portfolio by gifting it to Myrkul. Like in "The Ring" where you can avoid your death by getting someone else to watch the video tape.

Grand History of the Realms indicates that Jergal surrendered his portfolio circa the Year of Boiling Moats in -359 DR, about 20 years before the Fall of Netheril. By doing so, he ensured that Myrkul would have the portfolio and ascend to the zenith of Dusk in the place of Jergal. Arguably, the Fall of Netheril WAS the height of Dusk and the setting of Amaunator's Day.

Not sure how long Dusk was at its zenith, but certainly the subsequent Fall of Jhaamdath was part of that period. Myrkul got to see the sun set on 2 fantastically powerful civilizations, and the collapse of civilization that led to the Chondathan diaspora, not to mention anarchic successor states that needed the Procession of Justice led by Tyr to restore order to a devastated land. That is some major dusk if you ask me! I think it safe to say that Dusk was in full bloom from around -339 DR at the Fall of Netheril, until around -238 DR when Tyr's Procession of Justice starts to clean things up and pacify Southern Faerûn.

But when did Lathander come along? We know Lathander was revered in Athalantar which was founded in 183 DR. He might have been around for awhile prior to that, but we know he couldn't have appeared much later. We don't know when Amaunator died, but seems like the Fall of Netheril was his likely demise, mythologically speaking. In Faiths & Avatars, I believe, it says something to the effect that Amaunator lingered for almost exactly 1000 years after the fall, before he died from lack of worship, which doesn't quite make sense, since Lathander was on the scene. But we could surmise that it was 1000 years before he was forgotten and his body turned up in the Astral Plane, but he really died for all intents and purposes in the Year of Sundered Webs.

Or alternatively we could postulate some sort of time-zone metaphor, where even though the sun is set in New York, it is still afternoon in California, such that Lathander had "risen" in the Heartlands, but his worship had not traveled North yet to the geographic sphere where Netheril had been to supplant the dwindling faith in Amaunator until some centuries later.

But the way it all shakes out, it seems pretty clear that Jergal dodged a bullet. All he had to do was lay low for awhile. Now that Lathander has left the building and Amaunator is back, Jergal is free to reclaim the dusk portfolio (which I think may still lie within the Crown of Horns with the remaining essence of Myrkul.) Or maybe Jergal really is done with all that. But that leaves Myrkul free to make a comeback, or some new guy, perhaps Cyric, or Kelemvor to try and take up the Dusk mantle.

But if you look at it in this way, the timeline still tracks very well.

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Originally posted by The Hooded One

Gray, you're very close to some of Ed's root (and NDA) lore on Jergal.
Bwoohahahaha, and so forth.
love,
THO

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Originally posted by capnvan

Worth thinking about?

Nergal, the Babylonian god, whose name is uncomfortably close to Jergal, obviously, held power over death/ the underworld, but also aspects of the sun, notably the high sun which would kill. More like At'ar the Merciless, which, from FR13, we know is a female aspect of Aumanator.

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Originally posted by Markustay
Oh, and for whatever it is worth, for some reason (before the 3e 'Orcish' depiction of him), I had always mentally used the picture of the Finnish God Hiisi (from the 1e DD) when I was imagining what Bane was like. Not saying there is any connection there, but that picture just screams 'Bane' to me.

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Originally posted by Wenin

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Originally posted by Markustay
Oh, and for whatever it is worth, for some reason (before the 3e 'Orcish' depiction of him), I had always mentally used the picture of the Finnish God Hiisi (from the 1e DD) when I was imagining what Bane was like. Not saying there is any connection there, but that picture just screams 'Bane' to me.

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http://cs.joensuu.fi/~thlaine/research/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/hiisi.jpg

That Hiisi?

I always pictured an armor clad black evil tyrant looking guy.

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Originally posted by Wenin

That Hiisi?

I always pictured an armor clad black evil tyrant looking guy.

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Originally posted by Jakk

Mark, how do you think Gray Richardson's thoughts on Jergal fit in with your speculations?
Any ideas?

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