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lokilokust
Seeker
USA
61 Posts |
 Posted - 20 Apr 2007 : 04:14:07
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| i am interested in checking out their new 'pathfinder' mag, and seeing if it's easily convertible to the realms. |
yrs. in exile,
-s.j. bagley |
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Chosen of Bane
Senior Scribe
USA
552 Posts |
Posted - 20 Apr 2007 : 04:40:51
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Does anyone know if the Savage Tide adventure path will finished before they discontinue the magazine?
In the game I play in we ran through Shackled City, we're just over half-way through Age of Worms, and we're hoping to run Savage Tide next.
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 20 Apr 2007 : 04:45:59
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| Yes, the very last issue of Dungeon will have the final adventures of the Savage Tide Adventure Path in it. |
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Xysma
Master of Realmslore
USA
1089 Posts |
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Archwizard
Learned Scribe
USA
266 Posts |
Posted - 20 Apr 2007 : 05:04:53
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I unfortunately renewed my Dragon subscription two days ago.  I only started subscribing within the last year because I heard FR material would be in every issue. The transition refunds are little consolation for the loss of the magazine, but at least Paizo is being flexible with the loose change. |
Edited by - Archwizard on 20 Apr 2007 05:07:36 |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 20 Apr 2007 : 05:07:51
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| I'm using mine to download as many PDFs from Paizo as I can that I still don't have . . . |
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Dhomal
Senior Scribe
USA
565 Posts |
Posted - 20 Apr 2007 : 05:46:50
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Hello-
Well - i was tired this Am - and got up late - so i did not see this until just now.
As Kuje said - its like a dear, old friend has died.
I have been buying Dragon RELIGIOUSLY since issue 83 (The first of the marvelous 'chessboard' covers) and promptly went back to fill in as many holes as possible back from there.
IIRC, I am missing less than 2 dozen issues. I will do my best to finish off my collection too - just to honor the memory.
As for Dungeon - I must admit to not having run a Single adventure from them - but I have them all (or pretty darn close!).
I too hope the online content will be good. As it is now - I print out almost everything from WOTC's site that I think I may want - so I guess I'm glad I bought a bunch of binders last summer at garage/church sales!
And - is it just me - or is it silly not to have One More issue of dragon to get it to 360 - a perfect circle. I think they should put out one more....
I had hoped my 500th post would be more fun and light-hearted. :(
Dhomal |
I am collecting the D&D Minis. I would be more than willing to trade with people. You can send me a PM here with your email listed - and I can send you my minis list. Thanks!
Successfully traded with Xysma! |
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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
Posted - 20 Apr 2007 : 08:31:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Kaewin
I'm sorry didn't really mean to put in two places, just wanted to get the word out. I have been reading this mag on and off for 24 yrs. Its been there for all edtions so it seems li9ke its part of D&D, almost a sacred cow.
Well, if it is a sacred cow, then WOTC is obviously not staffed by Hindus. |
If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
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Zanan
Senior Scribe
Germany
942 Posts |
Posted - 20 Apr 2007 : 10:05:08
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On a sidenote ... to all overseas readers (who have internet access), this online version (we have no clue about the outlook as yet, have we?) eases the problem of a) getting the issues and b ) paying over the odds for them.
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Cave quid dicis, quando et cui!
Gæð a wyrd swa hio scel!
In memory of Alura Durshavin.
Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faerûn, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more. |
Edited by - Zanan on 20 Apr 2007 10:07:37 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 20 Apr 2007 : 10:37:56
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That's actually a good point Zanan -- I know I've missed a couple of issues in shipment since I restarted my subscription just before Ed's first "Cities" article. It's been a pain trying to organise replacement issues...
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Bladewind
Master of Realmslore
Netherlands
1280 Posts |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 20 Apr 2007 : 11:37:03
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| Well, this is unexpected. I have not had much interest in Dragon since the 90's myself, but I did not see this coming. One more element of the old game goes away. Sad really that these magazines, with the role they have played in the game should die away over business moves whilst still going strong. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 20 Apr 2007 : 12:35:15
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| A major concern with me over this announcement (which I feel was prompted by the bean-counters, more than anything else) is the spotty track record Wizards has with their website. The Wizards site is renowned for having one of the worst search engines ever conceived, and they've had issues with giving us the free content. There are the web enhancements that are floating in limbo, broken links from when they rearranged everything, and there have been multiple times that newly posted articles either aren't available at all, or they are available but the download link is broken. Moving to an online-only format when they've got such a spotty record already is quite worrisome. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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BlackAce
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
358 Posts |
Posted - 20 Apr 2007 : 12:48:03
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Pooh.
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by lokilokust
of course they conveniently wait until i subscribe to both magazines to announce this.
Fortunately, I prevented that very occurence on the CBT Forums, where I know there are plenty of subscribers to both DRAGON and DUNGEON. Most of those who commented have subscriptions which end in August, so they've largely been saved.
Yes, thanks for that, Sage. |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6647 Posts |
Posted - 20 Apr 2007 : 13:46:13
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Bugger.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Daviot
Senior Scribe
USA
372 Posts |
Posted - 20 Apr 2007 : 13:49:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
A major concern with me over this announcement (which I feel was prompted by the bean-counters, more than anything else) is the spotty track record Wizards has with their website. The Wizards site is renowned for having one of the worst search engines ever conceived, and they've had issues with giving us the free content. There are the web enhancements that are floating in limbo, broken links from when they rearranged everything, and there have been multiple times that newly posted articles either aren't available at all, or they are available but the download link is broken. Moving to an online-only format when they've got such a spotty record already is quite worrisome.
Wooly's got quite a valid point, as it requires a flat-out Search Check to find what you happen to be looking for on the Wizards site, even if you tracked down whatever article a few weeks before. Add to this that I was seriously considering subscribing starting next month, and well...there goes that plan. >_<; |
One usually has far more to fear from the soft-spoken wizard with a blade and well-worn boots than from the boisterous one in the ivory tower.
My Tabletop Writing CV. |
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lokilokust
Seeker
USA
61 Posts |
Posted - 20 Apr 2007 : 14:03:20
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wooly,
well said.
i'm worried about the same things.
i'm also worried that, even if their new online package isn't more terrible than a pile of dead baby otters, they might lose a lot of talented writers who focus on the realms and eberron.
without having those two mags to write for, i can see quite a few writers simply not bothering to submit. |
yrs. in exile,
-s.j. bagley |
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Halidan
Senior Scribe
USA
470 Posts |
Posted - 20 Apr 2007 : 14:15:33
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Wow....what a kick in the teeth. I've bought TSR magazines since the Strategic Review days (Dragon's predecessor) and subscribed to Dungeon from the start. It really hurts to see them go the way of Steve Jackson's Pyramid magazine. I stopped getting that publication after about four or five on-line issues, because it just didn't feel the same as the old print version.
I'll give the on-line publication a chance, but it better knock my socks off. |
"Over the Mountains
Of the Moon
Down the Valley of the Shadow,
Ride, boldly ride,"
The shade replied,
"If you seek for Eldorado!"
Edgar Allen Poe - 1849 |
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Kiaransalyn
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
762 Posts |
Posted - 20 Apr 2007 : 14:20:14
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That's a surprise.
Personally, it doesn't sadden me too much since I had to give up the bulk of my Dragons when I moved to The Netherlands and I didn't renew my subscription this year. However, I can imagine what it feels like for those of you who look forward to the Dragon time of month.
With my work I have one or two trade magazines that are online but they take some getting used to and (perhaps rather obviously) they don't feel the same. |
Death is Life
Love is Hate
Revenge is Forgiveness
Ken: You from the States?
Jimmy: Yeah. But don't hold it against me.
Ken: I'll try not to... Just try not to say anything too loud or crass. |
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lokilokust
Seeker
USA
61 Posts |
Posted - 20 Apr 2007 : 14:29:22
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it also strikes me that this is pretty much the final nail in the coffin for gaming magazines.
the only thing left is games workshop's monthly mail order catalogue. |
yrs. in exile,
-s.j. bagley |
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Bakra
Senior Scribe
628 Posts |
Posted - 20 Apr 2007 : 14:52:03
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My apology to Wooly and the others for the multi-post, and thanks to the Big Hamster for the redirect. I am just in shock about the whole thing. I work for an institution which subscribes to many periodicals online. The one thing I can tell everyone, when my work place cancels a subscription they loose everything. It doesn’t matter if they have been signed up for a few years.
There are no back issues to pick up and reread. For anyone who will subscribe to the new Dungeon & Dragon magazine; please make a back up copy for yourself. I know some scribes will print a copy off while others will burn it to whatever the new data storage device is available at the current time.
Farewell Dragon.
And hello Dragon.
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I hope Candlekeep continues to be the friendly forum of fellow Realms-lovers that it has always been, as we all go through this together. If you don’t want to move to the “new” Realms, that doesn’t mean there’s anything wrong with either you or the “old” Realms. Goodness knows Candlekeep, and the hearts of its scribes, are both big enough to accommodate both. If we want them to be.
(Strikes dramatic pose, raises sword to gleam in the sunset, and hopes breeches won’t fall down.)
Enough for now. The Realms lives! I have spoken! Ale and light wines half price, served by a smiling Storm Silverhand fetchingly clad in thigh-high boots and naught else! Ahem . .
So saith Ed. <snip>
love to all,
THO
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Varl
Learned Scribe
USA
284 Posts |
Posted - 20 Apr 2007 : 15:30:14
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Heh. I'm imagining 3 people that work in print shops that also subscribe to Dragon and Dungeon (assuming it goes online and is printable) that are thrilled about this decision.
What a tragedy for gamers and for new people that might be entering the game by eyeing a Dragon or Dungeon magazine on the shelf. Worst Business Move of the Year.   |
I'm on a permanent vacation to the soul. -Tash Sultana |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 20 Apr 2007 : 15:45:30
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| To give some more old D&D related sad news, I just saw that Tom Moldvay has passed away recently. A sad day. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 20 Apr 2007 : 16:26:01
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quote:
Originally posted by BlackAce
Pooh.
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by lokilokust
of course they conveniently wait until i subscribe to both magazines to announce this.
Fortunately, I prevented that very occurence on the CBT Forums, where I know there are plenty of subscribers to both DRAGON and DUNGEON. Most of those who commented have subscriptions which end in August, so they've largely been saved.
Yes, thanks for that, Sage.
You're welcome.
I assumed you'd either hear it at CBT or through the HMP Forums... Wooly's work most likely.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Alaundo
Head Moderator
United Kingdom
5692 Posts |
Posted - 20 Apr 2007 : 17:39:32
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Bugger.
-- George Krashos
 Well after feeling very gutted about this news and reading this thread and some of the glum comments on Paizo's thread, George's simple response has made me laugh out loud and brought a smile to my face at last 
Nevertheless, I still can't get over this news. For those who haven't followed Dragon for some time, the issues have certainly improved and FR content had become a regular occurance.
Aye, my only gaming magazine fix now will be White Dwarf |
Alaundo
Candlekeep Forums Head Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
An Introduction to Candlekeep - by Ed Greenwood
The Candlekeep Compendium - Tomes of Realmslore penned by Scribes of Candlekeep
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 20 Apr 2007 : 18:47:26
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by BlackAce
Pooh.
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by lokilokust
of course they conveniently wait until i subscribe to both magazines to announce this.
Fortunately, I prevented that very occurence on the CBT Forums, where I know there are plenty of subscribers to both DRAGON and DUNGEON. Most of those who commented have subscriptions which end in August, so they've largely been saved.
Yes, thanks for that, Sage.
You're welcome.
I assumed you'd either hear it at CBT or through the HMP Forums... Wooly's work most likely.
Actually, I just now posted it over on HMP... That's the only other forum I'm active on. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Xysma
Master of Realmslore
USA
1089 Posts |
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Zanan
Senior Scribe
Germany
942 Posts |
Posted - 20 Apr 2007 : 21:35:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Xysma
When I went to bed last night, I was apparently so distraught that my wife asked me what was wrong. She's not a gamer, but she could appreciate how sad it is for something like Dragon to go away. I still feel sick, empty, and helpless everytime I think about it. I just can't help but wonder who the hell is WotC listening to when they make these god-awful decisions?
See, that is nearly how I felt and feel about the whole WotSQ / Lady Penitent affair. You spent half a gamers life collecting all the stuff, all is neatly set and then a 4 year novel series turns life on its head. After that's somewhat settled ... you don't get a rest. Another trilogy with events even "worse" than the previous series comes round the corner and keeps you at the edge for another couple of years. (Alas, Lisa is writing some brilliant stuff!) |
Cave quid dicis, quando et cui!
Gæð a wyrd swa hio scel!
In memory of Alura Durshavin.
Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faerûn, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more. |
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MaxKaladin
Seeker
77 Posts |
Posted - 20 Apr 2007 : 21:41:06
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I imagine they're listening to marketing people who think their new online thing will do better if there is no Dragon or Dungeon around as competition.
It will be interesting to see what KenzerCo does. The Knights of the Dinner Table "comic book" has been about half gaming magazine for years now. Perhaps they'll expand on that.
RIP Dragon |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11701 Posts |
Posted - 20 Apr 2007 : 21:56:22
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Agghhh, I've been reading dragon for 20 years now. I'll miss it. I'll miss Dungeon even more, as most of my adventures came from it (modified mind you, but they came from it).
My coworkers and I were talking about this over lunch. I could be seeing it all wrong (and I could be taking some extreme leaps of thought), but see if this makes sense. TSR tanks in 2000 and is pulled out of their issues by WotC. WotC wants to see Dragon and Dungeon live, but doesn't want to have to fund it. So Paizo comes out around the time of 3E (trying to think back of which came first). 3E takes off like a rocket. People can't get enough of prestige classes and new feats and new spells and new items. Third party people are trying to make their dents with modules and add-ons, but wizards material that they put out is better tested and less likely to be broken. Third party materials sell, but eventually people like myself return to the folds of buying pretty much only WotC material.
Now, people are tired of new prestige classes, new feats, yet another blast spell, and overpowered items that would cost so much that no sane DM would give them to their party. They instead try developing new classes entirely, but some of those are so whack job'd that people begin wondering what's up with WotC. So, now its time to take a stab at making modules again.
Meanwhile, people see Dragon mag (now a third party) as the de facto rules kings of D&D, and many don't ever (or hardly ever) buy modules because they get modules that are just as good from Dungeon. People with the ideas for new concepts in the game aren't sending them to WotC. They're sending them to Dragon Magazine. People with a good idea for a module aren't sending them to WotC, they're sending them to Dungeon Magazine.
So, WotC decides that the best thing to do would be to shut down Dungeon Magazine so that they don't have as much competition for their own modules. Also, they can take over as the rules kings again by handling the player's questions, taking in their submissions for web content (some of which may spark their own creativity and incline them to create new sellable material). Finally, it slows down the flow of alternate (and possibly unbalancing) material coming out of multiple resources.
This would give wizards the chance to focus on making more modules which people may buy, bringing more people to their web site where they advertise the latest things they're selling, bring campaign material experts to WotC, etc... meanwhile they can start development on the next edition of D&D (which, with each new edition, I'm genuinely surprised at the improvements, so I'd really be interested in a new edition if they put as much thought into it as 3.5)
Anyway, this could be me being WAY off-base, but that's the outlook we saw amongst the four of us. It makes a kind of business sense to us, but maybe something entirely different is happening. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Dragon to cease publication and the DL license end
