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Kaewin
Acolyte
USA
25 Posts |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4685 Posts |
 Posted - 19 Apr 2007 : 21:30:35
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Not sure you needed to post it twice, however can add a link of the same basic story.
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/news/20070419a
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"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 19 Apr 2007 : 21:30:40
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Wow, that's sudden... And rather unanticipated.
I can't say I like the demise of one of my long-time favorite print publications... It looks like they're moving to an online-only model. I just hope that we either a) continue to get comparable content, and/or b) that the online version of the magazine follows the existing format.
Either way, it draws vacuum. I know the world is (supposedly) moving to paperless systems, but I don't want that to happen to my reading material. I like having print copies of stuff in hand, and it's danged hard to justify carrying my computer into my "reading" room. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Kaewin
Acolyte
USA
25 Posts |
Posted - 19 Apr 2007 : 21:36:10
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| I'm sorry didn't really mean to put in two places, just wanted to get the word out. I have been reading this mag on and off for 24 yrs. Its been there for all edtions so it seems li9ke its part of D&D, almost a sacred cow. |
Magic is not for Parlor Tricks. ~Sparrow Moros, Second Degree Master |
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Reefy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
892 Posts |
Posted - 19 Apr 2007 : 21:47:04
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| What Wooly said. I didn't see that one coming. |
Life is either daring adventure or nothing. |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 19 Apr 2007 : 21:58:25
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I'm not sure what to say here really. I am truly shocked and did not see this coming. I hope the "online content" also provides for the Volo's Guides that have been appearing in Dragon. I'm also a bit upset about Paizo's Patherfinder adventure path book more or less being a brand new "Paizoverse," becuase it makes it less appealing than if it were just a generic d20 publication to me. I doubt I'll be picking this up.
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Alaundo
Head Moderator
United Kingdom
5692 Posts |
Posted - 19 Apr 2007 : 22:12:00
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Well met
 Well i'm certainly very shocked and saddened by this news. It's the end of an era and comes across quite worrying to me as to the reasons why. Lack of sales and a waning RPG industry, as we've heard before, maybe?
I've bought Dragon since the early 100's and have had a lot of enjoyment from each and every issue. I'll be sad to see it go. |
Alaundo
Candlekeep Forums Head Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
An Introduction to Candlekeep - by Ed Greenwood
The Candlekeep Compendium - Tomes of Realmslore penned by Scribes of Candlekeep
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 19 Apr 2007 : 22:16:15
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| Colored me shocked as well. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 19 Apr 2007 : 22:38:16
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I doubt it's lack of sales, since they just said the other day that they are the third largest company and they have WOTC's backing. Plus, they just bailed out Necromancer Games, who was going under/closing up doors in the next year or so until Paizo partnered with them.
My gut feeling is this has more to do with WOTC wanted to make online content, which has been mentioned before. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 19 Apr 2007 23:18:22 |
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David E
Seeker
USA
55 Posts |
Posted - 19 Apr 2007 : 22:53:57
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Erik Mona said on the Paizo forums that it was not due to a lack of sales - in fact, he said that subscriptions for both magazines were higher than they had been in a while. I'm guessing that WotC decided that it would be more profitable to publish the content themselves rather than get a licensing fees from Paizo. Plus, online content is much more cost-effective than print.
Still, I'm really saddened by this news. To think that a 30-year institution in the world of Dungeons and Dragons is suddenly disappearing is really a bummer. I've only been subscribing to the magazines for four years now, but getting them in the mail every month was something I always looked forward to. Plus, I was really happy with the new Volo's Guide content.
I can't believe they're going to be gone. |
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Alaundo
Head Moderator
United Kingdom
5692 Posts |
Posted - 19 Apr 2007 : 22:59:23
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Well met
Aye, of course there is to be a vast saving on production and distribution costs for taking the publication online instead of to the newsstand.
Like most, I have also been very happy with the content of late. The regular Volo's guides and length FR articles (such as George's Impiltur and the Hordes article) are some of the best i've seen since I first started with Dragon. With their recent anniversary celebrations and announcements of popularity etc, it just seems so out of the blue to stop the magazine this way.
I fear for the success of an online version, but wish WotC all the luck with this venture.
Aye, heading to my FLGS store will ne'er be the same again  |
Alaundo
Candlekeep Forums Head Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
An Introduction to Candlekeep - by Ed Greenwood
The Candlekeep Compendium - Tomes of Realmslore penned by Scribes of Candlekeep
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 19 Apr 2007 : 23:25:25
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For a second post: This just..... bleeping sucks!
I feel like someone just killed someone I know. :( And I'm not the only one who is feeling this way, from the comments on ENworld. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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ijkay
Acolyte
Canada
17 Posts |
Posted - 19 Apr 2007 : 23:38:07
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Well met
I thought I'd add that I too am saddened to see these magazines disappear. While I have subscribed on and off and currently don't, I was always hopeful of seeing new tidbits of FR lore come to light. And when they did I made sure to get my hands on that issue.
One worry I personally have is for the articles by FR loremasters that won't see print by Aug. Hopefully they will make it into the online publication, but with big changes like this sometimes things tend to 'get lost in the transition' hence so many of the elderly NDA's Ed and other authors mention on their threads.
I also worry about the quantity of free material that will appear on the WOC. Hopefully it won't all get lumped into the online publication which will presumeably cost $.
I hope I am just being too pessimistic and worry too much.
As a related question, has their ever been a up-to-date listing of Dragon and Dungeon magazines which contain FR material. I think the online index may have it but haven't figured out how to print the relevent portion out.
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Ian Franks
"So I thought to myself who gives a damn if all the jobs are gone, I'm going to be a Pirate on the River Saskatchewan!", The Arrogant Worms |
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Varl
Learned Scribe
USA
284 Posts |
Posted - 20 Apr 2007 : 00:01:50
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As a Dragon subscriber since issue 70 or so, and Dungeon since the beginning, I don't know how much more bad news I can take in one day. Tom Moldvay has passed, and now this. I greatly enjoyed any FR articles and adventures that Dragon and Dungeon produced, even if I gave up on d20 years ago, I could always convert back. Now, I can't even do that. I don't blame Paizo; they're not to blame. This one's on WotC. Has paper become so expensive, the production so demanding, that they couldn't raise prices yet again to keep the preiodicals in print? Given the choice, I'd prefer higher prices to the axe.
I need a beer.  |
I'm on a permanent vacation to the soul. -Tash Sultana |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 20 Apr 2007 : 00:03:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
I doubt it's lack of sales, since they just said the other day that they are the third largest company and they have WOTC's backing. Plus, they just bailed out Necromancer Games, who was going under/closing up doors in the next year or so until Paizo partnered with them.
My gut feeling is this has more to do with WOTC wanted to make online content, which has been mentioned before.
You know, when you first posted that rumor last year, my initial thought was, "won't this compete with the content in Dragon." I guess I got my answer. |
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Uzzy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
618 Posts |
Posted - 20 Apr 2007 : 00:26:07
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| .. This has to be a joke right? A late and cruel April Fool's joke. Right? It has to be! |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 20 Apr 2007 : 00:33:13
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 Nooo!
I know it's going to sound extremely selfish, but the first thing I thought after reading this was... "What's going to happen to my article now?"
This is certainly disappointing news. Kuje is right... it definitely feels like I've just lost an old friend. 'Tis truly tragic.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 20 Apr 2007 : 00:41:10
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
You know, when you first posted that rumor last year, my initial thought was, "won't this compete with the content in Dragon." I guess I got my answer.
Indeed. :(
Readin the Enworld thread, there's times I've actually started to tear up. :(
THIS did not make my day.
And to Sage: I've been wondering about that all day and I'm saddened about that and what you might be able to do with the article.   |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 20 Apr 2007 00:43:48 |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 20 Apr 2007 : 00:46:24
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| For what its worth Sage, I wondered about the fate of your work as well. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 20 Apr 2007 : 00:49:12
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Thanks KEJR.
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
And to Sage: I've been wondering about that all day and I'm saddened about that and what you might be able to do with the article.
Aye.
I've just sent an email direct to the editors actually, because I'm curious about what I'm supposed to do with the material now, given some of the "official" changes they've made.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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lokilokust
Seeker
USA
61 Posts |
Posted - 20 Apr 2007 : 01:25:43
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of course they conveniently wait until i subscribe to both magazines to announce this.
i grew up reading 'dragon,' and it's a damn shame to see it go. |
yrs. in exile,
-s.j. bagley |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 20 Apr 2007 : 01:40:41
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Well that came out of left field!
Mind you Im actually suprised that PAizo didnt turn Dragon and Dungeon into online magazine along time ago it would have solved quite a few problems for them
1) No more late issues, it seemed like every month there where people on Enworld complaining that there issues hadnt arrived (some times months late)
2) By turning it into online magazine they cut down on publication costs
3) No need to cut down authors articles so they fit in the issue as online magazine can have as many pages as needed
As for Wizards new online conent Im not sure..
The WoTC site is probably one of the worst websites Ive seen on when comes reliablity, there are regularly issues with the website or its message board this is not a good look for company if there going to be selling stuff online
I do wonder how Wizards are going to handle the content they stick up on their site, at the moment FR fans are probably getting 4 pages of FR material a month(2 pages each from Eytans Fortnightly class articles)there would have to be a huge surge in the amount of content before Id consider forking out money for a subscription |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 20 Apr 2007 : 01:41:25
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quote:
Originally posted by lokilokust
of course they conveniently wait until i subscribe to both magazines to announce this.
Fortunately, I prevented that very occurence on the CBT Forums, where I know there are plenty of subscribers to both DRAGON and DUNGEON. Most of those who commented have subscriptions which end in August, so they've largely been saved.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 20 Apr 2007 01:42:30 |
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Uzzy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
618 Posts |
Posted - 20 Apr 2007 : 01:54:59
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You know, if WOTC had launched the online stuff they are planning before doing this, or at least shown us a little of what they are going to do, they might have saved some face. I think many would have given it a fair try, if the online service was well put together and had plenty of new articles, features and tools. I just don't see why the Online Service couldn't have run along side Dragon magazine. As it is, we are faced with a leap into the unknown with only a press release to guide us. This after slaying The Dragon.
Dragon Magazine gets me into my FLGS every month. I make the trip specially to pick it up, and usually spend about 30 Minutes browsing the new products on display, often buying many of them too. It's a link to the DnD World, and to top it off, it's fantastic quality. I'm sure the FLGS are going to love this move from WOTC.
The Dragon has died, folks. Lets at the least give the gal a send off worthy of the place she's had in the heart of gaming for the past 30 years. Going to pick up every issue of Dragon and Dungeon between now and the last issues. |
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lokilokust
Seeker
USA
61 Posts |
Posted - 20 Apr 2007 : 02:04:12
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'Most of those who commented have subscriptions which end in August, so they've largely been saved.'
the refund/reimbursement program that they have set up is pretty impressive, i must admit. |
yrs. in exile,
-s.j. bagley |
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Mazrim_Taim
Learned Scribe
341 Posts |
Posted - 20 Apr 2007 : 02:10:53
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| And to think I just subscribed to this wonderful magazine a few months ago. I've enjoyed it immensley so far, and am sad to see it go. |
And if the PCs DO win their ways through all the liches to Larloch, “he” will almost certainly be just another lich (loaded with explosive spells) set up as a decoy, with dozens of hidden liches waiting to pounce on any surviving PCs who ‘celebrate’ after they take Larloch down. As the REAL Larloch watches (magical scrying) from afar. Myself, as DM, I’d be wondering: “Such a glorious game, so many opportunities laid out before your PCs to devote your time to, and THIS fixation is the best you can come up with? Are you SURE you’re adventurers?” -Ed Greenwood
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 20 Apr 2007 : 02:25:13
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For what its worth, and I know some of you may or may not want to support the upcoming online venture, but since this is "the" outlet for anything Realmsian short of whatever sourcebooks or adventures they put out, I thought that I would try to get my two cents in at WOTC in order to influence what and how the material may be presented. It may not do any good, but we'll see. I tried to remain as positive as possible, and I put in plugs for the various articles that have been staples of Dragon for years now. If you are interested in seeing the thread and posting there, it can be found at WOTC's site here:
http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=832495
Before I forget, I wanted to mention that I plugged some of our very own Realmslore experts that have gotten published in Dragon and mentioned that I would be very happy if they managed to get tapped to write some of the online content.
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Edited by - KnightErrantJR on 20 Apr 2007 02:41:24 |
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3catcircus
Acolyte
32 Posts |
Posted - 20 Apr 2007 : 02:57:13
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Nooo!
I know it's going to sound extremely selfish, but the first thing I thought after reading this was... "What's going to happen to my article now?"
This is certainly disappointing news. Kuje is right... it definitely feels like I've just lost an old friend. 'Tis truly tragic.
What're the odds that WotC will attempt to publish your article without your permission? Was paizo required to give back all of their Dungeon and Dragon content (published or not)? |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
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Penknight
Senior Scribe
USA
538 Posts |
Posted - 20 Apr 2007 : 03:19:29
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I am truly bothered to see the end of this magazine as well, especially since I (really) just started reading it a year or so ago, and then an old 1st/2nd Edition copy of Dragon was given to me. Ah, the memories.
Fare thee well noble Dragon, you will be missed. |
Telethian Phoenix
Pathfinder Reference Document |
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warlockco
Master of Realmslore
USA
1695 Posts |
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Dragon to cease publication and the DL license end
