| Author |
 Topic  |
|
Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
 Posted - 19 Jun 2007 : 10:43:51
|
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Three niggles, thus far.
The tiniest: misspelling on a chapter head ("Awais" for "Awaits").
The middling-annoying: the cross-section of dungeon levels. Sewers start too deep, Mount Waterdeep is WAY too small (vis-a-vis Castle Waterdeep), and the Citadel of the Black Hand should be well up inside the mountain.
Biggest: the level maps are so small as to become fairly useless "pretty pictures" rather than usable maps. Astonishing move when the publisher is pushing miniatures in an ever-stronger manner.
On the flip side: it is SO nice to get this treatment for the Yawning Portal, and get an overview at last. Much simplified from Ed's original, but then, it all has to fit into one book, not nine or ten. 
love to all,
THO
I just glanced through the book and found a couple more missing letters etc.
The maps are...let's just put it this way: damned! I am soooo glad I have the boxed sets and adventures.
As for the scaling, I thought Undermountain was to be understood literally...under a bloody mountain, the way it is shown it could well be Undercity instead of Undermountain. The Yawning Portal is on Mount Waterdeep...
The new encounter format...my biggest grip and yet a good idea, no matter how misplaced it might be. Had Wizards made them encounters into a web-enhancement, we would have had a chance for more detailed maps, more detailed traps (where the bloody hell are they????) and so on.
I know that Expedition to Undermountain is a generic D&D module, and as such it has to cater to the general audience, but I doubt that people will get that much bang for their buck...
As it is, I think I can use the encounters...and will make the best of ye olde boxed sets and adventures.... |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
 |
|
|
The Grumpy Celt
Acolyte
46 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jun 2007 : 23:21:11
|
quote:
Hmmm.. Elder Evils is not an FR book.
I never said it was. However, EtU suggests Elder Evils as a follow up work, presumably what is in that book is what The Big H was trying to prevent.
I like the idea of H using the runestone to stabilize the palce - it makes the runestone more valuable.
And I have other plots for the Manshoon clone... |
"It's all fun and games until someone loses an eye."
-Vecna |
|
|
|
Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
|
|
Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2007 : 18:46:01
|
| The map of the first level ist basically the same as far as I could tell...cut down some but still |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
|
|
|
Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jun 2007 : 05:43:23
|
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
So have any scribes managed to score a copy yet?
I haven't seen a release date for AUS yet. Have you? What about you George?
Haven't heard a thing. I"m expecting it when it arrives, if you get my meaning.
-- George Krashos
One of my players said the Tin Soldier in Sydney have it (Mine should hopefully arrive from Amazon some time this week) |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
|
|
|
Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jun 2007 : 22:07:37
|
| Got it a few days ago... I'm about to sit down with a cold drink on my backyard patio and flip through it. Let me know if some of you want me to check something in it on your behalf... |
|
|
|
Drunken Master
Acolyte
USA
39 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jun 2007 : 14:42:56
|
I was looking forward to having an "official" map of the interior of the Yawning Portal, but apparently the cartographer paid zero attention to the inn's description and just threw in a stock inn interior map. The text states that the inn's common room is dominated by a 40-foot diameter well. It's not on the map at all; just a bunch of tables and chairs. What's more, it wouldn't fit anyway, as the rectangular layout of the inn is just 40 feet wide from one exterior wall to the other, and the common room itself is only 25 feet wide!! I hope this is just a goof from them rushing to get it out on time, and they give us the "real" map in a web enhancement.
I am enjoying the general plot and the encounters so far, and luckily I have the Second Edition material to supplement what's in the book. |
Erik Nowak
Graphic Designer, Blackdirge Publishing |
Edited by - Drunken Master on 25 Jun 2007 14:57:03 |
|
|
|
Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jun 2007 : 01:00:00
|
| In my opinion, the dungeon maps in the book are some of the prettiest maps I've seen in a long time. Usuable? No. But very pretty. As someone else said, thank goodness I have the 2e version. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
|
|
|
Asgetrion
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1564 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jun 2007 : 14:54:14
|
quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
Wizards have stuck another map up
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/mapofweek/June2007/03_June2007_72_3dhe_ppi.jpg
By the way has anyone checked the EtU maps and seen if there the same as the ones in the Ruins of Undermountain boxset?
Looks pretty much the same, from what I recall as a player. Only these are uglier than the ones in the boxed set. Are these the final maps from the module? If so, I probably have never seen as unusable maps in a role-playing product so far. Looks like they hired the wrong guy for the job, because you practically have to redraw all the maps yourself. It also seems that they've cropped the maps, so you'd better have the original boxed set if you want to run this module properly.  |
"What am I doing today? Ask me tomorrow - I can be sure of giving you the right answer then."
-- Askarran of Selgaunt, Master Sage, speaking to a curious merchant, Year of the Helm |
|
|
|
The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jun 2007 : 16:09:56
|
Sigh. So much for the "corrected" Yawning Portal Inn maps Ed drew and sent in. I know they're correct (and indeed show the well), because I've seen them.
Grrr. And so forth. |
|
|
|
Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jun 2007 : 00:54:34
|
Part of what's odd-looking about the dungeon level maps is the shading and highlighting on the rock sections, which suggests that they have a flat top exposed to light.
I like blue/black-and-white maps, me.
At least we have the Castle Krag map now, even if it had to be snucked in under another name. |
|
|
|
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jun 2007 : 00:58:30
|
| Maybe this question has been answered already, but what was the point in making this product generic? |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
|
|
|
KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jun 2007 : 01:10:19
|
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Maybe this question has been answered already, but what was the point in making this product generic?
On one hand, my knee jerk reaction was to say that its to try and snag people that don't care about the setting into getting a "classic" adventure that they would likely skip if it was just a Forgotten Realms product.
I have noticed though, and this is annecdotal, that on some boards, like Paizo's, since this isn't part of the FR line, there are some people that are going to use it as a Realms product, but haven't played since 2nd edition, because the "Core" status made them take a look at at Realms product again. I'm not sure if WOTC researched this or not, but there are at least a few testimonials like this.
On the other hand, as one person put it over there, quite happily, as a generic adventure it "fails miserably," and he meant it as a compliment.
I liked it overall. I thought it was a good 3.5 update to whats going on in UnderMountain and an interesting plot to give you an excuse to have your PCs tromp through the place, but its hard for me to gauge how I would feel about it if I didn't have some affection for UnderMountain to begin with. |
|
|
|
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jun 2007 : 01:13:15
|
| Heh, thanks for your answer. :) |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
|
|
|
Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jun 2007 : 09:47:17
|
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Sigh. So much for the "corrected" Yawning Portal Inn maps Ed drew and sent in. I know they're correct (and indeed show the well), because I've seen them.
Grrr. And so forth.
Why the bleeding hell would they print a false map?
It should be obvious to anyone with half a brain that the well could not fit into the place they present as the inn |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
|
|
|
George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6647 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jun 2007 : 10:52:04
|
I'm reading through it at the moment and quite like it as adventures go.
-- George Krashos
|
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
|
|
|
Dhomal
Senior Scribe
USA
565 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jun 2007 : 16:03:53
|
Hello-
I have to agree with George on this one! :)
I laughed out loud at some of the grafiti-scrawl on the walls near the Inn!
Dhomal |
I am collecting the D&D Minis. I would be more than willing to trade with people. You can send me a PM here with your email listed - and I can send you my minis list. Thanks!
Successfully traded with Xysma! |
|
|
|
Gelcur
Senior Scribe
503 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jun 2007 : 16:07:54
|
I just got mine last night. Spent a few hours reading some important parts and skimming the rest. I was pleased, people have mixed feelings about the book but I think its great.
The way the encounters were presented in the new system reminded a lot of the online Undermountain articles and I had loved those as well. The maps they released last week were just the tip of the iceberg though I agree that I didn't like the first 2 levels cropped. Take a look at the rest of the maps, here, they posted them today. Note, this map and this map are numbered to the adventure in the book as are some of the others.
I liked that we now have layouts of levels that we didn't have maps for before, at least I'm pretty sure we didn't have a map for the Terminus Level or the Mad Wizard's Lair and some others, I don't have my interactive atlas on me.
Though seeing the above map mistake I have a question it was late last night and I may have misread but does the wizard layer lead to the Underdark? If that's right is it from those cave like things on the western edge? I may have just been swimming in information at the time and very very sleepy since I stayed up very very late to get through it all. |
The party come to a town befallen by hysteria
Rogue: So what's in the general store?
DM: What are you looking for?
Rogue: Whatevers in the store.
DM: Like what?
Rogue: Everything.
DM: There is a lot of stuff.
Rogue: Is there a cart outside?
DM: (rolls) Yes.
Rogue: We'll take it all, we may need it for the greater good. |
Edited by - Gelcur on 27 Jun 2007 16:13:35 |
|
|
|
MerrikCale
Senior Scribe
USA
947 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jun 2007 : 17:11:09
|
| so I suppose the concensus is that the book is worth it |
When hinges creak in doorless chambers and strange and frightening sounds echo through the halls, whenever candlelights flicker where the air is deathly still, that is the time when ghosts are present, practicing their terror with ghoulish delight. |
|
|
|
Gwenfloor
Acolyte
39 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jun 2007 : 04:11:12
|
I just looked at it in my local book store, and I have found an adventure that I seriously want to get. Too bad that I can't afford it as of now. |
|
|
|
AlorinDawn
Learned Scribe
USA
313 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jun 2007 : 21:45:26
|
| Not a bad go at Undermountain I suppose. Bring back boxed sets! |
|
|
|
Chyron
Learned Scribe
Hong Kong
279 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jun 2007 : 09:41:14
|
Just got my copy in the mail today. General impressions;
I liked the chapter 1 summary of the levels. The maps are not completely useless for me since I find them handy for reference (no need to pull out all the box set maps at once now, etc). I found the profile map a bit amusing since it makes Mount Waterdeep look more like an anthill as an earlier post mentioned (at least compared with the old city poster of Waterdeep from the City System boxed set).
The overall artwork was a mixed bag. Some of the illustrations look nice, others look rushed and lacking in quality.
S
P
O
I
L
E
R
S
I am a bit miffed about the treatment of Halaster for this product. Particularly since the conclusion of the module leaves the mysterious event that prompted him to his demise is left to the whims of the DM. Iconic characters deserve better treatment. If this product were accompanying a novel tie in, perhaps I would not mind so much.
The fact that the Yawning Portal map is wrong is just pure insult upon injury. Maybe WOTC can we can get an errata map put up.
|
Just My Thoughts
Chyron :)
|
Edited by - Chyron on 29 Jun 2007 09:43:02 |
|
|
|
SoulCatcher78
Acolyte
2 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jun 2007 : 21:58:20
|
There's a lot of room in this product for web updates. The level one map is incomplete at best, it doesn't even show the rift that's shown in the first adventure map included with the book. I had to take out the old edition maps to find the location of the entrance well (also not marked on tehe level 1 map) and the lack of secret door/ramp/stairway information makes the level 1 map pretty to look at but that's about it. Someone on the WotC forums posted an image of the old level 1 map with the rift (go Photoshop) that was quite helpful. I was worried about them placing an image of it online until I realized that it wouldn't do them much good without the old map and numbered key.
The encounters look and feel like they were well planned so no complaints there at all. This part of the adventure looks to have had the most time spent on it (as it should have) but I was hoping for something more along the lines of what they had been posting on the WotC site to be inlcuded.
Spoiler:
Leaving it open ended like a bad TV season ending was annoying. The map of the Yawning Portal still not fixed...who didn't get the last three memos? No real information on the Twisted Rune liches (boo-hiss since they apparently had something to do with Halasters ritual going wonky on him...how is anyones guess since you can't teleport or cast spells into UM from the outside), not sure if that's going to be forthcoming or not. Scaling it down so that it could be used with initial players might get more copies sold for non realms use but I've always considered UM a meatgrinder of almost ToH proportions (there's more monsters and therefore a better chance of survival in UM). There's a reason that no-one wants Halasters job or has been willing to try to take it...it'll drive you batty down there. |
Save the Succubus, Save the Wheel |
|
|
|
Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2007 : 01:10:06
|
| Maybe they (Wizards) plan on using the upcoming digital version of Dragon to "correct" the mistakes ... but you hafta subscribe that stuff...who knows, it worked for Lucas and his hyperspace stuff...maybe it works for wizards as well. So sad... |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
|
|
|
Victor_ograygor
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1072 Posts |
|
|
Kajehase
Great Reader
Sweden
2104 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jul 2007 : 09:52:34
|
Highlight to read.
He is indeed having a closer-than-near-death experience. |
There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett |
|
|
|
Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jul 2007 : 04:51:48
|
I never thought I would say that about a product signed by both Ed and Eric.. it's a total disappointment for me. I waited to find something good in it before posting this, but I really can't.
The maps are a total insult (being incomplete and in contradiction with previous lore, not even talking about art issues).
If you don't want to give the FR designers some space to include relevant FR lore (We learn nearly nothing new about Undermoutain and
the plot around Halaster's death and the Twisted Rune is really thin) why bother to use them ?
Finally, the quantity of reprinted content add to it...
The only good thing ? I've read it at my LFGS and didn't spend a dollar on it. |
Edited by - Skeptic on 10 Jul 2007 04:57:23 |
|
|
|
Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jul 2007 : 09:26:50
|
quote:
Originally posted by Skeptic
I never thought I would say that about a product signed by both Ed and Eric.. it's a total disappointment for me. I waited to find something good in it before posting this, but I really can't.
The maps are a total insult (being incomplete and in contradiction with previous lore, not even talking about art issues).
If you don't want to give the FR designers some space to include relevant FR lore (We learn nearly nothing new about Undermoutain and
the plot around Halaster's death and the Twisted Rune is really thin) why bother to use them ?
Finally, the quantity of reprinted content add to it...
The only good thing ? I've read it at my LFGS and didn't spend a dollar on it.
I (dis)agree. First of all, it is a generic product and as such must cater to a wider audience, thus it is undertandable that there isn't more lore in it.
But you are right, the maps suck. Again I say that I'm glad to own the boxed sets and adventure modules dealing with UM.
I wonder if the adventure will be part of official Realms history (I hope not!) |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
|
|
|
Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jul 2007 : 12:55:24
|
quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
First of all, it is a generic product and as such must cater to a wider audience, thus it is undertandable that there isn't more lore in it.
It seems to me that if Ruins of Undermountain hadn't been the rich collection it was, filled with background and texture and context and incidental detail, it would never have had the lasting appeal, among non-Realms DMs too, which prompted the Expedition book. In other words, I think this book's existence is argument against its own lore-lightening. |
|
|
|
Victor_ograygor
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1072 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2007 : 12:43:06
|
quote:
Originally posted by Skeptic
I never thought I would say that about a product signed by both Ed and Eric.. it's a total disappointment for me. I waited to find something good in it before posting this, but I really can't.
The maps are a total insult (being incomplete and in contradiction with previous lore, not even talking about art issues).
If you don't want to give the FR designers some space to include relevant FR lore (We learn nearly nothing new about Undermoutain and
the plot around Halaster's death and the Twisted Rune is really thin) why bother to use them ?
Finally, the quantity of reprinted content add to it...
The only good thing ? I've read it at my LFGS and didn't spend a dollar on it.
Read the whole book now 
I agree with you this product is just a total disappointment for me too.
The plot around Halaster's death is unfinished and afoul 
This is the worst FR product up to date………
|
Victor Ograygor The Assassin and Candel keeps cellar master
Everything I need to know about life I learned from killing smart people.
Links related to Forgotten Realms
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=9571
Adventuring / Mercenary Companies / Orders / The chosen from official sources
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=11047
Priests in Forgotten Realms.
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=9609&whichpage=1 |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
Expedition to UnderMountain Information
