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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
 Posted - 14 Jun 2007 : 22:56:24
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Seriously, I don't know the full extent of the story and how its told, but its kind of a double edged sword. If the same NPCs stay around forever and are "untouchable" then the setting gets hung with the "The NPCs are the stars, not the PCs" sterotype, and when they die, then fans of the character's get upset. I can understand being upset, I love Halaster, and I'd love for him to keep kicking around for a while, and I worry about the rationale behind UnderMountain being maintained without him . . . but if the story is well told and ties into some interesting Realmslore, than they, I'm in as well.
It was probably the same feeling with Azoun IV and his fellow wizard (even if the last one isn't properly dead). |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jun 2007 : 00:01:02
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I called my FLGS this afternoon... Monday or Tuesday is when the book will be in. But I want it now!  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Gelcur
Senior Scribe
504 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jun 2007 : 00:16:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I called my FLGS this afternoon... Monday or Tuesday is when the book will be in. But I want it now!
I think we can all agree about that! |
The party come to a town befallen by hysteria
Rogue: So what's in the general store?
DM: What are you looking for?
Rogue: Whatevers in the store.
DM: Like what?
Rogue: Everything.
DM: There is a lot of stuff.
Rogue: Is there a cart outside?
DM: (rolls) Yes.
Rogue: We'll take it all, we may need it for the greater good. |
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turox
Learned Scribe
USA
145 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jun 2007 : 00:34:24
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| I think that after El, Halaster was my second favorite character in the Realms. Never knew which side of the fence he would fall on. The good or the bad side. I think that mystery is what I liked about him. Already I'm seriously planning if I ever RUN a realms game again mentioning to the players that Waterdeep sank into the ocean. But I have to do some research on that as I am right now under the impression that is was Halaster who kept Waterdeep from falling down. But I am going to cross my fingers and go right to Borders after work and see if they already have it on the shelf cause I am like Wooly and Gelcur and WANT IT NOW!!! |
Turox Antas Dragonslayer -
"People will believe anything they want to believe, or fear to believe."
Wizard's First Rule: Chapter 36, Page #397, US Hard Cover (revealed by Zeddicus Zu'l Zorander).
Explanation by Zeddicus Zu'l Zorander: "People are stupid; given proper motivation, almost anyone will believe almost anything. Because people are stupid, they will believe a lie because they want to believe it's true, or because they are afraid it might be true. People’s heads are full of knowledge, facts, and beliefs, and most of it is false, yet they think it all true. People are stupid; they can only rarely tell the difference between a lie and the truth, and yet they are confident they can, and so are all the easier to fool."
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jun 2007 : 00:40:02
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| I wonder if the Manshoon clone living in Undermountain was involved in his death...... |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jun 2007 : 00:52:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
I wonder if the Manshoon clone living in Undermountain was involved in his death......
And/or if he's going to take over Halaster's position... |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jun 2007 : 01:07:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
I wonder if the Manshoon clone living in Undermountain was involved in his death......
And/or if he's going to take over Halaster's position...
Interesting idea
After Halasters "Mental freedom" when hes kidnapped by agents of Twisted Rune (read not insane as hes not effected by Undermountain madness) Halaster decides that he wants to leave Undermountain so he starts coming up with a plan to reach that gaol. Halasters knows that if he just ups and leaves then Undermountain will cause all sorts of problems for Faerun so he needs to find someone to replace him as the Mad mage of Undermountain several years later a Manshoon clone appears in Undermountain and Halaster takes the clone in as an Apprentice secretly planning to entice or trick the clone into taking Halasters place.
Halaster finds out that in order to release him self from being the Mad mage he has to die. So Halaster cuts a deal with Mystra (She owes him a favour for freeing El from the Nine Hells) that when he dies she will resurrect him thus setting him free...... |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jun 2007 : 12:39:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
Profile of Undermountain and a Map of the Dungeon level can be found here
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mw/20070614x
I wish they'd provided a top-down view of the map -- how the levels are actually oriented with each other, in terms of horizontal placement. The profile makes it appear that all the levels are the same size, and are neatly stacked over each other. I always pictured the levels as being more haphazardly scattered, with the sublevels being more off to the side (so to speak), and with levels and sublevels sharing overlapping depths (maybe sublevel one was exactly 100 feet underground, with sublevel two situated near it and lieing at 105 feet underground). |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Gelcur
Senior Scribe
504 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jun 2007 : 14:38:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Uzzy
maybe introduce some people to DnD with it!
That is a scary thought. I'm thinking of luring the players, level fives, from my current campaign, we've been running 2 years, into Undermountain and I have second thoughts about it sometimes. The place is a death trap =)
I really can't wait to read a lot more on the Halaster plot in the tome. And to see what the Twisted Rune is up to.
As for the new profile map it's great.
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I wish they'd provided a top-down view of the map -- how the levels are actually oriented with each other, in terms of horizontal placement.
I do agree a top-down map would have been awesome, I've tried making one in photoshop, matching the size ratio of the 'Deep to Undermountain Lvl 1. But I could not get things to line up even close I tried rotating them thinking maybe true north wasn't true north on the Lvl 1 map and that sort of helped. It really comes down to having to suspend disbelief to link the city with Undermountain. Maybe next time I'll try to match up all the main layers with the help of the new profile map. |
The party come to a town befallen by hysteria
Rogue: So what's in the general store?
DM: What are you looking for?
Rogue: Whatevers in the store.
DM: Like what?
Rogue: Everything.
DM: There is a lot of stuff.
Rogue: Is there a cart outside?
DM: (rolls) Yes.
Rogue: We'll take it all, we may need it for the greater good. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jun 2007 : 15:48:39
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| Well, we know of places where there are passages between the various levels. The first thing to do would be to orient the levels with each other using those connections... Of course, that doesn't do anything for levels that we don't know the connecting points for, or for levels that don't have physical connections... |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Gelcur
Senior Scribe
504 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jun 2007 : 16:31:30
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| Yeah orientation proved easy at first most of the maps have a compass rose with North on it. Problem was when I found two points on WD that I could match up, I used the Yawning Portal and the Monastery, to get them to line up it took rotating the map after the maps scales were set properly. Again both maps had a compass with north on them so... something was lacking. I think perfectly lining them up becomes hard because of the gap between levels. Sure we have stairs that go down on this level and come out on this other level but there might be hundreds of steps that wind in odd ways that offset the outcomes of those links. =( |
The party come to a town befallen by hysteria
Rogue: So what's in the general store?
DM: What are you looking for?
Rogue: Whatevers in the store.
DM: Like what?
Rogue: Everything.
DM: There is a lot of stuff.
Rogue: Is there a cart outside?
DM: (rolls) Yes.
Rogue: We'll take it all, we may need it for the greater good. |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jun 2007 : 21:49:34
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Seriously, I don't know the full extent of the story and how its told, but its kind of a double edged sword. If the same NPCs stay around forever and are "untouchable" then the setting gets hung with the "The NPCs are the stars, not the PCs" sterotype . . .
A few people who don't use the Realms moaning on the Internet don't count as a sword edge.quote:
. . . and when they die, then fans of the character's get upset.
Not least because "dead" characters are unlikely to get their due in new sources. The timeline has now advanced almost a generation -- a generation of non-magically-long-lived people will soon have died -- before we even got to know them. And all to sell novels and for a fake, spurious sense of novelty. It just seems crazy to me. |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jun 2007 : 22:22:02
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| According to Richard baker Halasters death is also covered in The Grand History of the Realms |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6648 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jun 2007 : 10:27:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
According to Richard baker Halasters death is also covered in The Grand History of the Realms
The timeline entry in GHotR follows the events in EtU. The events in EtU were not dictated by material in GhotR.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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ddporter
Acolyte
26 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jun 2007 : 15:03:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Skeptic
Also, THO, some said on ENWorld that the fluff text is awfull, I'm a bit surprised, it was not written by Ed ?
When I checked ENWorld, the sense I got was that one poster thought that using a larger font size for the read-aloud text was awful, not that all the fluff was awful. |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jun 2007 : 00:28:40
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| So have any scribes managed to score a copy yet? |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jun 2007 : 00:40:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
So have any scribes managed to score a copy yet?
My comic guy said probably next week. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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MerrikCale
Senior Scribe
USA
947 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jun 2007 : 04:54:04
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| Is it wrong of me not to give two hoots about Halaster? Can't wait for the book though. Looks fun |
When hinges creak in doorless chambers and strange and frightening sounds echo through the halls, whenever candlelights flicker where the air is deathly still, that is the time when ghosts are present, practicing their terror with ghoulish delight. |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jun 2007 : 05:02:09
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| I'm still reading through it, but I'm pretty happy with it. If someone is new to the Realms, there is plenty of Realmslore to explain UnderMountain and its history. Its a great UnderMountain guide for a 3.5 campaign, at least as an overview, and on top of that, for a long time Realms fan, there are plenty of updates on various powergroups and settlements in the depths, and lots of current doings of NPCs associated with UnderMountain. I'm pretty happy with it, and my biggest complaint is probably that the intro to each chapter tries to tell you how generic the adventure is meant to be, and then (happily) ignores this disclaimer and jumps strait into the Realmslore again. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6648 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jun 2007 : 07:05:42
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
So have any scribes managed to score a copy yet?
I haven't seen a release date for AUS yet. Have you? What about you George?
Haven't heard a thing. I"m expecting it when it arrives, if you get my meaning.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jun 2007 : 15:36:01
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Three niggles, thus far.
The tiniest: misspelling on a chapter head ("Awais" for "Awaits").
The middling-annoying: the cross-section of dungeon levels. Sewers start too deep, Mount Waterdeep is WAY too small (vis-a-vis Castle Waterdeep), and the Citadel of the Black Hand should be well up inside the mountain.
Biggest: the level maps are so small as to become fairly useless "pretty pictures" rather than usable maps. Astonishing move when the publisher is pushing miniatures in an ever-stronger manner.
On the flip side: it is SO nice to get this treatment for the Yawning Portal, and get an overview at last. Much simplified from Ed's original, but then, it all has to fit into one book, not nine or ten. 
love to all,
THO |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jun 2007 : 15:45:43
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I noticed that about the level maps . . . it took me quite a while to squint enough to see the exact corridor that once housed a Cult of Orcus in my campain. The Dungeon Level still has maps on the WOTC site though, and they put the maps up on WOTC's site, so hopefully these can be used a bit more effectively.
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Dhomal
Senior Scribe
USA
565 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2007 : 06:25:24
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Hello-
I have this also. I have just started reading through it. Like others - I dont like the loss of Halaster - but - I see the possibility of bringing him back perhaps - by re-assembling the shattered sould that was spread throughout the realms... I'd say - Major oppportunity for a Web Enhancement!
Also - i was thinking - its possible that maybe all of the plot-points revolving around his death could be re-created via some other medium. Perhaps he is kidknapped (again, yes - so proibably not a good choice) or had to seal himself away in order to protect himself from something... dunno - I'm still reading!
As an aside - and an importasnt one - the 2 copies we received at work were both defective. One had the 1st 16 pages upside down - and then missing the next 16 pages. the second one started out With the missing 16 pages - and then re-started from the beginning, correctly. Just something to look out for I guess.
Dhomal |
I am collecting the D&D Minis. I would be more than willing to trade with people. You can send me a PM here with your email listed - and I can send you my minis list. Thanks!
Successfully traded with Xysma! |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2007 : 20:17:12
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This book will be in my hands in about two hours. 
My car is currently DOA, so my girlfriend is picking me up from work... I'm almost tempted to let her drive home, just so I can flip thru the book that much quicker! |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 18 Jun 2007 20:18:08 |
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The Grumpy Celt
Acolyte
46 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2007 : 23:28:05
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So, apparently Halaster exploded when he was working some epic magic down in the basement of Under-mountain while trying to forestall the appearance of something more evil than him.
And this may, or may not, connect with the forthcoming Elder Evils (December).
The last time Halaster was absent from Under-mountain, all the gates and what not went haywire and it caused a lot of trouble. So what happens now that is absence is essentially permanent?
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"It's all fun and games until someone loses an eye."
-Vecna |
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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jun 2007 : 00:00:37
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| Hmmm.. Elder Evils is not an FR book. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jun 2007 : 00:50:22
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quote:
Originally posted by The Grumpy Celt
So, apparently Halaster exploded when he was working some epic magic down in the basement of Under-mountain while trying to forestall the appearance of something more evil than him.
And while it likely isn't at all connected, I do have to ponder the possibility of it being tied to the prophecy that Khelben was working to prevent...
quote:
Originally posted by The Grumpy Celt
The last time Halaster was absent from Under-mountain, all the gates and what not went haywire and it caused a lot of trouble. So what happens now that is absence is essentially permanent?
Yeah, the lack of an "overall aftermath" is a bit disappointing. Me, I'd assume that whatever Hallie was doing to the Runestone was part of an effort to stabilize the Underhalls when he wasn't around. Another alternative is for another powerful mage -- possibly even the Manshoon clone! -- to step in and fill Hallie's shoes.
But, keep in mind this is just my impression from having flipped thru the book once. I've not had time to read it, and I'm willing to assume that at least some of these concerns are addressed in the course of the adventure. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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MerrikCale
Senior Scribe
USA
947 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jun 2007 : 02:14:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Skeptic
Hmmm.. Elder Evils is not an FR book.
what made you think it was? |
When hinges creak in doorless chambers and strange and frightening sounds echo through the halls, whenever candlelights flicker where the air is deathly still, that is the time when ghosts are present, practicing their terror with ghoulish delight. |
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Expedition to UnderMountain Information
