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Alisttair
Great Reader

Canada
3054 Posts

Posted - 08 Apr 2010 :  15:08:11  Show Profile  Visit Alisttair's Homepage Send Alisttair a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The pyramids were made by extra-terrestrial beings who flew away on ships...uhhh spelljamer ships...and come back to probe the current races of Faerun.

Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)

Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023
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Jakk
Great Reader

Canada
2165 Posts

Posted - 08 Apr 2010 :  22:31:01  Show Profile Send Jakk a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

<snip>
But please note that Ed created Ascore. He did not create the pyramids there. These were an invention of Paul Jaquays in FR5 The Savage Frontier. In his usual "tidy up all those extraneous references and creations" manner, he no doubt can give you a lore-answer for what they are etc if he had to but he does not. He likes a mystery, does our Ed.

-- George Krashos




From my sporadic bursts of research into these infernal pyramids, I can say without hesitation that yes, the pyramids are Ed's creation; I was briefly in touch with Paul about a year and a half ago with regard to those pyramids, and he was able to confirm (from Ed himself) that they were from Ed's original source material. Or, at least, that was Ed's answer to Paul, sent along to me at that time (30 Sept 2008). I like a good mystery too, but this is a mystery that I'd like my PCs to investigate when they get to an appropriate level, and I'd like to give them the answer that makes the most sense.

Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.

If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic.
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Jakk
Great Reader

Canada
2165 Posts

Posted - 08 Apr 2010 :  22:35:25  Show Profile Send Jakk a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone

Another question: wasn't that area Giant territory back in the day?



I believe it was, Brimstone. After reading BRJ's excellent piece of Realmslore on the formerly-NDA'd Ironfang Keep (yes, NDAs are mortal; they are just *very* hard to kill), I'm curious as to the locations (or former locations) of the other fortresses of Helligheim. Still, it would be interesting to see if there are any connections there... and an idea just struck me. Hang on; I need to check some sources.

Edit: Nope. The numbers don't add up without fudging, and it doesn't make sense, at least not without knowing how much of the giant creation story in "Giantcraft" (if any of it) is from Ed's original design.

Another idea: Ascore was a dwarven city before the Phaerimm dried up the Narrow Sea and created Anauroch... I don't think the pyramids are dwarven, but they may be phaerimm artifacts...

quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair

The pyramids were made by extra-terrestrial beings who flew away on ships...uhhh spelljamer ships...and come back to probe the current races of Faerun.



Erm... hasn't that been done before? But maybe Ed's a fan of Erich von Daniken... the idea is certainly intriguing...

Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.

If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic.

Edited by - Jakk on 08 Apr 2010 22:50:37
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
6422 Posts

Posted - 09 Apr 2010 :  05:46:46  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Jakk

quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

<snip>
But please note that Ed created Ascore. He did not create the pyramids there. These were an invention of Paul Jaquays in FR5 The Savage Frontier. In his usual "tidy up all those extraneous references and creations" manner, he no doubt can give you a lore-answer for what they are etc if he had to but he does not. He likes a mystery, does our Ed.

-- George Krashos




From my sporadic bursts of research into these infernal pyramids, I can say without hesitation that yes, the pyramids are Ed's creation; I was briefly in touch with Paul about a year and a half ago with regard to those pyramids, and he was able to confirm (from Ed himself) that they were from Ed's original source material. Or, at least, that was Ed's answer to Paul, sent along to me at that time (30 Sept 2008). I like a good mystery too, but this is a mystery that I'd like my PCs to investigate when they get to an appropriate level, and I'd like to give them the answer that makes the most sense.



Well, I'm happy to stand corrected. It's just that in FR1 they aren't mentioned. In FR5 they are. Have fun unravelling the 'mystery'.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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Jakk
Great Reader

Canada
2165 Posts

Posted - 16 Apr 2010 :  01:54:51  Show Profile Send Jakk a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Okay, here's what I learned from Ed recently (my questions followed by Ed's answers):
quote:
Originally posted by Jakk

<chop>
I have one last question (a simple Yes or No) regarding the pyramids... er, two Yes-or-No questions (nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition except me):

1) Were the pyramids in Ascore present at the city's founding?
2) If not, were they present at any time before the fall of Mystryl and Karsus?

That's all. Oh... one other little detail... the remains of Karsus' petrified corpse are described in multiple sources as being red-hued stone... would this be the same shade of red as those pyramids?

Okay, I guess that's three... clearly, I count about as well as a red-clad Python.

Thank you again, Ed and THO, for your patience, your voice of reason, and (most of all) for being here for fans of the Realms.

Edit: Something just jumped out at me from the pages of FR5 in the write-up on Karse. A simple Yes, No, or NDA will be absolutely wonderful as an answer to this fourth question: is that ring of 13 dire oaks in Karse connected with the 13 pyramids of Ascore in any way? I have a theory... ...although the answer is irrelevant if my third question's answer is "No"...

quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One

Hi again, all.
<snip>
Jakk, here are a few answers, straight from Ed:

Question 1: No.
Question 2: No comment.
Question 3: Don't think so.
"Question 4" followup edit: I think so...yes...


Evil glee at the thought of your reactions, Jakk (sorry, I mustn't be cruel...)
love to all,
THO



Evil glee returned, THO... I have no idea "who" or "why" yet, but I have the beginnings of a "what"... I need to re-read the old lore in more detail. However, if I were to speculate right now, I would quote Wooly Rupert on Larloch; I suspect that what those pyramids are doing is containing something... hence the overwhelming radiant evil emanating therefrom... and as it turns out, my "Question 3" is irrelevant. That's Speculation #1.

My original theory (that the pyramids were constructed from stone quarried from the petrified giant body of Karsus) was neat, too. Thinking about it, even a stone corpse that size wouldn't have enough stone to build thirteen pyramids... is the size of those pyramids under NDA? I don't remember seeing anything about how big they are in published lore. (Size of pyramids; Question #2.)

I'm fairly confident (based on the relatively recent arrival of the pyramids) that they have nothing to do with the Shadevari (one of two other big "13"s I can think of, the other being the Skulls of Skullport, which I'm equally sure is another coincidence).

Many, many thanks for those answers, Ed, as cryptic as they were; they got my wheels turning and that's always a good thing. Now, of course, I'm wondering about those dire oaks, because I honestly had not expected a connection there... FR5 is somewhat lacking in details on this point, so is there anything you can share with us regarding that species of flora in general? (Question #3 and final.)



I have something else intriguing that I have not yet asked Ed about; it occurred to me on my walk home from work today. In FR5, the "Game Information" section of the description of the red stone butte near Karse reads as follows:
quote:
An avatar (minor physical manifestation) of the dying god Karsus dwells in a temple atop the butte, his everflowing blood contributing to the magical nature of the Dire Wood, while deep within the butte, Karsus's gigantic, living heart beats ponderously.

If this information is correct and current as of 1357 DR (given that it's a 1st-edition source and the ToT spans most of the year 1358), then Karsus was a living entity for at least 1700 years following Mystra's ascension. Any thoughts on what (if anything) this might have to do with the riddle of the pyramids, given that it seems likely from Ed's answers that the pyramids were created either in preparation for or in response to Karsus' attempt to take control of the Weave? More information on the dire oaks as a species might shed more light on this; I look forward to hearing from Ed on that one.

Anyway, I need to see what else I can dig up in the published lore to which I have access. I'll keep this scroll updated with any other interesting bits I find.

Edit: I suspect (from the text quoted above) that part of what makes the dire oaks unique is their nourishment from the blood of Karsus' avatar. Hrm... something else just occurred to me about this too... the lich Wulgreth (the one who lives in the black pyramid in Karse) needs to drink the blood of Karsus to transcend to a non-undead immortal existence... so why did he never just go to the site of Karsus' heart and collect some of that everflowing blood? Even if avatar blood wasn't good enough, the deity's heart is right there too. Unless the avatar still has enough power at this time to keep a lich as powerful as Wulgreth at a safe distance... Curiouser and curiouser...

Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.

If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic.

Edited by - Jakk on 16 Apr 2010 02:09:23
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WarlockII
Seeker

50 Posts

Posted - 16 Apr 2010 :  07:23:26  Show Profile  Visit WarlockII's Homepage Send WarlockII a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Quale
The Magar's Hill (etymology from ''maghs'') pyramid(s)in Amn.



Pyramid in Amn?

Tell me more :)
This I can use

(like the location most of all)

Edited by - WarlockII on 16 Apr 2010 07:28:22
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31701 Posts

Posted - 16 Apr 2010 :  08:25:56  Show Profile Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by WarlockII

quote:
Originally posted by Quale
The Magar's Hill (etymology from ''maghs'') pyramid(s)in Amn.



Pyramid in Amn?

Tell me more :)
This I can use

(like the location most of all)

I'm not anywhere near my books at the moment, but I'm thinking [off-hand] that Quale *might* be referring to the aerial pyramid of Shangalar the Black, which was said to be floating over the Marching Mountains in Lands of Intrigue, as I recall.

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rjfras
Learned Scribe

261 Posts

Posted - 16 Apr 2010 :  17:28:26  Show Profile  Visit rjfras's Homepage Send rjfras a Private Message  Reply with Quote
From LoI
quote:
The names of the elven clans were found on a plinth in the hills northeast of Eshpurta in Amn. The plinth was hidden within the forest until dragonfire burned away the glade in which it stood. The 18-foot-high plinth is wide and triangular, with drawings and what appears to be strange writing on each of its three faces. The plinth rests at the center of a dead-magic area. The curvings on the plinth are confusing lines unless viewed from above, where they reveal a map of the three forests of the time. The elvish writing, readable from above, names the elf clans and which forest they entered. The plinth is known locally by humans as the "Pyramid of Magar's Hill" and by elves as the "Stone of Clans' Parting." About 800 years ago, Thennaris Trollbann became the first human scholar to deduce the Pyramid's secret and record it in his diaries (now kept at Candlkeep). -H


and

quote:
Shangalar the Black: (LE tiefling male lich W27) A mage of Calimshan circa 700 years ago, Shangalar's meteoric rise in power left many wondering if he was a scion of gods. In fact, he is the son of a Realms-bound cambion. As a mage of great power but little ambition, he was perfect for Rysellan and Rhangaun as a manipulable ally with power that simply needs direction. As a tiefling, his undead status is unique, and his skin (once of normal Calishite tone) is jet-black and calcifying to a flintlike substance, accounting for his high Armor Class.

He is so paranoid that he killed anyone who found his hidden keep, a floating aerial pyramid among the peaks of the Marching Mountains east of the River of Ice's headwaters. During the Time of Troubles, the magic of his lair failed and it crashed, ruining centuries of work and reducing his own power after some of his extraplanar experiments exploded. These losses have made Shangalar more interested and active in restoring both his own and the Rune's overall power.
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rjfras
Learned Scribe

261 Posts

Posted - 16 Apr 2010 :  19:52:34  Show Profile  Visit rjfras's Homepage Send rjfras a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Jakk

That's all. Oh... one other little detail... the remains of Karsus' petrified corpse are described in multiple sources as being red-hued stone... would this be the same shade of red as those pyramids?


quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One


Question 3: Don't think so.


THO




My original theory (that the pyramids were constructed from stone quarried from the petrified giant body of Karsus) was neat, too. Thinking about it, even a stone corpse that size wouldn't have enough stone to build thirteen pyramids... is the size of those pyramids under NDA? I don't remember seeing anything about how big they are in published lore. (Size of pyramids; Question #2.)





But LEoF does say

quote:
The ruins of Ascore are most notable for thirteen pyramids
of unknown origin. These structures are made of an unusual
red stone not unlike the bleeding stone of Karse.


not unlike? If it wasn't constructed from Karse, where else can said stone be found? Are there any other buildings or structures constructed of same said material?
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Jakk
Great Reader

Canada
2165 Posts

Posted - 16 Apr 2010 :  21:59:38  Show Profile Send Jakk a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by rjfras


But LEoF does say

quote:
The ruins of Ascore are most notable for thirteen pyramids
of unknown origin. These structures are made of an unusual
red stone not unlike the bleeding stone of Karse.


not unlike? If it wasn't constructed from Karse, where else can said stone be found? Are there any other buildings or structures constructed of same said material?



Hrm... I missed this reference... and I don't recall any mention of another source for said material... another question for Ed, unless any other scribes have found anything in their researches...

Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.

If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic.
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rjfras
Learned Scribe

261 Posts

Posted - 16 Apr 2010 :  23:34:55  Show Profile  Visit rjfras's Homepage Send rjfras a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Damn you Jakk, you've got me hooked into this now as well... lol...

quote:
Originally posted by Jakk

quote:
Originally posted by rjfras


But LEoF does say

quote:
The ruins of Ascore are most notable for thirteen pyramids
of unknown origin. These structures are made of an unusual
red stone not unlike the bleeding stone of Karse.


not unlike? If it wasn't constructed from Karse, where else can said stone be found? Are there any other buildings or structures constructed of same said material?



Hrm... I missed this reference... and I don't recall any mention of another source for said material... another question for Ed, unless any other scribes have found anything in their researches...



Actually it's repeated almost verbatim again on pg 135 of Anauroch the Empire of Shade



but aside from that... i've got another question...

does anyone know anything more about the legendary pyramid-shaped tear of Ascore artifact mentioned in Champions of Ruin, believed to be currently held by the lich Aumvor?
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WarlockII
Seeker

50 Posts

Posted - 17 Apr 2010 :  01:19:33  Show Profile  Visit WarlockII's Homepage Send WarlockII a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by rjfras

From LoI
quote:
The names of the elven clans were found on a plinth in the hills northeast of Eshpurta in Amn. The plinth was hidden within the forest until dragonfire burned away the glade in which it stood. The 18-foot-high plinth is wide and triangular, with drawings and what appears to be strange writing on each of its three faces. The plinth rests at the center of a dead-magic area. The curvings on the plinth are confusing lines unless viewed from above, where they reveal a map of the three forests of the time. The elvish writing, readable from above, names the elf clans and which forest they entered. The plinth is known locally by humans as the "Pyramid of Magar's Hill" and by elves as the "Stone of Clans' Parting." About 800 years ago, Thennaris Trollbann became the first human scholar to deduce the Pyramid's secret and record it in his diaries (now kept at Candlkeep). -H


and

quote:
Shangalar the Black: (LE tiefling male lich W27) A mage of Calimshan circa 700 years ago, Shangalar's meteoric rise in power left many wondering if he was a scion of gods. In fact, he is the son of a Realms-bound cambion. As a mage of great power but little ambition, he was perfect for Rysellan and Rhangaun as a manipulable ally with power that simply needs direction. As a tiefling, his undead status is unique, and his skin (once of normal Calishite tone) is jet-black and calcifying to a flintlike substance, accounting for his high Armor Class.

He is so paranoid that he killed anyone who found his hidden keep, a floating aerial pyramid among the peaks of the Marching Mountains east of the River of Ice's headwaters. During the Time of Troubles, the magic of his lair failed and it crashed, ruining centuries of work and reducing his own power after some of his extraplanar experiments exploded. These losses have made Shangalar more interested and active in restoring both his own and the Rune's overall power.


and: does anyone know anything more about the legendary pyramid-shaped tear of Ascore artifact mentioned in Champions of Ruin, believed to be currently held by the lich Aumvor?



Many thanks Rjfras. This may very well be worth incorperating into my campaign.

(I'm going with the: the 5 sided pyramids were made for trapping stuff inside it.)

the reasoning if anyone wishes to know: After Karsus's folly, the empire collapsed, I imagin an empire of that magnitude had some pretty powerful outsiders as minions and manipulators. It's very likely some of these got demasked in the struggle for what was left. I assume the pyramids were built during this time, as a means to remove some key "players" from this struggle. If the pyramids exist other places I assume it's the same principal magic for imprisonment of some kind.


I second that!: what is this artifact?

Edited by - WarlockII on 17 Apr 2010 01:21:57
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Jakk
Great Reader

Canada
2165 Posts

Posted - 17 Apr 2010 :  02:15:53  Show Profile Send Jakk a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Okay... this theory is open to revision or wholesale replacement pending the answers of some recent questions posed to Ed, but here's what I'm thinking so far based on answers so far gained from Ed and discussion with other scribes...

1) The pyramids were built by the followers of Karsus using most of the stone from his colossal petrified (but not-quite-dead) corpse.

2) Whether deliberately or not, the pyramids acted as a huge arcane focus, imprisoning the divine essence of Karsus; this is why he still has a living avatar in Faerun as described in FR5 (as quoted above).

3) The ring of 13 dire oaks (surrounding the black pyramid? both the description and the map are unclear) are tied to the red pyramids; killing or chopping down one tree in this ring causes its corresponding red pyramid to collapse. The dire oaks are very difficult to kill; I'm hoping for some more information from Ed regarding the specifics of their nature, but I'm leaning toward total spell immunity, extreme hardness rating, and 20/epic DR.

4) When all 13 trees are killed and their pyramids have collapsed, the full divine essence of Karsus rejoins his avatar, which undergoes apotheosis and ascends as the lesser deity (or demipower) of magical hubris. Karsus' first actions as a reborn deity will depend on the state of Anauroch in your campaign.

4a) If the phaerimm are still around and the sharn wall still exists, Karsus telepathically communicates to the sharn knowledge of an epic arcane cooperative spell that allows the sharn to forcibly assimilate the remaining Anauroch phaerimm into the sharn wall, making the entire population part of the sharnstuff.

4b) If the phaerimm are still around and have been released by the breaching of the sharn wall, Karsus communicates to the sharn knowledge of a different epic arcane spell that transforms a targeted phaerimm back into the creature it was originally (if someone can help me identify the canon source I'm trying to remember here, it would be greatly appreciated; I'm not finding it now, but it's the same source that discusses the origin of the sharn).

4c) If the phaerimm have been exterminated by the shades (canon?), Karsus is at his most dangerous. He's still a Netherese arcanist at heart, as are the shades, and he's not happy about his failure to prevent the fall of his empire seventeen centuries earlier (assuming this is taking place in the late 1300s DR). With the phaerimm gone, Karsus needs someone or something to vent his wrath on, and there are a variety of candidates. He does not recognize the shades of Thultanthar as his people, because of the great changes wrought in them by Shar and the shadowstuff. He may also feel that the sharn could have acted more overtly against the phaerimm and prevented the lifedrain that destroyed his land. If he learns that Ioulaum and/or Larloch still exist, look out Faerūn! Beyond this, I need to do some more pondering, and other DMs are encouraged to do the same.

Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.

If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic.

Edited by - Jakk on 17 Apr 2010 15:51:29
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31701 Posts

Posted - 17 Apr 2010 :  02:18:31  Show Profile Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by rjfras

does anyone know anything more about the legendary pyramid-shaped tear of Ascore artifact mentioned in Champions of Ruin, believed to be currently held by the lich Aumvor?
It's a Sith Holocron.

[Aumvor always did remind me of a Sith Lord from the "Golden Age of the Sith" era]

...

Seriously, I don't immediately recall any further lore on the tear of Ascore. It might simply have been another fine Eric Boyd-creation made up for Aumvor's entry in CoR.

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"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

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Edited by - The Sage on 17 Apr 2010 02:20:28
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Jakk
Great Reader

Canada
2165 Posts

Posted - 03 May 2010 :  22:19:42  Show Profile Send Jakk a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I like the idea of the tear of Ascore being associated with the pyramids somehow... if, as I suspect, the pyramids are tied to Karsus somehow, perhaps the tear of Ascore is some sort of focus for the true function of the big pyramids, whatever that may be...

Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.

If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic.
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Quale
Master of Realmslore

1757 Posts

Posted - 04 May 2010 :  11:53:17  Show Profile Send Quale a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Jakk

Interesting idea, Quale... is Dragon 338 the only source for the spellweavers, or are they mentioned elsewhere in canon?


There is a nest of spellweavers in Barakuir (Underdark), allied with the gold dwarves.

Only other connection I can think of is Jergal, who was possibly a spellweaver (Age of Worms).

And those hooded mages of Nimbral are called spell weavers, but that's really speculating.

Edited by - Quale on 04 May 2010 11:54:24
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The Sage
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Australia
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Posted - 04 May 2010 :  14:52:51  Show Profile Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Jakk

Interesting idea, Quale... is Dragon 338 the only source for the spellweavers, or are they mentioned elsewhere in canon?
There's also the spell weaver entry in 3.5e Monster Manual II.

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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
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Posted - 04 May 2010 :  14:54:49  Show Profile Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Quale

Only other connection I can think of is Jergal, who was possibly a spellweaver (Age of Worms).
Note, however, that Eric's DUNGEON #130 web supplement isn't actually Realms canon. Thus, Jergal as a spellweaver isn't canon in the Realms either. It's merely a possibility offered by Eric Boyd for his "Age of Worms" conversion notes.

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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5055 Posts

Posted - 04 May 2010 :  15:47:38  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Jakk, re. the dire oaks: not spell immunity, but spell REFLECTION.
Ed hasn't shown me those notes, but a girl sometimes snoops...
love,
THO
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Jakk
Great Reader

Canada
2165 Posts

Posted - 06 May 2010 :  23:36:03  Show Profile Send Jakk a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ooooh! Thank you, milady Hooded One! Two more questions for you, if I may:

1) Can you share your suspicions as to the purpose of this ring of dire oaks, or do you know the [presumably NDA'd] truth of the matter?

2) If you are able to speculate on the previous question, what are your thoughts concerning the connection Ed hints at between the ring of dire oaks and the pyramids of Ascore?

I suspect I may ask too many questions... 'tis a better character flaw than some, I believe...

Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.

If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic.
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore

Brazil
1589 Posts

Posted - 22 Jun 2010 :  13:36:44  Show Profile Send Barastir a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I may be dreadfully wrong, but weren't the ruins of Ascore the basis for the mummy adventure in 1st edition Lord of Darkness?

If this is the case, the central pyramid is the home of a reptilian (later known as Sarrukh) greater mummy, surrounded by common mummies that were created by the elves of Evereska, if I recall properly, to somehow impede someone to release that ancient evil into the world.

"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."

The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood)
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Jakk
Great Reader

Canada
2165 Posts

Posted - 22 Jun 2010 :  17:29:11  Show Profile Send Jakk a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks for that tip, Barastir! I'll have to see if I have LoD in PDF now... IIRC, isn't it one of the titles available for free download at WotC?

Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.

If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic.
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Jakk
Great Reader

Canada
2165 Posts

Posted - 22 Jun 2010 :  17:43:33  Show Profile Send Jakk a Private Message  Reply with Quote
1. Yes, I have LoD in PDF.

2. No, Ascore is not the location. The notes following the adventure talk about Ascore, but the Crypt of Hssthak is somewhere else. I believe it's marked on one of Markustay's maps, IIRC...

3. The Evereskan elven mummies mentioned in the adventure are not the same as the mummies described in later lore, which suggests that the elves underwent the process knowingly and willingly to protect Faerun from the evil of Hssthak. If this is the case, they would not attack elves out of hand, nor would they attack anyone who seeks to completely destroy the sarrukh mummy.

Anyway, it was a good memory-refresher for me; off I go again to bounce myself repeatedly off another NDA... or maybe I'll just collate and organize some of my homebrew Realmslore instead. That sounds less painful.

Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.

If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic.
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore

Brazil
1589 Posts

Posted - 22 Jun 2010 :  18:54:39  Show Profile Send Barastir a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
No, Ascore is not the location. The notes following the adventure talk about Ascore, but the Crypt of Hssthak is somewhere else. I believe it's marked on one of Markustay's maps, IIRC...


I've checked my own PDF and realized it some minutes after posting... I forgot I had a copy in my pendrive. Where can I find Markustay's maps, by the way. Are they available?

quote:

The Evereskan elven mummies mentioned in the adventure are not the same as the mummies described in later lore, which suggests that the elves underwent the process knowingly and willingly to protect Faerun from the evil of Hssthak. If this is the case, they would not attack elves out of hand, nor would they attack anyone who seeks to completely destroy the sarrukh mummy.


I had the same understanding, but reading again, it seemed like the elves turned some of their own people into mummies using the rituals described in the pyramid, as a last resort. That explains why the mummy elves became a bit insane, and regretful of the transformation undergone, and why they hate and attack living elves. Remember that normal mummies had low intelligence in the earlier editions, dunno how it is now. Probably it's a normal reflection of their decaying proccess.

Besides, if the mummies are a menace to anyone that gets close to the Sarrukh, in a way they are avoiding either its realease AND its destruction...

Since it's not my intention to sidetrack the post, let me make a question that will bring the original issue back. When Karsus tried the ritual that caused the fall of Netheril, he was changed to stone, right?

All of his body was transformed, back then? The stone blocks of the Ascore pyramids are the same color of the "Heart of Karsus" found in the High Forest, right? I thought maybe the stone was red-hued cause it was originally his heart... How big Karsus was when he was turned to stone? Big enough for someone to build thirteen pyramids with his body's originated rocks?

"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."

The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood)

Edited by - Barastir on 23 Jun 2010 15:06:26
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Ionik Knight
Learned Scribe

USA
222 Posts

Posted - 07 Sep 2010 :  01:14:42  Show Profile  Visit Ionik Knight's Homepage Send Ionik Knight a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I found something, a walkthrough of one of FR PC games, in this game the players use the pyramids as a giant powersource to kill off a horde.

http://c64.tin.at/gateway_to_the_savage_frontier/gateway_to_the_savage_frontier.sol.htm

I'm not liking this as an explanation for the pyramids...maybe as a side effect.

Fools to right of them,
Jesters to left of them,
Clowns in front of them
Pun'd and parody'd.
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Ionik Knight
Learned Scribe

USA
222 Posts

Posted - 07 Sep 2010 :  01:29:34  Show Profile  Visit Ionik Knight's Homepage Send Ionik Knight a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Anyone know what scale the Ruins of Ascore map is Savage Frontier is? Looking at it I'ld guess each is the size of building..say 2000 square feet at the base?

Fools to right of them,
Jesters to left of them,
Clowns in front of them
Pun'd and parody'd.
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Jakk
Great Reader

Canada
2165 Posts

Posted - 10 Sep 2010 :  00:07:49  Show Profile Send Jakk a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Barastir

<chop>

Since it's not my intention to sidetrack the post, let me make a question that will bring the original issue back. When Karsus tried the ritual that caused the fall of Netheril, he was changed to stone, right?

All of his body was transformed, back then? The stone blocks of the Ascore pyramids are the same color of the "Heart of Karsus" found in the High Forest, right? I thought maybe the stone was red-hued cause it was originally his heart... How big Karsus was when he was turned to stone? Big enough for someone to build thirteen pyramids with his body's originated rocks?



That's my theory (see above)... but I'd love to know what Ed came up with, and that's not going to happen without a D&DI project regarding them. I'm curious as to the nature of the original project that invoked the NDA in the first place, and what happened to it.

Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.

If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic.
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore

Brazil
1589 Posts

Posted - 16 Sep 2010 :  13:36:05  Show Profile Send Barastir a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
That's my theory (see above)...


I know, but my question was if only the heart would be red-hued (hair could be golden or black, skin would be white-yellow, and so on).

Another question was if you think Karsus turned into a really giant stone being, for it seems that he should be very big indeed to have 13 entire pyramids constructed from his single body.

"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."

The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood)
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Quale
Master of Realmslore

1757 Posts

Posted - 17 Sep 2010 :  09:35:50  Show Profile Send Quale a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Maybe his whole enclave, including the reversed mountain, turned into this stone.
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twyoung1960
Acolyte

USA
1 Posts

Posted - 15 May 2012 :  21:10:20  Show Profile Send twyoung1960 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So how does that go with The Seven Swords of Wayland?

Nathanial Blish
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