Candlekeep Forum
Candlekeep Forum
Home | Profile | Register | Active Topics | Active Polls | Members | Private Messages | Search | FAQ
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

 All Forums
 Realmslore
 Sages of Realmslore
 Pyramids under Ascore
 New Topic  New Poll New Poll
 Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Previous Page | Next Page
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic
Page: of 8

Jakk
Great Reader

Canada
2165 Posts

Posted - 01 Sep 2009 :  05:08:20  Show Profile Send Jakk a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje



Villians Lorebook from 2e and The Night Parade novel by Scott Ciencin.



Hrm... Villains Lorebook doesn't mention the Netherese or the origins of the Night Parade at all... anyone know if this is something that's covered in the novel? Thanks! Yeah, I know it took me a while to look this up; other Realms projects and real life conspire to keep me behaving like headless poultry...

Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.

If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic.
Go to Top of Page

Thauramarth
Senior Scribe

United Kingdom
653 Posts

Posted - 01 Sep 2009 :  07:31:26  Show Profile Send Thauramarth a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Jakk

quote:
Originally posted by Kuje



Villians Lorebook from 2e and The Night Parade novel by Scott Ciencin.



Hrm... Villains Lorebook doesn't mention the Netherese or the origins of the Night Parade at all... anyone know if this is something that's covered in the novel? Thanks! Yeah, I know it took me a while to look this up; other Realms projects and real life conspire to keep me behaving like headless poultry...


The novel does not mention the origin of the Night Parade, other than they came from another plane.

My original guess for the Netherse origin was that the it was "created/Retconned" for 3E to take into account the self-contained, but as it turns out Cloak and Dagger already mentioned the Netherese origin. I've never been entirely happy with the Netherese "being here, being there, being everywhere", so I've always cheerfully ignored this. Which is convenient, since, given that pre-1385 DR history is now set in stone and not subject to new lore and changes, I've started to change old Realms history, including some big changes to Netherese history (result still being the same - Phaerimm and Karsus wipe out Netheril), but events running up to it are changed - big time.

Club Secretary of the Dragons on the Hill RPG Club of London, UK: http://dragonsonthehill.co.uk/.
Go to Top of Page

Quale
Master of Realmslore

1755 Posts

Posted - 02 Sep 2009 :  09:28:31  Show Profile Send Quale a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I also don't like that the Netherese are responsible for everything, but I like the origin from the Demiplane of Nightmares as that place is too neglected (diaboli ).

Edit: Nice description of the Night Parade and its history can be found in Bestiary of the Realms 2.

Edit 2: Now that I've read the thread, to be on topic, I've used Ascore as a part of a planar campaign, and I didn't like the idea of a trapped great evil, there's nothing more cliche than that. Need to check my notes, the theory doesn't respect canon much tough.

Edited by - Quale on 02 Sep 2009 16:25:01
Go to Top of Page

Quale
Master of Realmslore

1755 Posts

Posted - 02 Sep 2009 :  23:59:30  Show Profile Send Quale a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The story ...

The pyramids of Ascore were built shortly after the Sundering (c. -24 000 DR) by a group of human, northmen maghs. They worked their elemental arcana trying to temper the catastrophic effects of the Alfar ritual that destroyed their great island in the far north, seriously injured the world and disrupted the balanced flow of Skein (Weave) energies. The pyramids were placed at the great gatherings of this mystical energy that invigorated Uthera (Chauntea). These Askar were the meeting places of the linnorm currents, core ley line conduits of whose utility their shamans learned long ago through ritualistic communion with the norn fey spirits. Along with the disturbance of the natural cycles there existed a threat of Hawoek, the reality of conflict and obliteration (imagine it like Abyss, Blood Rift and Golarion's Abaddon plane merged together) began to seep in.

The pyramids were organized according to the primary rune, the Amber Spiral. 13 five-angled pyramids (13 and 5 belong to the Fibonacci sequence) formed a Golden Mean pattern of etheric vortexes, optimally accumulating and emiting the Skein waves. The balance of energies is crucial for health and healing, It was like giving an acupuncture to a world. 5 was the sacred rune, in their arcana, the alchemical fifth element is the man, the race of destiny. Psionics were used in the construction of the pyramids and the tuning of the crystals. The megalithic lore came from the fey who build Megaliths (from Mystaran Immortals book) during the Age of the First Sun to change the nature of time. Now I'm digressing too much into homebrew. Anyway it was all fine for a while, only a few daemonic proto-cysts from Hawoek formed in Uthera's body (particularly sensitive part, the Bloodstone Lands). Maghs scattered among many human tribes, most of their knowledge distorted and evolved into other traditions of arcana over the ages. Through elemental alchemy some became giants and titans and perished in conflicts with gods. Much later dwarves of Delzoun found this place and reconizing its exceptional natural beauty built a city there.

The fall of Netheril damaged some of the pyramid complexes. A lot of daemoncysts and actual planar rifts appeared in Narfell (grew in power) and towards the pole creating the Demonlands. An eastern colony of Delzoun in the Tortured Lands became the realm of the chaos dwarves. The pyramids of Ascore turned red (violet is their ideal color, work best at the highest spectral frequency) and started ''leaking'' Skein essences, pretty close to collapsing. This was the time when great evil appeared in Ascore, the phaerimm. For them this stuff is like a god-nectar, they become like near mindless junkies around it, reduced to basic instincts. That includes territoriality, ironically the phaerimm have become Ascore's great protectors.

On the other side in the plane of Scyrnel (the Elemental Core), there's Vendulf, once a skalfen (of the Black Lions) warlorld of the Savage Frontier (basically Uthgar with portfolios of protection, guardianship, safety, vigilance, territory, wards, runes, honor, duty, clan, brotherhood, skill-at-arms, mists) whose petitioners fight a glorious battle in the misty, etherial, barrow-realm of Vendelheim against the never-ending hordes of Hawoek, trying to break into the real(er) world.

Go to Top of Page

Jakk
Great Reader

Canada
2165 Posts

Posted - 03 Sep 2009 :  00:48:57  Show Profile Send Jakk a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Very cool storyline, Quale! As a community, I think we've been individually very creative in explaining this great mystery of Realmslore... and it makes me no less intrigued as to what Ed's (NDA'd) take on them is. All I really know from my exchange with Ed is, they are not related to either the Shadevari or the Skullport skulls. That's all I could get out of him, so this NDA is solid.

I'm also curious as to what the possible effects of the Spellplague on these pyramids would be... they're definitely magical, after all...

Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.

If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic.
Go to Top of Page

Jakk
Great Reader

Canada
2165 Posts

Posted - 03 Sep 2009 :  03:35:37  Show Profile Send Jakk a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Thauramarth

The novel does not mention the origin of the Night Parade, other than they came from another plane.

My original guess for the Netherse origin was that the it was "created/Retconned" for 3E to take into account the self-contained, but as it turns out Cloak and Dagger already mentioned the Netherese origin. I've never been entirely happy with the Netherese "being here, being there, being everywhere", so I've always cheerfully ignored this. Which is convenient, since, given that pre-1385 DR history is now set in stone and not subject to new lore and changes, I've started to change old Realms history, including some big changes to Netherese history (result still being the same - Phaerimm and Karsus wipe out Netheril), but events running up to it are changed - big time.


I almost missed this! Any chance of sharing with your fellow scribes? Please?

Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.

If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic.
Go to Top of Page

Quale
Master of Realmslore

1755 Posts

Posted - 03 Sep 2009 :  09:45:41  Show Profile Send Quale a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Jakk

Very cool storyline, Quale! As a community, I think we've been individually very creative in explaining this great mystery of Realmslore... and it makes me no less intrigued as to what Ed's (NDA'd) take on them is. All I really know from my exchange with Ed is, they are not related to either the Shadevari or the Skullport skulls. That's all I could get out of him, so this NDA is solid.

I'm also curious as to what the possible effects of the Spellplague on these pyramids would be... they're definitely magical, after all...



Thanks, hope my homebrew terms-stuff isn't too confusing.

Forgot to mention, there are a few known pyramidal complexes like Ascore, tough they had a different history. There's Karse (from Askar) in the High Forest. The main pyramid is black, neatly sealed by heavy magic (a fortunate side-effect of Karsus's random experiments). And there are the bloodforges in the Utter East. Ever wondered why there are some northmen there . The Magar's Hill (etymology from ''maghs'') pyramid(s)in Amn. In Bezantur there's a daemonic temple to Septice (similar to Golarion's Apollyon, the archdaemon of pestilence, canonically it's Jubilex's temple), way older than believed. They call it Uthera's Thorn and its purpose is being like an anti-pyramid.

The Spellplague effects, I never considered it for this campaign. I guess it would cause some of the complexes to overload, maybe blow up, creating new daemoncysts and planar rifts, ripping the prime reality further apart, nature itself would become malicious and self-destructive, I don't know, bees would die out, stillborn and daemonic-tainted babies... That's not really original, roll a wild magic table. My ''Spellplagues'' happen in the past so there's room for growing and developing an idea, making consistency. Not all jumbled up with RSEs at the same time making wonder how does this world managed to survive. Spellplagues should have happen retroactively, like irregularities and disturbances in time, overwriting and creating a better FR dimension.

Shadevari, that wasn't really an option for Ascore, I play them as weak creatures, the muliverse grew and evolved, and they stayed the same, (a)pathetic. And Shar (called Nocs) in my homebrew is not really evil, more alien and unaligned.
Go to Top of Page

Jorkens
Great Reader

Norway
2950 Posts

Posted - 03 Sep 2009 :  10:18:23  Show Profile Send Jorkens a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Thauramarth

quote:
Originally posted by Jakk

quote:
Originally posted by Kuje



Villians Lorebook from 2e and The Night Parade novel by Scott Ciencin.



Hrm... Villains Lorebook doesn't mention the Netherese or the origins of the Night Parade at all... anyone know if this is something that's covered in the novel? Thanks! Yeah, I know it took me a while to look this up; other Realms projects and real life conspire to keep me behaving like headless poultry...


The novel does not mention the origin of the Night Parade, other than they came from another plane.

My original guess for the Netherse origin was that the it was "created/Retconned" for 3E to take into account the self-contained, but as it turns out Cloak and Dagger already mentioned the Netherese origin. I've never been entirely happy with the Netherese "being here, being there, being everywhere", so I've always cheerfully ignored this. Which is convenient, since, given that pre-1385 DR history is now set in stone and not subject to new lore and changes, I've started to change old Realms history, including some big changes to Netherese history (result still being the same - Phaerimm and Karsus wipe out Netheril), but events running up to it are changed - big time.



You mean that in your game the netherese were not obvious Gillan-fans?

I agree completely with this. Ever since the Slade version of the Netherese came out I have ignored the canon version of the empire. The bits I got from Elminster's Ecology always gave me more idea and inspiration for the ancient mages. I never liked the idea that the ancient history of the Realms should be to detailed, a loose outline is better when running a campaign and trying to envision the Realms for yourself.

The same goes for the Nightparade (my favourite non-Ed Realms novel), the idea that they were Netherese was one more I have happily ignored (and actually forgotten).
Go to Top of Page

Thauramarth
Senior Scribe

United Kingdom
653 Posts

Posted - 03 Sep 2009 :  14:54:17  Show Profile Send Thauramarth a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Jakk

quote:
Originally posted by Thauramarth

The novel does not mention the origin of the Night Parade, other than they came from another plane.

My original guess for the Netherse origin was that the it was "created/Retconned" for 3E to take into account the self-contained, but as it turns out Cloak and Dagger already mentioned the Netherese origin. I've never been entirely happy with the Netherese "being here, being there, being everywhere", so I've always cheerfully ignored this. Which is convenient, since, given that pre-1385 DR history is now set in stone and not subject to new lore and changes, I've started to change old Realms history, including some big changes to Netherese history (result still being the same - Phaerimm and Karsus wipe out Netheril), but events running up to it are changed - big time.


I almost missed this! Any chance of sharing with your fellow scribes? Please?



It's probably not for everybody's taste, and still a bit fuzzy (but that's OK for my game, since the changes do not alter the present gaming setting too much, i.e., around 1350 / 1360 DR). Basically, in my Realms, around -500 DR, the human lands of western Faerūn were carved up between three empires:

* Calim empire, spanning current-day Calimshan, Amn, Tethyr. This is, to a large extent, the Shoon empire, which would have to be advanced in the timeline with regard to its place in the official GHotR timeline, but similar ideas. The Calim empire is still the most ancient empire in existence, with considerable influence from elemental extraplanar beings. It used to be a rival of the Imaskari empire (which was also different from the canon version);
* Netheril - still an empire of mages, but probably more decadent, and more centralized, in a way. Some inspiration drawn from ancient Rome (for the general ambiance and political organisation) and Alphatia (from OD&D / Known World / Mystara) - an imperial court brimming with intrigue, with an emperor and the lot. The lands occupied by Netheril (the human lands stretching from the Sword Coast, across core Netheril, to the Great Glacier and the Moonsea lands) were once part of the Calim empire, but rebelled when the Calim empire has too much of its resources tied up in a war with Imaskar.
* Unther - including current-day Chessenta, Chondath, Turmish, the coastlands of present-day Sembia, and the southern Dragon Coast lands (Westgate being its westernmost outpost). Unther (despite everything a successor state of Imaskar) and Calim have been skirmishing for most of their existence, but neither has risked a major all-out war ever since the God-Kings beat back the Calim in the wake of the collapse of the Imaskari empire.

The Fields of the Dead form a buffer zone between Netheril and Calim; "Jhaamdath" (which, as a nation, never existed in my campaign) forms a buffer zone between Calim and Unther. There are other empires at the time: Mulhorand (stretching east and south), Narfell, and Raumathar.

Net result: during a struggle over the succession of the Netherese throne, one of the princes of Netheril flees to Calim, manipulates his way to the top of the Calim court, and provokes the Netherese into invading Calim lands (right into a trap laid by the renegade Prince). The counter-invasion almost brings Netheril to its knees, but this triggers a reaction by Unther (so now it's a three-way war). As the situation deteriorates for every side, everybody gets out the equivalent of nuclear weapons, triggering the desertification of Netheril, resulting in what is now Anauroch, and, ultimately, in Karssu trying for the Doomsday Weapon by trying to replace Mystryl. End result - Unther and Calim seriously weakened, as a large part of their armies are wiped out while they were going at each other on the fields of "Jhaamdath", when that bit of real estate was turned into the Vilhon Reach. Unther lost control over lands north of the Vilhon Reach (not enough troops to hold them); plagues force them to withdraw from Chondath. Calim is seriously weakened as the overwhelming majority of its armies are wiped out in Netheril and Jhaamdath.

Given the "epic war", I am also tempted to move the Narfell-Raumathar conflict around to coincide with this war, so that several major magical conflagrations occur at the same time. That would be one hell of an RSE.

In my campaign, Anauroch is more akin to a post-apocalyptic wasteland (no Bedine; I always thought those were out of place). In Anauroch time and space are distorted. There are areas (and not fixed and stable ones, either) where are far larger "on the inside" than they are on the map, similar to the Direwood in the High Forest. In some areas, there is "overlap" between the Prime Material Plane and other planes, in particular the Abyss. The chaotic environment has basically made all travel and caravan routes across Anauroch very dangerous, and near-impossible as a long-term solution, because although it is possible to find a way between the areas of dimensional distortion, the areas of stability, and the areas of distortion are not stable. The "recent history" will still include the Time of Troubles and, ironically, the ToT will stabilize Anauroch enough for the Zhents to be able to set up a stable caravan route through Anauroch.

I am not yet clear on the role of the Phaerimm and the Sharn in all this mess, but at present, my thoughts are something along these lines: the Phaerimm are still a race of powerful sorcerers (a lot of inspiration drawn from Xaeyruudh's work here), but basically isolationist with regard to the Netherese... until the Doomsday weapons deployed by the Netherese and the Calim started threatening their cosy caverns - so they retaliated with the lifedrain spells (whose effects are accelerated in comparison with canon). Combined with the spatial and temporal distortions caused by some of the Doomsday weapons (threatening to drag parts of Toril into the Lower Planes), and the sudden demise of Mystryl, the sharn intervene to raise a barrier to contain the fallout (limiting the expansion of Anauroch, and, incidentally, locking in all Phaerimm who happened to be in the area of effect, as the barrier also blocks any creatures that might try and come through the planar rifts).

As I said, it's probably not for everybody's taste. I like it, personally, because the history of my most successful (more like "least unsuccessful") attempt at world design had such a conflict at its core. I got a lot of inspiration from Robert E. Howard's Hyborian Age, from Greyhawk (the conflagrations!), Warhammer (my Anauroch is very similar to the Chaos Wastes, and apocalyptic use of magic), and some other sources I forgot. Of course, though I had some fun writing up the background, it had little use for direct gaming purposes (the present-day locales, etc.). I drifted away from that attempt to FR (which did not satisfy me on all levels, but which was a very playable world), and when the ancient history of the Realms was locked down, I made an attempt to get an alternate way to the same present (for me, the era of the Grey Box realms). Although I have made serious changes to the present-day Utter East, Zakhara, and some of the other continents, the change in history does not affect the present-day core Realms much. The only "canon" area that is seriously affected is Anauroch (no Bedine). Anauroch got limited coverage anyway (I never liked the placement of the Bedine in Anauroch much, either), so was easily changed.

There are probably some holes and inconsistencies in the whole write-up (e.g., what are the elven and dwarven kingdomes doing in the meanwhile?), but time and checking against the GHotR will probably solve that. And, importantly, the details do not matter for a game set in the Grey Box era (say, 1345DR-1357DR), because the current day Realms are not much affected. More intellectual spielerei than anything else.
Go to Top of Page

StarBog
Learned Scribe

United Kingdom
152 Posts

Posted - 16 Sep 2009 :  16:11:06  Show Profile  Visit StarBog's Homepage Send StarBog a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I can't remember if I mentioned this upthread (I recall asking about these a while back), but when I used the Ascore Pyramids last year in a campaign where the "something evil" was an immensely powerful former Netherese Lich (an associate of Karsus) who had taken up residence there.

The twist was that he had moved there in penance to Mystrl/Mystra as a result of his role in the original fall of Netheril. His "task" was to guard the 13 pyramids as they were one of several crucial "anchor points" for the Weave scattered over the surface of Toril.

My rationale for there being 13 of them, and the unusual colour/material they were made of was that was needed precisely to anchor the Weave!

The last act of my campaign was my players rushing back to Ascore with a macguffin needed to prevent the Shadovar accessing the Anchor point, the said Shadovar and their city having materialised a few days before directly above the pyramids.
Go to Top of Page

Jakk
Great Reader

Canada
2165 Posts

Posted - 20 Sep 2009 :  00:35:30  Show Profile Send Jakk a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks for sharing, Thauramarth! The "headless poultry" syndrome is still with me; but I have a four-day weekend to get my lore in better order to be shared. The pyramids have not been a topic of R&D, however; I'm working on points west of Evermeet (or where it used to be, in my Realms).

Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.

If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic.

Edited by - Jakk on 20 Sep 2009 00:36:01
Go to Top of Page

Quale
Master of Realmslore

1755 Posts

Posted - 28 Sep 2009 :  09:59:18  Show Profile Send Quale a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Another theory worth mentioning is the spellweavers, who left pyramidal alien ruins of their collapsed portal grid, it's believed that the Tortured Lands and the Fallen Lands have some (Dragon 338), they might be involved directly or as a prototype source of inspiration for the builders.
Go to Top of Page

Amarel Derakanor
Learned Scribe

97 Posts

Posted - 28 Sep 2009 :  10:20:01  Show Profile Send Amarel Derakanor a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Oh, I do love to read about 'hombrew' versions of the Realms!
Go to Top of Page

rjfras
Learned Scribe

261 Posts

Posted - 03 Apr 2010 :  14:21:10  Show Profile  Visit rjfras's Homepage Send rjfras a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

Hmm, I likely haven't been clear about this, so should be.

The "lore" that was cut out of LEoF regarding the pyramids at Ascore isn't NDA. It simply no longer exists. The designer who wrote that particular section of the book came up with some stuff on the pyramids. The chapter was heavily re-written and that material never saw the light of day. It wasn't edited out and kept in a locked box of FR lore tidbits, it essentially was over-written and no longer exists except in the first drafts of the product.

If you asked WotC to release the material they have on the pyramids of Ascore you would be met by very blank stares.

Oh, and it had nothing to do with Azuth or Shadevari.

-- George Krashos




I have to ask just to clarify. When you say that it had nothing to do with Azuth or Shadevari, you are referring to the "lore" that was written up by another designer for LEoF correct? So Ed's original purpose for the pyramids is still out there and valid canon-wise, right?
Go to Top of Page

Jakk
Great Reader

Canada
2165 Posts

Posted - 04 Apr 2010 :  03:37:32  Show Profile Send Jakk a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by rjfras

I have to ask just to clarify. When you say that it had nothing to do with Azuth or Shadevari, you are referring to the "lore" that was written up by another designer for LEoF correct? So Ed's original purpose for the pyramids is still out there and valid canon-wise, right?



As I understand it, yes... and it's lore that (along with other interesting stuff like the Cormyr Lineage and the Chosen of Mystryl) will likely never see the light of day, thanks to the time jump; the Spellplague in and of itself is not the problem here. Wizbro doesn't want to tell any stories set in the past, and all that old lore is still under NDA, so it's likely to remain there until Caina needs air conditioning.

Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.

If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic.
Go to Top of Page

Kno
Senior Scribe

452 Posts

Posted - 04 Apr 2010 :  12:16:39  Show Profile Send Kno a Private Message  Reply with Quote
In this case I think it's better NDA stays, look how many theories it inspired.

z455t
Go to Top of Page

Brimstone
Great Reader

USA
2893 Posts

Posted - 04 Apr 2010 :  13:51:01  Show Profile Send Brimstone a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Right!

We would probably be disappointed in what WotC did with it anyways. I would rather homebrew it. So if my version sucks. I have only myself to blame.

So what if any speculation can we have reguarding the Pyramids and the Imaskari?

"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep

Edited by - Brimstone on 04 Apr 2010 22:22:39
Go to Top of Page

Jakk
Great Reader

Canada
2165 Posts

Posted - 04 Apr 2010 :  20:02:20  Show Profile Send Jakk a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I understand your position, Kno and Brimstone, but (like you) I'm not interested in what WotC does with it; I'm interested in Ed's original purpose for them (see my post here from 03 Sep 2009). If the NDA gets lifted, that can be revealed. Apart from that, I'm totally on board with the homebrew solution. I have a rather interesting theory (or the beginnings of one) that includes George Krashos' revelation that the Shadevari and Azuth are not involved, so they are not the binding agents for the Shadevari; I need to track down a creation date for the pyramids first.

Re: Brimstone: Interesting idea, but I'm not sure that the Imaskari would be involved; Ascore is a bit far north for them. If any human society is involved, it's Netheril or their precursor state Seventon. Whether even that is accurate depends on exactly how long the pyramids have been there... which I hope to learn shortly.

Edit: I'm good at missing these small posts...
quote:
Originally posted by Quale

Another theory worth mentioning is the spellweavers, who left pyramidal alien ruins of their collapsed portal grid, it's believed that the Tortured Lands and the Fallen Lands have some (Dragon 338), they might be involved directly or as a prototype source of inspiration for the builders.


Interesting idea, Quale... is Dragon 338 the only source for the spellweavers, or are they mentioned elsewhere in canon?

Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.

If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic.

Edited by - Jakk on 04 Apr 2010 20:04:31
Go to Top of Page

Brimstone
Great Reader

USA
2893 Posts

Posted - 05 Apr 2010 :  09:25:37  Show Profile Send Brimstone a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Another question: wasn't that area Giant territory back in the day?

"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep
Go to Top of Page

George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
4853 Posts

Posted - 05 Apr 2010 :  15:53:24  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by rjfras
I have to ask just to clarify. When you say that it had nothing to do with Azuth or Shadevari, you are referring to the "lore" that was written up by another designer for LEoF correct? So Ed's original purpose for the pyramids is still out there and valid canon-wise, right?



Yes, I was referring to the lore created for LEoF and cut from that product.

But please note that Ed created Ascore. He did not create the pyramids there. These were an invention of Paul Jaquays in FR5 The Savage Frontier. In his usual "tidy up all those extraneous references and creations" manner, he no doubt can give you a lore-answer for what they are etc if he had to but he does not. He likes a mystery, does our Ed.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
Go to Top of Page

Alisttair
Great Reader

Canada
3054 Posts

Posted - 08 Apr 2010 :  15:08:11  Show Profile  Visit Alisttair's Homepage  Click to see Alisttair's MSN Messenger address Send Alisttair a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The pyramids were made by extra-terrestrial beings who flew away on ships...uhhh spelljamer ships...and come back to probe the current races of Faerun.

Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)

Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023
Go to Top of Page

Jakk
Great Reader

Canada
2165 Posts

Posted - 08 Apr 2010 :  22:31:01  Show Profile Send Jakk a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

<snip>
But please note that Ed created Ascore. He did not create the pyramids there. These were an invention of Paul Jaquays in FR5 The Savage Frontier. In his usual "tidy up all those extraneous references and creations" manner, he no doubt can give you a lore-answer for what they are etc if he had to but he does not. He likes a mystery, does our Ed.

-- George Krashos




From my sporadic bursts of research into these infernal pyramids, I can say without hesitation that yes, the pyramids are Ed's creation; I was briefly in touch with Paul about a year and a half ago with regard to those pyramids, and he was able to confirm (from Ed himself) that they were from Ed's original source material. Or, at least, that was Ed's answer to Paul, sent along to me at that time (30 Sept 2008). I like a good mystery too, but this is a mystery that I'd like my PCs to investigate when they get to an appropriate level, and I'd like to give them the answer that makes the most sense.

Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.

If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic.
Go to Top of Page

Jakk
Great Reader

Canada
2165 Posts

Posted - 08 Apr 2010 :  22:35:25  Show Profile Send Jakk a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone

Another question: wasn't that area Giant territory back in the day?



I believe it was, Brimstone. After reading BRJ's excellent piece of Realmslore on the formerly-NDA'd Ironfang Keep (yes, NDAs are mortal; they are just *very* hard to kill), I'm curious as to the locations (or former locations) of the other fortresses of Helligheim. Still, it would be interesting to see if there are any connections there... and an idea just struck me. Hang on; I need to check some sources.

Edit: Nope. The numbers don't add up without fudging, and it doesn't make sense, at least not without knowing how much of the giant creation story in "Giantcraft" (if any of it) is from Ed's original design.

Another idea: Ascore was a dwarven city before the Phaerimm dried up the Narrow Sea and created Anauroch... I don't think the pyramids are dwarven, but they may be phaerimm artifacts...

quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair

The pyramids were made by extra-terrestrial beings who flew away on ships...uhhh spelljamer ships...and come back to probe the current races of Faerun.



Erm... hasn't that been done before? But maybe Ed's a fan of Erich von Daniken... the idea is certainly intriguing...

Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.

If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic.

Edited by - Jakk on 08 Apr 2010 22:50:37
Go to Top of Page

George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
4853 Posts

Posted - 09 Apr 2010 :  05:46:46  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Jakk

quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

<snip>
But please note that Ed created Ascore. He did not create the pyramids there. These were an invention of Paul Jaquays in FR5 The Savage Frontier. In his usual "tidy up all those extraneous references and creations" manner, he no doubt can give you a lore-answer for what they are etc if he had to but he does not. He likes a mystery, does our Ed.

-- George Krashos




From my sporadic bursts of research into these infernal pyramids, I can say without hesitation that yes, the pyramids are Ed's creation; I was briefly in touch with Paul about a year and a half ago with regard to those pyramids, and he was able to confirm (from Ed himself) that they were from Ed's original source material. Or, at least, that was Ed's answer to Paul, sent along to me at that time (30 Sept 2008). I like a good mystery too, but this is a mystery that I'd like my PCs to investigate when they get to an appropriate level, and I'd like to give them the answer that makes the most sense.



Well, I'm happy to stand corrected. It's just that in FR1 they aren't mentioned. In FR5 they are. Have fun unravelling the 'mystery'.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
Go to Top of Page

Jakk
Great Reader

Canada
2165 Posts

Posted - 16 Apr 2010 :  01:54:51  Show Profile Send Jakk a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Okay, here's what I learned from Ed recently (my questions followed by Ed's answers):
quote:
Originally posted by Jakk

<chop>
I have one last question (a simple Yes or No) regarding the pyramids... er, two Yes-or-No questions (nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition except me):

1) Were the pyramids in Ascore present at the city's founding?
2) If not, were they present at any time before the fall of Mystryl and Karsus?

That's all. Oh... one other little detail... the remains of Karsus' petrified corpse are described in multiple sources as being red-hued stone... would this be the same shade of red as those pyramids?

Okay, I guess that's three... clearly, I count about as well as a red-clad Python.

Thank you again, Ed and THO, for your patience, your voice of reason, and (most of all) for being here for fans of the Realms.

Edit: Something just jumped out at me from the pages of FR5 in the write-up on Karse. A simple Yes, No, or NDA will be absolutely wonderful as an answer to this fourth question: is that ring of 13 dire oaks in Karse connected with the 13 pyramids of Ascore in any way? I have a theory... ...although the answer is irrelevant if my third question's answer is "No"...

quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One

Hi again, all.
<snip>
Jakk, here are a few answers, straight from Ed:

Question 1: No.
Question 2: No comment.
Question 3: Don't think so.
"Question 4" followup edit: I think so...yes...


Evil glee at the thought of your reactions, Jakk (sorry, I mustn't be cruel...)
love to all,
THO



Evil glee returned, THO... I have no idea "who" or "why" yet, but I have the beginnings of a "what"... I need to re-read the old lore in more detail. However, if I were to speculate right now, I would quote Wooly Rupert on Larloch; I suspect that what those pyramids are doing is containing something... hence the overwhelming radiant evil emanating therefrom... and as it turns out, my "Question 3" is irrelevant. That's Speculation #1.

My original theory (that the pyramids were constructed from stone quarried from the petrified giant body of Karsus) was neat, too. Thinking about it, even a stone corpse that size wouldn't have enough stone to build thirteen pyramids... is the size of those pyramids under NDA? I don't remember seeing anything about how big they are in published lore. (Size of pyramids; Question #2.)

I'm fairly confident (based on the relatively recent arrival of the pyramids) that they have nothing to do with the Shadevari (one of two other big "13"s I can think of, the other being the Skulls of Skullport, which I'm equally sure is another coincidence).

Many, many thanks for those answers, Ed, as cryptic as they were; they got my wheels turning and that's always a good thing. Now, of course, I'm wondering about those dire oaks, because I honestly had not expected a connection there... FR5 is somewhat lacking in details on this point, so is there anything you can share with us regarding that species of flora in general? (Question #3 and final.)



I have something else intriguing that I have not yet asked Ed about; it occurred to me on my walk home from work today. In FR5, the "Game Information" section of the description of the red stone butte near Karse reads as follows:
quote:
An avatar (minor physical manifestation) of the dying god Karsus dwells in a temple atop the butte, his everflowing blood contributing to the magical nature of the Dire Wood, while deep within the butte, Karsus's gigantic, living heart beats ponderously.

If this information is correct and current as of 1357 DR (given that it's a 1st-edition source and the ToT spans most of the year 1358), then Karsus was a living entity for at least 1700 years following Mystra's ascension. Any thoughts on what (if anything) this might have to do with the riddle of the pyramids, given that it seems likely from Ed's answers that the pyramids were created either in preparation for or in response to Karsus' attempt to take control of the Weave? More information on the dire oaks as a species might shed more light on this; I look forward to hearing from Ed on that one.

Anyway, I need to see what else I can dig up in the published lore to which I have access. I'll keep this scroll updated with any other interesting bits I find.

Edit: I suspect (from the text quoted above) that part of what makes the dire oaks unique is their nourishment from the blood of Karsus' avatar. Hrm... something else just occurred to me about this too... the lich Wulgreth (the one who lives in the black pyramid in Karse) needs to drink the blood of Karsus to transcend to a non-undead immortal existence... so why did he never just go to the site of Karsus' heart and collect some of that everflowing blood? Even if avatar blood wasn't good enough, the deity's heart is right there too. Unless the avatar still has enough power at this time to keep a lich as powerful as Wulgreth at a safe distance... Curiouser and curiouser...

Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.

If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic.

Edited by - Jakk on 16 Apr 2010 02:09:23
Go to Top of Page
Page: of 8 Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
Previous Page | Next Page
 New Topic  New Poll New Poll
 Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Jump To:
Candlekeep Forum © 1999-2017 Candlekeep.com Go To Top Of Page
Snitz Forums 2000