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WarlockII
Seeker

50 Posts

Posted - 16 Apr 2010 :  07:23:26  Show Profile  Visit WarlockII's Homepage Send WarlockII a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Quale
The Magar's Hill (etymology from ''maghs'') pyramid(s)in Amn.



Pyramid in Amn?

Tell me more :)
This I can use

(like the location most of all)

Edited by - WarlockII on 16 Apr 2010 07:28:22
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31690 Posts

Posted - 16 Apr 2010 :  08:25:56  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by WarlockII

quote:
Originally posted by Quale
The Magar's Hill (etymology from ''maghs'') pyramid(s)in Amn.



Pyramid in Amn?

Tell me more :)
This I can use

(like the location most of all)

I'm not anywhere near my books at the moment, but I'm thinking [off-hand] that Quale *might* be referring to the aerial pyramid of Shangalar the Black, which was said to be floating over the Marching Mountains in Lands of Intrigue, as I recall.

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rjfras
Learned Scribe

261 Posts

Posted - 16 Apr 2010 :  17:28:26  Show Profile  Visit rjfras's Homepage Send rjfras a Private Message  Reply with Quote
From LoI
quote:
The names of the elven clans were found on a plinth in the hills northeast of Eshpurta in Amn. The plinth was hidden within the forest until dragonfire burned away the glade in which it stood. The 18-foot-high plinth is wide and triangular, with drawings and what appears to be strange writing on each of its three faces. The plinth rests at the center of a dead-magic area. The curvings on the plinth are confusing lines unless viewed from above, where they reveal a map of the three forests of the time. The elvish writing, readable from above, names the elf clans and which forest they entered. The plinth is known locally by humans as the "Pyramid of Magar's Hill" and by elves as the "Stone of Clans' Parting." About 800 years ago, Thennaris Trollbann became the first human scholar to deduce the Pyramid's secret and record it in his diaries (now kept at Candlkeep). -H


and

quote:
Shangalar the Black: (LE tiefling male lich W27) A mage of Calimshan circa 700 years ago, Shangalar's meteoric rise in power left many wondering if he was a scion of gods. In fact, he is the son of a Realms-bound cambion. As a mage of great power but little ambition, he was perfect for Rysellan and Rhangaun as a manipulable ally with power that simply needs direction. As a tiefling, his undead status is unique, and his skin (once of normal Calishite tone) is jet-black and calcifying to a flintlike substance, accounting for his high Armor Class.

He is so paranoid that he killed anyone who found his hidden keep, a floating aerial pyramid among the peaks of the Marching Mountains east of the River of Ice's headwaters. During the Time of Troubles, the magic of his lair failed and it crashed, ruining centuries of work and reducing his own power after some of his extraplanar experiments exploded. These losses have made Shangalar more interested and active in restoring both his own and the Rune's overall power.
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rjfras
Learned Scribe

261 Posts

Posted - 16 Apr 2010 :  19:52:34  Show Profile  Visit rjfras's Homepage Send rjfras a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Jakk

That's all. Oh... one other little detail... the remains of Karsus' petrified corpse are described in multiple sources as being red-hued stone... would this be the same shade of red as those pyramids?


quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One


Question 3: Don't think so.


THO




My original theory (that the pyramids were constructed from stone quarried from the petrified giant body of Karsus) was neat, too. Thinking about it, even a stone corpse that size wouldn't have enough stone to build thirteen pyramids... is the size of those pyramids under NDA? I don't remember seeing anything about how big they are in published lore. (Size of pyramids; Question #2.)





But LEoF does say

quote:
The ruins of Ascore are most notable for thirteen pyramids
of unknown origin. These structures are made of an unusual
red stone not unlike the bleeding stone of Karse.


not unlike? If it wasn't constructed from Karse, where else can said stone be found? Are there any other buildings or structures constructed of same said material?
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Jakk
Great Reader

Canada
2165 Posts

Posted - 16 Apr 2010 :  21:59:38  Show Profile Send Jakk a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by rjfras


But LEoF does say

quote:
The ruins of Ascore are most notable for thirteen pyramids
of unknown origin. These structures are made of an unusual
red stone not unlike the bleeding stone of Karse.


not unlike? If it wasn't constructed from Karse, where else can said stone be found? Are there any other buildings or structures constructed of same said material?



Hrm... I missed this reference... and I don't recall any mention of another source for said material... another question for Ed, unless any other scribes have found anything in their researches...

Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.

If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic.
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rjfras
Learned Scribe

261 Posts

Posted - 16 Apr 2010 :  23:34:55  Show Profile  Visit rjfras's Homepage Send rjfras a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Damn you Jakk, you've got me hooked into this now as well... lol...

quote:
Originally posted by Jakk

quote:
Originally posted by rjfras


But LEoF does say

quote:
The ruins of Ascore are most notable for thirteen pyramids
of unknown origin. These structures are made of an unusual
red stone not unlike the bleeding stone of Karse.


not unlike? If it wasn't constructed from Karse, where else can said stone be found? Are there any other buildings or structures constructed of same said material?



Hrm... I missed this reference... and I don't recall any mention of another source for said material... another question for Ed, unless any other scribes have found anything in their researches...



Actually it's repeated almost verbatim again on pg 135 of Anauroch the Empire of Shade



but aside from that... i've got another question...

does anyone know anything more about the legendary pyramid-shaped tear of Ascore artifact mentioned in Champions of Ruin, believed to be currently held by the lich Aumvor?
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WarlockII
Seeker

50 Posts

Posted - 17 Apr 2010 :  01:19:33  Show Profile  Visit WarlockII's Homepage Send WarlockII a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by rjfras

From LoI
quote:
The names of the elven clans were found on a plinth in the hills northeast of Eshpurta in Amn. The plinth was hidden within the forest until dragonfire burned away the glade in which it stood. The 18-foot-high plinth is wide and triangular, with drawings and what appears to be strange writing on each of its three faces. The plinth rests at the center of a dead-magic area. The curvings on the plinth are confusing lines unless viewed from above, where they reveal a map of the three forests of the time. The elvish writing, readable from above, names the elf clans and which forest they entered. The plinth is known locally by humans as the "Pyramid of Magar's Hill" and by elves as the "Stone of Clans' Parting." About 800 years ago, Thennaris Trollbann became the first human scholar to deduce the Pyramid's secret and record it in his diaries (now kept at Candlkeep). -H


and

quote:
Shangalar the Black: (LE tiefling male lich W27) A mage of Calimshan circa 700 years ago, Shangalar's meteoric rise in power left many wondering if he was a scion of gods. In fact, he is the son of a Realms-bound cambion. As a mage of great power but little ambition, he was perfect for Rysellan and Rhangaun as a manipulable ally with power that simply needs direction. As a tiefling, his undead status is unique, and his skin (once of normal Calishite tone) is jet-black and calcifying to a flintlike substance, accounting for his high Armor Class.

He is so paranoid that he killed anyone who found his hidden keep, a floating aerial pyramid among the peaks of the Marching Mountains east of the River of Ice's headwaters. During the Time of Troubles, the magic of his lair failed and it crashed, ruining centuries of work and reducing his own power after some of his extraplanar experiments exploded. These losses have made Shangalar more interested and active in restoring both his own and the Rune's overall power.


and: does anyone know anything more about the legendary pyramid-shaped tear of Ascore artifact mentioned in Champions of Ruin, believed to be currently held by the lich Aumvor?



Many thanks Rjfras. This may very well be worth incorperating into my campaign.

(I'm going with the: the 5 sided pyramids were made for trapping stuff inside it.)

the reasoning if anyone wishes to know: After Karsus's folly, the empire collapsed, I imagin an empire of that magnitude had some pretty powerful outsiders as minions and manipulators. It's very likely some of these got demasked in the struggle for what was left. I assume the pyramids were built during this time, as a means to remove some key "players" from this struggle. If the pyramids exist other places I assume it's the same principal magic for imprisonment of some kind.


I second that!: what is this artifact?

Edited by - WarlockII on 17 Apr 2010 01:21:57
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Jakk
Great Reader

Canada
2165 Posts

Posted - 17 Apr 2010 :  02:15:53  Show Profile Send Jakk a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Okay... this theory is open to revision or wholesale replacement pending the answers of some recent questions posed to Ed, but here's what I'm thinking so far based on answers so far gained from Ed and discussion with other scribes...

1) The pyramids were built by the followers of Karsus using most of the stone from his colossal petrified (but not-quite-dead) corpse.

2) Whether deliberately or not, the pyramids acted as a huge arcane focus, imprisoning the divine essence of Karsus; this is why he still has a living avatar in Faerun as described in FR5 (as quoted above).

3) The ring of 13 dire oaks (surrounding the black pyramid? both the description and the map are unclear) are tied to the red pyramids; killing or chopping down one tree in this ring causes its corresponding red pyramid to collapse. The dire oaks are very difficult to kill; I'm hoping for some more information from Ed regarding the specifics of their nature, but I'm leaning toward total spell immunity, extreme hardness rating, and 20/epic DR.

4) When all 13 trees are killed and their pyramids have collapsed, the full divine essence of Karsus rejoins his avatar, which undergoes apotheosis and ascends as the lesser deity (or demipower) of magical hubris. Karsus' first actions as a reborn deity will depend on the state of Anauroch in your campaign.

4a) If the phaerimm are still around and the sharn wall still exists, Karsus telepathically communicates to the sharn knowledge of an epic arcane cooperative spell that allows the sharn to forcibly assimilate the remaining Anauroch phaerimm into the sharn wall, making the entire population part of the sharnstuff.

4b) If the phaerimm are still around and have been released by the breaching of the sharn wall, Karsus communicates to the sharn knowledge of a different epic arcane spell that transforms a targeted phaerimm back into the creature it was originally (if someone can help me identify the canon source I'm trying to remember here, it would be greatly appreciated; I'm not finding it now, but it's the same source that discusses the origin of the sharn).

4c) If the phaerimm have been exterminated by the shades (canon?), Karsus is at his most dangerous. He's still a Netherese arcanist at heart, as are the shades, and he's not happy about his failure to prevent the fall of his empire seventeen centuries earlier (assuming this is taking place in the late 1300s DR). With the phaerimm gone, Karsus needs someone or something to vent his wrath on, and there are a variety of candidates. He does not recognize the shades of Thultanthar as his people, because of the great changes wrought in them by Shar and the shadowstuff. He may also feel that the sharn could have acted more overtly against the phaerimm and prevented the lifedrain that destroyed his land. If he learns that Ioulaum and/or Larloch still exist, look out Faerūn! Beyond this, I need to do some more pondering, and other DMs are encouraged to do the same.

Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.

If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic.

Edited by - Jakk on 17 Apr 2010 15:51:29
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31690 Posts

Posted - 17 Apr 2010 :  02:18:31  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by rjfras

does anyone know anything more about the legendary pyramid-shaped tear of Ascore artifact mentioned in Champions of Ruin, believed to be currently held by the lich Aumvor?
It's a Sith Holocron.

[Aumvor always did remind me of a Sith Lord from the "Golden Age of the Sith" era]

...

Seriously, I don't immediately recall any further lore on the tear of Ascore. It might simply have been another fine Eric Boyd-creation made up for Aumvor's entry in CoR.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage

Edited by - The Sage on 17 Apr 2010 02:20:28
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Jakk
Great Reader

Canada
2165 Posts

Posted - 03 May 2010 :  22:19:42  Show Profile Send Jakk a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I like the idea of the tear of Ascore being associated with the pyramids somehow... if, as I suspect, the pyramids are tied to Karsus somehow, perhaps the tear of Ascore is some sort of focus for the true function of the big pyramids, whatever that may be...

Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.

If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic.
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Quale
Master of Realmslore

1755 Posts

Posted - 04 May 2010 :  11:53:17  Show Profile Send Quale a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Jakk

Interesting idea, Quale... is Dragon 338 the only source for the spellweavers, or are they mentioned elsewhere in canon?


There is a nest of spellweavers in Barakuir (Underdark), allied with the gold dwarves.

Only other connection I can think of is Jergal, who was possibly a spellweaver (Age of Worms).

And those hooded mages of Nimbral are called spell weavers, but that's really speculating.

Edited by - Quale on 04 May 2010 11:54:24
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31690 Posts

Posted - 04 May 2010 :  14:52:51  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Jakk

Interesting idea, Quale... is Dragon 338 the only source for the spellweavers, or are they mentioned elsewhere in canon?
There's also the spell weaver entry in 3.5e Monster Manual II.

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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31690 Posts

Posted - 04 May 2010 :  14:54:49  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Quale

Only other connection I can think of is Jergal, who was possibly a spellweaver (Age of Worms).
Note, however, that Eric's DUNGEON #130 web supplement isn't actually Realms canon. Thus, Jergal as a spellweaver isn't canon in the Realms either. It's merely a possibility offered by Eric Boyd for his "Age of Worms" conversion notes.

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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5043 Posts

Posted - 04 May 2010 :  15:47:38  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Jakk, re. the dire oaks: not spell immunity, but spell REFLECTION.
Ed hasn't shown me those notes, but a girl sometimes snoops...
love,
THO
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Jakk
Great Reader

Canada
2165 Posts

Posted - 06 May 2010 :  23:36:03  Show Profile Send Jakk a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ooooh! Thank you, milady Hooded One! Two more questions for you, if I may:

1) Can you share your suspicions as to the purpose of this ring of dire oaks, or do you know the [presumably NDA'd] truth of the matter?

2) If you are able to speculate on the previous question, what are your thoughts concerning the connection Ed hints at between the ring of dire oaks and the pyramids of Ascore?

I suspect I may ask too many questions... 'tis a better character flaw than some, I believe...

Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.

If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic.
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore

Brazil
1412 Posts

Posted - 22 Jun 2010 :  13:36:44  Show Profile  Click to see Barastir's MSN Messenger address Send Barastir a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I may be dreadfully wrong, but weren't the ruins of Ascore the basis for the mummy adventure in 1st edition Lord of Darkness?

If this is the case, the central pyramid is the home of a reptilian (later known as Sarrukh) greater mummy, surrounded by common mummies that were created by the elves of Evereska, if I recall properly, to somehow impede someone to release that ancient evil into the world.

"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."

The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood)
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Jakk
Great Reader

Canada
2165 Posts

Posted - 22 Jun 2010 :  17:29:11  Show Profile Send Jakk a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks for that tip, Barastir! I'll have to see if I have LoD in PDF now... IIRC, isn't it one of the titles available for free download at WotC?

Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.

If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic.
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Jakk
Great Reader

Canada
2165 Posts

Posted - 22 Jun 2010 :  17:43:33  Show Profile Send Jakk a Private Message  Reply with Quote
1. Yes, I have LoD in PDF.

2. No, Ascore is not the location. The notes following the adventure talk about Ascore, but the Crypt of Hssthak is somewhere else. I believe it's marked on one of Markustay's maps, IIRC...

3. The Evereskan elven mummies mentioned in the adventure are not the same as the mummies described in later lore, which suggests that the elves underwent the process knowingly and willingly to protect Faerun from the evil of Hssthak. If this is the case, they would not attack elves out of hand, nor would they attack anyone who seeks to completely destroy the sarrukh mummy.

Anyway, it was a good memory-refresher for me; off I go again to bounce myself repeatedly off another NDA... or maybe I'll just collate and organize some of my homebrew Realmslore instead. That sounds less painful.

Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.

If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic.
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore

Brazil
1412 Posts

Posted - 22 Jun 2010 :  18:54:39  Show Profile  Click to see Barastir's MSN Messenger address Send Barastir a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
No, Ascore is not the location. The notes following the adventure talk about Ascore, but the Crypt of Hssthak is somewhere else. I believe it's marked on one of Markustay's maps, IIRC...


I've checked my own PDF and realized it some minutes after posting... I forgot I had a copy in my pendrive. Where can I find Markustay's maps, by the way. Are they available?

quote:

The Evereskan elven mummies mentioned in the adventure are not the same as the mummies described in later lore, which suggests that the elves underwent the process knowingly and willingly to protect Faerun from the evil of Hssthak. If this is the case, they would not attack elves out of hand, nor would they attack anyone who seeks to completely destroy the sarrukh mummy.


I had the same understanding, but reading again, it seemed like the elves turned some of their own people into mummies using the rituals described in the pyramid, as a last resort. That explains why the mummy elves became a bit insane, and regretful of the transformation undergone, and why they hate and attack living elves. Remember that normal mummies had low intelligence in the earlier editions, dunno how it is now. Probably it's a normal reflection of their decaying proccess.

Besides, if the mummies are a menace to anyone that gets close to the Sarrukh, in a way they are avoiding either its realease AND its destruction...

Since it's not my intention to sidetrack the post, let me make a question that will bring the original issue back. When Karsus tried the ritual that caused the fall of Netheril, he was changed to stone, right?

All of his body was transformed, back then? The stone blocks of the Ascore pyramids are the same color of the "Heart of Karsus" found in the High Forest, right? I thought maybe the stone was red-hued cause it was originally his heart... How big Karsus was when he was turned to stone? Big enough for someone to build thirteen pyramids with his body's originated rocks?

"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."

The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood)

Edited by - Barastir on 23 Jun 2010 15:06:26
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Ionik Knight
Learned Scribe

USA
222 Posts

Posted - 07 Sep 2010 :  01:14:42  Show Profile  Visit Ionik Knight's Homepage Send Ionik Knight a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I found something, a walkthrough of one of FR PC games, in this game the players use the pyramids as a giant powersource to kill off a horde.

http://c64.tin.at/gateway_to_the_savage_frontier/gateway_to_the_savage_frontier.sol.htm

I'm not liking this as an explanation for the pyramids...maybe as a side effect.

Fools to right of them,
Jesters to left of them,
Clowns in front of them
Pun'd and parody'd.
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Ionik Knight
Learned Scribe

USA
222 Posts

Posted - 07 Sep 2010 :  01:29:34  Show Profile  Visit Ionik Knight's Homepage Send Ionik Knight a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Anyone know what scale the Ruins of Ascore map is Savage Frontier is? Looking at it I'ld guess each is the size of building..say 2000 square feet at the base?

Fools to right of them,
Jesters to left of them,
Clowns in front of them
Pun'd and parody'd.
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Jakk
Great Reader

Canada
2165 Posts

Posted - 10 Sep 2010 :  00:07:49  Show Profile Send Jakk a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Barastir

<chop>

Since it's not my intention to sidetrack the post, let me make a question that will bring the original issue back. When Karsus tried the ritual that caused the fall of Netheril, he was changed to stone, right?

All of his body was transformed, back then? The stone blocks of the Ascore pyramids are the same color of the "Heart of Karsus" found in the High Forest, right? I thought maybe the stone was red-hued cause it was originally his heart... How big Karsus was when he was turned to stone? Big enough for someone to build thirteen pyramids with his body's originated rocks?



That's my theory (see above)... but I'd love to know what Ed came up with, and that's not going to happen without a D&DI project regarding them. I'm curious as to the nature of the original project that invoked the NDA in the first place, and what happened to it.

Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.

If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic.
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore

Brazil
1412 Posts

Posted - 16 Sep 2010 :  13:36:05  Show Profile  Click to see Barastir's MSN Messenger address Send Barastir a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
That's my theory (see above)...


I know, but my question was if only the heart would be red-hued (hair could be golden or black, skin would be white-yellow, and so on).

Another question was if you think Karsus turned into a really giant stone being, for it seems that he should be very big indeed to have 13 entire pyramids constructed from his single body.

"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."

The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood)
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Quale
Master of Realmslore

1755 Posts

Posted - 17 Sep 2010 :  09:35:50  Show Profile Send Quale a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Maybe his whole enclave, including the reversed mountain, turned into this stone.
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twyoung1960
Acolyte

USA
1 Posts

Posted - 15 May 2012 :  21:10:20  Show Profile Send twyoung1960 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So how does that go with The Seven Swords of Wayland?

Nathanial Blish
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