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Pardan
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31 Posts

Posted - 30 Dec 2005 :  01:14:58  Show Profile  Visit Pardan's Homepage Send Pardan a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
In City of Splendors: Watderdeep there is mention of an "alien god" called the Dragonking that seems to have a connection to the Far Realm. However, further information about this being and its story is severely lacking. Can anyone fill me in on the whole background of this creature?

Do not knock on Death's door - ring the bell twice and run away.
He hates that.

Dargoth
Great Reader

Australia
4569 Posts

Posted - 30 Dec 2005 :  01:21:37  Show Profile  Visit Dargoth's Homepage Send Dargoth a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Pardan

In City of Splendors: Watderdeep there is mention of an "alien god" called the Dragonking that seems to have a connection to the Far Realm. However, further information about this being and its story is severely lacking. Can anyone fill me in on the whole background of this creature?



I think Eric invented him as a hook for those wanting to use Far Realm material in the realms

“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”

Emperor Sigismund

"Its good to be the King!"

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Pardan
Seeker

31 Posts

Posted - 30 Dec 2005 :  01:42:12  Show Profile  Visit Pardan's Homepage Send Pardan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Oh, cool...just what I needed ;)

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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
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Australia
31690 Posts

Posted - 30 Dec 2005 :  03:10:19  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth


quote:
Originally posted by Pardan

In City of Splendors: Watderdeep there is mention of an "alien god" called the Dragonking that seems to have a connection to the Far Realm. However, further information about this being and its story is severely lacking. Can anyone fill me in on the whole background of this creature?



I think Eric invented him as a hook for those wanting to use Far Realm material in the realms

Actually, the Dragonking is first mentioned in Volo's Guide to All Things Magical -- under the entry for the "Dragonking's Eye". Eric has continued with the reference into CoS:W and makes the connection to the Far Realm...

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Edited by - The Sage on 30 Dec 2005 03:12:00
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer

USA
1253 Posts

Posted - 30 Dec 2005 :  20:32:18  Show Profile  Visit ericlboyd's Homepage Send ericlboyd a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage

quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth


quote:
Originally posted by Pardan

In City of Splendors: Watderdeep there is mention of an "alien god" called the Dragonking that seems to have a connection to the Far Realm. However, further information about this being and its story is severely lacking. Can anyone fill me in on the whole background of this creature?



I think Eric invented him as a hook for those wanting to use Far Realm material in the realms

Actually, the Dragonking is first mentioned in Volo's Guide to All Things Magical -- under the entry for the "Dragonking's Eye". Eric has continued with the reference into CoS:W and makes the connection to the Far Realm...




The Dragonking does indeed tie back to write-up of the Dragonking's Eye in VGtATM, but the original reference is the 3rd of the Marco Volo modules in which the Dragonking makes a brief appearance in the Realms. (I don't really recommend that trilogy of modules, but they are part of canon Realmslore, so I tried to work with them some more. You can find them here for free: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/downloads)

--Eric

--
http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/
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Mystery_Man
Senior Scribe

USA
455 Posts

Posted - 31 Dec 2005 :  22:08:52  Show Profile  Visit Mystery_Man's Homepage Send Mystery_Man a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Page number?

From City of Splendors that is.
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31690 Posts

Posted - 01 Jan 2006 :  00:53:09  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Pg. 63 -- under the Wands noble family entry.

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martynq
Learned Scribe

United Kingdom
89 Posts

Posted - 01 Jan 2006 :  15:43:31  Show Profile  Visit martynq's Homepage Send martynq a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd
... the original reference is the 3rd of the Marco Volo modules in which the Dragonking makes a brief appearance in the Realms. (I don't really recommend that trilogy of modules...

I always felt that the major problem with those modules was the ending. The final conclusion is extremely deus ex machina and leaves little for the PCs to actually do. Really rather disappointing and I felt there had to be a better way to finish it.

Martyn
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Pardan
Seeker

31 Posts

Posted - 01 Jan 2006 :  16:59:22  Show Profile  Visit Pardan's Homepage Send Pardan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So that leaves the question - what IS the dragonking? Just an alien godlike presence from the Far Realm or something else altogether? And what does he have to do with dragons?

Do not knock on Death's door - ring the bell twice and run away.
He hates that.
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Mystery_Man
Senior Scribe

USA
455 Posts

Posted - 02 Jan 2006 :  14:47:36  Show Profile  Visit Mystery_Man's Homepage Send Mystery_Man a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Pardan

So that leaves the question - what IS the dragonking? Just an alien godlike presence from the Far Realm or something else altogether? And what does he have to do with dragons?



After reading page 63 (Thanks Sage) they give you enough rope to hang yourself..or enough clues to come up with a good campaign hook. Which I think it was meant to do.
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Vvornth
Seeker

Sweden
48 Posts

Posted - 02 Jan 2006 :  16:36:49  Show Profile  Visit Vvornth's Homepage Send Vvornth a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'd say that the info is vague enough for this entity to be a king AMONG dragons himself. In anycase, it's an obvious hook not really meant to be explored all too exhaustively in official supplements.

It's good to be king
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Eremite
Learned Scribe

Singapore
182 Posts

Posted - 03 Jan 2006 :  06:00:41  Show Profile  Visit Eremite's Homepage Send Eremite a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Why not a vaguely dragon-shaped entity from the Far Realm?

Perhaps the only way those who have seen the Dragonking can describe him in "normal" terms is that he looks like a dragon?

Best
E
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31690 Posts

Posted - 03 Jan 2006 :  06:05:41  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Eremite


Why not a vaguely dragon-shaped entity from the Far Realm?

Perhaps the only way those who have seen the Dragonking can describe him in "normal" terms is that he looks like a dragon?

I find it unlikely that anything directly coming from the Far Realm would have such an definitive form.

It's more likely that the "dragon" aspect of the Dragonking entity is merely a physical representation formed by the limited laws of reality on the Material Plane.

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Eremite
Learned Scribe

Singapore
182 Posts

Posted - 03 Jan 2006 :  08:24:50  Show Profile  Visit Eremite's Homepage Send Eremite a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage I find it unlikely that anything directly coming from the Far Realm would have such an definitive form. It's more likely that the "dragon" aspect of the Dragonking entity is merely a physical representation formed by the limited laws of reality on the Material Plane.


Sounds like a case of "six of one, half a dozen of the other".




Best
E
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader

USA
5402 Posts

Posted - 03 Jan 2006 :  14:15:12  Show Profile  Visit KnightErrantJR's Homepage Send KnightErrantJR a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hmm . . . a draconic entity from the Far Realm? I would give him tentacles on his shoulders and multiple eyes . . . at the very least. I think a lot of resturaunts in the Far Realm require tentacles to get in, in fact . . .

"Because philosophy arises from awe, a philosopher is bound in his way to be a lover of myths and poetic fables. Poets and philosophers are alike in being big with wonder."--Saint Thomas Aquinas

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Pardan
Seeker

31 Posts

Posted - 03 Jan 2006 :  19:10:34  Show Profile  Visit Pardan's Homepage Send Pardan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks a lot, I really appreciate your input (though my players might get to hate it ;))!

Do not knock on Death's door - ring the bell twice and run away.
He hates that.
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Shadovar
Senior Scribe

785 Posts

Posted - 04 Jan 2006 :  10:24:39  Show Profile  Visit Shadovar's Homepage Send Shadovar a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Eh, please excuse me for asking this. It was mentioned in the Cos manual, that the Dragonking was defeated by Correllon Larethan, Sune, Tyr. So how did he drew the attention of these three deities specifically and why did this three deities so happened to stop him when other deities could had opposed him and yet took no action? Just thinking.

We have fostered trust, recruited loyalty, and gathered the faithful. We have trained thousands. Our legions can cover the land, fill the sky and travel through the darkness. We can hunt any and all that would deny our heritage. Now is our time, now is the time of the Dark Reign(Rain) of the Empire of Shadows.
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In a speech given to the citizens of Shade Enclave
At the celebration of the Shinantra Battle victory when he revealed that he was THE Lord Shadow of legend.
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Mystery_Man
Senior Scribe

USA
455 Posts

Posted - 04 Jan 2006 :  15:39:28  Show Profile  Visit Mystery_Man's Homepage Send Mystery_Man a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR

Hmm . . . a draconic entity from the Far Realm? I would give him tentacles on his shoulders and multiple eyes . . . at the very least. I think a lot of resturaunts in the Far Realm require tentacles to get in, in fact . . .



Just hope and pray to every god you can think of that Cthulhu isn't the matre'd.
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader

USA
5402 Posts

Posted - 04 Jan 2006 :  15:56:47  Show Profile  Visit KnightErrantJR's Homepage Send KnightErrantJR a Private Message  Reply with Quote
That whole Corellon, Sune, and Tyr thing is just one more reason that the 2e adventures aren't really on anyone's top ten list. While some of the concepts are cool, in the end, those three just pop out of no where to "defeat" the Dragon King. There wasn't much explanation about why those three were involved, if I remember correctly, unless I missed something.

"Because philosophy arises from awe, a philosopher is bound in his way to be a lover of myths and poetic fables. Poets and philosophers are alike in being big with wonder."--Saint Thomas Aquinas

http://knighterrantjr.blogspot.com/

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Rocheval
Seeker

21 Posts

Posted - 20 Jan 2006 :  02:30:23  Show Profile  Visit Rocheval's Homepage Send Rocheval a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Sorry to bump this relatively old thread but the is a mention in a letter sent by Vangerdahast to Elminster in Forgotten Realms: Adventures hardcover acessory (1990) where Vangy writes (summarizing the Time of Troubles),
"The note from your Dragon-King ally in the furthest East is of equal interest, though I view his opinions with a great deal of suspicion. While I would like to believe that all the Eastern deities retreated to some mountain top and meditated quietly until the crisis had passed, other tales I have heard indicate that there was as much godly meddling there as here. The Shou spirits and gods have always been mired up to their hips in intrique. The fact they have a more organized hierarchy does not reduce their meddling. Your dragon-friend's assurances aside, I would say that the unknown East suffered as much as Faerun; with more space and less value on human life), it was less noticed."

I don't know if this is the same "Dragon-King" you guys are referring to and could be someone totally different. I haven't read any of the sources cited above, and was wondering if this "Dragon-King" was an evil entity and why it took three divine beings to defeat it. The only far fetched idea I have for a being of this magnitude would be one of the Dragon-Kings from the Dark Sun campaign interloping on Toril. Could it have been the acutal Dragon of Tyr? Anyway, like it was mentioned above, the hooks are just left-overs from the 2nd edition that were never followed through on and on a side note doesn't Vangy's little comment seem a little prejudiced?

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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader

USA
5402 Posts

Posted - 20 Jan 2006 :  02:32:37  Show Profile  Visit KnightErrantJR's Homepage Send KnightErrantJR a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I am almost 100% certain this was a reference to an aquaintance of Elminster's from Kara-Tur. The reference to meditating deities has to do with what the Celestial Beuracracy dieties were said to have done when cast down to Kara-Tur during the Time of Troubles.

"Because philosophy arises from awe, a philosopher is bound in his way to be a lover of myths and poetic fables. Poets and philosophers are alike in being big with wonder."--Saint Thomas Aquinas

http://knighterrantjr.blogspot.com/

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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30202 Posts

Posted - 20 Jan 2006 :  03:47:50  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Rocheval

I don't know if this is the same "Dragon-King" you guys are referring to and could be someone totally different. I haven't read any of the sources cited above, and was wondering if this "Dragon-King" was an evil entity and why it took three divine beings to defeat it. The only far fetched idea I have for a being of this magnitude would be one of the Dragon-Kings from the Dark Sun campaign interloping on Toril. Could it have been the acutal Dragon of Tyr? Anyway, like it was mentioned above, the hooks are just left-overs from the 2nd edition that were never followed through on and on a side note doesn't Vangy's little comment seem a little prejudiced?




I doubt they were the same entity. The dragons of the Kara-Tur are totally different than the ones of the Heartlands. And so far as I know, there have been no connections between Athas and any other world. TSR was not big on doing the setting crossovers. I only know of a couple of them, and they involved either Spelljammer or Ravenloft.

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Hoondatha
Great Reader

USA
2394 Posts

Posted - 20 Jan 2006 :  04:47:47  Show Profile  Visit Hoondatha's Homepage Send Hoondatha a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I have two comments and two questions to add to this thread.

First, it's definately two different "dragon kings," and unrelated to Athas. The only crossovers with Athas I know of are one from Planescape (a Dark Sun adventure), and one from the Baldur's Gate CRPG (which breaks so many rules, I don't even know where to begin).

Second, in the Marco Volo adventures (which had a lot of potential until the very end), it's mentioned that the Dragon King was a god, or uber-god, from another plane that made war upon, well, everything. He was at last defeated by an alliance of mortal mages (who became the Wands family), various other goodly forces in that plane, and three gods. That, in a nutshell, is its backstory. It's supposed to be hideously powerful.

My questions are: is Sune an interloper goddess, and if so from which pantheon? I know Tyr is, and Corellon is worshipped by elves all over the place, but what about Sune?

And second, what's the Far Realm? What book did I miss that I don't know about it?

Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well.
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
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Australia
31690 Posts

Posted - 20 Jan 2006 :  04:54:10  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I don't know if this is the same "Dragon-King" you guys are referring to and could be someone totally different. I haven't read any of the sources cited above, and was wondering if this "Dragon-King" was an evil entity and why it took three divine beings to defeat it. The only far fetched idea I have for a being of this magnitude would be one of the Dragon-Kings from the Dark Sun campaign interloping on Toril. Could it have been the acutal Dragon of Tyr?
There is no connection. Recall the Gray, and recall also that planar travel, in fact nearly every type of inter-cosmology travel between Athas and the rest of the multiverse, is barred.

This type of question has been asked on DS boards before -- and the answers are usually all the same. The names are simply a co-incidence... nothing more.

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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
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Australia
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Posted - 20 Jan 2006 :  05:11:51  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha

My questions are: is Sune an interloper goddess, and if so from which pantheon? I know Tyr is, and Corellon is worshipped by elves all over the place, but what about Sune?
Sune isn't an interloper deity. Ed's Down to Earth Divinities in DRAGON #54 tells us that Sune was inspired by Aphrodite.

I have a "sometimes" theory however that Sune may in fact be a separated aspect of Aphrodite and interloped with her sister Tyche, into the Realms.

quote:
And second, what's the Far Realm? What book did I miss that I don't know about it?
The Far Realm is a Lovecraft-inspired realm of madness. Its most recent detailing was in Manual of the Planes 3e. It received several mentions in the older lore... mostly in relation to illithids -- The Illithiad being a prime example of this.

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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader

USA
5402 Posts

Posted - 20 Jan 2006 :  10:46:01  Show Profile  Visit KnightErrantJR's Homepage Send KnightErrantJR a Private Message  Reply with Quote
There was also a fairly recent issue of Dragon that had some Far Realm stuff in it, though I can't recall the number right now.

"Because philosophy arises from awe, a philosopher is bound in his way to be a lover of myths and poetic fables. Poets and philosophers are alike in being big with wonder."--Saint Thomas Aquinas

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