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Pardan Posted - 30 Dec 2005 : 01:14:58
In City of Splendors: Watderdeep there is mention of an "alien god" called the Dragonking that seems to have a connection to the Far Realm. However, further information about this being and its story is severely lacking. Can anyone fill me in on the whole background of this creature?
30   L A T E S T    R E P L I E S    (Newest First)
Jamallo Kreen Posted - 24 Mar 2007 : 18:21:56
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage

quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha

My questions are: is Sune an interloper goddess, and if so from which pantheon? I know Tyr is, and Corellon is worshipped by elves all over the place, but what about Sune?
Sune isn't an interloper deity. Ed's Down to Earth Divinities in DRAGON #54 tells us that Sune was inspired by Aphrodite.

I have a "sometimes" theory however that Sune may in fact be a separated aspect of Aphrodite and interloped with her sister Tyche, into the Realms.

quote:
And second, what's the Far Realm? What book did I miss that I don't know about it?
The Far Realm is a Lovecraft-inspired realm of madness. Its most recent detailing was in Manual of the Planes 3e. It received several mentions in the older lore... mostly in relation to illithids -- The Illithiad being a prime example of this.




Well, Sage, Hoondatha raised the same question which I did in a scroll of my own which I penned in ignorance of this one. Tyr and Correllon are multi-sphere deities, but Sune apparently isn't. I think the time hath come to finally ask Ed about her and the Dragonking, and pray that he doesn't just tell us that it's a mystery of the gods!



OT to poor scribes: to make a quick bit of cash, wager your group's self-proclaimed experts on the Realms that they can't name the deity who has access to the highest arcane spellcasting slot. Or the one non-evil deity who has a higher divine rank than Cyric.





Answers: Sune(!!!), with spell slot twenty available to her, more than Azuth (19) or Mystra Mk II (18). The non-evil deity who can kick Cyric's butt? Chauntea!


Hoondatha Posted - 23 Jan 2006 : 17:36:15
Gates of Firestorm Keep I do have, though I haven't read it in years. I think I need to dust it off. Thanks.
The Sage Posted - 23 Jan 2006 : 05:44:20
Aye... it was -- to both statements.

The Illithiad is a particularly fascinating account as it utilises the Realm of Madness of "a" basis for illithid origins.

Actually, now that I think about it... I used that entry to write a series of journal entries here at Candlekeep about two years ago, telling the tale of the first demihuman explorers to enter the Far Realm. I'll have to take a look in the archives... as I don't think I ever did finish them.
Eremite Posted - 23 Jan 2006 : 03:44:30
The Far Realm was a creation of Bruce Cordell. I'm pretty sure that its first mention was in the rather good/possibly excellent 2E adventure, The Gates of Firestorm Peak.
Arivia Posted - 20 Jan 2006 : 17:41:34
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
The Far Realm is a Lovecraft-inspired realm of madness. Its most recent detailing was in Manual of the Planes 3e. It received several mentions in the older lore... mostly in relation to illithids -- The Illithiad being a prime example of this.



Also see Heroes of Horror, Lords of Madness, and the Epic Level Handbook.
Hoondatha Posted - 20 Jan 2006 : 13:25:25
Thanks. Never having read Lovecraft, and liking my planes the way they are already, it's no wonder I was confused (though I did read the Illithiad, so there I have no excuse).
KnightErrantJR Posted - 20 Jan 2006 : 10:46:01
There was also a fairly recent issue of Dragon that had some Far Realm stuff in it, though I can't recall the number right now.
The Sage Posted - 20 Jan 2006 : 05:11:51
quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha

My questions are: is Sune an interloper goddess, and if so from which pantheon? I know Tyr is, and Corellon is worshipped by elves all over the place, but what about Sune?
Sune isn't an interloper deity. Ed's Down to Earth Divinities in DRAGON #54 tells us that Sune was inspired by Aphrodite.

I have a "sometimes" theory however that Sune may in fact be a separated aspect of Aphrodite and interloped with her sister Tyche, into the Realms.

quote:
And second, what's the Far Realm? What book did I miss that I don't know about it?
The Far Realm is a Lovecraft-inspired realm of madness. Its most recent detailing was in Manual of the Planes 3e. It received several mentions in the older lore... mostly in relation to illithids -- The Illithiad being a prime example of this.
The Sage Posted - 20 Jan 2006 : 04:54:10
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I don't know if this is the same "Dragon-King" you guys are referring to and could be someone totally different. I haven't read any of the sources cited above, and was wondering if this "Dragon-King" was an evil entity and why it took three divine beings to defeat it. The only far fetched idea I have for a being of this magnitude would be one of the Dragon-Kings from the Dark Sun campaign interloping on Toril. Could it have been the acutal Dragon of Tyr?
There is no connection. Recall the Gray, and recall also that planar travel, in fact nearly every type of inter-cosmology travel between Athas and the rest of the multiverse, is barred.

This type of question has been asked on DS boards before -- and the answers are usually all the same. The names are simply a co-incidence... nothing more.
Hoondatha Posted - 20 Jan 2006 : 04:47:47
I have two comments and two questions to add to this thread.

First, it's definately two different "dragon kings," and unrelated to Athas. The only crossovers with Athas I know of are one from Planescape (a Dark Sun adventure), and one from the Baldur's Gate CRPG (which breaks so many rules, I don't even know where to begin).

Second, in the Marco Volo adventures (which had a lot of potential until the very end), it's mentioned that the Dragon King was a god, or uber-god, from another plane that made war upon, well, everything. He was at last defeated by an alliance of mortal mages (who became the Wands family), various other goodly forces in that plane, and three gods. That, in a nutshell, is its backstory. It's supposed to be hideously powerful.

My questions are: is Sune an interloper goddess, and if so from which pantheon? I know Tyr is, and Corellon is worshipped by elves all over the place, but what about Sune?

And second, what's the Far Realm? What book did I miss that I don't know about it?
Wooly Rupert Posted - 20 Jan 2006 : 03:47:50
quote:
Originally posted by Rocheval

I don't know if this is the same "Dragon-King" you guys are referring to and could be someone totally different. I haven't read any of the sources cited above, and was wondering if this "Dragon-King" was an evil entity and why it took three divine beings to defeat it. The only far fetched idea I have for a being of this magnitude would be one of the Dragon-Kings from the Dark Sun campaign interloping on Toril. Could it have been the acutal Dragon of Tyr? Anyway, like it was mentioned above, the hooks are just left-overs from the 2nd edition that were never followed through on and on a side note doesn't Vangy's little comment seem a little prejudiced?




I doubt they were the same entity. The dragons of the Kara-Tur are totally different than the ones of the Heartlands. And so far as I know, there have been no connections between Athas and any other world. TSR was not big on doing the setting crossovers. I only know of a couple of them, and they involved either Spelljammer or Ravenloft.
KnightErrantJR Posted - 20 Jan 2006 : 02:32:37
I am almost 100% certain this was a reference to an aquaintance of Elminster's from Kara-Tur. The reference to meditating deities has to do with what the Celestial Beuracracy dieties were said to have done when cast down to Kara-Tur during the Time of Troubles.
Rocheval Posted - 20 Jan 2006 : 02:30:23
Sorry to bump this relatively old thread but the is a mention in a letter sent by Vangerdahast to Elminster in Forgotten Realms: Adventures hardcover acessory (1990) where Vangy writes (summarizing the Time of Troubles),
"The note from your Dragon-King ally in the furthest East is of equal interest, though I view his opinions with a great deal of suspicion. While I would like to believe that all the Eastern deities retreated to some mountain top and meditated quietly until the crisis had passed, other tales I have heard indicate that there was as much godly meddling there as here. The Shou spirits and gods have always been mired up to their hips in intrique. The fact they have a more organized hierarchy does not reduce their meddling. Your dragon-friend's assurances aside, I would say that the unknown East suffered as much as Faerun; with more space and less value on human life), it was less noticed."

I don't know if this is the same "Dragon-King" you guys are referring to and could be someone totally different. I haven't read any of the sources cited above, and was wondering if this "Dragon-King" was an evil entity and why it took three divine beings to defeat it. The only far fetched idea I have for a being of this magnitude would be one of the Dragon-Kings from the Dark Sun campaign interloping on Toril. Could it have been the acutal Dragon of Tyr? Anyway, like it was mentioned above, the hooks are just left-overs from the 2nd edition that were never followed through on and on a side note doesn't Vangy's little comment seem a little prejudiced?
KnightErrantJR Posted - 04 Jan 2006 : 15:56:47
That whole Corellon, Sune, and Tyr thing is just one more reason that the 2e adventures aren't really on anyone's top ten list. While some of the concepts are cool, in the end, those three just pop out of no where to "defeat" the Dragon King. There wasn't much explanation about why those three were involved, if I remember correctly, unless I missed something.
Mystery_Man Posted - 04 Jan 2006 : 15:39:28
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR

Hmm . . . a draconic entity from the Far Realm? I would give him tentacles on his shoulders and multiple eyes . . . at the very least. I think a lot of resturaunts in the Far Realm require tentacles to get in, in fact . . .



Just hope and pray to every god you can think of that Cthulhu isn't the matre'd.
Shadovar Posted - 04 Jan 2006 : 10:24:39
Eh, please excuse me for asking this. It was mentioned in the Cos manual, that the Dragonking was defeated by Correllon Larethan, Sune, Tyr. So how did he drew the attention of these three deities specifically and why did this three deities so happened to stop him when other deities could had opposed him and yet took no action? Just thinking.
Pardan Posted - 03 Jan 2006 : 19:10:34
Thanks a lot, I really appreciate your input (though my players might get to hate it ;))!
KnightErrantJR Posted - 03 Jan 2006 : 14:15:12
Hmm . . . a draconic entity from the Far Realm? I would give him tentacles on his shoulders and multiple eyes . . . at the very least. I think a lot of resturaunts in the Far Realm require tentacles to get in, in fact . . .
Eremite Posted - 03 Jan 2006 : 08:24:50
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage I find it unlikely that anything directly coming from the Far Realm would have such an definitive form. It's more likely that the "dragon" aspect of the Dragonking entity is merely a physical representation formed by the limited laws of reality on the Material Plane.


Sounds like a case of "six of one, half a dozen of the other".



The Sage Posted - 03 Jan 2006 : 06:05:41
quote:
Originally posted by Eremite


Why not a vaguely dragon-shaped entity from the Far Realm?

Perhaps the only way those who have seen the Dragonking can describe him in "normal" terms is that he looks like a dragon?

I find it unlikely that anything directly coming from the Far Realm would have such an definitive form.

It's more likely that the "dragon" aspect of the Dragonking entity is merely a physical representation formed by the limited laws of reality on the Material Plane.
Eremite Posted - 03 Jan 2006 : 06:00:41
Why not a vaguely dragon-shaped entity from the Far Realm?

Perhaps the only way those who have seen the Dragonking can describe him in "normal" terms is that he looks like a dragon?
Vvornth Posted - 02 Jan 2006 : 16:36:49
I'd say that the info is vague enough for this entity to be a king AMONG dragons himself. In anycase, it's an obvious hook not really meant to be explored all too exhaustively in official supplements.
Mystery_Man Posted - 02 Jan 2006 : 14:47:36
quote:
Originally posted by Pardan

So that leaves the question - what IS the dragonking? Just an alien godlike presence from the Far Realm or something else altogether? And what does he have to do with dragons?



After reading page 63 (Thanks Sage) they give you enough rope to hang yourself..or enough clues to come up with a good campaign hook. Which I think it was meant to do.
Pardan Posted - 01 Jan 2006 : 16:59:22
So that leaves the question - what IS the dragonking? Just an alien godlike presence from the Far Realm or something else altogether? And what does he have to do with dragons?
martynq Posted - 01 Jan 2006 : 15:43:31
quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd
... the original reference is the 3rd of the Marco Volo modules in which the Dragonking makes a brief appearance in the Realms. (I don't really recommend that trilogy of modules...

I always felt that the major problem with those modules was the ending. The final conclusion is extremely deus ex machina and leaves little for the PCs to actually do. Really rather disappointing and I felt there had to be a better way to finish it.

Martyn
The Sage Posted - 01 Jan 2006 : 00:53:09
Pg. 63 -- under the Wands noble family entry.
Mystery_Man Posted - 31 Dec 2005 : 22:08:52
Page number?

From City of Splendors that is.
ericlboyd Posted - 30 Dec 2005 : 20:32:18
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage

quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth


quote:
Originally posted by Pardan

In City of Splendors: Watderdeep there is mention of an "alien god" called the Dragonking that seems to have a connection to the Far Realm. However, further information about this being and its story is severely lacking. Can anyone fill me in on the whole background of this creature?



I think Eric invented him as a hook for those wanting to use Far Realm material in the realms

Actually, the Dragonking is first mentioned in Volo's Guide to All Things Magical -- under the entry for the "Dragonking's Eye". Eric has continued with the reference into CoS:W and makes the connection to the Far Realm...




The Dragonking does indeed tie back to write-up of the Dragonking's Eye in VGtATM, but the original reference is the 3rd of the Marco Volo modules in which the Dragonking makes a brief appearance in the Realms. (I don't really recommend that trilogy of modules, but they are part of canon Realmslore, so I tried to work with them some more. You can find them here for free: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/downloads)

--Eric
The Sage Posted - 30 Dec 2005 : 03:10:19
quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth


quote:
Originally posted by Pardan

In City of Splendors: Watderdeep there is mention of an "alien god" called the Dragonking that seems to have a connection to the Far Realm. However, further information about this being and its story is severely lacking. Can anyone fill me in on the whole background of this creature?



I think Eric invented him as a hook for those wanting to use Far Realm material in the realms

Actually, the Dragonking is first mentioned in Volo's Guide to All Things Magical -- under the entry for the "Dragonking's Eye". Eric has continued with the reference into CoS:W and makes the connection to the Far Realm...
Pardan Posted - 30 Dec 2005 : 01:42:12
Oh, cool...just what I needed ;)

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