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Firhyanda
Learned Scribe
USA
108 Posts |
 Posted - 30 Oct 2005 : 18:36:17
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Greetings All
My wife ran me through suns of guurmsh over the course of the last two weeks. I think it’s an excellent adventure we managed to run it in 5 sessions or about 22 hours of play. It reminded me of my days of good old hack and slash D&D, a bridge too far meets Indiana Jones in the realms. That may be because I ran 3 split class rogues and a split class monk. I think the module is a bit much for 4th level characters. I would recommend either running six 4th level characters or adding one or two 5th level character to a party of four. Have fun with it we did.
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Thysl
Seeker
USA
64 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2005 : 19:54:34
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Agreed, I'm pitting my group up against enough stuff to get them to 5th (4th on the Air Genasi Wizard) level before they take on the Gray Citadel. While I think they could do it at 4th, none of them have rogue levels, so I'm playing it safe... safer.
Thysl |
There are as many nights as days, and the one is just as long as the other in the year's course. Even a happy life cannot be without a measure of darkness, and the word 'happy' would lose its meaning if it were not balanced by sadness.
--Carl Jung |
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 11 Dec 2005 : 05:57:20
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As an avid collector of D&D minis, I was delighted to see that the stat blocks at the end of the module matched the stat blocks on the D&D mini cards!!! no more flipping for monster stats! All I need to do is prepare my cards in advance, before the game, and pop them in my initiative card pile at each encounter! (i.e. each of my player have their character's basic info being a 2"x3" card -- init, hp, spot, listen, etc. When they roll initiative they give me their cards in descending order, and I stick my monster cards in there too, as I gather theirs! :) )
The only "slight" difference I notice was that some of the SoG stat blocks have different loot (potions instead of a ring of feather fall, in one case that I have noticed). But most of the time, the loot is the SAME! Stats are the SAME every time! It's fantastic! A revolution in gaming experience I'd say! :) |
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evildmguy
Acolyte
USA
33 Posts |
Posted - 15 Dec 2005 : 22:18:29
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Okay,
I just finished reading this and I have to say, I am impressed.
The first part, in Melgaunt, is very well done, with many places it could be fleshed out for more things later, especially if used as a base for the players. I don't think I have seen an adventure allow for so much role playing. Depending on your group, it might be a few sessions before they get to the "real" action!
I think the lack of a map through Thar is too bad but it isn't needed. It might detract a bit, if a DM was being too picky personally. Again, good opportunities for role playing and combat in the area and handled well.
The gem is the fortress. I like how it is written up. I think the author (Christopher Perkins) did a good job in having a logical fortress, instead of a dungeon with monsters placed here and there based on what would be tough. There is a good logic to it all. Further, there are good notes at each location about who will respond, depending on how the PCs get there. I like the detail and the sidebars are very good. There are even several places for further adventures that can be used later! I thought that was pretty cool!
My only hesitation is that this seems really powerful for a 4th level group if they don't play very strategically. While it makes sense from the orc perspective, at many points, the PCs could find themselves facing up to a dozen orcs and their allies! So, some very tough stuff here. I think they left it at 4th because having the area effect spells of Fireball and ligtning bolt might make it TOO easy, though. If the sorcerer or wizard doesn't have spells like that, though, this could challenge a group up to 5th level, maybe even 6th, depending on how good they are with tactics.
Just a few coppers worth.
Have a good one! Take care!
edg |
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2005 : 01:57:43
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| Indeed: if a group of four level 5 adventurers includes a wizard that does NOT have the fireball spell, this group will in fact be worse off than a group of four level 4 fighter-types... :P |
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scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2005 : 04:59:13
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Well, I've spent much time bemoaning the lack of really good artwork. Remember, I got into TSR stuff when they had Larry Elmore, Clyde Caldwell, and Jeff Easley doing the exterior art, and Valerie Valusek doing some of the interior art. I think they've yet to return to that level of outstanding artwork.
I'm with you Wooly, I have been into all of this since 1987 when I started HS, Now I am starting showing my age, but I like a lot of the earlier artwork. |
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2005 : 04:25:22
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In all due respect, I got into D&D in the 80's too, and the cover artwork of Sons of Gruumsh is just marvelous, on par with the Easleys and Elmores, if not better.
That's my two cents, anyhow. |
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warlockco
Master of Realmslore
USA
1695 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2005 : 04:52:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Purple Dragon Knight
In all due respect, I got into D&D in the 80's too, and the cover artwork of Sons of Gruumsh is just marvelous, on par with the Easleys and Elmores, if not better.
That's my two cents, anyhow.
That's because it is Lockwood. Who is one of several "new" artists that fall into that category. I think Todd Lockwood, Sam Wood, Wayne Reynolds, Mathew Wilson are some of the best artists that WotC is currently using. |
News of the Weird
D20 System Reference Document
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Kajehase
Great Reader
Sweden
2104 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2005 : 05:30:08
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| And if we're talking new artists and Sons of Gruumsh I'd like to add Michael Dubisch to that list as well, especially when he's doing stuff in black-and-white. |
There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett |
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scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2005 : 17:47:20
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quote:
Originally posted by warlockco
quote:
Originally posted by Purple Dragon Knight
In all due respect, I got into D&D in the 80's too, and the cover artwork of Sons of Gruumsh is just marvelous, on par with the Easleys and Elmores, if not better.
That's my two cents, anyhow.
Don't get me wrong, I do like a lot of the newer art, but you can really see a change in the style of artwork being done these days ( Scererar sighs as he realizes he is becoming an old man) However, I am partial to easley, lockwood, and caldwell, as well as several others I am not thinking of off the top of my head. they were my "window" so to speak, into the realm of D&D.
That's because it is Lockwood. Who is one of several "new" artists that fall into that category. I think Todd Lockwood, Sam Wood, Wayne Reynolds, Mathew Wilson are some of the best artists that WotC is currently using.
that would explain it |
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The Blue Sorceress
Learned Scribe
107 Posts |
Posted - 28 Dec 2005 : 06:13:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Firhyanda
Greetings All
I think the module is a bit much for 4th level characters. I would recommend either running six 4th level characters or adding one or two 5th level character to a party of four. Have fun with it we did.
You've got my total agreement here. I just picked this module up, and I'm thinking about running it for some friends over break. I wouldn't run it for a fourth level party unless there were five of six players. I'd prefer to run it with level four or five fifth level characters. Knowing how small my gaming groups tend to be I'm probably going to run it with three sixth level characters or three fifth level characters and a NPC to provide the healy-healy or the sneaky-sneaky (my players usually cover the hitty-hitty and the 'spoldy-'splody and leave the rest up to the fates. Well rounded-party? We don't need no stinkin' well rounded-party!)
For those of you who have run this already, did you run into any particularly sticky points? Any interesting tricks, both to play on my players, or to be prepared for my players to play on me?
-Blue |
Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely.
I see your walrus and raise you a carpenter |
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warlockco
Master of Realmslore
USA
1695 Posts |
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The Blue Sorceress
Learned Scribe
107 Posts |
Posted - 28 Dec 2005 : 07:13:09
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quote:
Originally posted by warlockco
I see several instances where a "stupid" or non-Stealthy party can get itself killed off easily.
This module is best for groups that tend to play as Commando types.
Heh. "Stealth" isn't a word in my players' dictionary. I'll have to tell them before-hand to think before they charge.
-Blue |
Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely.
I see your walrus and raise you a carpenter |
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Crennen FaerieBane
Master of Realmslore
USA
1378 Posts |
Posted - 28 Dec 2005 : 14:47:16
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Blue, you're comment about Sneaky-Sneaky, etc. reminds me of Eddie Izzard.
Anyway - I have gotten my PCs up past the Melvaunt part and they are beginning the journey to the Orc Stronghold. We'll have to see how it goes from there. And I also have a "healy-healy" NPC. 
C-Fb |
Still rockin' the Fey'ri style. |
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warlockco
Master of Realmslore
USA
1695 Posts |
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Bocklin
Learned Scribe
Germany
151 Posts |
Posted - 29 Dec 2005 : 09:11:39
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quote:
Originally posted by warlockco
Know what you mean by well-rounded parties.
I am pretty much the only one in my group that will play a Cleric.
That makes it two of us then...
I am always the only Cleric and when I DM I know that I will have my players half-dead all the time and with no proper way to heal. I have to pepper the hoards and treasures of their ennemies with wands of "Cure xxx wounds" (there is some guy who will always play the Ranger) or I know that the adventure will be very short.
(Un)fortunately that does not help for ability damages or sickness. When I feel mean I drop some Dire Rats or Ghoul and I enjoy seeing them slowly die away in the days after the fight. Somehow they still did not get it and everyone shuns the Cleric class.
Even though they're all well above 25, I know that they would never survive "Sons of Gruumsh". They always develop the worst plans and end up doing it "full-assault commando" to make up for their failed attempt. That would be their death in SoG.
Bocklin |
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Crennen FaerieBane
Master of Realmslore
USA
1378 Posts |
Posted - 29 Dec 2005 : 14:57:14
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I will never understand why everyone has a hard time playing a cleric. They are pretty good at melee and they have spells to boot. I think it's because they are just a split world character and need a little bit more roleplay involved.
C-Fb |
Still rockin' the Fey'ri style. |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 29 Dec 2005 : 23:22:34
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| For group Im DMing for its the Rogue class no one wants to play so theyve been triggering just about every trap theyve encountered since we started the campaign |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
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Firhyanda
Learned Scribe
USA
108 Posts |
Posted - 31 Dec 2005 : 18:16:02
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Greetings all.
Perhaps this has been asked before but does King Kursk One Tusk exist in realms lore outside of sons of gruumsh?And are the planes by wizards to do a sequel to this adventure? |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jan 2006 : 02:26:40
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| I don't know. I think this adventure was a trial balloon to see how adventures sold, and I think if it did well, then they will be doing more. That having been said, I haven't seen any sales figures, or even a comment about it doing well or not, so I couldn't say if the trial was successful. |
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jan 2006 : 02:36:57
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I'm currently DMing this module, and the PCs are arriving at the orc fortress the next time we play (i.e. in two days). We're all having a blast, and I find this module very refreshing/fun/well-written.
I'm substituting the lone half-orc ranger encounter for a new PC that's joining the party permanently (perfect place for our new player to jump in). He'll be playing a Ghostwise Halfling Wizard 5... with fireballs... now I'm really scared that this adventure will be a cakewalk for the party... (so far I was worried, because two mountain orcs barbarian 1 with greataxes almost killed a player twice; in the first encounter, one orc scored a x3 critical, which is deadly with d12 greataxes and a +7 dmg bonus... the other time, two orc brutes ganged up on a rogue and almost clubbed him to death...)
That's what I really like about 3E, and this adventure most importantly: orcs are NOT fodder anymore. They can be a threat on their own... after all, 7-foot tall monkeys with axes SHOULD be feared... |
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Firhyanda
Learned Scribe
USA
108 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jan 2006 : 19:17:16
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Spoilers...
Tactics: My two cents worth for what it’s worth the party must attack the citadel at night or they may be noticed by the troops in the valley below without the cover of darkness be sure to point this out to the party as you don’t want your orks having the disadvantage of daylight in the initial encounter.
The Gray citadel is a meat grinder a couple of fire balls will make vary little difference for the party there are only three ways into the module.
1. Front Door murder holes and boiling led good luck with that...
2. The crack in the wall the party will most likely have to burn there fireballs on the weaveryn. The screams of the dieing wyvern will most likely wake the ground level orks up in a hurry.
3. Over the wall to the upper level a 20 foot fall to the rocks hurts unless you have an entire party of rouges. The party will have to eliminate 12 guards silently a real chance for the party rouge to shin but one slip and yuck.
The Ork guards on the upper level of the citadel should not run down stairs there are 12 of them and they have bows have them weight until the troops on the Ground level have engaged the party and concentrate there fire. Groups of three orks firing from above on the party each group fires three times at a single party member. Rember to have the orcs on the lower level lead party members into the cort yard on the ground level.
Use the low level orks on the ground level as swarm fighters they only attack one target at a time in mass like a pack of wolves the quarters are tight here and once the battle rages fire balls will be ill advised. Hold you barbarians in reserve they do not come out to play until the party is weak.
One ork on every level including the upper level will try and run down to the next lowest level to warn the others. If the orks have been warned make sure they take all there potions and you have a write up for them with there buffs.
If the party survives this and moves on to the dungeon levels the central shaft on the dungeon levels one two and three is your friend have some of the orks try and bull rush party members over the edge if the fall does not kill them being alone on the bottom level will.
If the party does not do rooms to room to clear the level behind them ambush them from behind? Do a head count of the orks that survived the first assault on the ground level and use them for the ambush. |
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jan 2006 : 23:24:37
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They have a cleric with the silence spell memorized, which they plan to use for the approach. Remember that the orc guards are already at -4 to spot and listen due to the fog and rain, so a silence spell here will result in the party making it all the way to the entrance undetected (as the adventure mentions that orcs cannot make spot check until the PCs emerge out of the fog, 30 feet away from the entrance).
If they are smart, they'll send the scout ahead to find the breach and enter that way. The wyvern is sleeping, so this could be the best way in IMO. |
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The Blue Sorceress
Learned Scribe
107 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jan 2006 : 15:59:57
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I started DM'ing this module on New Year's Eve, currently my players have just fought off the owlbear at the ambush site and found the tracks that will take them to the next encounter.
The party consists of:
NG female elven bard 5
?? female human rogue 5
LN male human cleric of Helm 5
LN male human fighter 5
and an NPC:
LG male human evoker 5
They've done fairly well with the easier challenges (the owlbear, the bravos in Melvaunt) but surprisingly a pair of dire wolves almost wasted them as part of a random encounter in the Thar. One of them tripped the fighter (who had some wretched hp rolls) and the other tripped the evoker, (who I rolled well for hp-wise, but he is a wizard after all...) A little well-timed assistance from the other party members was a real help, and in the end the dire wolves, both well below half hp, were chased off.
The owlbear fight was a little wierd because we had another player arrive late, and since we didn't want to wait for him to roll up a character, I handed the NPC over to him to play until next session. The guy really didn't have a good grasp of the rules for grappling, however, and tried to cast scorching ray on the owlbear while he was grappling with the fighter. The bard and the rogue weren't much better, because they were shooting arrows too, but since they weren't forewarned about the consequences and the new player was I let they choose different actions when they realized what would happen. The scorching ray hit the fighter (and the new player was rolling high for damage) nearly doing him in after the damage he'd taken from the owlbear, and also doing so pretty nasty damage to the cleric, who'd used shield other on the fighter at the beginning of the battle.
Hopefully things will go a little better next time. I'm going to make some of the challenges a little harder, because we're probably going to add another new player, popping the total number of people in the party up to seven (what happened to having three players if I was lucky, huh?)
-Blue |
Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely.
I see your walrus and raise you a carpenter |
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Kajehase
Great Reader
Sweden
2104 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2006 : 22:44:06
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| A web enhancement to scale this adventure for higher-level PCs is now available at Wizard of the Coast's website. |
There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett |
Edited by - Kajehase on 18 Apr 2006 22:44:48 |
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Mr. Wilson
Seeker
USA
73 Posts |
Posted - 28 May 2006 : 10:50:18
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Well, I'm running this now, and the PC's will be hitting the Orc camp first thing when we start. I'm now extremly worried about survival.
The party is 5 PC's, but I may have rushed them slightly into this. I may have extra encounters to beef them up.
Right now the Knights of the Silver Dawn include (after the orc encounter, they'll level to 4):
1 CG Male Human Bard 4
1 CG Male Human Ranger of Mielikki 4
1 LN Male Ftr 1/ Wizard 2 Duergar
1 LN Female Aasimar Cleric of Kelemvor 3
1 NG Male Shield Drawf/Dragon Descendant of a copper Dragon (template from Races of the Dragon) Ftr 3
Yeah, I'm real worried this could end in slaughter. Best have Haravack really impress upon them that a frontal assault is a BAD idea. On the other hand, the Bard manages to give everyone a +3 bonus to hit and damage with Harmonize, so that helps. |
"I've got a plan..."- Dan
"Nothing good has ever come after those four words." - Jesse |
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Chyron
Learned Scribe
Hong Kong
279 Posts |
Posted - 28 May 2006 : 11:09:37
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Just curious if this would be possible,
How would the sages here change the setting so that this module fits in loosley within the events (and region) of The Hunter's Blades trilogy? |
Just My Thoughts
Chyron :)
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Edited by - Chyron on 28 May 2006 13:03:55 |
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Mr. Wilson
Seeker
USA
73 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2006 : 11:47:24
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Well, we just finished up the big fight (yeah a month and a half later, but we missed multiple sessions due to out of game reasons), and I have to say, they choose the worst avenue possible. I had to let them rest two nights, otherwise they wouldn't have survived.
It wasn't bad tactics, otherwise I would have punished them, they choose chose the wrong room to enter first on the top level having snuck by everyone with a silence spell. They entered the big boss' room, and had to fight all top level orcs at once. To make matters worse, two of the characters ran away (both LN characters, though the cleric stayed until out of spells and down to 3 hitpoints, the wizard as soon as cover was blown).
Of course, the last battle was tough, but sound burst managed to really hammer the extra orcs. The BBEG went down thanks to a bestow curse from the Cleric and a crit from the dwarf fighter. OTOH, he also destroyed about 4000 gp in magic items.
And they Players weren't happy that the bad guys kept drinking their treasure. I though it was funny though (as an aside, the rules for drinking potions IMC are different. If you have a masterwork potion belt as presented in FRCS, then it's only an immediate action to take a potion).
Overall, it was a tough fight, made tougher by chance. No PC deaths, but I did bring each player in the negatives at least twice.
Each are now also either 6th characters. |
"I've got a plan..."- Dan
"Nothing good has ever come after those four words." - Jesse |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2006 : 18:22:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Wilson
OTOH, he also destroyed about 4000 gp in magic items.
And they Players weren't happy that the bad guys kept drinking their treasure. I though it was funny though (as an aside, the rules for drinking potions IMC are different. If you have a masterwork potion belt as presented in FRCS, then it's only an immediate action to take a potion).
That line just reminded me of the Zogonia comic strip in this month's Dragon. |
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Sons of Gruumsh
