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Crennen FaerieBane
Master of Realmslore
USA
1378 Posts |
 Posted - 15 Sep 2005 : 03:19:58
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That is a bit annoying - you have to do a whole bunch of flipping back and forth just to run a darn adventure. I remember when I ran COTSQ, it was a annoyance and it slowed down the game. Whatever happened to the good ole 1st Ed adventures???
C-Fb |
Still rockin' the Fey'ri style. |
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Ulrik Wolfsbane
Acolyte
New Zealand
27 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2005 : 04:25:08
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| COuldn't you just photocopy the stats so you wouldn't have to flick back and forward? I'm gonna have to do that with COTSQ anyway cos it's not 3.5 and newer prestige classes like the Yathrinshee demand insertion. |
Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their women! |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2005 : 04:31:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Patrakis
HI DArgoth
The NPCs and Villains are at the back of the adventure, exactly like in COSQ.
Pat
Grrrr
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“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Sanishiver
Senior Scribe
USA
476 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2005 : 07:02:57
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Just got my copy today.
I have to say I'm impressed with the art (even though it’s just a black/white interior) and layout. Also, when you compare the size of this adventure to that of CotSQ, it's obvious a DM is not nearly in as much danger of loosing their place in the book as they would be with CotSQ (believe me, I’ve been there). At 30 pages total, there just aren't enough pages in the book for it to be a factor.
I also like how they included references to WotC's miniatures lines in creature stat blocks, as well as included page references to the Monster Manual. They went so far as to include the actual set number for the suggested mini in the stat block. Very good ideas, those.
Example (from page 15):
Krog (Ogre): hp 29; MM 199. Suggested Miniature: Oger (Harbinger 71/80).
Other thoughtful and IMO very useful outside of the adventure features include a couple of side-bars for such things as a list of 30 ready-to-use Orc names (male and female versions for each) and 10 random orc battle cries (in both common and orcish!).
I haven’t had time to give it a thorough read-through, but mayhap I’ll have time later to write a semi-thorough review.
Anyone with specific questions, give me a holler.
J. Grenemyer |
09/20/2008: Tiger Army at the Catalyst in Santa Cruz. You wouldn’t believe how many females rode it out in the pit. Santa Cruz women are all of them beautiful. Now I know to add tough to that description.
6/27/2008: WALL-E is about the best damn movie Pixar has ever made. It had my heart racing and had me rooting for the good guy.
9/9/2006: Dave Mathews Band was off the hook at the Shoreline Amphitheater.
Never, ever read the game books too literally, or make such assumptions that what is omitted cannot be. Bad DM form, that.
And no matter how compelling a picture string theory paints, if it does not accurately describe our universe, it will be no more relevant than an elaborate game of Dungeons and Dragons. --paragraph 1, chapter 9, The Elegant Universe by Brian Greene |
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Ulrik Wolfsbane
Acolyte
New Zealand
27 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2005 : 07:13:09
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| Sounds cool, though I'm sure we won't get it in New Zealand for another month or two. |
Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their women! |
Edited by - Ulrik Wolfsbane on 15 Sep 2005 07:14:56 |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6648 Posts |
Posted - 16 Sep 2005 : 02:31:17
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Maybe not that long Ulrik - I picked this up from my hobby store today.
On a preliminary run-through, I'm very impressed. The details re Melvaunt are very useful, there are some game mechanic bits of realmslore like an orcish ritual which gives the recipient the "mark of Nishrek" and references to dead orcish kings and leaders. I also like the little sidebar containing orc war cries - nice touch.
This adventure isn't the realmslore laden, Steven Schend-type adventures of 2E but pretty impressive nonetheless. I'd recommend it to those who like a decent, orc-hack adventure with a twist at the end. What I would be interested to know is what the cost of all the miniatures that are quoted in the adventure and how many would be needed. My guess is that it wouldn't be cheap!
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 16 Sep 2005 : 03:08:25
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
On a preliminary run-through, I'm very impressed. The details re Melvaunt are very useful, there are some game mechanic bits of realmslore like an orcish ritual which gives the recipient the "mark of Nishrek" and references to dead orcish kings and leaders. I also like the little sidebar containing orc war cries - nice touch.
Hmmm... both sound good. What's the details about Melvaunt like -- just a listing of current events, or do we get some background info as well?
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6648 Posts |
Posted - 16 Sep 2005 : 03:51:13
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It's a paragraph IIRC on each of the noble families that sit on the Ruling Council. People, motivations etc. Not too bad.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Sanishiver
Senior Scribe
USA
476 Posts |
Posted - 16 Sep 2005 : 06:12:28
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I don't know the minis line well enough to be an authority. I figure the 'typical' (as WotC sees it) young player is someone who spends enough to pick up a box every 2-3 weeks and trades minis with friends.
I think Orcs are common minis, so it probably shouldn't be too hard to acquire enough out of a box or two and through trading.
I wonder if WotC considered a one or two page map insert for minis use? Maybe something that detailed final encounter type rooms or at least one level of encounter areas?
J. Grenemyer |
09/20/2008: Tiger Army at the Catalyst in Santa Cruz. You wouldn’t believe how many females rode it out in the pit. Santa Cruz women are all of them beautiful. Now I know to add tough to that description.
6/27/2008: WALL-E is about the best damn movie Pixar has ever made. It had my heart racing and had me rooting for the good guy.
9/9/2006: Dave Mathews Band was off the hook at the Shoreline Amphitheater.
Never, ever read the game books too literally, or make such assumptions that what is omitted cannot be. Bad DM form, that.
And no matter how compelling a picture string theory paints, if it does not accurately describe our universe, it will be no more relevant than an elaborate game of Dungeons and Dragons. --paragraph 1, chapter 9, The Elegant Universe by Brian Greene |
Edited by - Sanishiver on 16 Sep 2005 06:17:36 |
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Gray Richardson
Master of Realmslore
USA
1291 Posts |
Posted - 16 Sep 2005 : 06:42:22
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I have acquired so many orc minis from my purchases of D&D miniatures that I have had to make a separate box for just orcs. Orcs are very common. You can find them in every set. If you don't have enough you can pick up packs of Reaper miniatures, which I believe sell packages of 3 or more orcs together.
Come to think of it, if you lack orcs, I think Warhammer sells like a box of orcs.
One should never lack for orcs.  |
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Ulrik Wolfsbane
Acolyte
New Zealand
27 Posts |
Posted - 16 Sep 2005 : 06:47:49
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I've not seem one D&D minature that I would be proud to own... Am I alone in thinking they are ugly, tacky and a total waste of money? Seriously, if I didn't use GW minis I'd rather use dice or my unpainted KODT figs than those pieces of crap.
I'm curious... The write up for the adventure on the FR site states that the PCs are attacked by orc (assassins?)on their return to Melvaunt. How interesting/meaningful is this encounter? I can imagine it being a little bit of an afterthought and a little bit annoying to players who want to relax after their labours. How does it tie in with the adventure? Is it just a stand alone encounter that has no real significance? |
Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their women! |
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warlockco
Master of Realmslore
USA
1695 Posts |
Posted - 16 Sep 2005 : 07:40:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Ulrik Wolfsbane
I've not seem one D&D minature that I would be proud to own... Am I alone in thinking they are ugly, tacky and a total waste of money? Seriously, if I didn't use GW minis I'd rather use dice or my unpainted KODT figs than those pieces of crap.
I'm curious... The write up for the adventure on the FR site states that the PCs are attacked by orc (assassins?)on their return to Melvaunt. How interesting/meaningful is this encounter? I can imagine it being a little bit of an afterthought and a little bit annoying to players who want to relax after their labours. How does it tie in with the adventure? Is it just a stand alone encounter that has no real significance?
Boy you like to waste money on expensive metal don't you?
GW figs are nice, but they are not the best out there.
For the Price, the D&D Figs are decent, especially since they are "painted."
As to that last encounter, it is part of the plot. |
News of the Weird
D20 System Reference Document
D20 Modern System Reference Document
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Sanishiver
Senior Scribe
USA
476 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2005 : 08:51:48
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Keep in mind issues of practicality.
I'm sure most of us would prefer to have highly detailed miniatures for all NPCs, but the hard reality is we have neither the time, nor the budget, to make that happen.
And some of us like minis in play but aren't all that interested in buying, painting and storing them.
Thus, WotC minis, that are passable enough to use in play (it's usually obvious what the mini represents so you can I.D. them in play).
In my campaign, we use WotC minis and some metal figs for NPCs, while the players contribute their own custom minis for their characters.
J. Grenemyer |
09/20/2008: Tiger Army at the Catalyst in Santa Cruz. You wouldn’t believe how many females rode it out in the pit. Santa Cruz women are all of them beautiful. Now I know to add tough to that description.
6/27/2008: WALL-E is about the best damn movie Pixar has ever made. It had my heart racing and had me rooting for the good guy.
9/9/2006: Dave Mathews Band was off the hook at the Shoreline Amphitheater.
Never, ever read the game books too literally, or make such assumptions that what is omitted cannot be. Bad DM form, that.
And no matter how compelling a picture string theory paints, if it does not accurately describe our universe, it will be no more relevant than an elaborate game of Dungeons and Dragons. --paragraph 1, chapter 9, The Elegant Universe by Brian Greene |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2005 : 08:55:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Gray Richardson
Come to think of it, if you lack orcs, I think Warhammer sells like a box of orcs.
They do, but their orcs range for the LotR strategy battle game are more representative of most fantasy orcs. Although, the combination orc/goblin blister packs for WH are good, but the minis in those packs aren't as randomised as are the LotR orc blister packs.
And now, I think we should turn back to matters pertaining to the Sons of Gruumsh adventure module  .
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 17 Sep 2005 08:57:57 |
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warlockco
Master of Realmslore
USA
1695 Posts |
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Eremite
Learned Scribe
Singapore
182 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2005 : 09:10:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Ulrik Wolfsbane (snip) I'm curious... The write up for the adventure on the FR site states that the PCs are attacked by orc (assassins?)on their return to Melvaunt. How interesting/meaningful is this encounter? I can imagine it being a little bit of an afterthought and a little bit annoying to players who want to relax after their labours. How does it tie in with the adventure? Is it just a stand alone encounter that has no real significance?
It does tie into the adventure and there are probably enough clues to ensure that the encounter can be avoided. However, it is a nice little touch if it does happen. |
Best
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Reefy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
892 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2005 : 18:12:04
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| Hmm, the feedback seems to have been mostly good. And it's a suitable level to run my current group through. Now all I need to do is send them from the Cloud Peaks to the Moonsea... |
Life is either daring adventure or nothing. |
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Eremite
Learned Scribe
Singapore
182 Posts |
Posted - 18 Sep 2005 : 03:43:22
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| The adventure could easily be moved to another location. I'm thinking of running it in the Silver Marches. |
Best
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Crennen FaerieBane
Master of Realmslore
USA
1378 Posts |
Posted - 20 Sep 2005 : 15:27:27
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The Silver Marches can be used quite well, especially with the amount of Orcs that roam the Spine of the World. You could use a fort without such a grand history as in the adventure, but still get it done right. Plus, with all the entrances to the Underdark in the Northwest, it makes more sense for the Orogs to be there to start this whole thing. Plus, you could put it around Mirabar as well, which would work it with the nobles described in the adventure.
C-Fb |
Still rockin' the Fey'ri style. |
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Sanishiver
Senior Scribe
USA
476 Posts |
Posted - 21 Sep 2005 : 07:09:48
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I'm seriously considering modifying this adventure for my own game. I can easily imagine this adventure taking place in the Stonelands, with Cormyrean Nobles substituted in.
Heck, you can pretty much keep everything as is, 'cept for some of the terrain specifics.
Seems to me like the layout for the orc base could be a template of sorts, that the Orcs (or heck, why not Goblins since the Goblin Marches are right next door to the Stonelands?) repeatedly built over and over. With Epic, you’ve gotta start somewhere…
J. Grenemyer |
09/20/2008: Tiger Army at the Catalyst in Santa Cruz. You wouldn’t believe how many females rode it out in the pit. Santa Cruz women are all of them beautiful. Now I know to add tough to that description.
6/27/2008: WALL-E is about the best damn movie Pixar has ever made. It had my heart racing and had me rooting for the good guy.
9/9/2006: Dave Mathews Band was off the hook at the Shoreline Amphitheater.
Never, ever read the game books too literally, or make such assumptions that what is omitted cannot be. Bad DM form, that.
And no matter how compelling a picture string theory paints, if it does not accurately describe our universe, it will be no more relevant than an elaborate game of Dungeons and Dragons. --paragraph 1, chapter 9, The Elegant Universe by Brian Greene |
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Chosen of Moradin
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1120 Posts |
Posted - 21 Sep 2005 : 17:27:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Sanishiver
I'm seriously considering modifying this adventure for my own game. I can easily imagine this adventure taking place in the Stonelands, with Cormyrean Nobles substituted in.
Heck, you can pretty much keep everything as is, 'cept for some of the terrain specifics.
Seems to me like the layout for the orc base could be a template of sorts, that the Orcs (or heck, why not Goblins since the Goblin Marches are right next door to the Stonelands?) repeatedly built over and over. With Epic, you’ve gotta start somewhere…
J. Grenemyer
Good idea, Sanishiver!
To suport it, I recomend strongly the 2nd edition Elminster Ecologies tome. The booklet about the Goblin Marches and the Stonelands is full of good lore. Maybe the orog is pretending to be Hlundadim, returning to unite the goblinoids of the region to their former glory. There you will find too a good description of various tribes, and of the way of the land... take a look at it. 
Chosen of Moradin
P.S.: Wuurraah!!! My 200th scroll!  |
Dwarf, DM, husband, and proud of this! :P
twitter: @yuripeixoto
Facebook: yuri.peixoto |
Edited by - Chosen of Moradin on 21 Sep 2005 17:28:53 |
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Sanishiver
Senior Scribe
USA
476 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2005 : 00:36:22
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I believe that Great Minds (TM) think alike.
Thus, both the Chosen of Moradin and I are Great!
....
On a whim I picked up Elminster's Ecologies via EBay last month and was pleasantly surprised by all the Stonelands-Specific info included therein.
Do you (C.O.M.) plan on using the adventure in Cormyr?
J. Grenemyer |
09/20/2008: Tiger Army at the Catalyst in Santa Cruz. You wouldn’t believe how many females rode it out in the pit. Santa Cruz women are all of them beautiful. Now I know to add tough to that description.
6/27/2008: WALL-E is about the best damn movie Pixar has ever made. It had my heart racing and had me rooting for the good guy.
9/9/2006: Dave Mathews Band was off the hook at the Shoreline Amphitheater.
Never, ever read the game books too literally, or make such assumptions that what is omitted cannot be. Bad DM form, that.
And no matter how compelling a picture string theory paints, if it does not accurately describe our universe, it will be no more relevant than an elaborate game of Dungeons and Dragons. --paragraph 1, chapter 9, The Elegant Universe by Brian Greene |
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Chosen of Moradin
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1120 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2005 : 14:42:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Sanishiver
I believe that Great Minds (TM) think alike.
Thus, both the Chosen of Moradin and I are Great!
....
On a whim I picked up Elminster's Ecologies via EBay last month and was pleasantly surprised by all the Stonelands-Specific info included therein.
Do you (C.O.M.) plan on using the adventure in Cormyr?
J. Grenemyer
Well, I really find the idea of use this adventure in Cormyr interesting, when I read here the coments about the book. But I think that will not be possible, because that are no mention of this book coming to our stores here in Brazil . Probably, it will came in the middle or end of next month, and my group is already going in direction of the Stonelands (I was reading the Elminster Ecologies yesterday to prepare to my game session, when I write that post )... |
Dwarf, DM, husband, and proud of this! :P
twitter: @yuripeixoto
Facebook: yuri.peixoto |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 26 Sep 2005 : 05:51:18
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I like where the module is set, and after having read through most of it, and modified it to fit my higher level PCs (though I haven't run it yet), there is a lot I really like about it. I was really afraid that it was going to be a bare bones, vaguely set in the Forgotten Realms hackfest that ties into the minis by saying, "use mini X on tile Y" and it would degenerate into a mini skirmish not unlike the Star Wars Ultimate Mission books.
As it is, it has quite a bit of flavor, and I really like using Melvaunt, playing up some Zhent emissaries, mentioning the other orc tribes in Thar, the tombs of the orc kings, passages to the Underdark and the like. Xul Jarek is very evocative of ancient orcish power.
My only question in all of that is that I always pictures the Ogres in Thar having some pretty impressive kingdoms as well, so I would love to see follow up adventures in Thar that dive into the Ogres place in current and past history.
And for some reason I have always (and especially after Death of the Dragon) seen the goblins as having more up their sleeves in the Stonelands as far as hidden fortresses and the like, but that may just be me. |
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EvilKnight
Learned Scribe
USA
162 Posts |
Posted - 28 Sep 2005 : 17:45:18
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Hello fellow scribes,
Those of you working with Sons of Gruumsh, I would appreciate you reviewing a new Index for it : http://evilknight.home.att.net/HTML_Index/SoG.
It will eventually be compiled into a larger index across multiple sources if the project gets off the ground. If you see changes that need to be made please review the file formatting link for how to make entries. Otherwise just send an email with suggestions or post here or under the topic Database of FR Entries here: http://www.candlekeep.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4946
Remember the idea is to get entries that would be of interest to scribes maybe years from now. I will set up a credits page for scribes contributing to the indexes.
EvilKnight |
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Sanishiver
Senior Scribe
USA
476 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2005 : 06:22:00
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I'd say "Wow!".
Looks like I've got something to look at in detail this weekend. |
09/20/2008: Tiger Army at the Catalyst in Santa Cruz. You wouldn’t believe how many females rode it out in the pit. Santa Cruz women are all of them beautiful. Now I know to add tough to that description.
6/27/2008: WALL-E is about the best damn movie Pixar has ever made. It had my heart racing and had me rooting for the good guy.
9/9/2006: Dave Mathews Band was off the hook at the Shoreline Amphitheater.
Never, ever read the game books too literally, or make such assumptions that what is omitted cannot be. Bad DM form, that.
And no matter how compelling a picture string theory paints, if it does not accurately describe our universe, it will be no more relevant than an elaborate game of Dungeons and Dragons. --paragraph 1, chapter 9, The Elegant Universe by Brian Greene |
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Mr. Wilson
Seeker
USA
73 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2005 : 09:16:33
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I'm late but.......
Having read the adventure, I'm a little concerned that it may be a bit much for a 4th level party. Having not run it yet, does the party garner enough XP to survive the BBEG, even when he's not donning his armor? |
"I've got a plan..."- Dan
"Nothing good has ever come after those four words." - Jesse |
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warlockco
Master of Realmslore
USA
1695 Posts |
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Crennen FaerieBane
Master of Realmslore
USA
1378 Posts |
Posted - 19 Oct 2005 : 04:03:04
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I am currently planning on running it this weekend for the wife, so I will see what works and if it's possible to beat the final dude without the armor.
C-Fb |
Still rockin' the Fey'ri style. |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 19 Oct 2005 : 04:38:40
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Ill probably end up sliding SoG into the evil campaign with the following revisions
1)Replace Melvaunt with Zhentil Keep
2)Replace the Nobles with Zhent agents
3)Change Livkus Arthantar to a Cleric of Cyric
4)Move the module to the Western end of the Moonsea |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Sons of Gruumsh
