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jaciris
Acolyte
Philippines
7 Posts |
 Posted - 30 Oct 2004 : 16:47:48
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I'm trying to compile the Mightiest Beings in the World of Faerun
So far I have Asmodeus, Elminster, Khelben Blackstaff, Halaster
does Sarevok & Abdel count because they are Bhaalspawn......
Is Demogorgoth powerful.....because in the game BG:Throne of Bhaal he was.....
I need to know this
especially who the most powerful Dragon is
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Edited by - Alaundo on 30 Oct 2004 17:48:18
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2004 : 18:11:27
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jaciris, Demogorgon is THE Prince of Demons. He is probably the most powerful demon in the Abyss.
Other characters you should add:
Larloch the Lich-King: Even more powerful than Elminster or Halaster.
The Simbul
Shurrupak: Probably the greatest fighter in the Realms right now. |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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Valdar Oakensong
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
159 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2004 : 18:19:26
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Should you include all of the Seven Sisters? Apart from the dead one whose name embarrassingly escapes me |
Guns don't kill people, magic missiles do. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2004 : 18:22:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Valdar Oakensong
Should you include all of the Seven Sisters? Apart from the dead one whose name embarrassingly escapes me
Syluné is the dead one. The others are Storm Silverhand, Dove Falconhand, Laeral, Alustriel, the Simbul, and Qilué Veladorn. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2004 : 20:34:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Valdar Oakensong
Should you include all of the Seven Sisters? Apart from the dead one whose name embarrassingly escapes me
Well, the Simbul is probably the most powerful one out of all the Seven Sisters. The other ones are powerful, but I don't think they match up to the others on the list. |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2004 : 23:01:15
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Dove has barely any magic, and is basically just "Chosen" without more than a few spells of her own. Storm is in almost the same boat, but has several more spells. What their relative power levels are, I don't know.
Sylune may be dead, but she's still around. That's why they're the Seven Sisters, not the Six.
There are plenty others, but it really depends on what you define power as. Just supernatural power? Or do you want muscle power and skill as well? What about political power? Economic power? |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2004 : 15:15:54
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quote:
Originally posted by jaciris
So far I have Asmodeus, Elminster, Khelben Blackstaff, Halaster
I really do not think it is appropriate to place Asmodeus in the same category of power as the Chosen.
The Lord of the Ninth's power would likely put him on par with Ao himself, or maybe even beyond that. The powers and abilities of the Chosen, while spectacular, would fall far short of being able to combat such an entity.
Besides all that, Asmodeus is not strictly a part of the Realms cosmology. There is the belief that each and every "Asmodeus" that is encountered outside of the Core cosmology, is just an aspect of the Lord of the Ninth's true form which lies battered and broken in the depths of the Nine Hells of Baator. If this particular theory is true, then it's just as likely that even Ao himself would be a poor contender should a reason for conflict ever develop between them.
I'm not saying you can't do it... it's just that it is not really an appropriate assumption.
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Arteris
Learned Scribe
121 Posts |
Posted - 03 Nov 2004 : 22:51:38
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Im relativly new to the Realms seeing as how I've only been playing for roughly a year and a half (I also have no knowledge of 2E or below, I've only been introduced to 3E and up), and I was wondering.. Who exactly is Asmodeus.. If thats possible to answer without refering to 2E? (Also, if the answer is gonna be too drawn out and you dont feel like answering because of that, I understand )
As for most powerful beings in Faerun, I wouldnt consider Abdel or Saravok all that powerful.. Mainly because I've only read (know of) one book with them in it(which I didnt like I might add ).. They just didnt do anything overly powerful or worth mention.
I suppose you might consider Szass Tam powerful, since he (in terms of lich life) is relativly young, and hes only going to get more powerful from here on.
Manshoon anyone?
And lets not forget Fzoul Chembryl
I believe Shurrupak was mentioned already.. And thats all I got right now
Also I was wondering about in what book might I find reference too Larloch the Lich-King, Im equally clueless about him as I am Asmodeous
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 04 Nov 2004 : 02:02:52
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Before I begin, let me just say this... I prefer for Asmodeus to be a great mystery.
Now, onto the lore...
We know his general goals, of course - conquest of the Multiverse, annihilation of chaos and good, every soul dancing to his every gesture and word. As the ultimate personification of evil law, that's to be expected. We also know something of his M.O. - plans and schemes of near-infinite complexity, filled with misdirections and multiple steps that each increase his goals in innumerable ways. He likes to use the gods themselves as pawns, manipulating them in order to discredit them and give more credit to devilkind, channeling the power and belief towards Baator. Although it will always seem like he is not doing this.
But his nature, his true appearance - that's tougher. Baatezu are creatures of lies and illusion. Their nobles hide behind multiple names and identities, trading aspects like they trade mortal souls. And the Overlord of Hell, Emperor of Baatezu, the Dark Lord of Nessus, the Deepest of the Nine, the Subtle Serpent of Ultimate Law, the Prince of All Darkness, the Grandfather of Lies, the steel corruption that Shall Not Be Named - he or it is the greatest deceiver of his kind. Or so it is said.
This is not to say Asmodeus does not manifest himself in a form perceivable by his minions. It is said he is handsome, the most handsome of the Lords of the Nine, a study in the perfection of the humanoid form, and built along gigantic proportions. He has a neatly trimmed, pointed goatee, and eyes which are black voids leading into endless oblivion and sorrow, with serpentine rings of flame spiralling down into an infinite trench. He wears splendid, aristrocratic robes, and a crown, as befits a monarch. He is a calm and genteel speaker, though there are legendary accounts of his rages. His forehead sprouts two small horns.
And this form is a lie. And he has many other forms, each as false as the last. And if, deep within the chasms of Nessus, he has a true form, it is not spoken of.
To paraphrase Alan Moore:
"But... we've met Asmodeus before! He didn't look like that!"
Asmodeus: "I don't look like anything."
Finally, if you're looking for a 3e conversion and information on the Lord of the Ninth (as I prefer to call him), look to the Book of Vile Darkness. It's not a grand or noble conversion, and it really leaves such an awesome being wanting, but it's the only official interpretation that we have.
Enjoy  .
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Dracandos the Spellsage
Senior Scribe
466 Posts |
Posted - 05 Nov 2004 : 03:13:16
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quote:
Originally posted by jaciris
I'm trying to compile the Mightiest Beings in the World of Faerun
So far I have Asmodeus, Elminster, Khelben Blackstaff, Halaster
u may want 2 consider Vecna |
Death strips away the masks men don to hide their true nature - The Slayer's Guide to Undead
The Lord of Murder shall perish, but in his doom he shall spawn a score of mortal progeny. Chaos shall be sown from their passage - So Sayeth the Wise Alaundo
Whenever magic one doth weave, 'tis never ever wise to deceive - Elminster
Strength and power come from knowing and controlling what others do not, but never reveal all that you know - Vecna
I have been known to cast a blue mage spell now and again - Dracandos the Spellsage |
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Dracandos the Spellsage
Senior Scribe
466 Posts |
Posted - 05 Nov 2004 : 03:14:39
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
the Lord of the Ninth's true form which lies battered and broken in the depths of the Nine Hells of Baator.
how did his tru from become in such a state exactly? also, the fact that he has no tru form...does this mean he is more of an essense? but how could this be if his tru form lies in the 9th lvl? |
Death strips away the masks men don to hide their true nature - The Slayer's Guide to Undead
The Lord of Murder shall perish, but in his doom he shall spawn a score of mortal progeny. Chaos shall be sown from their passage - So Sayeth the Wise Alaundo
Whenever magic one doth weave, 'tis never ever wise to deceive - Elminster
Strength and power come from knowing and controlling what others do not, but never reveal all that you know - Vecna
I have been known to cast a blue mage spell now and again - Dracandos the Spellsage |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 05 Nov 2004 : 06:31:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Dracandos the Spellsage
quote:
Originally posted by jaciris
I'm trying to compile the Mightiest Beings in the World of Faerun
So far I have Asmodeus, Elminster, Khelben Blackstaff, Halaster
u may want 2 consider Vecna
To the best of my knowledge, Vecna has never had any influence in the Realms. He was in Greyhawk and then Ravenloft, but I can't recall any references to his presence in the Realms. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Forlorn
Seeker
59 Posts |
Posted - 05 Nov 2004 : 21:05:57
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Before I begin, let me just say this... I prefer for Asmodeus to be a great mystery.
Now, onto the lore...
We know his general goals, of course - conquest of the Multiverse, annihilation of chaos and good, every soul dancing to his every gesture and word. As the ultimate personification of evil law, that's to be expected. We also know something of his M.O. - plans and schemes of near-infinite complexity, filled with misdirections and multiple steps that each increase his goals in innumerable ways. He likes to use the gods themselves as pawns, manipulating them in order to discredit them and give more credit to devilkind, channeling the power and belief towards Baator. Although it will always seem like he is not doing this.
But his nature, his true appearance - that's tougher. Baatezu are creatures of lies and illusion. Their nobles hide behind multiple names and identities, trading aspects like they trade mortal souls. And the Overlord of Hell, Emperor of Baatezu, the Dark Lord of Nessus, the Deepest of the Nine, the Subtle Serpent of Ultimate Law, the Prince of All Darkness, the Grandfather of Lies, the steel corruption that Shall Not Be Named - he or it is the greatest deceiver of his kind. Or so it is said.
This is not to say Asmodeus does not manifest himself in a form perceivable by his minions. It is said he is handsome, the most handsome of the Lords of the Nine, a study in the perfection of the humanoid form, and built along gigantic proportions. He has a neatly trimmed, pointed goatee, and eyes which are black voids leading into endless oblivion and sorrow, with serpentine rings of flame spiralling down into an infinite trench. He wears splendid, aristrocratic robes, and a crown, as befits a monarch. He is a calm and genteel speaker, though there are legendary accounts of his rages. His forehead sprouts two small horns.
And this form is a lie. And he has many other forms, each as false as the last. And if, deep within the chasms of Nessus, he has a true form, it is not spoken of.
To paraphrase Alan Moore:
"But... we've met Asmodeus before! He didn't look like that!"
Asmodeus: "I don't look like anything."
Finally, if you're looking for a 3e conversion and information on the Lord of the Ninth (as I prefer to call him), look to the Book of Vile Darkness. It's not a grand or noble conversion, and it really leaves such an awesome being wanting, but it's the only official interpretation that we have.
Enjoy .
Well if he is longing to contol the multiverse and he is manipulating the gods, isn't he a powerful figure nearly as powerful as Ao himself.
I don't know anything about planescape but I heard about a Lady of Pain who is giving pain to Ao' s kind.
My point is if Asmodeus is such powerful can he used to be one of Ao's kind and perished by the Lady herself or another being that is as powerful as her and if Asmodeus gains enough power can he overcome Ao to do whatever he wants to do to realms?
Can he have that kind of potential cuz if he has he is the mightiest being around Fearun. |
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Dracandos the Spellsage
Senior Scribe
466 Posts |
Posted - 05 Nov 2004 : 21:23:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Forlorn
Well if he is longing to contol the multiverse and he is manipulating the gods, isn't he a powerful figure nearly as powerful as Ao himself.
I don't know anything about planescape but I heard about a Lady of Pain who is giving pain to Ao' s kind.
My point is if Asmodeus is such powerful can he used to be one of Ao's kind and perished by the Lady herself or another being that is as powerful as her and if Asmodeus gains enough power can he overcome Ao to do whatever he wants to do to realms?
Can he have that kind of potential cuz if he has he is the mightiest being around Fearun.
well as a wise man once said:quote:
Originally posted by Alaundo
To me, Ao is the highest power, there is no greater. As I see it, Ao is a force, a power, not a being as such. The booming voice of command and power, if you will.
i agree with this. 2 me, Ao's power cannot be rivaled. it is like god and the devil in our world. of course the devil is powerful, but god is supreme...or so it is said by christians |
Death strips away the masks men don to hide their true nature - The Slayer's Guide to Undead
The Lord of Murder shall perish, but in his doom he shall spawn a score of mortal progeny. Chaos shall be sown from their passage - So Sayeth the Wise Alaundo
Whenever magic one doth weave, 'tis never ever wise to deceive - Elminster
Strength and power come from knowing and controlling what others do not, but never reveal all that you know - Vecna
I have been known to cast a blue mage spell now and again - Dracandos the Spellsage |
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Forlorn
Seeker
59 Posts |
Posted - 05 Nov 2004 : 21:42:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Dracandos the Spellsage
quote:
Originally posted by Forlorn
Well if he is longing to contol the multiverse and he is manipulating the gods, isn't he a powerful figure nearly as powerful as Ao himself.
I don't know anything about planescape but I heard about a Lady of Pain who is giving pain to Ao' s kind.
My point is if Asmodeus is such powerful can he used to be one of Ao's kind and perished by the Lady herself or another being that is as powerful as her and if Asmodeus gains enough power can he overcome Ao to do whatever he wants to do to realms?
Can he have that kind of potential cuz if he has he is the mightiest being around Fearun.
well as a wise man once said:quote:
Originally posted by Alaundo
To me, Ao is the highest power, there is no greater. As I see it, Ao is a force, a power, not a being as such. The booming voice of command and power, if you will.
i agree with this. 2 me, Ao's power cannot be rivaled. it is like god and the devil in our world. of course the devil is powerful, but god is supreme...or so it is said by christians
Well to me Ao is sth stronger than the gods of Fearun but sth weaker than an unknown power which is not important.
I m not questioning Ao's power, I m questioning the limits of the power of Asmodeus.
However you are right Ao is the absolute power in Fearun at least for now. But at least if Ao has a superior he can be replaced by sth evil not neutral for a while which would last a milenia for mortals. Maybe Asmodeus was once one who tried to be the one rebeled to Ao or he was before Ao.
I m questioning Asmodeus' secret background and power according to the secret lore only some wizards of the coast know and common sence.
"Crack" Alaundo hits Forlorn with his mighty staff to give an example.
Of course Alaundo is right too, uhhhh my head, Forlorn adds. |
Edited by - Forlorn on 05 Nov 2004 21:48:40 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 06 Nov 2004 : 09:07:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Forlorn
... I m questioning the limits of the power of Asmodeus.
Unless the Grand Master Sage allows a certain leeway with what can be discussed here at Candlekeep, I cannot effectively answer your question, other than to say that, as an entity who existed before Creation itself, there is no limit to the power of the Lord of the Ninth.
It is just the application of that power by Asmodeus, which is limited... At present, he cannot effectively make use of the entirety of his powers due to the injuries he sustained to his physical form during his battle with Jazirian, and, after his fall, which created the Pits of Baator.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 06 Nov 2004 : 09:19:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Dracandos the Spellsage
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
the Lord of the Ninth's true form which lies battered and broken in the depths of the Nine Hells of Baator.
how did his tru from become in such a state exactly? also, the fact that he has no tru form...does this mean he is more of an essense? but how could this be if his tru form lies in the 9th lvl?
Many of the answers to your questions are tied up in as many threads of speculation as there is layers of the Abyss.
Basically, the LotN's true form (which no beings -- divine or otherwise -- have ever seen) was greatly wounded by the release of cosmic-level energies during his final battle with Jazirian. You see, both Jazirian and Asmodeus sought to shape the then emerging multiverse (which was at the time, nothing more than essences of belief) in his/her own image of what they believed would be the "best" form for the infant domain. Naturally, this lead to conflict between the two view points of law and chaos, and so, battle ensued. Both entities were severely damaged by the blows they landed upon each other, until both were forced to abandon the other (which gave rise to the Outlands, or the Concordat Opposition in the old tongue ) and retreat to the most extreme points of the multiverse then in existence (the Mount Celestial and the Pits of Baator). In both domains, each entity began the long process of recovering from their battle, and securing their positions.
As for the LotN's true form residing on the Ninth Layer, it is probably more appropriate to conceive that the Ninth Layer *is* the true form of Asmodeus, and that the entity most arch-devils encounter is nothing more than a physical construct birthed from the surrounding terrain and given a portion of the LotN's consciousness (think Neth, then you'll have some idea about what I'm chattering away about  ).
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 06 Nov 2004 09:21:43 |
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Alaundo
Head Moderator
United Kingdom
5692 Posts |
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Dracandos the Spellsage
Senior Scribe
466 Posts |
Posted - 06 Nov 2004 : 17:31:01
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Basically, the LotN's true form (which no beings -- divine or otherwise -- have ever seen) was greatly wounded by the release of cosmic-level energies during his final battle with Jazirian. You see, both Jazirian and Asmodeus sought to shape the then emerging multiverse (which was at the time, nothing more than essences of belief) in his/her own image of what they believed would be the "best" form for the infant domain. Naturally, this lead to conflict between the two view points of law and chaos, and so, battle ensued. Both entities were severely damaged by the blows they landed upon each other, until both were forced to abandon the other (which gave rise to the Outlands, or the Concordat Opposition in the old tongue ) and retreat to the most extreme points of the multiverse then in existence (the Mount Celestial and the Pits of Baator). In both domains, each entity began the long process of recovering from their battle, and securing their positions.
As for the LotN's true form residing on the Ninth Layer, it is probably more appropriate to conceive that the Ninth Layer *is* the true form of Asmodeus, and that the entity most arch-devils encounter is nothing more than a physical construct birthed from the surrounding terrain and given a portion of the LotN's consciousness (think Neth, then you'll have some idea about what I'm chattering away about ).
hmm...the only thing i am still confused about is if Asmodeous' power has no end, why was this battle not one sided? why is his 'true form' lying battered and broken on the Ninth Layer? or was Jazirian's power just as infinite? also, who is this Jazirian? why is his name not as well known as Asmodeous? or is this Spellsage just ignorant? also...how in the Nine Hells do you know all of this Sage?! |
Death strips away the masks men don to hide their true nature - The Slayer's Guide to Undead
The Lord of Murder shall perish, but in his doom he shall spawn a score of mortal progeny. Chaos shall be sown from their passage - So Sayeth the Wise Alaundo
Whenever magic one doth weave, 'tis never ever wise to deceive - Elminster
Strength and power come from knowing and controlling what others do not, but never reveal all that you know - Vecna
I have been known to cast a blue mage spell now and again - Dracandos the Spellsage |
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Dracandos the Spellsage
Senior Scribe
466 Posts |
Posted - 06 Nov 2004 : 17:33:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Alaundo
::turns a blind eye to the conversation occuring in the side chamber, then presses his ear against the door in interest at what is being discussed::
come on in Alaundo! |
Death strips away the masks men don to hide their true nature - The Slayer's Guide to Undead
The Lord of Murder shall perish, but in his doom he shall spawn a score of mortal progeny. Chaos shall be sown from their passage - So Sayeth the Wise Alaundo
Whenever magic one doth weave, 'tis never ever wise to deceive - Elminster
Strength and power come from knowing and controlling what others do not, but never reveal all that you know - Vecna
I have been known to cast a blue mage spell now and again - Dracandos the Spellsage |
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Forlorn
Seeker
59 Posts |
Posted - 06 Nov 2004 : 20:55:51
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I think Sage doesn't want to get in to this argument too much cuz it involves planescape information and Alaundo rarely allows discussions that is not about Realms. Ahhh, and he is right :).
And for me I don't know the background of Asmodeus and Jazirian but I know they were too equevilant powers whose concerns was not how to gain worshipers to be storonger but how to rule the multiverse and that is the proof of their power. maybe they were omniputent(correct me is I spelled wrong) like Ao, maybe their entity is not know like the Lady of Pain but there is one thing for sure they are great powers.
If our issue is Asmodeus the question should be what he wants from Fearun instead of how strong he is.
That's my conlusion about Asmodeus. There is no argument but my ideas. Please do not neglect that.
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2004 : 05:33:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Dracandos the Spellsage
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Basically, the LotN's true form (which no beings -- divine or otherwise -- have ever seen) was greatly wounded by the release of cosmic-level energies during his final battle with Jazirian. You see, both Jazirian and Asmodeus sought to shape the then emerging multiverse (which was at the time, nothing more than essences of belief) in his/her own image of what they believed would be the "best" form for the infant domain. Naturally, this lead to conflict between the two view points of law and chaos, and so, battle ensued. Both entities were severely damaged by the blows they landed upon each other, until both were forced to abandon the other (which gave rise to the Outlands, or the Concordat Opposition in the old tongue ) and retreat to the most extreme points of the multiverse then in existence (the Mount Celestial and the Pits of Baator). In both domains, each entity began the long process of recovering from their battle, and securing their positions.
As for the LotN's true form residing on the Ninth Layer, it is probably more appropriate to conceive that the Ninth Layer *is* the true form of Asmodeus, and that the entity most arch-devils encounter is nothing more than a physical construct birthed from the surrounding terrain and given a portion of the LotN's consciousness (think Neth, then you'll have some idea about what I'm chattering away about ).
hmm...the only thing i am still confused about is if Asmodeous' power has no end, why was this battle not one sided? why is his 'true form' lying battered and broken on the Ninth Layer? or was Jazirian's power just as infinite? also, who is this Jazirian? why is his name not as well known as Asmodeous? or is this Spellsage just ignorant? also...how in the Nine Hells do you know all of this Sage?!
I should note that the interpretation that I've given above, is just one of several that has been printed in various tomes throughout 1st and 2nd editions.
The battle between Jazirian and Asmodeus was never one-sided because each had an equal measure of power in which to battle the other. Asmodeus's form is battered and broken, because he "fell". As Jazirian, who is covered in the next paragraph, flew to a place high above the infant multiverse (which at the time, was the tip of Mount Celestia).
Jazirian is the immensely powerful and entirely wise god/goddess of the couatl. He/she (I reference this deity as such because "it" is simultaneously sexless and hermaphroditic), is the spiritual manifestation of the World Serpent, and is usually regarded as being "above it all"... She/he is considered by many races to be the ultimate form of Law.
And, as to how I know all this... through "study", my fellow sage... "study"...
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2004 : 05:55:23
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| Sage, why was this Jazirian not mentioned in the Books of Exalted Deeds then? Also, I thought Zaphkiel was the one who was like the most powerful at Mount Celestial. |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2004 : 06:10:35
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That's simply because the one interpretation I provided above about the conflict between Jazirian and Asmodeus is only championed by one or two game designers. To most of the TSR/WotC community, Jazirian is usually not seen to occupy the same scale or level of power as the Lord of the Ninth.
In fact, other than a few 2e tomes, Jazirian has been largely forgotten with the advent of 3e.
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Dracandos the Spellsage
Senior Scribe
466 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2004 : 17:17:36
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
And, as to how I know all this... through "study", my fellow sage... "study"...
well ive read a fair share of tomes as ive strolled down these halls and ive collected a deal of tomes as ive travelled these lands as well...but i have not a sliver of the knowedge you possess. is there anyway i can Mind Leach you? ive heard they are relatively painless
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
In fact, other than a few 2e tomes, Jazirian has been largely forgotten with the advent of 3e.
thats what i wondered about...why is his name unknown to me? now dont get me wrong, i am no master of realmslore...but i have at least heard of most of the 'vips' if you will of the FR. but it seems like he should be someone that everyone is aware of |
Death strips away the masks men don to hide their true nature - The Slayer's Guide to Undead
The Lord of Murder shall perish, but in his doom he shall spawn a score of mortal progeny. Chaos shall be sown from their passage - So Sayeth the Wise Alaundo
Whenever magic one doth weave, 'tis never ever wise to deceive - Elminster
Strength and power come from knowing and controlling what others do not, but never reveal all that you know - Vecna
I have been known to cast a blue mage spell now and again - Dracandos the Spellsage |
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Panador
Acolyte
Austria
28 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2004 : 21:52:46
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Sorry if this sounds dumb, I'm not very versed in FR realmslore except for the things I know from the about 50 FR books I've read.
Why is Asmodeus supposed to be so very powerful? Near the end of Elminster in Hell Halaster clouded his mind so he won't attack. So Halaster, a "normal" human, even though in service of Mystra, was able to cast a spell on him that changed his memory and intentions so why should Asmodeus be able to compete with Ao?
Mightiest Beings? Just off the top of my head: Sibyl, Elminster, Halaster, Demogorgon, Asmodeus, Manshoon, Shandril, Alusair, Mordenkainen
btw. Who's this Shurrupak? Mightiest fighter? Far better than Drizzt? |
*Still thinking about a signature...* |
Edited by - Panador on 07 Nov 2004 22:04:02 |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2004 : 23:16:00
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Panador, Halaster didn't cast the spell, Mystra herself did. THe Goddess of Magic merely transferred his mental illness into Asmodeus. Besides, I suspect that it's only temporary, as someone as powerful as Asmodeus wouldn't be affected for long.
As for Shurrpak, he could take on Drizzt AND Artemis Entreri together and still probably win. He is a Fighter 20/Rogue 3/Wizard 7. This is the same man who had once been the Chosen of Gilgeam, before the god had died. Shurrupak is an outlaw in Unther and Mulhorand, but he moves freely because no one is willing to confront this insane and skilled fighter. |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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Dracandos the Spellsage
Senior Scribe
466 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2004 : 23:43:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Panador
Why is Asmodeus supposed to be so very powerful? Near the end of Elminster in Hell Halaster clouded his mind so he won't attack. So Halaster, a "normal" human, even though in service of Mystra, was able to cast a spell on him that changed his memory and intentions so why should Asmodeus be able to compete with Ao?
halaster halaster...from what do i know this name? |
Death strips away the masks men don to hide their true nature - The Slayer's Guide to Undead
The Lord of Murder shall perish, but in his doom he shall spawn a score of mortal progeny. Chaos shall be sown from their passage - So Sayeth the Wise Alaundo
Whenever magic one doth weave, 'tis never ever wise to deceive - Elminster
Strength and power come from knowing and controlling what others do not, but never reveal all that you know - Vecna
I have been known to cast a blue mage spell now and again - Dracandos the Spellsage |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
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Dracandos the Spellsage
Senior Scribe
466 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2004 : 05:28:55
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| ah yes my thanks...however i am now remembered of why that name is familiar, a subject from a personal story but with a different spelling of the name |
Death strips away the masks men don to hide their true nature - The Slayer's Guide to Undead
The Lord of Murder shall perish, but in his doom he shall spawn a score of mortal progeny. Chaos shall be sown from their passage - So Sayeth the Wise Alaundo
Whenever magic one doth weave, 'tis never ever wise to deceive - Elminster
Strength and power come from knowing and controlling what others do not, but never reveal all that you know - Vecna
I have been known to cast a blue mage spell now and again - Dracandos the Spellsage |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2004 : 14:37:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Dracandos the Spellsage
well ive read a fair share of tomes as ive strolled down these halls and ive collected a deal of tomes as ive travelled these lands as well...but i have not a sliver of the knowedge you possess. is there anyway i can Mind Leach you? ive heard they are relatively painless
 ... Maybe I should change my avatar back to my last image... the one that had the translucent skullcap... That way, it might make it easier for you to make use of this mind leach that you mention .
quote:
Originally posted by Dracandos the Spellsage
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
In fact, other than a few 2e tomes, Jazirian has been largely forgotten with the advent of 3e.
thats what i wondered about...why is his name unknown to me? now dont get me wrong, i am no master of realmslore...but i have at least heard of most of the 'vips' if you will of the FR. but it seems like he should be someone that everyone is aware of
Jazirian is an "it". This deity is genderless... remember  .
Jazirian has little to do with the events of the FR setting, and that's likely due to the fact that the Realms has a very small couatl population. I would assume that "its" name is spoken and revered here and there in certain places sacred to the couatl of the Realms, but very few people in the Realms would actually know about this.
In fact, the only place I'd expect to see a greater emphasis on Jazirian and his/her connection to couatl worship is in the Eberron setting. It's even been speculated that the ancient population of couatl on Khorvaire may have, at one time, venerated an aspect of Jazirian.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Mightiest Beings
