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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
 Posted - 01 Sep 2005 : 18:11:28
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There are probably as many way to write a multi-author story as there are permutations of authors. This is the first time I wrote a book with another person, so I basically clueless, and Ed, ever the gentleman, deferred the method to me, so we ended up figuring things out as we went along. There were no tidy past-and-present divisions, but we split up the first-draft writing on a scene-by-scene basis and sent things back and forth a lot. Most of the new characters evolved and changed quite a bit during the various revision phases.
There's a fairly detailed description of process in the interview we did for the WotC website.
http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=books/fr/citysplendorsinterview |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2005 : 02:53:02
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Well I'm now 200+ pages into CoS. And even though it is such a great novel (a shining example of some of both Ed and Elaine's best work), I'm starting to find myself feeling a little like Kuje was earlier... in that it is difficult to comment on the novel so far.
That's not a bad thing -- there's just so much going on, so focusing on crucial story elements is very important. And I find that is why I'm enjoying it so much... simply because the story is so "concentrated"... on Realmslore and the characters themselves.
I'll comment more as I continue reading.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Kajehase
Great Reader
Sweden
2104 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2005 : 06:11:16
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And according to the mail-order bookstore I employ - my copy of this book is now on its way (*grumbles* only took them 2 weeks). If I weren't so tired from work I'd be giddy with excitement. |
There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2005 : 06:15:14
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I've only got about one hundred pages left now.
One interesting little tidbit of note that was dropped in previously, the reference to the Old Xoblob Shop and Dandalus. I was so happy to see it included in this novel . Extra marks for you Ed  .
The only disappointing things about its use in CoS... was the fact that the hollow pillar wasn't used and poor ol' Hlondaglus wasn't mentioned  .
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Kajehase
Great Reader
Sweden
2104 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2005 : 14:21:38
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I finished the book this morning after a break for sleep and work during the night had stopped me from reading it all in one go.
Not going to make any detailed comments yet, except to say that it is well written, and the plot feels somewhat more focused than some other books by Ed (which I also liked). Compared to Elaine's other work in the Realms I'd say it's about average - it does not quite the heights of Windwalker, Elfshadow, or Dream Spheres, but it is still an enjoyable and good read.
And as has been said by others before me, the dedication is most appreciated. Thank you Ed and Elaine. |
There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett |
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VEDSICA
Senior Scribe
USA
466 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2005 : 01:37:15
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| Does Maskar Wands make it into the book???Hopefully this isn't a spoiler question |
LIFE,BIRTH,BLOOD,DOOM---THE HOLE IN THE GROUND IS COMING ROUND SOON----BLS |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2005 : 01:39:19
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quote:
Originally posted by VEDSICA
Does Maskar Wands make it into the book???Hopefully this isn't a spoiler question
Nay, he doesn't. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
USA
1707 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2005 : 13:52:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
quote:
Originally posted by VEDSICA
Does Maskar Wands make it into the book???Hopefully this isn't a spoiler question
Nay, he doesn't. :)
Good thing I've put him in BLACKSTAFF, then.....  |
For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
2067 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2005 : 15:05:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Skeptic
Yeah.. like for example : Hey guys, there's a new Umberlee temple in the harbor.. the lords? They don't seem to bother.. and that's all about it 
The temple was under construction in 1369 DR, as per Cloak & Dagger (see the write-up of the Kraken Society). Five years later ,it's finally finished.
There was not room to give details on every faith and its activities in Waterdeep.
--Eric |
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http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/ |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2005 : 15:07:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend
Good thing I've put him in BLACKSTAFF, then.....
Oh Steven... you tease!
That's good to hear . I wonder what role he'll play...
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 07 Sep 2005 15:09:10 |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6648 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2005 : 00:53:00
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Didn't you know? Maskar Wands is but one of the many aliases of Larloch the Ultralich. Beware, Larloch is everywhere!
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2005 : 01:35:55
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Didn't you know? Maskar Wands is but one of the many aliases of Larloch the Ultralich. Beware, Larloch is everywhere!
-- George Krashos
Oddly enough, so is Bidderdoo Harpell.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Melfius
Senior Scribe
USA
516 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2005 : 02:23:37
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| I just KNEW there was something wrong with that Bidderdoo! |
Melfius, Pixie-Priest of Puck - Head Chef, The Faerie Kitchen, Candlekeep Inn
"What's in his pockets, besides me?"
Read a tale of my earlier days! - Happiness Comes in Small Packages |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2005 : 02:38:23
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Didn't you know? Maskar Wands is but one of the many aliases of Larloch the Ultralich. Beware, Larloch is everywhere!
-- George Krashos
Ah, that does explain a few things.
You just never know where he'll pop up, do you?
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Freakboy
Seeker
USA
63 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2005 : 23:49:21
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Wow what a book!!!! Elaine and Ed do a phenominal job on this masterpiece. The thing that amazes me the most is how they could tell such an involved tale and still manage to convey the rich tapestry of Realms flavor that is Waterdeep.
Without giving too much away, my favorite character was Roaringhorn. I really find something appealing about how he makes mistakes, pays a price for them, but ultimately learns from them. It is a very real human experience and made all the more enjoyable because he is exactly what I would expect of an ambitious young lordling with too much time on his hands. Second favorite character for me was Lark. Her "street smarts" were well revealed without being thrust down our throats, and then shown to be amateurish compared to the schemes of the Serpent. Very well done. It's great to show just how manipulative Elaith is by setting up someone as street wise and then having them played like a fiddle by the Serpent. I also loved the "gestapo" feel of the Halflings in Waterdeeps back alleyways. It's kind of like imagining the Saprano's only 3 feet tall.
Ed and Elaine, my finest compliments to you both if you are reading this thread. Thank you for a really spectacular book. Here's hoping we get to read another collaboration from the two of you again one day.
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Dart Ambermoon
Learned Scribe
Germany
253 Posts |
Posted - 10 Sep 2005 : 00:59:23
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Yep, a fantastic read this novel was. Flavour of the great city by the sea was there, nice tie-ins to more recent Realms events were there (e.g. in the prologue). Nifty appearances by some of the Favez from Waterdeep (Gods, we need a novel solely on Mirt someday) and still new characters were established in a way that the question "who would you like to feature in a Waterdeep Novel" becomes even harder than before. Old Xoblob Shop? Marvelous.
Great plot-twisting and Ed´s and Elaine´s unique styles shine very well together, in my personal opinion.
One question, though, is there game info on this "Church of Amalgamation"? (I´m still purely 2E, which may explain why I´ve no clue about it. Or I may be plain daft in that area...hmm?) |
~ In Finder I trust, for danger I lust ~ |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 10 Sep 2005 : 01:32:32
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Thanks, guys. Glad you enjoyed the story!
The Amalgamation church hasn't been detailed in game terms--this is new lore invented for CoS. It was purposely left somewhat mysterious. If you're interested in game lore, I'll look into the possible of writing something up for the WotC site. They usually do tie-in articles that advertise new releases, and it will be a while before the book is out in paperback, but something like that might work well in conjunction with another book. For example, Murray Leeder's upcoming SON OF THUNDER deals with barbarian tribes who revere token animals. Its release might be a good time for a multi-author article (or series of articles) on beast/monster cults. The Amalgamation Church would fit in well.
Just a thought. :) |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 10 Sep 2005 : 01:36:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Freakboy
Here's hoping we get to read another collaboration from the two of you again one day.
We've kicked around a couple of ideas. The problem is finding time--collaborations take enormous amounts of it, and Ed's schedule is full for quite some time to come. But I'm definitely not going to rule out the possibility! |
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Dart Ambermoon
Learned Scribe
Germany
253 Posts |
Posted - 10 Sep 2005 : 02:31:45
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Thanks for clearing that up, Elaine.
By the way, forgot to say that I loved Elaith´s role in the novel. A twist..and a twist...and another one...he´s such a great character to keep up the suspense. When he got the message intended for Texter I almost fell out of my chair, grinning at the irony. And paired up with the Gemcloaks? Terrific.
It makes you think, though, that he seeks those that resemble a certain Thann a little (outwardly), when he couldn´t curse enough about that one. He must miss him as much as the readers do *grins* |
~ In Finder I trust, for danger I lust ~ |
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Alaundo
Head Moderator
United Kingdom
5692 Posts |
Posted - 10 Sep 2005 : 10:49:47
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Well met
Well i'm thoroughly enjoying the novel  The writing style is far apart from many other novels and certainly has a unique feel about it. It feels like being there whilst reading, as the depth and flavor is so intense.
'WARE SPOILERS
I'm around the 400 page mark at the moment. I have chuckled at many points so far. Some of the dialog and character reactions are very humerous. Elaith is depicted perfectly, his ways and methods are just as I remembered him, and leaves me very content, having missed the old devil for quite some time
The scene in the City of the Dead was outstanding. Spine-tingling when trapped in the tomb. I particularly liked how the spirits were depicted. Brrrrrr
Outstanding! |
Alaundo
Candlekeep Forums Head Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
An Introduction to Candlekeep - by Ed Greenwood
The Candlekeep Compendium - Tomes of Realmslore penned by Scribes of Candlekeep
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 10 Sep 2005 : 15:37:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Alaundo
Elaith is depicted perfectly, his ways and methods are just as I remembered him, and leaves me very content, having missed the old devil for quite some time
Elaith's characterisation was one of the highlights of the book. He's changed so much since we first encountered him all those years ago -- and yet... his core personality remains the same .
Plus, he had one of my favorite lines in the book -
quote:
BELDAR: "I require your promise that you'll kill me if I become a threat to innocent folk."
ELAITH: "For a moment, I feared you might ask me to do something unpleasant."
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 10 Sep 2005 : 19:11:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Alaundo
Well met
Well i'm thoroughly enjoying the novel The writing style is far apart from many other novels and certainly has a unique feel about it. It feels like being there whilst reading, as the depth and flavor is so intense.
'WARE SPOILERS
I'm around the 400 page mark at the moment. I have chuckled at many points so far. Some of the dialog and character reactions are very humerous. Elaith is depicted perfectly, his ways and methods are just as I remembered him, and leaves me very content, having missed the old devil for quite some time
The scene in the City of the Dead was outstanding. Spine-tingling when trapped in the tomb. I particularly liked how the spirits were depicted. Brrrrrr
Outstanding!
That is one heck of a scene, on a lot of levels... |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 10 Sep 2005 : 19:12:13
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Alaundo
Elaith is depicted perfectly, his ways and methods are just as I remembered him, and leaves me very content, having missed the old devil for quite some time
Elaith's characterisation was one of the highlights of the book. He's changed so much since we first encountered him all those years ago -- and yet... his core personality remains the same .
Plus, he had one of my favorite lines in the book -
quote:
BELDAR: "I require your promise that you'll kill me if I become a threat to innocent folk."
ELAITH: "For a moment, I feared you might ask me to do something unpleasant."
That was a great line!
I really liked the way Elaith has grown since we first met him. He was outstanding in this novel. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6648 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2005 : 03:21:15
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Finished this the other day and really enjoyed it. It was great to see a cast of 'low-lights' keep centre-stage. The Church of the Amalgamation: spooky. Are they Malarites? The comment re getting back to Scornubel made me think of Ed's entry for Malar in "Prayers From the Faithful" ...
I did find that the sum was greater than its parts and only a few times could be sure that I was reading Ed or reading Elaine. A solid book which benefited from not having the "gotta tie up the loose ends"-Ed finishes that we've been provided with of late from his writings. Elaine must have slowed down the pace just enough to have it all fall into place! Mind you, the last chapters were still pretty frenetic.
The only thing that puzzled me was the non-appearance of the Watch/Guard when the Walking Statues were surrounding the location holding the revellers and Piergeiron et. al. Wouldn't they have rushed to the scene as they did with the riots in the City of the Dead? Even if they couldn't get in, they certainly would have tried to render assistance to those trapped inside.
Oh and whichever of you killed off (I'm getting the name wrong here) Phendalope is a nasty, nasty author! I fell in love with her and when she bit the dust I was crestfallen. Tell me that she got raised!
All in all, good stuff guys and certainly something that you should consider doing again.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 24 Sep 2005 : 01:22:33
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
The Church of the Amalgamation: spooky. Are they Malarites?
And then some.
quote:
The only thing that puzzled me was the non-appearance of the Watch/Guard when the Walking Statues were surrounding the location holding the revellers and Piergeiron et. al. Wouldn't they have rushed to the scene as they did with the riots in the City of the Dead? Even if they couldn't get in, they certainly would have tried to render assistance to those trapped inside.
Oh, I'm sure they did. The thing is, we just never saw that particular point of view. The POV characters were all in the festhall or in the tunnels, so even though the Watch and Guard were busy, they were busy off-stage.
quote:
Oh and whichever of you killed off (I'm getting the name wrong here) Phendalope is a nasty, nasty author!
I cannot tell a lie: it was Ed. ;) (But I'm STILL a nasty, nasty author...)
quote:
All in all, good stuff guys and certainly something that you should consider doing again.
Thanks, George. It was fun, and I'd love to try another project. The trick is finding a way to schedule it in--and a method that isn't quite so dang time-consuming. :)
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Edited by - ElaineCunningham on 24 Sep 2005 01:23:29 |
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Thysl
Seeker
USA
64 Posts |
Posted - 27 Sep 2005 : 05:45:16
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Olare,
This may be a bit belated but I do have to get it out:
Great job on this book!
Paced well, characters where consistant and realistic, not too much action/romance/horror/intrigue but a little of each!
Thanks for the work Mrs. Cunningham, Mr. Greenwood (possibly by proxy).
Thysl in Silver |
There are as many nights as days, and the one is just as long as the other in the year's course. Even a happy life cannot be without a measure of darkness, and the word 'happy' would lose its meaning if it were not balanced by sadness.
--Carl Jung |
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Alaundo
Head Moderator
United Kingdom
5692 Posts |
Posted - 27 Sep 2005 : 09:12:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Thysl
Olare,
This may be a bit belated but I do have to get it out:
Great job on this book!
Paced well, characters where consistant and realistic, not too much action/romance/horror/intrigue but a little of each!
Thanks for the work Mrs. Cunningham, Mr. Greenwood (possibly by proxy).
Thysl in Silver
Well met
Not at all, Thysl. Thy comments, and indeed comments from all who have read this tome, are always welcome and this thread will always be open for discussions
Tell me, which particular scenes and elements of the story grabbed ye? |
Alaundo
Candlekeep Forums Head Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
An Introduction to Candlekeep - by Ed Greenwood
The Candlekeep Compendium - Tomes of Realmslore penned by Scribes of Candlekeep
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Thysl
Seeker
USA
64 Posts |
Posted - 27 Sep 2005 : 18:34:48
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Mild spoilers: BEWARE!
Ok, I'm game. Greenwood writes snarky characters - I see Waterdhavian nobles as the snarkiest alive, so the Gemcloaks (as I see nobleborn) are perfect. The mock fight on Redcloak lane had me laughing so hard I spilt coffee on my pants.
I was glad to see that the main villians where fleshed out with personility and flavor. Mreldar was evil yes, but he was a plucky, hero worshipping, tough little scrapper, and - most humanizing - he craved the respect of his father.
I will agree with the above poster (can't remember who) that said it was a little rushed at the end, but (in my experience) when a novel using this large a dramatic personae and has this much intrigue it can't help but get rushed at the end: everyone's plans culminate at the same 30 page stretch.
Most of all I was surprised at the use of the Slipshield at the end, I figured one of the boys was gonna die, figured it would tie in with Beldar's prophecy but was unsure how, even until the moment it was resolved. |
There are as many nights as days, and the one is just as long as the other in the year's course. Even a happy life cannot be without a measure of darkness, and the word 'happy' would lose its meaning if it were not balanced by sadness.
--Carl Jung |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2005 : 21:27:52
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All right, I am on Chapter 3 now, and the writing is every bit as good as I've come to expect from both Cunningham *and* Greenwood. But first I have to mention something from Chapter 1 that infuriated me--I need to get it off my chest.
Are these "Gemcloak" fellows the guys I'm supposed to be rooting for thoughout the story?! In Chp 1, all they did was show me what a bunch of spoiled, thoughtless, and reckless bunch of overgrown man-children they are. They start a fight in a building where people are working (for no apparent reason), and even get some innocent workers hurt. One, namely Malark, has the audacity to get angry that these people would be upset and try to defend themselves. Guess what? As a reader, I'm on the side of the workers--you know, the people who actually have jobs and have to work for a living. I was also angry when the Watch let them off easily! The hell? You'd think that if these "nobles" spent a night in jail, they'd be less likely to cause trouble in the future, and the Watch would have less to worry and complain about. I would have been very impressed if the Watch Captain said, "Sorry, but you need a lesson more than this building needs repairs." So far these Gemcloaks aren't very endearing.
I'm on the side of Dyre, and I honestly hope he "wins". He's not the bad guy, he has every right to be angry at this idiotic group of not-so-nobles.
But overall I'm enjoying the book, and I find that Mrelder (sp?) fellow and his father to be an interesting pair. The line about "good money and evil monsters" made me crack up. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 04 Oct 2005 21:40:27 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2005 : 23:20:18
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| A good novel is one that has characters that grow. That's all I'll say for right now. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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City of Splendors: A Novel of Waterdeep
