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King Libertine
Seeker
USA
85 Posts |
 Posted - 27 Jun 2021 : 01:53:46
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What divine rank would you give the Archfey of the feywild? Any suggestions would be helpful as I am helping to create an adventure for our group.
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HighOne
Learned Scribe
214 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jun 2021 : 02:24:51
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In the canonical Forgotten Realms? Probably nothing above Intermediate, with most Archfey being Lesser deities or Demipowers.
It might help to put together a list of all the canonical FR material the Archfey have appeared in. That might help you to determine their power levels. |
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LordofBones
Master of Realmslore
1477 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jun 2021 : 16:05:15
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The Queen of Air and Darkness is an Intermediate power, Titania is a Greater power, Oberon and Hyrsam are Lesser powers.
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Eldacar
Senior Scribe
438 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jun 2021 : 15:16:38
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quote:
Originally posted by King Libertine
What divine rank would you give the Archfey of the feywild? Any suggestions would be helpful as I am helping to create an adventure for our group.
Speaking entirely personally, for a campaign I was running? I would rank them similarly to Demon Lords, Archdevils, or the Celestial Hebdomad.
"The bloods in this section aren't gods - yet. But they're close. The smell of divinity surrounds them like the stench of a reeking corpse. See, by climbing the heap, they made names for themselves, and are rewarded with praise and worship from those beneath them. 'Course, they have vastly different levels of strength. The toughest animal lord on the Beastlands is still no match for the weakest Abyssal lord. But fame does translate into raw power. The more folks who know a blood's name, the more likely it is that he'll pass into the realms of mythic belief."
So using Planescape, they would be Near-Powers, with some of the very strongest of them just barely reaching over the line into divinity. Not gods, but they can ape it. And just because they might lack true divinity doesn't make them any less threatening or dangerous. In some ways it might make them more worrying. |
"The Wild Mages I have met exhibit a startling disregard for common sense, and are often meddling with powers far beyond their own control." ~Volo
"Not unlike a certain travelogue author with whom I am unfortunately acquainted." ~Elminster |
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King Libertine
Seeker
USA
85 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jun 2021 : 15:33:15
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| I am fishing here... but I was thinking maybe a 20HD Fey with the Paragon Template would be a Divine Rank 0. |
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Eldacar
Senior Scribe
438 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jun 2021 : 15:58:21
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| I would suggest that for a 3rd edition NPC (I assume 3E because you've said Paragon template and DvR 0), 20HD will be too low. Glancing just at the 3rd edition dragons, for example, provides you with ~20 Hit Dice at or around the Adult stage. Meanwhile, Gwynharwyf (celestial paragon of the eladrin and one of Queen Morwel's consorts) is a 26 HD CR 26 unique outsider. You can find her statblock in Dungeon Magazine #149. I would expect an Archfey to at least be able to tangle with her, or more likely a Great Wyrm dragon. The Paragon template will help, certainly, but I'd still aim for thirty Hit Dice or so as a starting point. |
"The Wild Mages I have met exhibit a startling disregard for common sense, and are often meddling with powers far beyond their own control." ~Volo
"Not unlike a certain travelogue author with whom I am unfortunately acquainted." ~Elminster |
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King Libertine
Seeker
USA
85 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jun 2021 : 21:17:59
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| So a 30 HD Fey with say 50 class levels and the Paragon Template would be an Archfey? |
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King Libertine
Seeker
USA
85 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2021 : 01:04:47
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Okay, how many HD or class levels does a fey need to be a Divine Rank 1 entity? I'm curious and not adept at figuring this out.
Elminster is like CR 45 or something and he isn't a demigod. |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4685 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2021 : 03:17:04
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quote:
Originally posted by King Libertine
Okay, how many HD or class levels does a fey need to be a Divine Rank 1 entity? I'm curious and not adept at figuring this out.
Elminster is like CR 45 or something and he isn't a demigod.
The rules that I am aware of does not provide the requirements to gain a Divine rank. That is you can have 100 class levels and not be able to earn a divine rank.
The game at best only offered (a long time ago) a way to become divine like (The Immortal rules- BD&D) |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Eldacar
Senior Scribe
438 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2021 : 12:49:16
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quote:
Originally posted by King Libertine
Okay, how many HD or class levels does a fey need to be a Divine Rank 1 entity? I'm curious and not adept at figuring this out.
How many bananas does the Duke of Westminster have to count before dancing in a cornfield?
If that sounded like a nonsensical question, then it was intended to be. It isn't that you aren't adept, it's that you're presupposing interaction and logic where there isn't intended to be any. The system of Divine Rank in 3e has no connection to the system of Hit Dice or class levels.
It is certainly the case that there are ways to get Divine Rank, but these are either extremely limited (e.g. Dragon Ascendant for DvR 0), or downright abusive of the rules and done not to play a game but for theoretical CharOp purposes (e.g. Pun-Pun). There is no correlation between the number of HD/levels and divine ranks beyond this.
For example, you could create a 1 HD commoner with DvR 20. You could also just as easily have a 1000 HD neutronium golem without any divine rank at all. Look at some of the epic creatures and compare them to gods:
- LeShay (50 HD, CR 28); really old super-ultra-extra-elf.
- Elder Titan (70 HD, CR 30); a titan who also gets a seniors discount.
- Elminster (35 HD, CR 39); you're on Candlekeep, so you know who this is.
- Atropal (66 HD, CR 30, Divine Rank 0); stillborn god-foetus.
- Hekatonchieres (52 HD, CR 57, Divine Rank 0); hundred-handed champion of juggling.
- Torm (50 HD, Divine Rank 8); a lesser god.
- Chauntea (48 HD, Divine Rank 19); a greater god.
- Bane (65 HD, Divine Rank 17); a greater god.
Elminster is 9 CR points higher than an Elder Titan. He is half the HD. Torm is only 15 HD ahead of Elminster. A LeShay has the same HD as Torm, but no divine ranks. A Hekatonchieres has CR 57, but only 2 HD more than Torm and divine rank 0. An Elder Titan has 20 more HD than Torm, a rank 8 deity, but has no divine rank of its own. Chauntea has 2 less HD than Torm, but is a rank 19 deity! Meanwhile, Bane has 65 HD and 17 divine ranks, but the Atropal, a dead god-baby with divine rank 0, has more HD than he does. Elminster isn't in any way a god, but the Atropal has divine rank 0 and he doesn't.
What this amounts to is a very long and complicated way of saying they don't interact.
In 3E, the only way of gaining divine rank from pure levels that I can recall offhand is the Dragon Ascendant. To do that, you would first need to meet the requirements (very difficult to do unless you are for some reason a true dragon of around Ancient level or higher; it can be done, but requires a number of rule loopholes and qualifications that I frankly am not going to bother going into other than to say "it's not what you're looking for"). Then you would go through the class, and at the conclusion, you would have DvR 0. Which also does not help you, because there is no process for getting from DvR 0 to DvR 1.
At this point I will ask: what are you using this Archfey for?
Are they intended to be able to grant spells? Then they probably have divine rank of some sort. Are they major figures of worship in the world? Then they're probably a reasonably high divine rank. Are they minor figures in the grand scheme of things, but do have smallish yet devoted religions? Make them a divine rank 1-3 demigod.
Are they just supposed to be strong with some cool abilities, high skill modifiers, and other bits? Take a LeShay and then call it a day. If you want the LeShay to have divine rank, then just go to the rules for divine rank, take a number of ranks equivalent to what you need for your Archfey, apply them to the LeShay statblock, and use that. |
"The Wild Mages I have met exhibit a startling disregard for common sense, and are often meddling with powers far beyond their own control." ~Volo
"Not unlike a certain travelogue author with whom I am unfortunately acquainted." ~Elminster |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2021 : 13:06:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Eldacar
quote:
Originally posted by King Libertine
Okay, how many HD or class levels does a fey need to be a Divine Rank 1 entity? I'm curious and not adept at figuring this out.
How many bananas does the Duke of Westminster have to count before dancing in a cornfield?
42. The answer is always 42. 
quote:
Originally posted by Eldacar
- Atropal (66 HD, CR 30, Divine Rank 0); stillborn god-foetus.
I have always utterly hated this concept.
quote:
Originally posted by Eldacar
- Hekatonchieres (52 HD, CR 57, Divine Rank 0); hundred-handed champion of juggling.
I love that description!  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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LordofBones
Master of Realmslore
1477 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2021 : 13:17:46
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| If King Libertine is who almost everyone thinks he is, the archfey are Erevan Ilsere's personal cheerleader squad. |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3286 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2021 : 13:45:39
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quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones
If King Libertine is who almost everyone thinks he is, the archfey are Erevan Ilsere's personal cheerleader squad.
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"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11701 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2021 : 15:22:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Eldacar
quote:
Originally posted by King Libertine
Okay, how many HD or class levels does a fey need to be a Divine Rank 1 entity? I'm curious and not adept at figuring this out.
How many bananas does the Duke of Westminster have to count before dancing in a cornfield?
Are we talking real bananas, or does plantain count as well? I mean, some people consider the two the same. Also which Duke of Westminster? The current one, one from the past, or the one on some Doctor Who episode that I'm sure must have happened? Sorry, couldn't resist. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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King Libertine
Seeker
USA
85 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2021 : 15:41:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Eldacar
quote:
Originally posted by King Libertine
Okay, how many HD or class levels does a fey need to be a Divine Rank 1 entity? I'm curious and not adept at figuring this out.
How many bananas does the Duke of Westminster have to count before dancing in a cornfield?
If that sounded like a nonsensical question, then it was intended to be. It isn't that you aren't adept, it's that you're presupposing interaction and logic where there isn't intended to be any. The system of Divine Rank in 3e has no connection to the system of Hit Dice or class levels.
It is certainly the case that there are ways to get Divine Rank, but these are either extremely limited (e.g. Dragon Ascendant for DvR 0), or downright abusive of the rules and done not to play a game but for theoretical CharOp purposes (e.g. Pun-Pun). There is no correlation between the number of HD/levels and divine ranks beyond this.
For example, you could create a 1 HD commoner with DvR 20. You could also just as easily have a 1000 HD neutronium golem without any divine rank at all. Look at some of the epic creatures and compare them to gods:
- LeShay (50 HD, CR 28); really old super-ultra-extra-elf.
- Elder Titan (70 HD, CR 30); a titan who also gets a seniors discount.
- Elminster (35 HD, CR 39); you're on Candlekeep, so you know who this is.
- Atropal (66 HD, CR 30, Divine Rank 0); stillborn god-foetus.
- Hekatonchieres (52 HD, CR 57, Divine Rank 0); hundred-handed champion of juggling.
- Torm (50 HD, Divine Rank 8); a lesser god.
- Chauntea (48 HD, Divine Rank 19); a greater god.
- Bane (65 HD, Divine Rank 17); a greater god.
Elminster is 9 CR points higher than an Elder Titan. He is half the HD. Torm is only 15 HD ahead of Elminster. A LeShay has the same HD as Torm, but no divine ranks. A Hekatonchieres has CR 57, but only 2 HD more than Torm and divine rank 0. An Elder Titan has 20 more HD than Torm, a rank 8 deity, but has no divine rank of its own. Chauntea has 2 less HD than Torm, but is a rank 19 deity! Meanwhile, Bane has 65 HD and 17 divine ranks, but the Atropal, a dead god-baby with divine rank 0, has more HD than he does. Elminster isn't in any way a god, but the Atropal has divine rank 0 and he doesn't.
What this amounts to is a very long and complicated way of saying they don't interact.
In 3E, the only way of gaining divine rank from pure levels that I can recall offhand is the Dragon Ascendant. To do that, you would first need to meet the requirements (very difficult to do unless you are for some reason a true dragon of around Ancient level or higher; it can be done, but requires a number of rule loopholes and qualifications that I frankly am not going to bother going into other than to say "it's not what you're looking for"). Then you would go through the class, and at the conclusion, you would have DvR 0. Which also does not help you, because there is no process for getting from DvR 0 to DvR 1.
At this point I will ask: what are you using this Archfey for?
Are they intended to be able to grant spells? Then they probably have divine rank of some sort. Are they major figures of worship in the world? Then they're probably a reasonably high divine rank. Are they minor figures in the grand scheme of things, but do have smallish yet devoted religions? Make them a divine rank 1-3 demigod.
Are they just supposed to be strong with some cool abilities, high skill modifiers, and other bits? Take a LeShay and then call it a day. If you want the LeShay to have divine rank, then just go to the rules for divine rank, take a number of ranks equivalent to what you need for your Archfey, apply them to the LeShay statblock, and use that.
We are creating an Archfey from the 3ED book "Faeries" by Bryon Wischstadt, published by Bastion Press and part of the D20 system.
There is a Noble Fey race called Feeorin. (they look like 7 foot tall elves, but are true High Fey). The book states that Titianna and Oberon are both Feeorin. This particular Archfey is their youngest child. The Prince of Frost and Venestria(sp) would be his older siblings. We are plotting an adventure in the feywild, where this Feeorin child of Titianna and Oberon tries to convince the party to open a crossroad to Mosstone in order to make Mosstone a new Fey-haven in Faerun after hearing the calling of the LeShay queen, High Lady Ordalf of the city of Karador. (Canon).
So we are trying to figure out if this Feeorin child would have any divine rank being the child of two deities. The Epic Level Handbook states that a child of a deity and a mortal has a divine rank of 0. But this is a child of 2 Archfey. So we are trying to figure out a Divine rank, if he even gets a divine rank at all. We assume he would. We want to place him at about CR 30. Too powerful for the party to fight, but less powerful than a LeShay, or Elminster, or Queen Amlaruil.
The 2 known children of Titianna and Oberon are The Prince of Frost and Verenestra. We assume they are both either Demigods at the least, or Lesser deities at most. So where do we put a younger sibling in the divine rank scale? If he even gets one as a Feeorin.
The closest thing we can find in the Forgotten Realms to a Feeorin fey, is a Eladrin. But that is so far removed from a true fey that it would never fit. Feeorin are a separate race than elves in the book. Feeorin are noble fey, or High fey. So Eledrin would never work. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2021 : 15:50:30
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| If he's too powerful for the party to fight, why worry about the divine rank? Just build him at CR30ish and call it done -- unless the party is powerful enough to take on a CR30 dude, it's not going to matter if he's got a divine rank or not. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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King Libertine
Seeker
USA
85 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2021 : 15:55:24
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
quote:
Originally posted by Eldacar
quote:
Originally posted by King Libertine
Okay, how many HD or class levels does a fey need to be a Divine Rank 1 entity? I'm curious and not adept at figuring this out.
How many bananas does the Duke of Westminster have to count before dancing in a cornfield?
Are we talking real bananas, or does plantain count as well? I mean, some people consider the two the same. Also which Duke of Westminster? The current one, one from the past, or the one on some Doctor Who episode that I'm sure must have happened? Sorry, couldn't resist.
So the moderators just let random people hijack threads on these forums? Why post anything if you have nothing positive to say pertaining to my questions? |
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King Libertine
Seeker
USA
85 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2021 : 17:02:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
If he's too powerful for the party to fight, why worry about the divine rank? Just build him at CR30ish and call it done -- unless the party is powerful enough to take on a CR30 dude, it's not going to matter if he's got a divine rank or not.
Our party is between CR 15 and CR 20. So almost epic. Our most powerful Pc's are level 20. So a 30HD Feeorin would most likely be a CR 32 NPC. And if you add the High Fey template, you would add a +3 to the CR, making him a CR 35 NPC. Now being the child of Titianna and Oberon, like their other children, should he have Archfey status? Divine status? I understand that Archfey are on par with Arch devils and Demon princes and lords. But Titianna and Oberon are Greater and Lesser deities, whereas the archdevils and demon princes are not. So we're just trying to figure out if this particular Feeorin fey son would have divine rank, or just a very powerful faerie.
We understand it's up to us and our discretion. But we are looking for help on this. Have any of you read "Faeries" by Bastion Press? It's a D20 system book full of new fey races, prestige classes, Prestige races, spells, feats, skills, magic items and Templates. We want to bring this into The Forgotten Realms in Mosstone.
The Canon lore in forgotten realms pertaining to High Lady Ordalf of the city of Karador and the kingdom of Sarifal in the Moonshae Isles was a leShay. Her rule lasted over 11,000 years. She is not listed as a deity of the fey, yet we are almost certain she would defeat Elminster or Alustrial or Larloch in single combat. Let alone a level 5 sorcerer with a divine rank of 3. A Chosen of Mystra, or Chosen of The Seldarine (if there was a canon source) only gives a LA and CR of +4.
So given the stats of a common LeShay fey, you start at 50HD. Now add class levels for a being who has ruled for 11,000 years. At the least you'd have 20 class levels in 11,000 years. Most likely 30 to 40 class levels in that time, if not more. That alone is a NPC that could rip a Archdevil in pieces on the Prime Material Plane. Does that constitute a deity? No I guess, unless you have worshipers. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2021 : 17:06:33
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quote:
Originally posted by King Libertine
So the moderators just let random people hijack threads on these forums? Why post anything if you have nothing positive to say pertaining to my questions?
Posting a joke or two is hardly hijacking a thread. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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King Libertine
Seeker
USA
85 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2021 : 17:17:05
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| Almost reminds me of that crazy cat... whatshisname. He pulled down the moon and it's 7 orbitals in Faerun. Erevis Cale stopped him. Was he a Elder Githyanki? They have association with the Slaadi since 1ED. Or was he some other race never mentioned in any monster supplement? My heart is saying Githyanki, but I also feel I'm wrong. lol. |
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King Libertine
Seeker
USA
85 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2021 : 17:39:50
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quote:
Originally posted by King Libertine
Almost reminds me of that crazy cat... whatshisname. He pulled down the moon and it's 7 orbitals in Faerun. Erevis Cale stopped him. Was he a Elder Githyanki? They have association with the Slaadi since 1ED. Or was he some other race never mentioned in any monster supplement? My heart is saying Githyanki, but I also feel I'm wrong. lol.
See? I just hijacked my own thread by talking about something that doesn't relate to my questions my thread is based on.
Just saying. Back to the questions... So if High Lady Ordalf is possibly a CR 90 fey by game stats. (50 HD to start + whatever class levels a 11,000 year old LeShay would have). We estimate CR 90. No divine rank by canon standards. That being said, it would therefore be assumed by calculus, that Titianna would be Divine Rank 20 with roughly 200 class levels. Other major deities, such as Correlon or Loth or Garl Glittergold would have much, much more. We can imagine that a single deity can max out at level 20 for 5 core classes, giving 100 class levels at this point. They can choose to go into epic levels past 20th for whatever class, but we imagine they would want to learn as many disciplines as they can. Hence, our above statement. Then they would have many options to have 5 or more Prestige classes. This being dependent on a 5 level or 10 level Prestige class system.
None of us in our party can agree on anything correct to make a decision. Being that Garl Glittergold and Corellon Larethian are eternal deities with thousands of eons behind them, as is Titianna and Oberon, it would be prudent to assume that most major deities with a Divine Rank of 20 has roughly 300 class levels? Between core classes and Prestige classes we determine 300 to be average among greater deities.
If a common LeShay starts off with 50HD without class levels, then an eternal entity like Brandobaris or Barravar Cloakshadow, or Garl Glittergold, or Corellon Larethian would master almost every core class or Prestige class that would appeal to them, or fit in with their portfolio or domain. Again... leaning towards the idea of them having 200 to 300 class levels. If you are an eternal being throughout the cosmos, the Multiverse, then you won't sit on your Xbox mastering Dragon Age Inquisition, but you'll end up mastering everything you possibly can in the Multiverse around you.
The Major, Greater deities are known on all D&D worlds, all D&D planets and Planes. Yet the lesser ones sometimes only call a single plane their home. Or a single world.
So we all imagine and assume High Lady Ordalf to be a CR 90 fey. 50HD to start and about 40 class levels in her 11,000 year reign. Much less CR than a standard Greater deity. Yet she opened a portal from the Feywild to Faerun, allowing 50,000 fey to transport to Faerun. (Canon).
To me that sounds like Elven High Magic. But my party insists it's fey magic from Crossroads and Fey-Mounds. Standard roads if you're a faerie. So where should I place our Feeorin noble fey male with a CR of 30? Should he have no Divine rank? A Divine rank of 0, or a demigod at divine rank 1? |
Edited by - King Libertine on 01 Jul 2021 18:36:54 |
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LordofBones
Master of Realmslore
1477 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2021 : 18:09:02
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Why on earth would any of these dudes be CR 90, or 200 HD DVR 20 Titania. Zeus and Odin don't have DvR 20, and they're known for killing primordial creator spirits and god-bothering kaiju. What can't Ordalf do that can't be modeled by a 30th level wizard?
This is going to be like that prospective 90th level fey monstrosity that CEV posted in that one thread of his. It was a dumb idea then and it's a dumb idea now. Titania's avatar was an Illusionist 20/Druid 16 in 2e; extrapolating from that she's probably a sorcerer/druid/arcane heirophant.
Frankly, if your 200 HD monstrosity is a bunch of 20th level classes slapped together, any decent party is going to laugh itself to death. A wiz 20/cleric 20/druid 20/commoner 20 is still going to have a caster level of 20. |
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Eldacar
Senior Scribe
438 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2021 : 18:31:12
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quote:
Originally posted by King Libertine
Our party is between CR 15 and CR 20.
No they aren't. Player characters do not have challenge ratings. Challenge ratings are a mechanic for determining the difficulty of an encounter. It is also a broken mechanic that does not operate mathematically. Your posts are quite obvious in indicating you don't have the experience to know why and how this is the case, so attempting to calculate deities, Hit Dice, and class levels in the way you are is a fool's errand.
For you it comes down to needing the KISS principle (Keep It Simple Stupid). You want a fey creature that's about CR 30 which fits a theme. A LeShay is a CR 28 fey of an appropriate theme. Take the statblock of that, add a template to suit, and you have your CR 30-ish fey whatever. Done, finished. |
"The Wild Mages I have met exhibit a startling disregard for common sense, and are often meddling with powers far beyond their own control." ~Volo
"Not unlike a certain travelogue author with whom I am unfortunately acquainted." ~Elminster |
Edited by - Eldacar on 01 Jul 2021 18:34:16 |
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King Libertine
Seeker
USA
85 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2021 : 18:50:29
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quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones
Why on earth would any of these dudes be CR 90, or 200 HD DVR 20 Titania. Zeus and Odin don't have DvR 20, and they're known for killing primordial creator spirits and god-bothering kaiju. What can't Ordalf do that can't be modeled by a 30th level wizard?
This is going to be like that prospective 90th level fey monstrosity that CEV posted in that one thread of his. It was a dumb idea then and it's a dumb idea now. Titania's avatar was an Illusionist 20/Druid 16 in 2e; extrapolating from that she's probably a sorcerer/druid/arcane heirophant.
Frankly, if your 200 HD monstrosity is a bunch of 20th level classes slapped together, any decent party is going to laugh itself to death. A wiz 20/cleric 20/druid 20/commoner 20 is still going to have a caster level of 20.
Wow. What evil is inside you to treat me like this? I will look up CEV and see what it means, but I am giving what our party has been using with 3.5 rules, with 3ed epic rules. Which allows one to supersede the Caster Level in a singular core class, if you take the right feats and skills.
You seem to be a awful antagonist who has literally said nothing positive in my thread. Maybe the moderators will ask you to calm down a little bit. Your posts just seem hateful. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
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King Libertine
Seeker
USA
85 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2021 : 19:07:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Eldacar
quote:
Originally posted by King Libertine
Our party is between CR 15 and CR 20.
No they aren't. Player characters do not have challenge ratings. Challenge ratings are a mechanic for determining the difficulty of an encounter. It is also a broken mechanic that does not operate mathematically. Your posts are quite obvious in indicating you don't have the experience to know why and how this is the case, so attempting to calculate deities, Hit Dice, and class levels in the way you are is a fool's errand.
For you it comes down to needing the KISS principle (Keep It Simple Stupid). You want a fey creature that's about CR 30 which fits a theme. A LeShay is a CR 28 fey of an appropriate theme. Take the statblock of that, add a template to suit, and you have your CR 30-ish fey whatever. Done, finished.
Any PC party has a CR. It's standard, so not sure where you're coming from. If you have a PC party consisting of a 5th level rogue, a 10th level wizard, a 6th level cleric and a 2nd level fighter, we would call it by D&D standards a CR of 8 or 9. Math literally just helped me figure this out. So our group would be roughly a CR of 18. |
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King Libertine
Seeker
USA
85 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2021 : 19:24:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
*sigh* Must we do this every time? 
Yes. Everytime a particular member is rude or offensive to me. Lord of Bones seems to be a negative member of these boards. He is crude, rude, and never has anything positive to say about any of my posts. This is no crime, but it must be regulated and delt with. I am new to these boards and this forum, and if this is how Candlekeep members type and speak to others than I'd rather move on to other forums, where members are couth. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2021 : 20:53:53
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quote:
Originally posted by King Libertine
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
*sigh* Must we do this every time?
Yes. Everytime a particular member is rude or offensive to me. Lord of Bones seems to be a negative member of these boards. He is crude, rude, and never has anything positive to say about any of my posts. This is no crime, but it must be regulated and delt with. I am new to these boards and this forum, and if this is how Candlekeep members type and speak to others than I'd rather move on to other forums, where members are couth.
I just went through and looked at every one of your posts as King Libertine. And only in this thread do I see a direct response from Lord of Bones to you -- and though you may not like it, he is addressing what you are asking and offering constructive criticism.
So you're right -- "This is no crime". Nothing to regulate or deal with, here. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11701 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2021 : 22:36:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
*sigh* Must we do this every time?
Hey Wooly.... I am sending Rititisk the Clever, a powerful Archfey kercpa, mounted on his epic mount, the dire jackalope Harifur. They are delivering to your residence by worldtree-mail a package. The package contains a virtual hug from Eldath. She sent it to me, but I didn't need it. I think you do.  |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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King Libertine
Seeker
USA
85 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jul 2021 : 00:31:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by King Libertine
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
*sigh* Must we do this every time?
Yes. Everytime a particular member is rude or offensive to me. Lord of Bones seems to be a negative member of these boards. He is crude, rude, and never has anything positive to say about any of my posts. This is no crime, but it must be regulated and delt with. I am new to these boards and this forum, and if this is how Candlekeep members type and speak to others than I'd rather move on to other forums, where members are couth.
I just went through and looked at every one of your posts as King Libertine. And only in this thread do I see a direct response from Lord of Bones to you -- and though you may not like it, he is addressing what you are asking and offering constructive criticism.
So you're right -- "This is no crime". Nothing to regulate or deal with, here.
Ouch. okay. lol
Back on subject... |
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King Libertine
Seeker
USA
85 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jul 2021 : 03:11:47
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quote:
Originally posted by King Libertine
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by King Libertine
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
*sigh* Must we do this every time?
Yes. Everytime a particular member is rude or offensive to me. Lord of Bones seems to be a negative member of these boards. He is crude, rude, and never has anything positive to say about any of my posts. This is no crime, but it must be regulated and delt with. I am new to these boards and this forum, and if this is how Candlekeep members type and speak to others than I'd rather move on to other forums, where members are couth.
I just went through and looked at every one of your posts as King Libertine. And only in this thread do I see a direct response from Lord of Bones to you -- and though you may not like it, he is addressing what you are asking and offering constructive criticism.
So you're right -- "This is no crime". Nothing to regulate or deal with, here.
Ouch. okay. lol
Back on subject...
Weird. You all are weird. Even the Moderators are subversive and picky.
I see your game now. Game on.
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Divine rank for Arch Fey
