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Naron
Acolyte
20 Posts |
 Posted - 11 Dec 2016 : 12:49:34
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After reading a Lovecraftian story, in which the pitiful humans are always helpless against the Old Ones and filled with fear and madness, I have asked myself the question of the title.
Are there things that could terrify even the gods and fill them with an intense fear, anxiety and even madness?
I'm really curious.
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1621 Posts |
Posted - 11 Dec 2016 : 14:05:03
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| AO, being forgotten, thinking too deeply about things that are they antithesis, Elder Evils, Primordials, Powerful Rival Deities. |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3802 Posts |
Posted - 11 Dec 2016 : 14:21:10
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I don't think that primordials, elder evils, or rival deities could terrify a god. They could represent a threat, but a threat isn't automatically something terrifying when it can be fought (and that's the case for all of those things). The thing that makes the Old Ones/Cthulhu so terrifying is that not only they are entirely alien, but there's very little you can do against them.
The only thing that really comes to my mind when you ask talk about terrified deities, is when Ao banished them. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
Edited by - Irennan on 11 Dec 2016 17:52:22 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 11 Dec 2016 : 15:24:07
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I think 'being forgotten' is #1.
Nothing frightens a god more than knowing its entire existence depends upon the faith of lowly, fickle mortals. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6353 Posts |
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Wrigley
Senior Scribe
Czech Republic
605 Posts |
Posted - 11 Dec 2016 : 21:10:08
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kezef the hound works fine. For mulan gods imaskari might have been pretty scary.
And do not forget about other gods. Lathander's Procession of Justice might have sent chills up the spine on both sides of spectrum... |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7970 Posts |
Posted - 11 Dec 2016 : 21:52:40
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Mask seems fairly terrified of Kezef, lol, he's been running and hiding from the Chaos Hound for over a century. Always just a few steps ahead, never able to truly rest and relax his guard. Perhaps it's not exactly what mortals understand as "fear" or "terror" motivating Mask: by then why does he keep on running, why doesn't he finally confront Kezef on his own terms? I'm a little disappointed, I think a god of cunning, scheming, intrigues, and deception should be able to plan out a real doozy of a killer ambush.
As of the Avatar Crisis (the Time of Troubles between 1E and 2E), Faerunian deities have become symbiotically dependent on their faiths. Godlike entities might be nigh indestructible things - but the bodies and minds and hearts of puny mortal worshippers are fragile things, the books and temples and shrines they construct are also fragile things. I think any Faerunian deity would be "afraid" of losing these living keys to power in the Realms. |
[/Ayrik] |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11696 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2016 : 14:59:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
It depends on the deity... Sune is terrified of tentacles.  
I think you misspelled it... I think it was hentacles :-) |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2016 : 15:45:20
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
It depends on the deity... Sune is terrified of tentacles.
I think you misspelled it... I think it was hentacles :-)
Good catch. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1621 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2016 : 21:27:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
It depends on the deity... Sune is terrified of tentacles.
Hey Sune is the Goddess of Love period, not just for humaniods, Hentacles need love too! |
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1621 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2016 : 21:29:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Mask seems fairly terrified of Kezef, lol, he's been running and hiding from the Chaos Hound for over a century. Always just a few steps ahead, never able to truly rest and relax his guard. Perhaps it's not exactly what mortals understand as "fear" or "terror" motivating Mask: by then why does he keep on running, why doesn't he finally confront Kezef on his own terms? I'm a little disappointed, I think a god of cunning, scheming, intrigues, and deception should be able to plan out a real doozy of a killer ambush.
As of the Avatar Crisis (the Time of Troubles between 1E and 2E), Faerunian deities have become symbiotically dependent on their faiths. Godlike entities might be nigh indestructible things - but the bodies and minds and hearts of puny mortal worshippers are fragile things, the books and temples and shrines they construct are also fragile things. I think any Faerunian deity would be "afraid" of losing these living keys to power in the Realms.
That was the old goofy Mask, the new Riven awesome Mask would find a way to beat the Chaos Hound or imprision him. |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3802 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2016 : 22:36:03
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| I think Riven would find a way to befriend Kezef, given that dogs are essentially the only living thing that he can reliably empathize with. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
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Wrigley
Senior Scribe
Czech Republic
605 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2016 : 22:42:41
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| Like that new Mask is definitely not wearing red trousers over his blue suit anymore (and so is better than the old one in every way)? |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3802 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2016 : 22:45:33
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| If you ask me, I actually liked the old Mask. I also think that the new Mask can't be just Riven, rather an entity that hold the sentience of the old Mask as well (similar to how all the former Mystras coexist in the latest one). |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11696 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2016 : 23:10:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
I think Riven would find a way to befriend Kezef, given that dogs are essentially the only living thing that he can reliably empathize with.
Oh hells yes, I like that imagery. Maybe he thumbs his nose at and laughs at Tyr while scratching Kezef's ears. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Madpig
Learned Scribe
Finland
148 Posts |
Posted - 13 Dec 2016 : 07:49:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
If you ask me, I actually liked the old Mask. I also think that the new Mask can't be just Riven, rather an entity that hold the sentience of the old Mask as well (similar to how all the former Mystras coexist in the latest one).
For me it depends on who wrote about Mask. Kemp's Mask was propably THE BEST writeup of any god on any fantasybook. Mask, as potrayed in Avatar series no. 4 and 5 was plain BAD. |
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Thauramarth
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
729 Posts |
Posted - 13 Dec 2016 : 09:38:56
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| Richard Awlinson . Whenever that name appears, gods know bad things will happen to them... |
Edited by - Thauramarth on 13 Dec 2016 09:39:36 |
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Bladewind
Master of Realmslore
Netherlands
1280 Posts |
Posted - 13 Dec 2016 : 16:17:14
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Several states all sentient beings fear, but gods take take their paranoia for them to a much grander timescale. Isolation, Starvation, Oblivion/Death or Failure (lacking Omniscience over their own domains and portfolios) WON'T be on their super-subconsciousnesses constantly, but could really upset their moods if confronted with the thought/possibility.
'Once mortal' deities AND those that care for their mortal creations could take with them the societal fears of ridicule, rejection and failure. A deity would for example fear blasphemic gossip, heresy by their favorite worshipers and/or the spread of a slanderous myth that shows one of their follies or failed creations. The in-society between the gods of Faerun is largely the same as a social network, with all the chances of getting shamed, rebuffed of bested by your fellows.
The rivalries between and within the Faerunian pantheons would lead to deities fearing failure against their foes. A Grand Crusade that peters out in a miserable trek through a mountain pass, the loss of high level clerical convoys to a mysterious disease, the destruction of their own major cathedrals by a rival deity's warhost would all greatly hurt the reputation and resources of a greater deity, especially if its against a lesser rival god that boasts about the deed.
Also I agree that epic-level artifacts usually can give even a greater god pause. Myrkul might fear the Crown of Horns power to isolate and imprison him, now that he has refound the ambition to rebuild his divine powerbase. |
My campaign sketches
Druidic Groves
Creature Feature: Giant Spiders |
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Naron
Acolyte
20 Posts |
Posted - 14 Dec 2016 : 23:09:43
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| Lovecraft said that the strongest fear is the fear of unknown. Is this also valid for gods? |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7970 Posts |
Posted - 15 Dec 2016 : 02:25:12
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Much remains unknown to D&D gods/goddesses, deities, pantheons, primordials, and powers. None of them are truly omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent. In fact, most of them have limits defined by their lesser positions in divine hierarchies - some are merely ascended mortals, quasi-deity "exarchs" and demi-godlings, or apotheotic entelechs whose "omniscience" barely exceeds that of common peasants.
If fear of the unknown is strongest then even the greatest of gods know fear. |
[/Ayrik] |
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moonbeast
Senior Scribe
USA
522 Posts |
Posted - 15 Dec 2016 : 07:29:31
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| Losing their worshippers to another deity…. is pretty frightening. |
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Thrasymachus
Learned Scribe
195 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2016 : 21:08:02
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If the OP specifically means what terrifies Forgotten Realms Gods…
… an announcement the Wizards is working on a new version on Dungeons & Dragons.
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Former Forgotten Realms brand manager Jim Butler: "Everything that bears the Forgotten Realms logo is considered canon". |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2016 : 21:21:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Naron
Lovecraft said that the strongest fear is the fear of unknown. Is this also valid for gods?
Not sure about FR, or even Great Wheel/Planescape, but in the Mystara setting (OD&D), there is a level 'beyond godhood' that the gods know almost nothing about and can barely comprehend (like how far the gods - immortals in that setting - are above mere mortals). Most are frightened by the prospect (that anything could possibly consider them inconsequential), but at least one of them worked toward 'apotheosis' toward that tier, and one day, simply disappeared. The other immortals would like to believe it destroyed itself... but you never know.
However, the Immortals of that setting are more akin to demi-powers in the Realms and elsewhere, so that tier 'beyond the gods' could simple be normal D&D gohood, which may be missing from Mystara (all the immortals are ascended mortals). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3802 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2016 : 21:46:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Thrasymachus
If the OP specifically means what terrifies Forgotten Realms Gods…
… an announcement the Wizards is working on a new version on Dungeons & Dragons.
5e was pretty positive for a lot of them, actually. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
Edited by - Irennan on 18 Dec 2016 21:46:52 |
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Mirtek
Senior Scribe
595 Posts |
Posted - 19 Dec 2016 : 13:37:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
quote:
Originally posted by Thrasymachus
If the OP specifically means what terrifies Forgotten Realms Gods…
… an announcement the Wizards is working on a new version on Dungeons & Dragons.
5e was pretty positive for a lot of them, actually.
Even more terrifying, it looks to good, it has to be a trap  |
Edited by - Mirtek on 19 Dec 2016 13:38:12 |
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Bladewind
Master of Realmslore
Netherlands
1280 Posts |
Posted - 19 Dec 2016 : 15:09:05
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I think we can create a list of beings that have terrified some gods or pantheons.
Thus far mentioned:
AO (feared by all divines)
Lathander (feared for his Divine Procession and Dawn Cataclysm)
Kezef the Hound (feared by Mask)
I think the following can be added (excluding diametricly opposed dieties such as Selune and Shars obvious fears for eachothers plans):
Ityak-Ortheel (feared by the Seldarine)
Pandorym (feared by the Imaskari but meant to deter the Mulhorandi pantheon)
Lady of Pain (feared by the Torillian pantheons after she murdered Aoskar with a mere thought)
Dendar (feared by the World Serpents of the Scaled Ones' pantheon)
Fate (feared by the Zakharan pantheon)
the Celestial One, Emperor of Heaven (feared by all the officials in the Celestial Bureaucracy during New Years Day when they have his audience)
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My campaign sketches
Druidic Groves
Creature Feature: Giant Spiders |
Edited by - Bladewind on 19 Dec 2016 15:11:47 |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3802 Posts |
Posted - 19 Dec 2016 : 16:00:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Mirtek
Even more terrifying, it looks to good, it has to be a trap
Lol  |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
Edited by - Irennan on 19 Dec 2016 16:00:28 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 19 Dec 2016 : 17:51:51
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I honestly wouldn't think too many deities would be fearful of Lathander, as such... Wary of what he may try, certainly, but not fearful. Being fearful implies that they find him frightening, even when he's clearly not doing anything and just minding his own business. Being wary, though, would be kinda keeping an eye out and not thinking too much about it unless Lathy looks like he's up to something.
Even Cyric, who literally tried to write the other deities out of existence, would be someone more watched than actively feared...
I don't think someone that could be reasonably opposed -- as one deity could reasonably oppose another -- would be something to actively fear. It's only when you get to those you can't reasonably oppose, like Dendar, that there is a reason for fear.
At least, that's my take on it. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 19 Dec 2016 : 19:24:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Bladewind
Kezef the Chaos Hound
I remember back when he was just "Kezef, the Bad Puppy".
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"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7970 Posts |
Posted - 20 Dec 2016 : 01:15:51
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The overgod Ao was unknown to the Realms in 1E but became a manifest part of Realmslore when he punitively inflicted the Time of Troubles and Avatar Crisis upon all the Faerunian deities (and upon all of Faerun). In the Avatar novel trilogy, Ao communicates with his (overgod) peers and his final communication is a report (that "the Realms have been secured") to another and entirely ambiguous entity (or entities) - perhaps equals, perhaps underlings, but perhaps instead a superior or group of superiors.
Remember that ye olde (circa 1986) D&D Set 5: Immortal Rules are technically "official" D&D canon. Rules which describe ascension through the ranks of immortals and gods, towards entities more powerful than the mightiest deities ever described in any Core (or Realms, Greyhawk, Krynn, etc) setting product. Ao has been described in FR novels, a few overgodly counterparts for other settings have been described (or suggested) throughout various other publications. But no real rules exist for Ao - he obviously outpowers the collective might of all his subordinate gods and goddesses, he appears to have some buddies, he might even have a boss - but he is otherwise incomprehensible to mortals, such entities are simply beyond normal rules. Ao's last report suggests that he might somehow be punished or humiliated (by his peers and/or his "boss") if the Realms were not "secured" - which suggests even an overgod could know fear. The possibilities in fiction are endless, so Ao has been used (sparingly) in FR novels, but such stuff is not the concern of mere mortal gamers playing by merely mortal gaming rules. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 20 Dec 2016 01:28:06 |
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What could terrify a god?
