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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3802 Posts |
 Posted - 07 Feb 2015 : 19:49:09
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Well, what a let down, I don't know what to think anymore  |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
Edited by - Irennan on 07 Feb 2015 19:49:49 |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2015 : 20:15:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Baptor
This is far more telling than it looks.
If Salvatore was working on the 5E Realms then he would be under NDA not to talk about it until WotC announced the book or gave him a release to talk about it.
I do see your larger point, and I agree it appears WotC drummed up anticipation for the Realms, then didn't follow through after the Sundering books were completed.
I don't agree that Salvatore's statements indicate he's in a position to be a lead designer for the new Realms. He worked on the Sundering, certainly, but that's the extent of the work we know he's done. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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Arcanus
Senior Scribe
485 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2015 : 20:56:00
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| Maybe someone should ask him just what his involvement is these days...... |
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Baptor
Seeker
USA
93 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2015 : 21:26:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Arcanus
Maybe someone should ask him just what his involvement is these days......
Agreed. I've already bothered him once. I try to keep my pestering of such people to once a month at a minimum. Someone else can tweet him, he got back to me within 24 hours.
From his response though, I'm assuming they are no longer working with him like they were in 2013. Not on a FRCS at least.
If I had to guess, I would say that the WotC designers got with Bob and Ed back in 2012 to ask them how to fix the Realms, and they told them. I think at that time WotC was eager to revitalize the Realms and produce a new book "full of lore" (as Mike Mearls put it). I think as time went on, Hasbro saw the cost and put a stop to it, believing there would not be a good return on that investment. But that's just a theory. |
Jesus said, "I am the Ressurection and the Life. Anyone who believes in Me will live even if he dies, and those who live and believe in Me will never die. Do you believe this?" |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2015 : 21:39:08
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Grins, we actually agree on something for once. :) But us old timers can go back and say, "I got into the Realms because of the gold box games."
Laughs. These darn youngin's and their Balder's Gate games, they're still missing out on the older games that came before.
quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer
I do too, but I have learned over time not to discount other Realms-related media, because we've seen time and again people coming to these halls who introduce themselves by saying, "I was first introduced to the Realms through the Baldur's Gate games."
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For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2390 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2015 : 22:17:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Tanthalas
I'm not sure what's hurting the Realms more, the lack of content being released or the constant bile being thrown around by "fans".
I'm not sure what's hurting the Realms more, the lack of content being released or the sort of content that was actually released.
No, wait. I am pretty sure.  |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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Baptor
Seeker
USA
93 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2015 : 22:56:39
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quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
quote:
Originally posted by Tanthalas
I'm not sure what's hurting the Realms more, the lack of content being released or the constant bile being thrown around by "fans".
I'm not sure what's hurting the Realms more, the lack of content being released or the sort of content that was actually released.
No, wait. I am pretty sure.
You make a good point, honestly. If we were sitting on 3e Realms waiting for a 5e update, I could wait very easily because 3e was just fine. In fact I know that's true because our group used the 2e box set after 3e came out before the 3e FRCS was released.
But that's not the case. We are sitting on 4e and a ruined FR. I had come to terms pre-2012 that this post-apocolypic Realms was the future Realms. Then they announced the Sundering and "it will be great we are fixing everything just wait!" So I'm waiting. And waiting. I don't want to run the Realms I've got, not only because I don't like it but also because everything is about to change in it. |
Jesus said, "I am the Ressurection and the Life. Anyone who believes in Me will live even if he dies, and those who live and believe in Me will never die. Do you believe this?" |
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Swordsage
Learned Scribe
149 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2015 : 00:10:14
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Call me cynical - many do - but's my take is that Salvatore's "fix" for the Realms extended only as far as agitating for a situation (i.e. the Sundering) where he could re-establish his cast of novel characters. "The Companions" is an entertaining novel - I enjoyed it more than the recent Neverwinter stuff that I laboured through. But it was so palpably self-serving that it did nothing to generate any excitement in me for the 5E Realms. If he was being truly honest, he might put an "*" after his "save the Realms" spiel and state sotto voce, "Of course, I'm talking about the Realms in a fiction sense. You roleplaying gamers are on your own."
The Swordsage |
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Baptor
Seeker
USA
93 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2015 : 00:22:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Swordsage
Call me cynical - many do - but's my take is that Salvatore's "fix" for the Realms extended only as far as agitating for a situation (i.e. the Sundering) where he could re-establish his cast of novel characters. "The Companions" is an entertaining novel - I enjoyed it more than the recent Neverwinter stuff that I laboured through. But it was so palpably self-serving that it did nothing to generate any excitement in me for the 5E Realms. If he was being truly honest, he might put an "*" after his "save the Realms" spiel and state sotto voce, "Of course, I'm talking about the Realms in a fiction sense. You roleplaying gamers are on your own."
The Swordsage
Crap. You know, now I think about it. You are probably right. I've never known Bob to care about the game itself except where it affected his novels. Ed's got his home game which recognizes nothing past the get box. That means his concerns would be Nobel related as well.
Crap.
Putting that all together, I'd say the chance of us seeing a realms guide are almost zero. |
Jesus said, "I am the Ressurection and the Life. Anyone who believes in Me will live even if he dies, and those who live and believe in Me will never die. Do you believe this?" |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2015 : 00:27:09
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| Ed's been writing a ton of material for the post-Spellplague Realms, he wrote the last Realms sourcebook and by all accounts is knee deep in the 5E Realms. It doesn't follow in the least that he has no interest in the gaming side of things. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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Baptor
Seeker
USA
93 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2015 : 00:34:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer
Ed's been writing a ton of material for the post-Spellplague Realms, he wrote the last Realms sourcebook and by all accounts is knee deep in the 5E Realms. It doesn't follow in the least that he has no interest in the gaming side of things.
OK. Anyone know how to get in touch with him? |
Jesus said, "I am the Ressurection and the Life. Anyone who believes in Me will live even if he dies, and those who live and believe in Me will never die. Do you believe this?" |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2015 : 00:55:51
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Points over at the Chamber of Sages board on these forums and the Ask Ed Greenwood thread inside of that forum. :)
quote:
Originally posted by Baptor
OK. Anyone know how to get in touch with him?
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For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Tanthalas
Senior Scribe
Portugal
508 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2015 : 01:10:17
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quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
quote:
Originally posted by Tanthalas
I'm not sure what's hurting the Realms more, the lack of content being released or the constant bile being thrown around by "fans".
I'm not sure what's hurting the Realms more, the lack of content being released or the sort of content that was actually released.
No, wait. I am pretty sure.
Yes, because the incessant whining has no negative effect at all. |
Sir Markham pointed out, drinking another brandy. "A chap who can point at you and say 'die' has the distinct advantage". |
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hobbitfan
Learned Scribe
USA
164 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2015 : 06:07:07
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I haven't read or seen anything said/done by fans that even approaches the level of harm done to the D&D game, community and FR setting as that of 4E.
I also don't see the "constant bile" or "incessant whining" that Tanthalas is talking about above but I'm not a daily poster so maybe I missed soemthing?
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Baptor
Seeker
USA
93 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2015 : 07:09:42
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quote:
Originally posted by hobbitfan
I haven't read or seen anything said/done by fans that even approaches the level of harm done to the D&D game, community and FR setting as that of 4E.
I also don't see the "constant bile" or "incessant whining" that Tanthalas is talking about above but I'm not a daily poster so maybe I missed soemthing?
Just so I'm not misunderstood. I don't think 4e "ruined" FR or even D&D, but derailed both. (In fact, James Wyatt literally described it as such.)
4e was an incredible game that was not D&D. Spellplague Realms was an incredible Campaign Setting that was not the Realms. If either or both had been marketed as anything but what they had been, it might have all worked out well.
But WotC betrayed the notion of "additive design." Instead of adding more options they deleted all the old options and replaced them with the new ones, which was only good if you loved the new ones.
Their entire strategy and marketing betrayed this mindset. They summoned the FR authors to a meeting where they told them what would happen. They made videos basically telling old gamers to suck it up and switch to the new order of things.
Not nice!
But not the end either. Most of us kept on playing other iterations of the game and the Realms. I actually went on with the Spellplague but we did not use 4e rules.
Now they are going to "fix it." Well IMHO they did a great job fixing the D&D rules. Now all they need to do is fix my Realms and I will be happy.
I had lots of stories and characters in the old Realms too. But I've come to realize after awhile we were all starting to worship them just a bit too much. Moving 100 years and getting a fresh start was nice (the blowing up the Realms not so much though).
There is this guy who said in his Realms none of the uber iconics really exist, but are fairy tales told to children. Maybe there really was a Drizzt Do Urden at one time, but if so he's dead now. I like that idea. YMMV. Power to my players. |
Jesus said, "I am the Ressurection and the Life. Anyone who believes in Me will live even if he dies, and those who live and believe in Me will never die. Do you believe this?" |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2390 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2015 : 14:38:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Swordsage
Call me cynical - many do - but's my take is that Salvatore's "fix" for the Realms extended only as far as agitating for a situation (i.e. the Sundering) where he could re-establish his cast of novel characters.
I'm going to express doubts, as a habitual advocatus diaboli and vocal un-fan of Salvatore's 
While you have a good point and sequel capacity is an advantage...
In itself isn't even an unquestionable boon, especially when the writer in question knows much better than most how he may end up with "an albatross", having to churn out sequels not just until the premise is sucked dry, but ad nauseam and beyond.
quote:
Originally posted by Tanthalas
Yes, because the incessant whining has no negative effect at all.
I blame the evil mirror for making me look fat.
Whining does have effect, indeed. IIRC, somewhere around here was a mini-review concluding that FR v.4 was built via catering to the reasons some folk hate Realms rather than the reasons some folk love Realms.
Of course, this won't have any effect at all, if not the strange choice of those who did the catering.
I, for the sake of argument, assume here that said "whining" genuinely exists rather is what's commonly known as "astroturfing" in the first place. Even though things like strangely widespread attempts to blame Ed for "Spellfire" again and again and everywhere occasionally make me wonder. |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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Old Man Harpell
Senior Scribe
USA
495 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2015 : 16:37:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer
Ed's been writing a ton of material for the post-Spellplague Realms, he wrote the last Realms sourcebook and by all accounts is knee deep in the 5E Realms. It doesn't follow in the least that he has no interest in the gaming side of things.
Sune's Boobs...I'm agreeing with Jeremy again...
Anyone who remembers (and I am sure Jeremy will back me up here), few were as negative on the 4th Edition Realms ("Shattered Realms" was the term I borrowed and used constantly) as I was. It took truly Herculean patience and more than likely several fits of exasperation on the part of Diffan and a couple of others to point out where things could be not only salvaged, but viable (that and the Neverwinter materials). When James Wyatt admitted that Realms 4th had 'gone off the rails', I didn't feel the expected 'I told you so' vindication, but even though that did distantly occur to me in the intellectual sense, my first thought on reading the scroll in question (I believe it was Aldrick who started it?) was 'they're actually going to do something about it!'
I won't try to speculate on RAS's role from this point forward (I avoid most forms of social media), but Wooly's correspondence with Ed indicates that there is something in the pipe. Ed would not, put plainly, ever lie to us. If there is not, in fact, game-related material planned, such as a FRCG, it's because he's been lied to first, and they simply haven't had the courage to tell him. And I just don't see them pulling that kind of brazenly stupid stunt - it would alienate far too many people, Ed among them, and they have to be aware of that.
For all of them pushing their 'you can run this adventure anywhere' schtick, it's obvious (not least in the Tiamat adventure duology) that the Realms is where it defaults to. Giving a solid foundation for more of these adventures is not only in their best interests financially, it means they can also use it to make references in the adventures that follow ("to reference X on Y, refer to the FRCG, page 201"). So for a more complete idea of how to use X in the campaign, why, that FRCG is the exact ticket, the central clearinghouse for All Things post-Sundering. Will that be cash or Mastercard?
I will wait. I think there's good reason to be optimistic. I've been wrong before, but I don't think this is one of those times. I think they're aware of just how upset a lot of us were the last time around, and one thing they're desperate to avoid is alienating not only hidebound antediluvians like I am, but many of those who came later who similarly couldn't see the point of Realms 4th, and wouldn't take kindly to another poke in the eye.
It won't be for naught. Give it time. 
- OMH |
Edited by - Old Man Harpell on 08 Feb 2015 17:04:50 |
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Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe
Ireland
705 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2015 : 16:44:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Old Man Harpell
quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer
Ed's been writing a ton of material for the post-Spellplague Realms, he wrote the last Realms sourcebook and by all accounts is knee deep in the 5E Realms. It doesn't follow in the least that he has no interest in the gaming side of things.
Sune's Boobs...I'm agreeing with Jeremy again...
Anyone who remembers (and I am sure Jeremy will back me up here), few were as negative on the 4th Edition Realms ("Shattered Realms" was the term I borrowed and used constantly) as I was. It took truly Herculean patience and more than likely several fits of exasperation on the part of Diffan and a couple of others to point out where things could be not only salvaged, but viable (that and the Neverwinter materials). When James Wyatt admitted that Realms 4th had 'gone off the rails', I didn't feel the expected 'I told you so' vindication, but even though that did distantly occur to me in the intellectual sense, my first thought on reading the scroll in question (I believe it was Aldrick who started it?) was 'they're actually going to do something about it!'
I won't try to speculate on RAS's role from this point forward (I avoid most forms of social media), but Wooly's correspondence with Ed indicates that there is something in the pipe. Ed would not, put plainly, ever lie to us. If there is not, in fact, game-related material planned, such as a FRCG, it's because he's been lied to first, and they simply haven't had the courage to tell him. And I just don't see them pulling that kind of brazenly stupid stunt - it would alienate far too many people, Ed among them, and they have to be aware of that.
For all of them pushing their 'you can run this adventure anywhere' schtick, it's obvious (not least in the Tiamat adventure duology) that the Realms is where it defaults to. Giving a solid foundation for more of these adventures is not only in their best interests financially, it means they can also use it to make references in the adventures that follow ("to reference X on Y, refer to the FRCG, page 201"). So for a more complete idea of how to use X in the campaign, why, that FRCG is the exact ticket, the central clearinghouse for All Things post-Sundering. Will that be cash or Mastercard?
I will wait. I think there's good reason to be optimistic. I've been wrong before, but I don't think this is one of those times. I think they're aware of just how upset a lot of us were the last time around, and one thing they're desperate to avoid is alienating not only hidebound antediluvians like I am, but many of those who came later who similarly couldn't see the point of Realms 4th, and wouldn't take kindly to another poke in the eye.
It won't be for naught. Give it time.
Just want to pipe in and say that "something's being worked on" could be anything at this point. What Ed is working on could be related to the MMO or the comics, or even a new series of novels.
Brian James said something about they won't produce a book unless they think it's profitable and I think he is spot on. I really think Hasbro is going for the money this time around and I think the RPG itself is going to get the least attention as well as the least investment. |
“Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!”
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien
*I endorse everything Dark Wizard says*. |
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hobbitfan
Learned Scribe
USA
164 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2015 : 16:50:59
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There are things that just don't make any sense.
Why do the Sundering and follow that up with nothing?
How are they using the Realms as backdrop for the new Adventure paths without any information on what Realms they are playing in?
What are new players and DMs supposed to do?
What are old-school guys coming back supposed to do?
What about people who stuck by the Realms the whole time, staying current? |
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Old Man Harpell
Senior Scribe
USA
495 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2015 : 17:04:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Shadowsoul
Just want to pipe in and say that "something's being worked on" could be anything at this point. What Ed is working on could be related to the MMO or the comics, or even a new series of novels.
Brian James said something about they won't produce a book unless they think it's profitable and I think he is spot on. I really think Hasbro is going for the money this time around and I think the RPG itself is going to get the least attention as well as the least investment.
Your point is well-taken, but there is such a thing as positive publicity paying for itself. D&D 5th topped the Amazon charts, and it follows that they'd believe they could squeeze a similar result from a FRCG. Granted, it isn't the system's 'universal' quality, but depending on the balance of lore and crunch (we are talking Ed Greenwood here), it too could be a runaway success. Ed's RPG creativity Realms-wise (not to mention authority) is going to be a driving force, I say.
Ed knows what we're looking for, he knows what we've wanted since after the Spellplague ripped the Realms to bleeding, unrecognizable shreds. Even if he is riding point on a comic adaptation, I'm of the belief that he's primarily going to be spending his time adapting what followed in the novels for those of us who travel the Realms primarily via the game (as I do).
You may yet be proven right - I admit I don't trust Hasbro any further than I can throw them (and lately, that's a lot less). But I think there's real financial viability in following through with the game material. And look at it this way - if the IP rots for too long, Ed gets it back. And a Kickstarter campaign would take off like nobody's business - I avoid Kickstarter, but even I would scrounge up a couple hundred bucks for that. I'm putting my brat through university, so it isn't like I have the cash just lying around...but I'd find the money, and I'm supremely confident that I'd be just one of a whole bunch who would.
- OMH |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3802 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2015 : 17:18:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Old Man Harpell
And look at it this way - if the IP rots for too long, Ed gets it back.
- OMH
They could shut down every FR development and just have him writing 1 novel/year to avoid that happening (to my understading, at least).
Anyway, as one of -as you said- '' those who came later who similarly couldn't see the point of Realms 4th, and wouldn't take kindly to another poke in the eye'', seeing all this positivity is kind of reassuring despite the cold silence on WotC's side. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
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Old Man Harpell
Senior Scribe
USA
495 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2015 : 17:40:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
quote:
Originally posted by Old Man Harpell
And look at it this way - if the IP rots for too long, Ed gets it back.
- OMH
They could shut down every FR development and just have him writing 1 novel/year to avoid that happening (to my understading, at least).
Anyway, as one of -as you said- '' those who came later who similarly couldn't see the point of Realms 4th, and wouldn't take kindly to another poke in the eye'', seeing all this positivity is kind of reassuring despite the cold silence on WotC's side.
I am, by nature, a pessimist. My wife's annoyingly cheerful nature is what keeps me from sliding off the deep end most days. But this time, I think there's reason to be independently optimistic with the situation. 4th Edition D&D (while in and of itself not a bad system, just not, well, D&D) didn't do so well, they still put out the 4th Edition FRCG - which, as we know, bombed, and was only partially salvaged by the release of the Neverwinter book.
This time, the released system is going gangbusters, and is winning praise left and right. The novels are doing well, the Neverwinter game is doing well...they have all this success in 5th Edition material under their belts. It makes no sense, in my mind, to stop riding the wave. Depending on how they play their cards, that wave might not have even crested yet. We have to hope they see the potential.
I'm prepared to accept the rotten banana of being mistaken, but I think I'll be spared that this time around. 
- OMH |
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Aldrick
Senior Scribe
909 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2015 : 17:44:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Old Man Harpell
And a Kickstarter campaign would take off like nobody's business - I avoid Kickstarter, but even I would scrounge up a couple hundred bucks for that. I'm putting my brat through university, so it isn't like I have the cash just lying around...but I'd find the money, and I'm supremely confident that I'd be just one of a whole bunch who would.
This is what frustrates me so much. If WotC was really strapped for cash, the Realms has enough of a dedicated fan base out there that are willing to pay through the nose to keep it up and running. Putting up a Kickstarter Campaign, and getting Ed Greenwood to stand behind it--they are guaranteed to get WAY more funding than they need.
Setting it up so people can toss in a few dollars here and there, then at the next level effectively pre-order their copy of the FRCG, at the next level promising a Kickstarter Collector's Edition version with additional artwork and lore, at the next level a Collector's Edition version signed by Ed Greenwood, at the next level a Collector's Edition version signed by Ed Greenwood and a special thanks mention by name as a contributor that helped make the book possible, and at the next level a Collector's Edition version signed by Ed Greenwood plus the special thanks mention and the ability to work with Ed personally to design an organization or town that will be added to the Campaign Guide, etc.
Things like this would get people donating lots of money. They'd have all the cash they'd need to do the FRCG the way it needs to be done--the way it should be done. They could effectively spark a renaissance for the Realms that could surpass the lore information pushed out during 2E if they used Kickstarter.
The financial excuse is not a good one, because the money is out there--there are plenty of hardcore dedicated fans of the setting that are willing to pay a lot of money to keep the setting alive and thriving. |
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Baptor
Seeker
USA
93 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2015 : 18:00:28
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quote:
Originally posted by hobbitfan
There are things that just don't make any sense.
Why do the Sundering and follow that up with nothing?
How are they using the Realms as backdrop for the new Adventure paths without any information on what Realms they are playing in?
What are new players and DMs supposed to do?
What are old-school guys coming back supposed to do?
What about people who stuck by the Realms the whole time, staying current?
The answer to all these questions is Hasbro. I stand by the fact I believe that WotC wants to make a FRCS, but if they don't, it will be because the parent company Hasbro (who cares now a wit for D&D except for the money it makes) shut it down.
I firmly believe that 2 years ago WotC was dead serious about resurrecting the Realms in Ed's likeness and trying to reboot the franchise. Of course I think Ed was sincere as well. It's Hasbro I don't trust.
However, I am waxing optimistic. I went back and re-read a lot of the tweets and responses from WotC and got a different impression. The announcement that there would be no 5e Realms actually came from a fan who was at GenCon 2014. Mike Mearls got on the board he was flaming and straight out said that was not the whole truth. He said they meant in the immediate future (a la 2014). Mearls said they would not start work on anything that big until after the DMG had rolled out and they all took a break (which they did in December/January).
That means its a possibility they are now working on a FRCS. It still might not get here by GenCon though, because Mearls also said they don't want to repeat their past mistake (4e *cough*) and so want to take their time making sure they do it right.
As far as Bob Salvatore goes, I think what he meant by being responsible for the Sundering and new Realms was that on that day when James Wyatt asked him what they should do, Bob laid out the plan he and Ed came up with for the Sundering. I think after that meeting, though, Bob stepped away from the development. That's why he has "no idea" what's going on now. He's knee deep in his kickstarter.
My estimation is that we will have our FRCS at GenCon 2016.
Edit: Oh, and I would so get behind a kickstarter if it came to that. |
Jesus said, "I am the Ressurection and the Life. Anyone who believes in Me will live even if he dies, and those who live and believe in Me will never die. Do you believe this?" |
Edited by - Baptor on 08 Feb 2015 18:04:43 |
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Old Man Harpell
Senior Scribe
USA
495 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2015 : 18:02:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Aldrick
quote:
Originally posted by Old Man Harpell
And a Kickstarter campaign would take off like nobody's business - I avoid Kickstarter, but even I would scrounge up a couple hundred bucks for that. I'm putting my brat through university, so it isn't like I have the cash just lying around...but I'd find the money, and I'm supremely confident that I'd be just one of a whole bunch who would.
This is what frustrates me so much. If WotC was really strapped for cash, the Realms has enough of a dedicated fan base out there that are willing to pay through the nose to keep it up and running. Putting up a Kickstarter Campaign, and getting Ed Greenwood to stand behind it--they are guaranteed to get WAY more funding than they need.
Setting it up so people can toss in a few dollars here and there, then at the next level effectively pre-order their copy of the FRCG, at the next level promising a Kickstarter Collector's Edition version with additional artwork and lore, at the next level a Collector's Edition version signed by Ed Greenwood, at the next level a Collector's Edition version signed by Ed Greenwood and a special thanks mention by name as a contributor that helped make the book possible, and at the next level a Collector's Edition version signed by Ed Greenwood plus the special thanks mention and the ability to work with Ed personally to design an organization or town that will be added to the Campaign Guide, etc.
Things like this would get people donating lots of money. They'd have all the cash they'd need to do the FRCG the way it needs to be done--the way it should be done. They could effectively spark a renaissance for the Realms that could surpass the lore information pushed out during 2E if they used Kickstarter.
The financial excuse is not a good one, because the money is out there--there are plenty of hardcore dedicated fans of the setting that are willing to pay a lot of money to keep the setting alive and thriving.
This is it, precisely.
When Marc Miller did the latest edition of Traveller, he used Kickstarter - and got over TWO THOUSAND percent of his goal in funding. I didn't contribute to that...I just wasn't convinced how viable it'd be. I may yet pick up a copy of the book, sure, but as the game isn't on my list of 'to play' games, I'm not all that worried at the moment.
If Miller can get that kind of response for a game that's essentially gone through the same amount of flux as D&D has (and with similar low points), a FRCG 5th has so much potential using the same tack. It really does. I'd bet the pledges from just the people here in the 'Keep would be a substantial chunk of the requisite funds for the project. Hasbro would be risking almost nothing by doing it, too - if the pledges don't pan out, their loss is negligible. If they take off, they could bury Marc Miller's record - and I bet it would, too.
- OMH |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2015 : 18:31:05
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Hasbro does not decide what products do or do not get produced.
Hasbro sets revenue goals and leaves it to WotC to meet those goals. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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Baptor
Seeker
USA
93 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2015 : 18:58:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer
Hasbro does not decide what products do or do not get produced.
Hasbro sets revenue goals and leaves it to WotC to meet those goals.
Technically right, but not practically so. Hasbro has power of the purse. On earth, there is no greater power. Sure WotC can say, "We are making a FRCS!" But if Hasbro doesn't give them the necessary budget, it ain't getting made.
Either way, it's irrelevant. I think the people actually working on D&D want to do right by us. I could be wrong. I think the money counters (whoever they technically are) would be the ones to shoot it down, not the D&D team.
Again, that is all beside the point. It's not like if one doesn't get made we are going to storm their offices with pitchforks and torches here.
I think one will get made, but I think we will be waiting a year or two for it. Whether its any good will depend on a lot of factors. I have an idea in my head that matches what Bob described as "Eds Realms" that would be excellent. I also have a kind of nightmare scenario where it would be so bad I'd rather stay in 4e. |
Jesus said, "I am the Ressurection and the Life. Anyone who believes in Me will live even if he dies, and those who live and believe in Me will never die. Do you believe this?" |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2015 : 19:17:30
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Everything I have seen from WotC and from former employees who talk about the company indicates that Hasbro does not provide money for projects.
WotC may be owned by Hasbro, but it is still it's own company. Hasbro does not, to my knowledge, pre-approve budgets on individual book projects, because Hasbro is concerned with running Hasbro, not Wizards of the Coast.
Hasbro is concerned with revenue. It's up to WotC to produce the required revenue.
(I apologize if this comes off as overly authoritative or bossy. Not trying to convey that mood, just trying to relay bland information.) |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
Edited by - Jeremy Grenemyer on 08 Feb 2015 19:48:36 |
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BEAST
Master of Realmslore
USA
1714 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2015 : 22:47:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Baptor
Watch this video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLf1hBUr9M4
You can fast forward to the 11:30 mark where Bob talks about the Spellplague and how he and Ed personally cooked up the Sundering to fix it. He then talks about, how after the 4e Realms bombed, James Wyatt came to Bob asking for his help fixing the Realms. Bob said that he personally directed Wyatt and the team through his Sundering plan. Bob basically said, "If you don't like the new Realms, you can blame me. I am taking full responsibility for the new Realms, and I'm quite proud of it."
I'd say that's a lot more than just Icewind Dale. :)
Personally, I am all for a Realms fix that was designed by Bob Salvatore and Ed Greenwood. The question now is, will we ever see it?
At 14:12 in that video interview, Bob says specifically that he had a hand in the Realms 5E, but not so much the game. It was the chain of events that restored some hope for some of the characters and turned around the setting that he was referring to.
At the same time, Bob has repeatedly deferred to Ed as having the final say over the Realms, and has referred to the Realms as being Ed's sandbox. I think Bob was proud to have a part in segueing past 4E to something else, but at that point in the process, there wasn't much sign that he was actively involved in the something else. He was only talking about the transitional process thereto, IMO. This was so as not to steal any of Ed's thunder once the destination of that transition process was revealed.
But whatever the hold-up that is keeping us all from seeing the something else cooked up by Ed is mysterious and frustrating to us all.
As Jeremy alluded to, NDAs just make it worse.
quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer
I do see your larger point, and I agree it appears WotC drummed up anticipation for the Realms, then didn't follow through after the Sundering books were completed.
I don't agree that Salvatore's statements indicate he's in a position to be a lead designer for the new Realms. He worked on the Sundering, certainly, but that's the extent of the work we know he's done.
I think Jeremy has the right of it.
Bob was proud to have helped pave the way (i.e., the Sundering concept) for Ed to write us some 5E awesomeness. But we're all still waiting on the awesomeness. That irks. |
"'You don't know my history,' he said dryly."
--Drizzt Do'Urden (The Pirate King, Part 1: Chapter 2)
<"Comprehensive Chronology of R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms Works"> |
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Old Man Harpell
Senior Scribe
USA
495 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2015 : 23:07:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer
Everything I have seen from WotC and from former employees who talk about the company indicates that Hasbro does not provide money for projects.
WotC may be owned by Hasbro, but it is still it's own company. Hasbro does not, to my knowledge, pre-approve budgets on individual book projects, because Hasbro is concerned with running Hasbro, not Wizards of the Coast.
Hasbro is concerned with revenue. It's up to WotC to produce the required revenue.
(I apologize if this comes off as overly authoritative or bossy. Not trying to convey that mood, just trying to relay bland information.)
You're right about the process, Jeremy, but WotC has to look at the overall revenue requirements laid down by Hasbro, and decide if their efforts will be able to meet that goal. Hasbro is answerable only to the stockholders, and they care about returns, nothing else. So in a way, Hasbro does make the decision by virtue of the roadmap it puts before WotC's admin.
This all goes back to the Kickstarter question. Negligible risk, with a potential payoff and payout (to the stockholders) of impressive proportions, depending on how it's marketed and advertised to the public. Plus it would be a solid foundation for future products (I alluded to this earlier). All they have to do is decide it's worth spending the time to get the ball rolling. (And no, you didn't come across as bossy, BTW.)
- OMH |
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I honestly think it's crazy having to wait so long
