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Xal Valzar
Learned Scribe
Argentina
214 Posts |
 Posted - 08 Oct 2014 : 23:04:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Fellfire
Rare fighter/wizards?! Gish are less than a deutschmark a dozen. I am also confused by this "scientific aproach'' to magic. The two are polar opposites. With magic, anything IS possible anywhere at anytime.
well in no reality- even the most deluded and invented one - something has things it can do and things it can not do at one time. if it could it would be neither itself and also not itself and thus be nothing.
secondly if someone from the FR comes to this world and sees us use computers he would be convinved its "magic". nothing can not have a nature, that which does not have a nature by defention does not exist.
every fantasy realm has things it makes possible with magic and makes imposible, the sceintific apporach means that someone looks at the nature of magic and judges it with all he knows of magic to find its nature.
having a fatnasy world where magic can be anything it wants takes the fun out of reading the book since you have no idea what can happen, what once was the villian can become a dancing cooked chicken.
every system of magic has its limitations.
also where there is a nature one has to reach it. those who reach it are scientists, men who study nature.
Gish are in a lot of places but its not just a guy who shoots lighting bolts and then goes to fight with a sword.
im talking about a fighter that does judo-like throws and uses shocking grasp to make sure his oppment doesnt react to it. a guy who uses one hand free with no shield but cast shield and other wards. a fighter with a touch spell, say vampric touch, that summons his weapon when targets get far and vanishes it when they close. a fighter dashes under a huge monsters legs and cast a lighting bolt up the creatures buttocks to its head. a teleport spell to dodge a head on charge to 30 feet above the charger and a disent with a spear. now nobody fights like that really. |
Knowledge is Power |
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Bladewind
Master of Realmslore
Netherlands
1280 Posts |
Posted - 09 Oct 2014 : 00:56:52
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Ever heard of bladesingers? They fight alot like that, and are a well established institution in most moon and sun elven communities. They are rare, but well known among both elves and their enemies.
I think if I'd allow a halforc-halfelf in my campaign I'd probably make he or she sterile, like the Mul, the dwarf human hybrids from Athas.
Fairly dangerous to walk in the more hardcore xenophobic elven house districts, as the eldreth veluuthra probably hates a halfelf-orc with a passion. A truly devout gruumsh shaman will be hard pressed to see virtues in an elven hybrid as well. Staying away from those groups could lead to finding great friends amongst both races (and others too!).
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My campaign sketches
Druidic Groves
Creature Feature: Giant Spiders |
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 09 Oct 2014 : 01:30:17
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| A strong enough Transmuter could turn a villain into a chicken. Then the cooking part is easy (Burning Hands). A little Necromancy and, boom. There you go, cooked dancing chicken. |
Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
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Edited by - Fellfire on 09 Oct 2014 01:35:45 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11716 Posts |
Posted - 09 Oct 2014 : 01:37:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Bladewind
Ever heard of bladesingers? They fight alot like that, and are a well established institution in most moon and sun elven communities. They are rare, but well known among both elves and their enemies.
I think if I'd allow a halforc-halfelf in my campaign I'd probably make he or she sterile, like the Mul, the dwarf human hybrids from Athas.
Fairly dangerous to walk in the more hardcore xenophobic elven house districts, as the eldreth veluuthra probably hates a halfelf-orc with a passion. A truly devout gruumsh shaman will be hard pressed to see virtues in an elven hybrid as well. Staying away from those groups could lead to finding great friends amongst both races (and others too!).
That's a good path to take it, making them sterile adds a further quandary to this particular storyline where he wants to make the character a descendant of the Moonflowers. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 09 Oct 2014 : 02:27:00
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| Sorry. I'm not trying to shoot you down. A poor choice of words, perhaps. But scientific theory does break down in the face of the mysterious workings of the Art. Though it does follow certain rules, the warp and weft of the Weave (if it still exists in that incarnation) are sometimes utterly unpredictable except to those at the highest level of their craft, or even Mystra herself. |
Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
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Edited by - Fellfire on 09 Oct 2014 02:29:49 |
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Xal Valzar
Learned Scribe
Argentina
214 Posts |
Posted - 09 Oct 2014 : 05:20:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Fellfire
Sorry. I'm not trying to shoot you down. A poor choice of words, perhaps. But scientific theory does break down in the face of the mysterious workings of the Art. Though it does follow certain rules, the warp and weft of the Weave (if it still exists in that incarnation) are sometimes utterly unpredictable except to those at the highest level of their craft, or even Mystra herself.
well the same can be said about science, i mean all scientist are in for a suprise when they discover something. think what a shock it was that life is made of little cells.
secondly what is now mid level or even low level was once high level, the fact that the weave changes does not mean it does not have a nature and can not be studied.
also the Weave is not an entity - a thing in itself - it is an attribute of something. that thing is unkown but probably is the ehter.
the point is that as the context changes so does the science but what is true is still true and can be studied. |
Knowledge is Power |
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Xal Valzar
Learned Scribe
Argentina
214 Posts |
Posted - 09 Oct 2014 : 05:52:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Fellfire
A strong enough Transmuter could turn a villain into a chicken. Then the cooking part is easy (Burning Hands). A little Necromancy and, boom. There you go, cooked dancing chicken.
yes and no, i mean u did take a course of action known before and acted on it to ahcieve a result. and if u see it agian you will look for a connection with its nature.
also the point is that in a story world it is not nice to the reader. |
Knowledge is Power |
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Xal Valzar
Learned Scribe
Argentina
214 Posts |
Posted - 09 Oct 2014 : 06:00:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Bladewind
Ever heard of bladesingers? They fight alot like that, and are a well established institution in most moon and sun elven communities. They are rare, but well known among both elves and their enemies.
I think if I'd allow a halforc-halfelf in my campaign I'd probably make he or she sterile, like the Mul, the dwarf human hybrids from Athas.
Fairly dangerous to walk in the more hardcore xenophobic elven house districts, as the eldreth veluuthra probably hates a halfelf-orc with a passion. A truly devout gruumsh shaman will be hard pressed to see virtues in an elven hybrid as well. Staying away from those groups could lead to finding great friends amongst both races (and others too!).
YAY friends! but he wants to be a Merchants because at the end of the day gold is gold and a merchant will look at your wares not your race.
no way hell be a bladesinger, he doesnt like dancing and fighting though. hes attacks are clever and involve use of intelgance above all. tricking his oppemnets and using thier strength agianst them (judo-style). |
Knowledge is Power |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7974 Posts |
Posted - 09 Oct 2014 : 23:03:28
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No way in hell be a bladesinger since the option would never exist. Even human-blooded half-elves are denied, the elves are very fussy about ensuring that true bladesinging is kept only to elvenkind. If any exceptions or renegades do exist, they face the relentless and active predations of true elven bladesingers who zealously champion elven exclusivity.
Besides, it literally takes many decades or a few centuries to learn the secrets of proficient bladesinging. Halfbreeds just wouldnt live long enough, certainly not be in their physical prime long enough, unless they can somehow magically extend their natural lifespan. Elves know this and consequently would likely view the entire effort of training such an individual a spectacular waste of time. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7974 Posts |
Posted - 09 Oct 2014 : 23:16:22
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And lol while at the end of the day I would be looking at a merchants wares and not his race, I cannot pretend that I would entirely ingore the fact that he is, say, a drow or orc or cambion or mindflayer.
It would make me question the origins of his wares - stolen from the bodies of adventurers, perhaps? Will these items be recognized by those who seek vengeance upon thieves and murderers? Is that drow medallion just a pretty little glass pendant or does it bear hidden enchantments and curses which can be deployed against me?
Not saying that an elforc merchant cant be successful. But it might be naive to handwave racial expectations and prejudices aside just because one is genuinely trying to make an honest, fair living. At the end of the day, all-too-many customers will indeed be thinking in terms of the merchant first, gold wont be foremost on their list of worries.
Expect difficulties from those who dislike elves, and from those who dislike orcs, and - especially! - from elves who hate orcs (or orcs who hate elves) who combine their antipathies with the perceived insult of having their own race polluted by the enemy. |
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Xal Valzar
Learned Scribe
Argentina
214 Posts |
Posted - 10 Oct 2014 : 02:17:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
It would make me question the origins of his wares - stolen from the bodies of adventurers, perhaps? Will these items be recognized by those who seek vengeance upon thieves and murderers? Is that drow medallion just a pretty little glass pendant or does it bear hidden enchantments and curses which can be deployed against me?
Not saying that an elforc merchant cant be successful. But it might be naive to handwave racial expectations and prejudices aside just because one is genuinely trying to make an honest, fair living. At the end of the day, all-too-many customers will indeed be thinking in terms of the merchant first, gold wont be foremost on their list of worries.
thats the point, if you innovate a new magical item - by your sheer and sole effort - and explain in detail how it works and its process its kind of hard to think you got it from someone else.
the good thing about a merchant is that his charcter can be tested after a while. a good sword is a good sword, and one can check if a sword is stolen or cursed or etc...
"look at my wares not at i, besides i am not for sale as it is."
this is the honor to be found in gold and steel, the power of the mind who brought them use.
i already have an idea for a mercury - blade. basicly like a dwarven Urgush but diffrent in the sense that its of elven desgin and curve, it has a handle and a triangular portion that extends to an Axe, a short curved blade extending the line of the axe to form a wavy schmitar, and a long blade. the inside of the long blade is filled with mercury and there is a ball in the triangle, when the position changes gravity makes the ball trigger less heat from an electric device to the mercury. so it can be used as: an axe, a long sword, a schmitar.(i have a link with the drawing if u want). |
Knowledge is Power |
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Xal Valzar
Learned Scribe
Argentina
214 Posts |
Posted - 10 Oct 2014 : 04:42:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Expect difficulties from those who dislike elves, and from those who dislike orcs, and - especially! - from elves who hate orcs (or orcs who hate elves) who combine their antipathies with the perceived insult of having their own race polluted by the enemy.
basicly everyone who has pointy ears hate him... yay |
Knowledge is Power |
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Aldrick
Senior Scribe
909 Posts |
Posted - 10 Oct 2014 : 05:18:56
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I more or less agree with Ayrik. I think people are consistently under estimating just how racist people are in Faerun. I would encourage you to read the 3E source book Races of Faerun, Xal.
Here is what it says about the outlook of Half-Orcs:
quote:
Most half-orcs are surly individuals who endured horrible childhoods. They are too coarse and savage to fit in well with humans, and too fragile and thoughtful to fit in with orcs. As a result, the majority of half-orcs grow up alone and without any influence from orc or human society. Thus, half-orcs speak their mind and act upon their feelings without any fear of repercussions. They are nomads, loners, and hermits at best, and murderers and savages at worst.
Without a place to call a home, and often without a family or close friends to count on for companionship, half-orcs learn from an early age to look out for themselves. This is often interpreted as greed or selfishness by other races, but too many halforcs have learned the hard way that they are not welcome in any land, and must provide for themselves.
Here is what it says about the outlook of Half-Elves:
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While elves and half-elves are respected and admired in many parts of Faerun, humans in lands where elves are not commonly encountered can be resentful of elven blood. Elves are graceful, attractive, long-lived, mysterious, and skilled with mighty magic, and humans who do not know them well can easily come to regard elves—and, by extension, half-elves—with envy and fear. In places such as Silverymoon or the Dalelands, a half-elf’s race is nothing remarkable, and she faces little or no bigotry. In lands where there is a long history of elven human conflict, such as Tethyr or Sembia, her elven blood marks her as different and dangerous, with all the fears and suspicions one might expect.
Many half-elves respond to the suspicions and slights of their human neighbors by staying well away from human civilization, preferring a solitary life in the wildernesses of Faerun. Others instead take up a life of travel, never staying in one spot long enough for racial prejudices to distance them from the folk around them.
As the homeland of a mixed society of elves, humans, and half-elves, Aglarond is unique among the lands of Faerun. In Aglarond, a half-elf’s race is unremarkable, and a half-elf is judged by her own actions and accomplishments, not her kindred. Aglarondan half-elves are a quiet, thoughtful, and courteous folk, slow to befriend outsiders, but unfailingly loyal to the friends they’ve made. Many half-elves from other lands journey to Aglarond at least once in their lives, and more than a few remain there, enriching the Simbul’s realm.
A half-orc elf (Orelf?) would be an abomination. He would face all the discrimination of a half-orc, and be turned away from places where half-elves frequently go to escape their own brand of bigotry. To the Elves, he would be a twisted abomination, a horrible and perverted thing that sullies Elvenkind simply by its existence. To Orcs he would be no different than a half-orc, perhaps treated worse if they are smart enough to notice the difference between a half-orc and a half-orc elf. Among humans he would be treated as no different than other half-orcs, though in places where both Elves and Orcs are despised he would face a particularly difficult existence.
I can think of no Elven community, no matter how open minded, that would accept him. A small handful of individual Elves may see past his race, and see him for what he truly is... but overwhelmingly, the majority would not.
Even in a place like Silverymoon, perhaps one of the most accepting and open minded places in Faerun, he would be thrust to the fringes of society as an outcast. He would struggle particularly hard there due to their constant problems with orcs, which would easily stoke anti-orc bias among the population. That would easily be heaped onto him, and it would not help matters that the Elves of Silverymoon would consider him an outright abomination.
He would find the most safety and happiness in places where half-orcs are accepted. Races of Faerun particularly mentions Palischuk in Vaasa and Phsant in Thesk, as both have a large and strong half-orc population. Outside of these places, I would say a place like Amn would be his next best bet, as there his race would be less important than his personal wealth.
However, no matter where he goes--even among other half-orcs--he will always be marked as different due to his elven heritage. It is hard for me to envision this character as anything other than an outcast even among other outcasts. |
Edited by - Aldrick on 10 Oct 2014 05:21:05 |
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Xal Valzar
Learned Scribe
Argentina
214 Posts |
Posted - 10 Oct 2014 : 06:00:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Aldrick
However, no matter where he goes--even among other half-orcs--he will always be marked as different due to his elven heritage. It is hard for me to envision this character as anything other than an outcast even among other outcasts.
i like that, being an outcast makes it interesting to interact with people. also he is physically a magnificent spiceman, being both incredibly graceful and strong and powerful.
also altough he is very outgoing and often asks people many questions assuming they were his friends for a long time. in other respects he is a know-it-all giving lectures to even old wizards on subjects in the arcane, most of the time is is correct and wiser wizards reconginze him as an equal mind. other people are often just confused with him and are left with there mouth wide open and speechless.
either by the paralysis of rage, the awe of a raw intelgance, the magnifcence of one of the most trancendent bodies to walk Fauron, or the bewilderment of a know it all with little social grace. also the uncanny combination of his hieritage is odd to them extremly.
after the first meeting people either stick to thier biases or judge him by what he is, albiet most stick to thier racist tendencies (think Drizzt).
i can see a lot of conflict in a lot of places for his race.
the best place is Amn because he has dreams of bieng a merchant and also Gold is in itself justice. |
Knowledge is Power |
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LordofBones
Master of Realmslore
1487 Posts |
Posted - 10 Oct 2014 : 16:05:21
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So, your namesake is physically magnificent and a mental paragon. With all due honesty, I'm going to ask you to please take a good, long look at your character. As written, he's either a textbook Mary Sue, or rolled all 18's with the paragon template slapped on.
I have no idea what you're trying to say in the rest of your posts. Wizard-fighter character class? Gish or go home, basically, since you'll be massively gimping yourself otherwise. Or play a duskblade. |
Edited by - LordofBones on 10 Oct 2014 16:05:50 |
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Aldrick
Senior Scribe
909 Posts |
Posted - 10 Oct 2014 : 17:18:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Xal Valzar
i like that, being an outcast makes it interesting to interact with people. also he is physically a magnificent spiceman, being both incredibly graceful and strong and powerful.
also altough he is very outgoing and often asks people many questions assuming they were his friends for a long time. in other respects he is a know-it-all giving lectures to even old wizards on subjects in the arcane, most of the time is is correct and wiser wizards reconginze him as an equal mind. other people are often just confused with him and are left with there mouth wide open and speechless.
either by the paralysis of rage, the awe of a raw intelgance, the magnifcence of one of the most trancendent bodies to walk Fauron, or the bewilderment of a know it all with little social grace. also the uncanny combination of his hieritage is odd to them extremly.
after the first meeting people either stick to thier biases or judge him by what he is, albiet most stick to thier racist tendencies (think Drizzt).
i can see a lot of conflict in a lot of places for his race.
the best place is Amn because he has dreams of bieng a merchant and also Gold is in itself justice.
Yes, Amn would be a good place for him, as that is a place where his mixed heritage would matter less than his personal wealth. Especially since you are leaning toward him being a merchant. Amn is a land of merchants after all, and so he would readily find a place there. That is not to say he would not still face racial prejudice, it just means that his wealth and mercantile success would override the worst of it.
However there is a downside to Amn, as well. Amn is very much anti-wizard. You should read Lands of Intrigue to get a feel for Amn. Here is some select information that I have taken from Lands of Intrigue for you. One relates to history, and an explanation for Amn's anti-wizard leanings, and the other is about the Cowled Wizards.
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The only major problems that erupted during these years involved evil wizards, as a number of wizards' schools and isolated conjurers unleashed many a monster or plague into the lands of Amn. While no one today remembers the specifics of these past actions, the consequences live on: Wizards in Amn are viewed with suspicion at best, and persecuted at worst. Amnian folklore and aphorisms have a distinctly anti-wizard bent.
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That which people do not understand, they fear Given all the magical mishaps and evils let loose by wizards in Amn's history, is it any wonder that wizards are censured, shunned, and nearly outlawed there?
The Cowled Wizards were originally created by Alisar of Esmeltaran over a century ago to preserve magical lore in a realm that might benefit from this knowledge despite the peoples' fears. The wizards saw themselves as saviors of the Art and as agents of Azuth and Deneir. Moving underground, they became librarians of lore and teachers to those with potential. The Cowled Wizards also kept an eye on foreign wizards passing through Amn, keeping rogue wizards in line to protect Amnians and the Cowled Wizards' secrecy.
In organization, each cell of Cowled Wizards is isolated in a town or city, and the highest-level mage of the settlement rules. As long as politics do not pit one cell leader against the first and still largest Athkatlan cell and its leader (Khollynnus Paac, a textiles merchant and 17th-level wizard), local Cowled Wizards can meet others in Athkatla in secret rooms beneath Jann Lane. One may learn here of contacts who can lead a person to distant Cowled Wizard cells, to join or communicate with the wizards there.
By day, the Cowled Wizards work as merchants, booksellers, herbalists, apothecaries, or the like. In meetings, they wear their cowled hoods and robes (based on those of graduates of the School of Wonder, destroyed decades ago). Any Cowled Wizards can share his identity with family, local wizards, or correspondents, but the cowls allow anonymity if desired. Most Cowled Wizards know only two or three other members' true names.
Many wonder why the Cowled Wizards remain in Amn at all, given the relative intolerance to magic there. Most in the membership simply don't want to abandon their homeland. Others are firmly entrenched among Amn's many power structures, and still others believe they must keep Azuth's faith and Mystra's magic alive here.
If your character is going to spend time in Amn, then he is going to have interactions with the Cowled Wizards. His open practice of magic would not be tolerated, and it would be something that he would have to hide. If he decides to live in Amn, he should consider becoming a member of the Cowled Wizards. However, I doubt he would rise high within their ranks due to his race, despite his... unique talents. The exception to this rule is if he manages to develop a great deal of power and influence within the organization, which would allow him to essentially stomp on those who seek to oppress him. However, him acting in such a way would seem to go against the characters nature, and so as a result; I would suspect that he would remain a low ranking member.
He may have some legitimate friends within the organization, though, individuals that would have his back when the chips are down. One or two individuals that would respect him, and would consequently look out for his best interests.
Being a Cowled Wizard also works out well for him, as it allows him to effectively be part of an "underground railroad" type organization... an organization that would protect other wizards from persecution. This could very much be used to appeal to his good nature; doing the right thing, not really receiving credit or recognition or praise for it, but doing it anyway.
The one thing that I would caution you on is to really, really, really think about your characters background. Think about what his life would have been like growing up. Think about the challenges he would have faced, and in particular the emotional and mental (and perhaps even physical) scars that he continues to carry with him. You are building a character who has faced significant challenges literally from the moment he drew his first breath.
You should really be thinking about all the tragedy, misfortune, and bigotry he has faced throughout his life up until this point. These are things that are going to shape him, and it is going to reveal how he became who he is today. One way to look at this character is to say, 'it is the challenges and the struggles he has faced that have defined him.' That is simply the truth, this character has faced challenges and struggles all his life, and he will continue to face nothing but challenges and struggles for as long as he continues to live. There will literally be people out there, when they learn of his existence, who will seek to kill him simply for who he is (mostly Elves and anti-Wizard types in Amn). There will literally be people who will try to kill his parents (assuming that they are still alive and have not been killed already) as a result of their freakish and abominable union.
In particular the moment the Eldreth Veluuthra learn of his existence, he and his family would be hunted and hounded relentlessly. |
Edited by - Aldrick on 10 Oct 2014 17:21:00 |
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Xal Valzar
Learned Scribe
Argentina
214 Posts |
Posted - 10 Oct 2014 : 18:25:22
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quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones
So, your namesake is physically magnificent and a mental paragon. With all due honesty, I'm going to ask you to please take a good, long look at your character. As written, he's either a textbook Mary Sue, or rolled all 18's with the paragon template slapped on.
I have no idea what you're trying to say in the rest of your posts. Wizard-fighter character class? Gish or go home, basically, since you'll be massively gimping yourself otherwise. Or play a duskblade.
well in a sense hes like Othello, a virtuous character that gets slowed down by his trusting nature and that he is different. so yeah in a sense hes somewhat of a mary sue. though he is not too socialy graceful and is somewhat easily distracted. secondly if ur an orc ur strong, if your an elf your graceful, if your both ur physicly maginficent. also a wizard gotta be smart.
whats a Duskblade and what do you mean by gimping myself? |
Knowledge is Power |
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 10 Oct 2014 : 19:25:43
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| Duskblades were an ancient order of fighter/mage elves predating the bladesingers. They differed in that they fought decked out in plate-mail. They were known as Nael'kerym (duskblade) or sometimes H' ei' Yal Drathinmalee' (steel-dancers.) However, whatever remains left of the Vyshaan in present-day Faerun would likely be even more intolerant than the Eldreth Veluuthra. I imagine that whatever is left of these ancient families are in fact, the most militant among them. |
Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
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Edited by - Fellfire on 10 Oct 2014 23:38:05 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 10 Oct 2014 : 19:26:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Xal Valzar
quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones
So, your namesake is physically magnificent and a mental paragon. With all due honesty, I'm going to ask you to please take a good, long look at your character. As written, he's either a textbook Mary Sue, or rolled all 18's with the paragon template slapped on.
I have no idea what you're trying to say in the rest of your posts. Wizard-fighter character class? Gish or go home, basically, since you'll be massively gimping yourself otherwise. Or play a duskblade.
well in a sense hes like Othello, a virtuous character that gets slowed down by his trusting nature and that he is different. so yeah in a sense hes somewhat of a mary sue. though he is not too socialy graceful and is somewhat easily distracted. secondly if ur an orc ur strong, if your an elf your graceful, if your both ur physicly maginficent. also a wizard gotta be smart.
whats a Duskblade and what do you mean by gimping myself?
I, personally, would not assume that a graceful parent and a strong parent results in a kid that is both graceful and strong. I've known lots of people that did not share such traits with their parents.
It's highly possible that one trait would simply override the other -- either strong but not particularly dexterous, or quite dexterous but not strong. I'd find that more likely than getting the best of both worlds. |
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Xal Valzar
Learned Scribe
Argentina
214 Posts |
Posted - 10 Oct 2014 : 21:54:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I, personally, would not assume that a graceful parent and a strong parent results in a kid that is both graceful and strong. I've known lots of people that did not share such traits with their parents.
It's highly possible that one trait would simply override the other -- either strong but not particularly dexterous, or quite dexterous but not strong. I'd find that more likely than getting the best of both worlds.
well its not a question of traits over ridding the other. Orcs have strong muscles and broad builds as dominante traits, as evidence of half orcs that are very big and strong. Elves have long muscles and are quite slender bodies as dominante genes, as evidence by half elfs.
so a half orc and half elf would be very very likely to get both those dominant traits. |
Knowledge is Power |
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Aldrick
Senior Scribe
909 Posts |
Posted - 10 Oct 2014 : 22:03:26
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What system are you using to build the character? You have described the character as strong, graceful, attractive, and intelligent at different points. I assume you would also describe him as wise as well. That covers pretty much every D&D ability score--that's what Lord of Bones meant, I believe, by saying you must have rolled 18's in everything.
It is all nice and wonderful to have a concept, but sometimes when it comes down to actually building what you have in your head... things turn out differently. So...
What system / edition are you using to build the character?
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Xal Valzar
Learned Scribe
Argentina
214 Posts |
Posted - 10 Oct 2014 : 22:35:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Xal Valzar
quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones
So, your namesake is physically magnificent and a mental paragon. With all due honesty, I'm going to ask you to please take a good, long look at your character. As written, he's either a textbook Mary Sue, or rolled all 18's with the paragon template slapped on.
I have no idea what you're trying to say in the rest of your posts. Wizard-fighter character class? Gish or go home, basically, since you'll be massively gimping yourself otherwise. Or play a duskblade.
well in a sense hes like Othello, a virtuous character that gets slowed down by his trusting nature and that he is different. so yeah in a sense hes somewhat of a mary sue. though he is not too socialy graceful and is somewhat easily distracted. secondly if ur an orc ur strong, if your an elf your graceful, if your both ur physicly maginficent. also a wizard gotta be smart.
whats a Duskblade and what do you mean by gimping myself?
I, personally, would not assume that a graceful parent and a strong parent results in a kid that is both graceful and strong. I've known lots of people that did not share such traits with their parents.
It's highly possible that one trait would simply override the other -- either strong but not particularly dexterous, or quite dexterous but not strong. I'd find that more likely than getting the best of both worlds.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 10 Oct 2014 : 23:08:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Xal Valzar
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I, personally, would not assume that a graceful parent and a strong parent results in a kid that is both graceful and strong. I've known lots of people that did not share such traits with their parents.
It's highly possible that one trait would simply override the other -- either strong but not particularly dexterous, or quite dexterous but not strong. I'd find that more likely than getting the best of both worlds.
well its not a question of traits over ridding the other. Orcs have strong muscles and broad builds as dominante traits, as evidence of half orcs that are very big and strong. Elves have long muscles and are quite slender bodies as dominante genes, as evidence by half elfs.
so a half orc and half elf would be very very likely to get both those dominant traits.
So, by that logic, would a halfling-elf crossbreed be very very likely to be both tall and short? |
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 10 Oct 2014 : 23:34:15
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| Bow down to the elflings. |
Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 10 Oct 2014 : 23:41:01
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| I'd think orc/elves much more likely to be malformed and misshapen than transcendant. |
Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
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Xal Valzar
Learned Scribe
Argentina
214 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2014 : 00:07:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Aldrick
What system are you using to build the character? You have described the character as strong, graceful, attractive, and intelligent at different points. I assume you would also describe him as wise as well. That covers pretty much every D&D ability score--that's what Lord of Bones meant, I believe, by saying you must have rolled 18's in everything.
It is all nice and wonderful to have a concept, but sometimes when it comes down to actually building what you have in your head... things turn out differently. So...
What system / edition are you using to build the character?
im using 5e , his scores are 15 str, 15 int, 14 con, 14 dex, wis 10, charisma 8- racial modifers are +1 to con, str and dex. altough he is very atractive he has the social graces of a sterotypical nerd, always assuming that what his intrest is should be the topic of discussion, talking to people out of nowhere as if he knew them intimatly, brining up odd topics of discussion, having intectual debates on every subject.
also he has stern princples which - depending on your view of ethics - might be a bad or a very good thing. |
Knowledge is Power |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7974 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2014 : 00:13:45
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Elves are (to most people) beautiful, graceful, intelligent creatures. Parents select partners who are as beautiful as possible to ensure their children will be as beautiful as possible. Nobody ever talks about ugly elves, what sort of response do they get from other elves? Seems like an interesting topic, I can easily imagine "hideous" and "malformed" elves seeking adventure after they have abandoned (or been banished from) intolerant societies. Old AD&D 1E/2E had minimum ability score requirements to qualify for demihuman races, but still, that incredibly-rare minimum elf Charisma score of 8 must be seen as something utterly repulsive in their culture!
Orcs select for brute size, strength, endurance, aggression, and savagery. Beauty falls by the wayside. Worse, it's kind of hard to stay beautiful when you lead such a violent and difficult lifestyle, probably far moreso when being attractive is a disadvantage that can single you out for some harsh (even fatal) treatment from others of your kind.
It would be difficult to say whether elven beauty or orcish ugliness would emerge as the dominant trait being expressed in a first-generation crossbreed, although a second-generation of the same might revert almost entirely to the appearance of their purebred grandparents. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2014 : 00:47:23
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| 8 charisma? That is not much more attractive than a two headed circus freak. Theres an idea. They could talk to each other, like a ettin. Ingame, I wouldn't throw two coppers to an 8 CHA whore. Maybe "freak-cabana-boy" would be a better class. |
Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
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Edited by - Fellfire on 11 Oct 2014 00:57:52 |
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Xal Valzar
Learned Scribe
Argentina
214 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2014 : 03:50:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Fellfire
Duskblades were an ancient order of fighter/mage elves predating the bladesingers. They differed in that they fought decked out in plate-mail. They were known as Nael'kerym (duskblade) or sometimes H' ei' Yal Drathinmalee' (steel-dancers.) However, whatever remains left of the Vyshaan in present-day Faerun would likely be even more intolerant than the Eldreth Veluuthra. I imagine that whatever is left of these ancient families are in fact, the most militant among them.
something intresting can be that he has to uncover the tradition of the Duskblades to further his discplne, thus having to deal with some people who might oppose him. |
Knowledge is Power |
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Aldrick
Senior Scribe
909 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2014 : 04:00:31
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Wow. Eight Charisma. That is pretty tough. And to top it all off, you want him to be very attractive. This means you are dumping all the penalties onto the social aspect of charisma.
I would say that being introverted / shy is not enough to justify a negative penalty in charisma. That falls well within the domain of normal, and you stand outside of what is normal. To top it all off you also want your character to be physically attractive.
Since you are dumping all of the weight of the penalty onto the social / personality side of charisma, I would rule that you should select some type of disorder or disability that your character faces.
Here is a list of personality disorders:
Antisocial Personality Disorder
Avoidant Personality Disorder
Borderline Personality Disorder
Dependent Personality Disorder
Histrionic Personality Disorder
Dissociative Identity Disorder
Narcissistic Personality Disorder
Obsessive-Compulsive Personality Disorder
Paranoid Personality Disorder
Schizoid Personality Disorder
Schizotypal Personality Disorder
Alternatively, he could have issues that impair social function because he has an Autism Spectrum Disorder.
I would look over the disorders I listed, and select one of them that best suits your character. Then create a list of character traits that can be quickly be referred to by both you and the DM during play. For example, if you select Borderline Personality Disorder your traits could be: Fear of Abandonment, Unstable Sense of Self, Impulsive Behavior, Secretive Self-Mutilation, Paranoid Thoughts, Emotionally Unstable, and Frequent Angry Outbursts.
If I were the DM, I would give you an XP bonus for playing them out. Consistently not playing them out, or only playing them out in situations where it does not matter, would result in a readjustment of your ability scores to get your CHA to 10--so you have no penalty.
It is important to keep in mind that it is called a penalty for a reason. The fact that you want your character to be physically attractive on top of having a negative charisma penalty basically makes matters even worse.
I also think you need to justify having an eight charisma merchant. That is extremely difficult to pull off, considering the fact that he is required to actively deal with the public. He might be a merchant, but it is hard to see his business as being successful as he certainly lacks the social ability to make the necessary connections and contacts to pull it off... to say nothing about the racial bias he is already up against. |
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Are Elf-Orcs possible?
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