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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
 Posted - 06 Apr 2012 : 16:53:09
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The Rise of the Underdark is upon us.
See THIS LINK for a video and information on the event.
I’m curious how this will affect the Realms: will it be the latest RSE or just one of those regional things that happened?
Glad to see the Realms getting some more attention.
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Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
Edited by - Jeremy Grenemyer on 06 Apr 2012 17:11:28
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader
USA
3131 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2012 : 17:04:30
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| Im sure it will cause massive chaos in regional locales, but personally i think the drow are too chaotic and untrustworthy to form any kind of widescale longterm campaign against the surface dwellers. |
Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin
Amazon "KindleUnlimited" Free Trial: http://amzn.to/2AJ4yD2
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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore
USA
1446 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2012 : 17:29:00
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| It will be interesting to see what this will be about. Maybe the drow are ready to reignite the Crown Wars? Or finally get on with the Second Directive of Lolth and wipe out the surface elves? I'd guess it has something to do with Lolth attempting to become the new Mystra. I read somewhere shes gonna send her minions to collect old artifacts, the bones of long dead archmages for some sort of grand ritual. Maybe she's going to expend her minions in a chaotic gamble to see this happen? Pretty interesting, I don't seem to recall Wizards putting a video out for much of anything before and really it was kind of cool to watch. I'm fine with the drow swarming to the surface for a few years at their godesses direction, but man it almost made it sound like they are coming up to the surface for good. Restablishment of the Land Under Shadows would be cool, but not sure about permanent resettlement. Guess we'll have to wait and see! |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2012 : 18:52:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Eilserus
I'd guess it has something to do with Lolth attempting to become the new Mystra.
Likely. When I first heard of it, I didn't like it at all. How many deities must quarrel to possess the Weave and kill Mystra?! But in time, I begin to see how Lloth trying something which Shar failed to do can be...interesting...
I hope this 'Rise' is not just another 'drow vs surface elves' thing, but 'drow vs all races.' |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Lirdolin
Learned Scribe
Germany
196 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2012 : 18:56:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer
The Rise of the Underdark is upon us.
(...)
I’m curious how this will affect the Realms: will it be the latest RSE or just one of those regional things that happened?
Considering the burn marks on the map in the video and the products we know of, I would say we can a least expect attacks on the Dalelands (Twisted Tower in Shadowdale)
Raven's Bluff (Jack Ravenwild novel)
Akanûl (Spinner of Lies/The Deamon Weave)
Thesk (Skein of Shadows?)
That would make it a pretty large scale attack. |
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2012 : 20:01:45
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You know, if they do tie this in (or lead it) with Lolth's attempt to gather ancient Mystran artifacts and try to claim the mantle of the Weave, it could either be really cheesy or really fun. It'd be cheesy if they have gods in novels acting like mono-vision NPCs. It would be cool if the drow collectively rise against all nations in a huge bloodbath, while simultaneously their mages (like Gromph and Q'arlynd) lead bloody expeditions on the surface to grab all the magic epic doodads.
Heck, I would be SOLD hook line and sinker if they managed to get Elaine Cunningham to tie in a story about archmage Liriel Baenre showing up at a critical moment to fight Gromph or Q'arlynd. This could be an amazing opportunity for a novel by Lisa Smedman.
Hmmm... ! Who better than the ancient weaver to reclaim the Weave? Plus, any way to slap Shar into next week would get my approval. Shar needs to be taken down like 5 notches.
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
Edited by - Therise on 06 Apr 2012 20:03:30 |
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Aulduron
Learned Scribe
USA
343 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2012 : 20:50:05
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| Q'arlynd is no spider kisser. He was on the other side of the sava board. I'd like to think that if Gromph went along with it it would only be to get artifacts for himself. |
"Those with talent become wizards, Those without talent spend their lives praying for it"
-Procopio Septus |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2012 : 22:01:14
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If its still free to paly than maybe I'll look into it.
waht detests me though is how you get the druid class.
insulted.
druid should be with purchase and not as a bonus to preorder |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2012 : 22:34:52
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| So, uhh, what's that supposed to be? A computer game? An expansion, when they said they weren't doing those anymore? Something else? As an ad, that fails miserably. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2012 : 22:38:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Aulduron
Q'arlynd is no spider kisser. He was on the other side of the sava board. I'd like to think that if Gromph went along with it it would only be to get artifacts for himself.
Q'arlynd is a survivor and ensconced as a city archmage. Neither he nor Gromph pay any true fealty to Lolth, but they are invested in drow culture and the power structure. Even if they'd try to block Lolth's absorption of Mystra's portfolio, they still must act as big players in the game.
And who knows, it may behoove them to aid Lolth... depending on the circumstances. Whatever the case, this RSE feels Realmsy.
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2012 : 22:42:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
So, uhh, what's that supposed to be? A computer game? An expansion, when they said they weren't doing those anymore? Something else? As an ad, that fails miserably.
Novels upcoming, this is their shared theme.
They may tie it in to D&D online aswell, but this is a series of novels for sure. You can read the preview blurbs on Amazon.
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
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Thieran
Learned Scribe
Germany
293 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2012 : 22:42:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
So, uhh, what's that supposed to be? A computer game? An expansion, when they said they weren't doing those anymore? Something else? As an ad, that fails miserably.
I don't think marketing people would necessarily agree with you - raising people's curiosity in such a way is not an uncommon strategy these days. |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Thieran
Learned Scribe
Germany
293 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2012 : 23:03:39
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It's a multiplatform narrative thing (I think).
Edit: Here is some more info and explanation: http://gamemasters.com/?p=243 |
Edited by - Thieran on 07 Apr 2012 00:45:59 |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6646 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2012 : 00:51:24
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Colour me bored. Just how many drow-centred novel series does the Realms have to endure? Talk about only having one well on the creative property.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore
USA
1446 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2012 : 01:28:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Thieran
It's a multiplatform narrative thing (I think).
Edit: Here is some more info and explanation: http://gamemasters.com/?p=243
Quite the slew of stuff we have coming. The new tidbit about Salvatore's new novel has me interested for sure.
Makes me wonder if Ed is going to write about a reborn Mystra kicking the everliving crap out of Lolth.
I'd die to see some new Volo's guides or some heavy hitting stuff on ancient and current dwarven realms, but if this massively publicized drow arc brings in the cash, which supposedly anything with the word drow does, maybe that will fund us seeing lots of new sourcebooks and sweet lore for 5E and beyond.
Ed has stated he's pretty happy with the way the Realms is going, so it can't be all that bad right? |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2012 : 01:35:11
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Drizzt, Drizzt, Drizzt, Drizzt, Drizzt, Drizzt... 
When you got only one author who has really gone 'mainstream', you got to back your one-trick pony.
However, it does seem kinda cool - I think the video sold me on it (I've been saying all along cartoons are a MUST!) Didn't really like Lolth's voice-over - sounded a bit too matronly, but whatever. Also not looking forward to yet another RSE - seems no one is really listening at all. It almost feels like their 'to do' list is everything folks keep complaining about. But like I said, the video got me intrigued, so I will keep my eye on this.
Interesting that the 'fire' erupted on the map in Cormyr and spread to the Dalelands. Cormyr, The Dales, Drow... I guess when you already have a plethora of material on a subject, it makes your job somewhat easier. Just thank god it wasn't fish-like, ate brains, or had tentacles - I'll take drow over that Alternity crap any day. At least Ed helped shaped D&Ds Drow.
Apparently, they have decided FR's 'theme' is Drow. 
I am wondering, though, what kind of RSE they could do that wouldn't piss people off? I can't really think of anything that hasn't been over-used, or "doesn't feel like the Realms'. Not taking their side or anything, but if you think about it, they are "damned if they do, and damned if they don't" - not a position anyone wants to be in.
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"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 07 Apr 2012 01:35:39 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2012 : 01:35:20
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Colour me bored. Just how many drow-centred novel series does the Realms have to endure? Talk about only having one well on the creative property.
-- George Krashos
Indeed.
Remember 2002's "Year of the Drow?" Well, it really seems more like a decade, with 2012 ramping things up in terms of all-things-dark-and-evil-elven.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore
USA
1446 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2012 : 01:54:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Drizzt, Drizzt, Drizzt, Drizzt, Drizzt, Drizzt...
When you got only one author who has really gone 'mainstream', you got to back your one-trick pony.
However, it does seem kinda cool - I think the video sold me on it (I've been saying all along cartoons are a MUST!) Didn't really like Lolth's voice-over - sounded a bit too matronly, but whatever. Also not looking forward to yet another RSE - seems no one is really listening at all. It almost feels like their 'to do' list is everything folks keep complaining about. But like I said, the video got me intrigued, so I will keep my eye on this.
Interesting that the 'fire' erupted on the map in Cormyr and spread to the Dalelands. Cormyr, The Dales, Drow... I guess when you already have a plethora of material on a subject, it makes your job somewhat easier. Just thank god it wasn't fish-like, ate brains, or had tentacles - I'll take drow over that Alternity crap any day. At least Ed helped shaped D&Ds Drow.
Apparently, they have decided FR's 'theme' is Drow.
I am wondering, though, what kind of RSE they could do that wouldn't piss people off? I can't really think of anything that hasn't been over-used, or "doesn't feel like the Realms'. Not taking their side or anything, but if you think about it, they are "damned if they do, and damned if they don't" - not a position anyone wants to be in.
I'm leery of a big RSE also. But as long as they're not killing gods or blowing up entire nations I'd be pretty OK with a few cities burned down or some sort of freak incursion. The video makes it sound like they're coming up permanently. Where would they go?
There's no way they are gonna let Lolth be the new goddess of magic, so I'd imagine after some chaos and carnage they'll be put right back into their holes. |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2012 : 03:41:37
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I'll puke if the Drow take over.
I love the Drow; but this mania is too much. They are an AWESOME underdark evil...but on the surface?
Isolated groups I can take...but seriously? |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7969 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2012 : 04:03:57
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Drow-mania is just part of D&D these days my friend, this ain't Second Edition anymore, and authors like RAS are always on the forefront of another drow trilogy. This looks like a teaser for a video game platform of some kind, some of the CGI is definitely only realtime game-engine quality.
[Edit]
I notice that drow are sort of a charcoal grey-brown again instead of a cerulean-indigo blue/purple ... fashions seem to come and go along with artist turnover.
Maybe drow skin tone changes when they move to the surface, a change from faerzress radiations to solar/lunar radiations (the same change which cause drowcrafted items to rapidly decay) might affect drow skin pigments much like exposure to sunlight eventually causes pale humans to darken. I happen to like the smurf-blue drow appearance a bit more, they're easier to shoot at in twilight. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 07 Apr 2012 04:27:47 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2012 : 04:12:01
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But its NOT a godswar, or planer re-structuring, or some mega-mcguffin belching-out meteors, or a 1000 foot tall tentacled horror, etc, etc...
According to all previous (FR) Drow lore, one of Lolth's tenets was for the eventual return of the drow to the surface. This not only violates no canon, nor causes bizarre abnormalities to the physics of the setting, but it is something that is long overdo, actually. As much as I dislike this need to do these over-arching cross-over type storylines, you have to wonder just what the hell took Lolth so long to kick the filthy procrastinators in their ebony arses.
This one isn't nearly as bad as most, or what 'might have been' {shudder}, so maybe we should at least try to see the potential in it before we start lambasting it? They want to go all 'World of Darkness' on us, fine... I just think it could have been a LOT worse.
Wonder what year it takes place in. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 07 Apr 2012 04:13:58 |
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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore
USA
1446 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2012 : 05:08:48
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| I think it'd be cool if we saw a reclamation of the Lands Under Shadow by the drow. Myth Drannor VS The Twisted Tower could make for a fun campaign arc. At any rate we should see, hopefully, some new cities and detailed lore. And while Wizards is all about this, rise up and reclaim past heritage business, let's see them work in the reclamation of Tethyamar by the Iron House! |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7969 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2012 : 05:40:52
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| I personally feel an invasion swarming out of the Underdark could be exciting (and terrifyingly successful) if it's illithids, or beholders, darkspawn, dragons, even Githyanki. Everyone's used to drow, they come to the same neighbourly barbecues as the orcs. I shall not rant further ... but really, aren't there other things in the Realms which are languishing for lore while drow get assigned teams of full-time writers? |
[/Ayrik] |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2012 : 15:05:16
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| Hey, don't feel bad. We can always hope that 5e comes along and wipes it all out. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2012 : 16:28:45
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How do you know this isn't the lead-up to 5e?
You really don't believe they only started designing for it when they announced it to US, do you? For all we know, they finished 5e three days before 4e was released. 
But seriously, lets put aside our grognard hats for a moment: The drow return to the surface, and it looks like it's focused around the eastern heartlands FOR A CHANGE (I am so SICK of Menzoberranzan*). this not only (partially?) un-do's the 'return of the Elves' in Cormanthor (something I felt nerfed quite a bit of adventuring possibilities), but it also brings a VERY big and EVIL threat up alongside the Shades, who would have almost no interest in allying with 'filthy humans' (if they do it right - if they ally, they lost me completely).
That returns a bit of the balance to the setting - in Ed's original, the 'evil factions' did more to curtail each other (Zhents vs Red Wizards, for example) then the 'forces for good' did (and often, the Harpers and others cleverly pushed these factions into warring on each other). Without some other 'big bad' to compete with, the Shades should have steam-rolled right over everyone years ago (after the Spellplague, which doesn't seem to have hurt them in the least).
There is a ton of potential in this, but at the same time, they can really screw it up (I hope people who truly understand the underpinnings of the Realms are steering this storyline). I think I know what they are hoping to achieve, and its smart business, if they manage to pull it off (it will take finesse, NOT a sledgehammer).
I don't think I'll have the Realms I grew to love back - thats become painfully obvious - but maybe the new setting can offer something in its own right. Different does NOT = bad, BAD = bad. We have just gotten so used to the two being one-and-the-same lately we've forgotten the difference. 
*Just the fact I can type that name correctly without having to look it up shows how over-used that locale is - I can't even spell Netherese right, half the time. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 09 Apr 2012 18:37:09 |
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Aldrick
Senior Scribe
909 Posts |
Posted - 08 Apr 2012 : 22:25:15
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I'm in large agreement with Markus. We'll have to see what happens before we make any serious judgements.
That being said... have there been any definitive answers as to what is going on in Evermeet in 4E FR? Last I heard most everyone (including the island itself) was teleported into the Feywild during the Spellplague. However, an "echo" of the island (in ruins) still existed on Toril.
I think it could be interesting to see the drow come up and take over this "echo" in an attempt to build a new Dark Elven nation on the surface. Meanwhile, on the mainland isolated groups of drow (mostly distractions) scurry out of their holes and cause all sorts of problems.
I'd love to see them kick the Shades in the teeth, and put some serious stress on Myth Drannor. They could bring some much needed balance to the region, especially as it comes to the Shades, while at the same time still not diminishing the threats / danger in the region.
It could work... meanwhile, the Drow on the reclaimed "echo" of Evermeet are gathering... preparing... scheming... everyone is focused on what they see coming out of the ground... never suspecting the gathering storm far to the west.
Of course, Drow are grossly overdone, but I'll take them over some of the possible alternatives. Plus, as Markus points out this doesn't invalidate cannon in any way. It was always Lolth's plan to see her children return to the surface, and considering the fact she's taken care of her enemies within the Drow Pantheon... what's holding her back? |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3802 Posts |
Posted - 08 Apr 2012 : 23:06:13
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A drow nation sounds wrong to me.
The concept at the core of the whole drow mentality is that an individual is intrinsically worthless, expendable and the only measure of worth is the power one has on the others. Everything a drow does is obsessively aimed to get more of it, leading to countless and endless internal struggles.
You can't build a nation on this idea: there is no sense of cooperation, no possibility of cultural growth (even though there's still place for innovation). They already have problems keeping struggles at bay in their towns (they weren't able to expand in the Underdark because of it), let alone in a whole nation. Such a nation would crumble in no time.
Also, it would take years for the drow to adapt to sunlight. A few of them could hide in forests/caves during the morning, but a great mass wouldn't be able to do so (unless they removed their sensitiveness to sunlight in 4th ed).
And, afaik, Lloth's tenets were two: one was to dominate all Underdark races, the other was to destroy the elves, but she didn't want the drow to return to the surface. In fact the reason Wendonai lost Lolth's favor was that he induced the drow to attack the Elven Court, because she couldn't stand the idea of her new toys returning to the surface. So I suspect this event might just be the drow spreading some havoc on the surface, which I wouldn't be happy about at all.
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Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
Edited by - Irennan on 08 Apr 2012 23:09:40 |
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Aldrick
Senior Scribe
909 Posts |
Posted - 08 Apr 2012 : 23:50:58
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Of course a Drow nation would be inherently unstable, and it would be built entirely on domination, fear, and cruelty. Really, I'd see it no different than one of their larger cities in the Underdark simply on a grander scale. We know those settlements are capable of defending themselves, and securing what they need to survive. The same principle is applied on a larger scale.
Though, I don't really have any idea of how much drow and Lolth have changed in the past 100+ years. Pre-4E Lolth was able to become a Greater Goddess and secure her total domination over the Drow Pantheon. After that, she has to follow it up with something big, right? It's not like Lolth wasn't planning ahead; she was moving toward some type of goal. It's also not realistic to expect Lolth to sit there and say, "Well I've won. I'm going to chill out now because I'm totally satisfied and happy."
I think some sort of surface expansion by the Drow would be a logical extension of Lolth's victories. Whether or not it is successful... that's a different question entirely. |
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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore
USA
1446 Posts |
Posted - 09 Apr 2012 : 00:07:39
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| The second directive of Lolth is for the drow to destroy the surface elves and seize their lands and holdings. At least this was the case in 2E, not sure if that was nixed in 3rd or 4th though. |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3802 Posts |
Posted - 09 Apr 2012 : 00:20:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Aldrick
Of course a Drow nation would be inherently unstable, and it would be built entirely on domination, fear, and cruelty. Really, I'd see it no different than one of their larger cities in the Underdark simply on a grander scale. We know those settlements are capable of defending themselves, and securing what they need to survive. The same principle is applied on a larger scale.
Though, I don't really have any idea of how much drow and Lolth have changed in the past 100+ years. Pre-4E Lolth was able to become a Greater Goddess and secure her total domination over the Drow Pantheon. After that, she has to follow it up with something big, right? It's not like Lolth wasn't planning ahead; she was moving toward some type of goal. It's also not realistic to expect Lolth to sit there and say, "Well I've won. I'm going to chill out now because I'm totally satisfied and happy."
I think some sort of surface expansion by the Drow would be a logical extension of Lolth's victories. Whether or not it is successful... that's a different question entirely.
A city is far easier to keep relatively stable than a nation. The latter, as I said, can't be built using the drow way of thinking as base. It would destroy itself because of conflicts among its cities (which happen among their underground settlements), and factions of the same city (etc...) and would be extremely vulnerable to attacks from other races. It's not like people would just sit and watch drow taking over the surface, or like deities would do the same watching Lloth becoming the new Mystra (and if WotC has them doing so, well... shame on it).
Also, they would be exposed to attacks from other Underdark races, so they'd have war on too many zones if they actually wanted to settle on the surface.
There's a reason if the drow have never been able to conquer the Underdark, and that is their brainwashed mentality that prevents them from showing united front to their foes for enough time to win a war.
The best I see them achieving are raids that bring destruction over surface civilizations: the drow would get slaves, resources and treasures from them, and Lloth would get the pleasure of inflicting pain to (or utterly destroying) the hated elves and other surfacers, showing them that she has 'power'(which would be totally fitting as one of her ''Grand Schemes'' because, after all, she does it just for the sake of it).
Or it could be a diversionary action to take her enemies' attention away from her true plan to get control over the Weave.
However, these are just my guesses and, to be honest, I hope that they reveal to be false. It would be a pointless RSE if they were true.
EDIT: quote:
The second directive of Lolth is for the drow to destroy the surface elves and seize their lands and holdings. At least this was the case in 2E, not sure if that was nixed in 3rd or 4th though.
Well, I read of that fact about Wendonai on LEoF, so I guess it was changed in 3ed. Not sure about it though. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
Edited by - Irennan on 09 Apr 2012 00:24:08 |
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Rise of the Underdark
