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Xal Valzar
Learned Scribe
Argentina
214 Posts |
 Posted - 02 Oct 2014 : 05:59:30
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I have a hero that is half an elf and half an Orc, and he is also to inherit the King's Blade of the Elves of Evermeet since he is a descendant to Moonflower javascript:insertsmilie(' ') . long story.
so can there be half elfs half orcs? if so how would they look like? what features would they adopt? will they be able to enter Revere and trance or do they need to sleep for 8 hours? Will they be as gifted in magic? as graceful as the elves and as strong and well built as the orcs? will they have the keen minds as most elves have? how long will they live? will they have darkvision since both sides have it? will they combine the elegant features of elves with the rugged features of orcs to look more sublime or are they more likely to look horrible and awkward or will they look like humans?
any details you can say will be very useful.
i tried to deduce some of this out of half elfs and half orcs but with not too much luck.
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Xal Valzar
Learned Scribe
Argentina
214 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2014 : 06:17:06
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To be precise this character's father is a Gray Orc from the Moonsea and his mother is the daughter of Lamruil son of Zaor and Amlaruil Moonflower, making her a Sun Elf.
Also would this picture give an accurate physical description?
http://i.imgur.com/OhkJZ.jpg
except that his hair will be more dark blond and skin more gray and pale, what you can call olive colored on humans. and eyes pale blue. 6 feet and weighing 210 pounds and very strongly built and very lean. blond flowing hair and a round and squarish face(i know sounds odd but if u will meet me in real life you would know what that looks like). big lips. same nose and eyebrows and much smaller ears.
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2014 : 06:18:42
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there are half drow/ half orc.... or so was once said in some odd ball paragraph of a book that I don't remember which was
but yeah, there can be half elf/half orc, however a creature born that way would be considered an abomination and would not be followed if he even was able to wield the king's blade, even more so if the king's blade is a moonblade.( namely the orc half for the elves and the elf part for the orcs, both species would hate your hero)
as for its looks, yes a combo of both the elf and the orc.
statwise.... not sure
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why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2014 : 06:20:40
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before I forget
Amlaruil Moonflower's sword is a moonblade |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6646 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2014 : 06:52:02
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Well, your character is either a half-elf or a half-orc quite simply, and would have all the traits and stats for either sub-race, or perhaps a judicious mixture of the two.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Thauranil
Master of Realmslore
India
1591 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2014 : 10:24:00
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| There was a half drow, half orc character in the lady penitent series by Lisa Smedman so its certainly possible. |
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Baltas
Senior Scribe
Poland
955 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2014 : 11:27:46
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| Well Das Schwarze Auge/The Dark Eye RPG has a race of Half-Orcs, Half-Elves called Holberker/Holberkian. They appear in the Realms of Arkania: Shadows over Riva videogame, where thay are given a possitive role, although they are persecuted, both in the videogame, and tabletop version, and seem to be in general second and third class citizens. |
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1600 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2014 : 13:34:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Xal Valzar
(...) and his mother is the daughter of Lamruil son of Zaor and Amlaruil Moonflower, making her a Sun Elf.
Actually, both Zaor and Amlaruil (and also Lamruil) are Moon elves. She could be a Sun elf if her mother was a Sun elf, though. As for half-elf / half-orcs, I think it would only be impossible if the child would be born from violence. I think I read somewhere that in these cases the child, and sometimes the mother, will not survive (something about elven nature). Well, maybe I'm wrong.  |
"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."
The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood) |
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eeorey
Seeker
Bulgaria
96 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2014 : 13:35:05
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Well the Races of Faerun 3.5 sourcebook says this - "Half-orcs are invariably the product of a human and an orc, but stories are told of half-orcs carrying the blood of dwarves, goblins, hobgoblins, and even halflings, gnomes, and elves."
Also while on this note what would the child of a half-orc and a half-elf be? Fully human or a mongrelman? |
Edited by - eeorey on 02 Oct 2014 13:40:27 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2014 : 13:41:46
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There are characters with that mix of parentage in Palischuk in Vassa, but it was a mix of half-Elf & Half orc - there had to be a bit of human blood for the two to mix, IIRC (not sure of this is biological, or just the fact that no pure elf would ever have 'relations' with an orc, and vice-versa).
The main character with traits of both was female (can't recall her name), and was described as 'strangely beautiful'. I recall Artimus Antreri being attracted to her (and given that he's about as 'sexual' as Sheldon from Big Bang theory, thats really saying something). Or was it Jarlaxle? Whatever - everyone thought she was hot.
But from what I understand, it used to be canon (OD&D? 1e?) that elves and orcs could not interbreed directly... but so much has changed who even knows anymore.
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"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 02 Oct 2014 13:44:23 |
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Xal Valzar
Learned Scribe
Argentina
214 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2014 : 17:35:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Barastir
As for half-elf / half-orcs, I think it would only be impossible if the child would be born from violence. I think I read somewhere that in these cases the child, and sometimes the mother, will not survive (something about elven nature). Well, maybe I'm wrong.
well i think also Tolkienian Elf's soul would whiter away at the possibility of rape. But that does not apply to this charcter as both his parents took great risks to be with each other. On the other hand its hard to find good-looking orcs, his father had to be a Gray Orc to have smaller tusks and gray skin and look less monstrous in general. I love his father as a character since he can always look up to him and remember that his character is his to make! |
Knowledge is Power |
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Xal Valzar
Learned Scribe
Argentina
214 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2014 : 17:56:46
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quote:
Originally posted by sfdragon
but yeah, there can be half elf/half orc, however a creature born that way would be considered an abomination and would not be followed if he even was able to wield the king's blade, even more so if the king's blade is a moonblade.( namely the orc half for the elves and the elf part for the orcs, both species would hate your hero)
as for its looks, yes a combo of both the elf and the orc.
statwise.... not sure
he might be called an "abomination" for some reasons but people who abandon there prejudices see that in fact he looks like a god of male beauty. with a lean muscular body and a face of angled plains curving to meet each other.
well he might not be followed but as faith has what can you do... the moonblade choose him, also his idea can save magic - all of Elven kind - and maybe all of Fueran.
you see i have him be an Eldritch Knigh/Swordmage/Magus, basically a guy who puts magic into practice as apart from Mages who think knowledge is an end onto itself.
In the story Lloth is trying to take the place of godess of magic agian this time by using a Human Wizard out to undermine understanding of magic by saying magick is simply the best guess (this is Karl Popper in real life). He has gained a foothold in many magic communities and Lloth has fluttered her way into mainstream Elfen society by him. Giving her the image of a bad being but she gets the job done.
Xal was educated in magic by a human wizard that opposed both the ideas that magic is not to be understood and only used and that magic is to be understood and not used (he is Francis Bacon inspired). he goes on many adventures to prove that point and eventually wants to put the soul of his teacher to replace Mystra, by convincing here that magic is to be as such. (this is a story that some might call philosophical).
either ways the Elves have to choose between their racism or complete destruction of what they hold dear. |
Knowledge is Power |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2014 : 17:58:00
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I am not personally aware of any canon reasons to disallow an elf-orc crossbreed, other than the obviously unlikely odds of such a union. We have lore about the fertility of orcs, and about the fertility of elves (elves and dwarves can breed, after all!), so I can't think of a reason to disallow it.
Keep in mind, though, that some elves are xenophobic enough to dislike regular half-elves, even those like Arilyn who are directly descended from Amlauril. We see that in Elfshadow, when "Z'Beryl" died and her relatives showed up, argued about the moonblade, and generally acted like Arilyn didn't exist. In later books, it's commented on that a human like Laeral is more accepted than Arilyn would be, simply because of the latter's mixed blood.
So while I'd allow an elf-orc crossbreed, unless their parentage could be entirely hidden, they would not find any degree of acceptance among elves, except for some moon elves. |
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Xal Valzar
Learned Scribe
Argentina
214 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2014 : 18:02:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
The main character with traits of both was female (can't recall her name), and was described as 'strangely beautiful'. I recall Artimus Antreri being attracted to her (and given that he's about as 'sexual' as Sheldon from Big Bang theory, thats really saying something). Or was it Jarlaxle? Whatever - everyone thought she was hot.
he is considered very handsome if people take a look at him without their prejudices. he also jokes that he is simply an elf that took too many bulls strength potions :P. but people do say he looks exotic and handsome. |
Knowledge is Power |
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Xal Valzar
Learned Scribe
Argentina
214 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2014 : 18:06:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I am not personally aware of any canon reasons to disallow an elf-orc crossbreed, other than the obviously unlikely odds of such a union. We have lore about the fertility of orcs, and about the fertility of elves (elves and dwarves can breed, after all!), so I can't think of a reason to disallow it.
So while I'd allow an elf-orc crossbreed, unless their parentage could be entirely hidden, they would not find any degree of acceptance among elves, except for some moon elves.
oh i know that elfs and orcs hate him, and also drow and dwarves probably hate him, in other words anything with pointy ears. however it is funny since he embodies the virtues praised in Elven society. secondly even by elven (racist) standards he deserves some respect, after all he is a Moonflower...
lots of chances for conflict there. |
Knowledge is Power |
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Mirtek
Senior Scribe
595 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2014 : 19:39:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
(not sure of this is biological, or just the fact that no pure elf would ever have 'relations' with an orc, and vice-versa).
IIRC it's because of Corellon and Gruumsh willing it to not work. I think it was stated somewhere that elves & orcs can't crossbreed, but I don't remember where
However the Ghosts of Dragonspear Castle adventure gave us dworcs (something which I am also pretty sure was stated to be impossible in earlier sources), so why not?
It's a pretty cool picture in any case |
Edited by - Mirtek on 02 Oct 2014 19:40:55 |
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Xal Valzar
Learned Scribe
Argentina
214 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2014 : 19:47:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Mirtek
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
(not sure of this is biological, or just the fact that no pure elf would ever have 'relations' with an orc, and vice-versa).
IIRC it's because of Corellon and Gruumsh willing it to not work. I think it was stated somewhere that elves & orcs can't crossbreed, but I don't remember where.
well if u find it tell me.
secondly the fact that they can never crossbreed will be near impossible to establish since one would have such a small sample to begin with.
are Corellon and Gruumsh literally with Elves or Orcs all the time and govern their fertility? |
Knowledge is Power |
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Baltas
Senior Scribe
Poland
955 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2014 : 19:50:47
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Well, I guess that he's a warrior/spell-caster, so I think some orcs could accept him because of his strenght, but I guess that's not the angle your going with.
But I guess if he shows himself as a worthy person, and the fact he's Moonflower, may help him win at least respect, or recognition from elves. Maybe Xal could first win friends and followers among half-elves living among elves. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2014 : 19:55:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Xal Valzar
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I am not personally aware of any canon reasons to disallow an elf-orc crossbreed, other than the obviously unlikely odds of such a union. We have lore about the fertility of orcs, and about the fertility of elves (elves and dwarves can breed, after all!), so I can't think of a reason to disallow it.
So while I'd allow an elf-orc crossbreed, unless their parentage could be entirely hidden, they would not find any degree of acceptance among elves, except for some moon elves.
oh i know that elfs and orcs hate him, and also drow and dwarves probably hate him, in other words anything with pointy ears. however it is funny since he embodies the virtues praised in Elven society. secondly even by elven (racist) standards he deserves some respect, after all he is a Moonflower...
lots of chances for conflict there.
But that's the thing I was trying to point out: Arilyn Moonblade, and the reaction to her, shows that even being a Moonflower is not enough to overcome the stigma of mixed blood. And that was without the orc blood in the mix. |
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Xal Valzar
Learned Scribe
Argentina
214 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2014 : 19:56:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Baltas
Well, I guess that he's a warrior/spell-caster, so I think some orcs could accept him because of his strenght, but I guess that's not the angle your going with.
But I guess if he shows himself as a worthy person, and the fact he's Moonflower, may help him win at least respect, or recognition from elves. Maybe Xal could first win friends and followers among half-elves living among elves.
thats a very good idea, thanks a bunch! |
Knowledge is Power |
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Xal Valzar
Learned Scribe
Argentina
214 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2014 : 20:01:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Xal Valzar
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I am not personally aware of any canon reasons to disallow an elf-orc crossbreed, other than the obviously unlikely odds of such a union. We have lore about the fertility of orcs, and about the fertility of elves (elves and dwarves can breed, after all!), so I can't think of a reason to disallow it.
So while I'd allow an elf-orc crossbreed, unless their parentage could be entirely hidden, they would not find any degree of acceptance among elves, except for some moon elves.
oh i know that elfs and orcs hate him, and also drow and dwarves probably hate him, in other words anything with pointy ears. however it is funny since he embodies the virtues praised in Elven society. secondly even by elven (racist) standards he deserves some respect, after all he is a Moonflower...
lots of chances for conflict there.
But that's the thing I was trying to point out: Arilyn Moonblade, and the reaction to her, shows that even being a Moonflower is not enough to overcome the stigma of mixed blood. And that was without the orc blood in the mix.
i heard that Arilyn had some connection with her family after stoping Kymil Nemisin. Also Lamruil was discribed as pretty liberal for an elf. |
Knowledge is Power |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7969 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2014 : 01:10:24
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| My only comment is that some half-elf / half-orc halfbreed does indeed exist, any dwarf worth his stones will instantly hate it on sight. Although older, more patient dwarves might be experienced enough to spend some time sharpening their axes before getting to work. |
[/Ayrik] |
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hashimashadoo
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1150 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2014 : 17:11:36
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Tolkien orcs WERE elves, just corrupted versions of them - or at least that was one of several theories that Tolkien postulated that gained the most traction.
Statwise, I would make him a half-orc with the elven magic trait. This way, he at least has a chance to wield an elfblade of some kind. |
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Xal Valzar
Learned Scribe
Argentina
214 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2014 : 18:40:26
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quote:
Originally posted by hashimashadoo
Tolkien orcs WERE elves, just corrupted versions of them - or at least that was one of several theories that Tolkien postulated that gained the most traction.
Statwise, I would make him a half-orc with the elven magic trait. This way, he at least has a chance to wield an elfblade of some kind.
well stat wise hes like this:
+1 Strength +1 Dexterity +1 Constitution
Resistance to being charmed
Revere Sleep
Darkvision
Age: Maturity 18, no aging, max life span 160.
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Knowledge is Power |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2014 : 22:43:00
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still if the half elf part is a sun elf, no sun elf has ever wielded a moonblade....
this is according to the words of the Elaith the SErpent.... |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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Xal Valzar
Learned Scribe
Argentina
214 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2014 : 23:09:55
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quote:
Originally posted by sfdragon
still if the half elf part is a sun elf, no sun elf has ever wielded a moonblade....
this is according to the words of the Elaith the SErpent....
yeah ill have to read Evermeet to know more of his Elven part of the family. |
Knowledge is Power |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2014 : 23:20:39
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Another issue just occurred to me... So far as we know, Lamruil doesn't have any kids... Unless you're doing this in the distant future, since the 100ish years since Evermeet is not long enough for him to have grandchildren.
And Evermeet is gone, as of the 4E Realms. So even if he does lay hands on the King Blade, there's nothing for him to rule with it.
I will offer this opinion; take it or leave it, as you will: while the idea of the elf/orc crossbreed is a nifty one, and the basic backstory has some good ideas, the King Blade and Moonflower angles require a lot of work to make them fit. It may be much easier to drop those two elements as being too unworkable.
Otherwise you'll need to move the timeline forward at least a couple centuries, or do some serious re-arranging with the existing lore. It's your call whether or not to do that, obviously. |
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Xal Valzar
Learned Scribe
Argentina
214 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2014 : 23:27:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Another issue just occurred to me... So far as we know, Lamruil doesn't have any kids... Unless you're doing this in the distant future, since the 100ish years since Evermeet is not long enough for him to have grandchildren.
And Evermeet is gone, as of the 4E Realms. So even if he does lay hands on the King Blade, there's nothing for him to rule with it.
I will offer this opinion; take it or leave it, as you will: while the idea of the elf/orc crossbreed is a nifty one, and the basic backstory has some good ideas, the King Blade and Moonflower angles require a lot of work to make them fit. It may be much easier to drop those two elements as being too unworkable.
Otherwise you'll need to move the timeline forward at least a couple centuries, or do some serious re-arranging with the existing lore. It's your call whether or not to do that, obviously.
so... maybe moonblade, no Moonflower. now i have to see what other houses in evermeet can be there as his mothers side.
Thanks a bunch btw |
Knowledge is Power |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2014 : 23:45:01
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Another potential idea: rather than a moonblade, which could require some lore contortions to pull off, how about making your own suitably legendary elven sword/weapon/artifact, and using that in his backstory?
When I was writing up my Lords of Waterdeep articles, for one of them, I wanted an angle that would get a human named as elf-friend. So I had him be part of a group that recovered a lost elven artifact that I made up: a staff made of some sort of white wood, that allowed its wielder to safely use Elven High Magic when away from Evermeet. I didn't really do anything else with the staff, other than name it and come up with that ability for it -- it was simply a McGuffin, to get the character where I needed him to go. It was his ticket to Evermeet and being looked upon favorably by elves.
So coming up with something unique like that may be a better idea for your character's backstory. It has the potential to be easier to work into existing lore (assuming that's a concern for you; it isn't for everyone), and you can tie it to his story as closely or as loosely as needs be. Arilyn Moonblade's sword, for example, is the centerpiece of her backstory -- but my guy's Staff of the McGuffin was simply an element to work in and then discard, once it had achieved its purpose in the story. |
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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 03 Oct 2014 23:45:45 |
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Xal Valzar
Learned Scribe
Argentina
214 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2014 : 23:51:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Another potential idea: rather than a moonblade, which could require some lore contortions to pull off, how about making your own suitably legendary elven sword/weapon/artifact, and using that in his backstory?
When I was writing up my Lords of Waterdeep articles, for one of them, I wanted an angle that would get a human named as elf-friend. So I had him be part of a group that recovered a lost elven artifact that I made up: a staff made of some sort of white wood, that allowed its wielder to safely use Elven High Magic when away from Evermeet. I didn't really do anything else with the staff, other than name it and come up with that ability for it -- it was simply a McGuffin, to get the character where I needed him to go. It was his ticket to Evermeet and being looked upon favorably by elves.
So coming up with something unique like that may be a better idea for your character's backstory. It has the potential to be easier to work into existing lore (assuming that's a concern for you; it isn't for everyone), and you can tie it to his story as closely or as loosely as needs be. Arilyn Moonblade's sword, for example, is the centerpiece of her backstory -- but my guy's Staff of the McGuffin was simply an element to work in and then discard, once it had achieved its purpose in the story.
i guess your right, i think i should first think what is essential to his story and what isnt and then see what to do. also i ought to read up on as much lore as i can before getting into existing lore.
if im lucky this might turn into a book one day. i love to write. |
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Are Elf-Orcs possible?
Topic Locked
