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 Eilistraee and Vhaeraun are alive in 5e FR
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Irennan
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Italy
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Posted - 24 Sep 2014 :  01:13:13  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
EDIT 4: Changed the title. Updates can be found in the other edits.

Recently, I've sent a letter to Christopher Perkins (WotC lead world builder and D&D creative manager), talking about Eilistraee's role in the Realms and why I feel that she is an integral, even iconic, part of the setting. The answer that I have received was very encouraging and -since he gave me the ok- I've decided to share it.

quote:
Thank you for your letter and follow-up email. It's always nice to hear from fans who are passionate about our game worlds, the Forgotten Realms in particular.


I can't speak much with regard to the story of Eilistraee thus far, as I was not involved in its creation or evolution. However, I know that during the 3E and 4E era, there was a attempt to shrink the enormous pantheon of FR gods, as well as an effort to paint the drow as being almost universally evil to make it clear that Drizzt Do'Urden is extraordinary. (The argument is that Drizzt becomes less of an iconoclast if there are good drow everywhere.)



Our thinking has changed somewhat with 5E. We would rather embrace the complexities of FR than oversimplify it. The Sundering (as told in recent novels) will enable us to restore all of the "lost" gods of the FR pantheon, including Eilistraee. I don't know the extent to which she'll feature in upcoming stories, but in our minds she is very much alive. I hope this news allays some of your concerns.


Cheers,


Chris Perkins
D&D Story/World-Building Lead
Wizards of the Coast LLC


This is pretty awesome news, including the part about embracing the complexity of the Realms.


EDIT:
A little more news, with Ed's upcoming novel: Spellstorm (thanks to BenN for sharing those) SPOILERS -well, just a little, since this is just a side note and not relevant to the story-:

So, in the novel there's this passage -one of Elminster's thoughts about Mystra's current manifestation-:

[...]Twas no easy thing, being the goddess of magic. A different deity than the rest, in a world so steeped in the Art, a divinity that had to care more for mortals, or embrace utter tyranny. And at the same time share the Weave - the Weave that was Mystra, as well as being so much more - with other deities, or what remained of them, like Eilistraee[...]

This definitely means that Eilistraee is currently alive, since the new Mystra has to share the Weave with her. I've made some questions to Ed in his scroll, I will update this thread once I get answers.

EDIT2:

Ed has answered to my questions:

1)Does that thought refer to the ''present'' time? Yes, that refers to the present time.

2)Are Eilistraee and Vhaeraun separated again? Yes, separate again.

3)Did she manage to survive to the events in LP like some speculated (in a fashion similar to how Mystra did, for example) and emerge again after the Sundering (or has the Sundering simply brought her back)?
Mortals know only of a reappearance, post-Sundering; details to be revealed, perhaps, in the fullness of time (this now 100% confirms that Eilistraee is alive in the present time).

4)Also, in what condition is Eilistraee now, and what are she and her followers doing (and -since I'd like to edit the FR wiki page about her- is she now a demipower, or retained her status of lesser power)?
Current condition? Unknown to mortals (including power level/ranking); sorry.

5)Finally, where is Qilué's soul currently (since we know that the Cescent Blade couldn't destroy souls anymore, given that Cavatina survived it)?
As for the soul you mention: also known. My bet would be on "a voice in the Weave" (there may or may not be more on this status, if not that particular soul, in future fiction, but it's too early to say for certain).

EDIT 3 I feel that there's no need for spoilers here, since what follows has nothing to do with the novel ''Spellstorm'', and since even THO posted it without spoilers. So, here it is:

Hi again, all. Irennan, heeeere's Ed:

Communications being what they are in the Realms, with caravans bringing news and gossip and inevitable distortions as things get told and retold, most mortals can't be certain of much; they always have to trust (or not trust) retellings from afar.
However, the word spreading about the return of Eilistraee and Vhaeraun comes from excited reports of mortal worshippers personally meeting MANIFESTATIONS and AVATARS of the deities; i.e. yes, Vhaeraun and Eilistraee are both "back."
Now, as to whether they'll appear face to face with a given mortal in a given location in the Realms, that's a far different matter. The gods in general seem more "distant" post-Sundering, more "heard from" than "personally seen."

And there you have it.
The Word of Ed, so to speak.
love,
THO

EDIT 5: Some more info from Ed, about the relationship between Eilistraee&Vhaeraun, and Eilistraee's clergy.

''Irennan, yes, there can at the present time in the Realms be male clergy of Eilistraee (no changedance necessary).
SOME of their followers are still foes (humans even of the same family and/or political bent and/or organization can disagree fervently, as we're all well aware, and this applies here, too), and Eilistraee and Vhaeraun remain very different in outlook and character...but they now UNDERSTAND each other very thoroughly, and make allowances for each other's differing aims, styles, and strivings far more than they hitherto did...''

EDIT 6: Further info.

''After Flamerule 1489, Vhaeraun and Eilistraee are separate deities with the same powers and portfolios they had before 1375, but a new understanding, respect, and even friendship for each other. Some of their followers still war with each other, but the two deities do not. Thus far, Eilistraee’s teachings after the Sundering are the same as before the Sundering.''

''Vhaeraun is back to being himself, with the same portfolios. His ethos is SUBTLY changed; he is now advocating drow dwelling in the World Above (the surface world) be good citizens where doing so will enhance their chances of staying alive and being accepted, and do their evil deeds as covertly as possible. In other words, do good when and where it profits them to do so.''

EDIT 7 Spoilers for ''Death Masks'' (beige text)

I've looked up the preview of the book on Google Books and (although the preview is incomplete and kind of random, when you make a research), this is what I got from it. Somewhen in 1491 DR, Eilistraee has personally manifested, dancing *just* outside the walls of Waterdeep, seen by many Waterdhavians. Following that, many of her followers have been drawn to the City of Splendors (I guess they think of that as some kind of message from the goddess), and they are now there with the intent of building a temple to the Dark Dancer within the walls. They have tried to gain the sponsorship of some nobles or harpers (Remallia Haventree, a moon elf harper that also appear in the Tyranny of Dragons story, has given a positive answer, for example), as they intend to buy some buildings, destroy them, and then magically summons a forest and some rivers within the city, as a dancing place of worship.

EDIT 8 Some relatively recent tidbits

https://twitter.com/TheEdVerse/status/776420658783723520?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
The Darksong Knights currently are "thin on the ground at the moment, but very much active."

https://twitter.com/TheEdVerse/status/865189046170951680
The Silverhair Knights too are "Still active, still a small order. Usually pray for atonement directly to Eilistraee...and are usually personally answered." (this also means that deities can still be more directly involved with their people, if they so choose)

https://twitter.com/TheEdVerse/status/796182273288704000
The Promenade has been stealthily reclaimed, in addition to the new temple that Eilistraee is getting within Waterdeep itself. Ed also added "But can't say more yet; things are HAPPENING down there. ;}"

In the "Assault on Maerimydra" module, it is revealed that a group of followers of Eilistraee has participated to the liberation of the city, with the hope to help as many drow as possible, and to establish good relationships between the drow and the rest of the Moonsea. Assuming that Maerimydra is liberated in the adventure, the Sword Dancers of Eilistraee get to settle within the retaken city and participate to the rebuilding process.

Apparently, Karas and the Hidden also have reappeared (in the Szith Morcane Unbound module), but no explanation at all is given for that :/


To all Facebook-using FR fans, you might be interested in checking out this page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/450517575051806/

Edited by - Irennan on 18 May 2017 21:01:32

Seethyr
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Posted - 24 Sep 2014 :  01:59:29  Show Profile  Visit Seethyr's Homepage Send Seethyr a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Every day seems to bring a new reason why I'm loving the 5e Realms. Wow, that sounds REALLY encouraging!

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Baltas
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Poland
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Posted - 24 Sep 2014 :  02:00:15  Show Profile Send Baltas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
That's very, very good to know! And while I like Drizzt, it was just unwise, and plain strange, if the decision to kill Eilistraee, and doing other stuff about drow, were to make him more unique and special.
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BenN
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Posted - 24 Sep 2014 :  02:00:27  Show Profile Send BenN a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm very happy about this too. Not only the news about Eilistraee, but also the change in attitude about the drow. Drizzt is, IMHO, insufferable enough without being cast as an extra-special snowflake.

The 4e idea, that all drow except Drizzt are evil, was silly IMO.
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Irennan
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Italy
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Posted - 24 Sep 2014 :  02:03:38  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Baltas

That's very, very good to know! And while I like Drizzt, it was just unwise, and plain strange, if the decision to kill Eilistraee, and doing other stuff about drow, were to make him more unique and special.



Yeah, I'm baffled too that Drizzt was the actual reason behind removing Eilistraee.

Nonetheless, what matters is that they changed their minds and that Eilistraee (and I guess Vhaeraun too) are (likely) alive and kicking in 5e.

To all Facebook-using FR fans, you might be interested in checking out this page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/450517575051806/
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Delwa
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Posted - 24 Sep 2014 :  02:07:43  Show Profile  Visit Delwa's Homepage Send Delwa a Private Message  Reply with Quote
This is very good news. Nice to hear it from a rather official source.

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Lilianviaten
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Posted - 24 Sep 2014 :  04:37:05  Show Profile Send Lilianviaten a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by BenN

I'm very happy about this too. Not only the news about Eilistraee, but also the change in attitude about the drow. Drizzt is, IMHO, insufferable enough without being cast as an extra-special snowflake.

The 4e idea, that all drow except Drizzt are evil, was silly IMO.



Drizzt was always special. So much of the drow's popularity derives from fan response to Drizzt. Without him, the drow wouldn't be much (if at all) more popular than yuanti, illithids, or beholders. The fascination with Eilistraee's faithful came from the fascination with Drizzt.

That's not to say that Drizzt is the only compelling drow. Personally, I prefer Liriel to Drizzt, and I prefer Jarlaxle sometimes (depending on how I feel). But you can't deny the doors that Drizzt's popularity has opened. The drow were always meant to be evil, until every other gamer wanted to play Drizzt.
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Jeremy Grenemyer
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Posted - 24 Sep 2014 :  04:53:21  Show Profile Send Jeremy Grenemyer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks for sharing the contents of Perkins' reply, Irennan.

Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver).
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Irennan
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Posted - 24 Sep 2014 :  04:58:14  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Lilianviaten

quote:
Originally posted by BenN

I'm very happy about this too. Not only the news about Eilistraee, but also the change in attitude about the drow. Drizzt is, IMHO, insufferable enough without being cast as an extra-special snowflake.

The 4e idea, that all drow except Drizzt are evil, was silly IMO.



Drizzt was always special. So much of the drow's popularity derives from fan response to Drizzt. Without him, the drow wouldn't be much (if at all) more popular than yuanti, illithids, or beholders. The fascination with Eilistraee's faithful came from the fascination with Drizzt.

That's not to say that Drizzt is the only compelling drow. Personally, I prefer Liriel to Drizzt, and I prefer Jarlaxle sometimes (depending on how I feel). But you can't deny the doors that Drizzt's popularity has opened. The drow were always meant to be evil, until every other gamer wanted to play Drizzt.



Drizzt highly contributed to the popularity of drow, but Eilistraee has always been part of the Realms as envisioned by Ed, she was in his campaign even before TSR decided to publish lore about her.

Furthermore Drizzt and Eilistraee, while both good drow, are two wildly different kind of characters, with deeply different goals and flavor. They don't overlap and can exist together-

Variety (and thus E&V) has been a trait of the realmsian drow since 2e, or even before. It is what characterizes them and makes them unique to the setting, besides giving them actual depth (instead of ''I'm evil cuz evil is kewl'').

Even if you look at it from a story/logical standpoint, it really doesn't make sense and it is stupid that drow still are ''all evil, all the time, with the exception of 4-5 super individuals''.

I understand that they are brainwashed, but really: they are stripped of choice about what to do with their life, they live in fear and paranoia and endless conflict, their dogma tells them that happiness is weakness and other random nonsensical stuff. The dark elves have been living like that for millennia (with any development, any new ideas suffocated in the name of tradition), have seen so many of their major plans fail, and are now -after all this time- in the exact same situation as after the Descent.
One would think that upon considering this -and with people and even two deities that go out of their way to offer them an alternative- a considerable group (still a minority) of drow would have chosen differently, and I'm glad that WotC has decided to once again include eilistraeens and those different kinds of drow in the Realms.


@Jeremy

You're very welcome.


To all Facebook-using FR fans, you might be interested in checking out this page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/450517575051806/

Edited by - Irennan on 24 Sep 2014 05:03:34
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BenN
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Posted - 24 Sep 2014 :  05:21:21  Show Profile Send BenN a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Irennan - I agree completely (and I'd like to add my thanks also for posting the communication from WoTC).

Although I've bought & read pretty much all of RAS' novels involving Drizzt & the CoTH, my interest in Drizzt & his story are quite independent from my interest in E & her followers.

For myself, I find characters such as Cavatina (from the Lady Penitent series) much more interesting & compelling compared to Drizzt. She may be on the 'good' side, but she has plenty of nuances & flaws. I'm sad to say it (because I like RAS' work), but I find Drizzt one-dimensional in comparison.

To my eyes, E's followers are more 'heroic' than Drizzt - they're not uber-powerful, but they risk (and frequently lose) their lives by going back into the Underdark to attempt to convert more drow to the cause. Drizzt, on the other hand, only interacts with other drow when they come chasing after him & his friends, and he seems to effortlessly swat them away every time.

All the naked dancing by moonlight doesn't hurt either.
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Lilianviaten
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Posted - 25 Sep 2014 :  01:41:11  Show Profile Send Lilianviaten a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by BenN

Irennan - I agree completely (and I'd like to add my thanks also for posting the communication from WoTC).

Although I've bought & read pretty much all of RAS' novels involving Drizzt & the CoTH, my interest in Drizzt & his story are quite independent from my interest in E & her followers.

For myself, I find characters such as Cavatina (from the Lady Penitent series) much more interesting & compelling compared to Drizzt. She may be on the 'good' side, but she has plenty of nuances & flaws. I'm sad to say it (because I like RAS' work), but I find Drizzt one-dimensional in comparison.

To my eyes, E's followers are more 'heroic' than Drizzt - they're not uber-powerful, but they risk (and frequently lose) their lives by going back into the Underdark to attempt to convert more drow to the cause. Drizzt, on the other hand, only interacts with other drow when they come chasing after him & his friends, and he seems to effortlessly swat them away every time.

All the naked dancing by moonlight doesn't hurt either.



I'll have to disagree on comparative bravery. Certainly the deeds of Eilistraee's faithful are to be commended, but Drizzt isn't out drinking and dancing his time away. He's fighting equally important battle, protecting the lives of strangers.

As for power levels, you're exaggerating. Drizzt has his worst showings against other drow. Have you forgotten him being held captive in Menzoberranzan? Kimmuriel alone would have easily killed him without Jarlaxle forcing Rai Guy to heal Drizzt. (Btw, if you're looking for a Mary Sue in RAS's novels, Kimmuriel is the best candidate.)

In Night of the Hunter, the drow kidnap Drizzt and his friends rather easily again, and only quick thinking by Drizzt and Entreri prevents him from being killed on the spot. In the same novel, he thinks how difficult it is for him to battle 2 drow warriors at once, and thinks himself doomed when a 3rd drow rushes him. Drizzt has never "effortlessly swatted away" other drow.

And while I did like Cavatina's turmoil about trying to follow the dictates of her faith, she's no Erevis Cale in that regard. She's not any more emotionally complex a character than Drizzt. And she was an enormous Mary Sue. She entered Lolth's realm, killed a small army of demons, and then beheaded a GOD (Selvetarm). If Drizzt ever did anything like that, there would be 10,000 posts on Candlekeep whining about Drizzt being the worst Mary Sue in the history of literature.
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Irennan
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Italy
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Posted - 25 Sep 2014 :  01:58:50  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Lilianviaten


I'll have to disagree on comparative bravery. Certainly the deeds of Eilistraee's faithful are to be commended, but Drizzt isn't out drinking and dancing his time away. He's fighting equally important battle, protecting the lives of strangers.


I think BenN was comparing their efforts when it comes to their race. Eilistraeens not only aid and protect people in need (as their dogma says; they are not just a bunch of partying drunkards...), but they try to create harmony and acceptance among all races (including -and especially- drow, ofc), while fighting to forge a place and future for their people in a hostile world, and while risking their lives to give the drow the freedom and joy of life that they were denied, a concrete alternative to choose (in the form of someone who actually cares for them).

Drizzt doesn't really bother with his race, nonetheless he is undeniably heroic too. But hey, different characters, different motivations, different goals and characterizing traits: that's why they can easily coexhist.

To all Facebook-using FR fans, you might be interested in checking out this page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/450517575051806/
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CorellonsDevout
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Posted - 25 Sep 2014 :  02:55:58  Show Profile  Send CorellonsDevout an AOL message Send CorellonsDevout a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I love Drizzt, but he wasn't the only awesome drow character. I like stories of Vhaeraun and Eilistraee's followers as much--and sometimes more--than the Drizzt stories. I don't like that E was removed to "make way for Drizzt", but if the Sundering has indeed brought her back, great. However, being alive in their minds is not the same as being alive in novels and the campaign books.

Sweet water and light laughter
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Irennan
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Posted - 25 Sep 2014 :  03:04:23  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well, if Eilistraee is alive in their minds, then this means that she is (likely) alive in 5e and that they are (likely) going to ''allow'' her in the setting and therefore in the FRCS book.

Same holds true for Vhaeraun (or so I hope/guess).

It's definitely a huge improvement over the ''LOL, who's Eilistraee. There's only Lolth and Drizzt'' kind of stance that I pictured them having.

To all Facebook-using FR fans, you might be interested in checking out this page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/450517575051806/

Edited by - Irennan on 25 Sep 2014 03:06:26
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CorellonsDevout
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Posted - 25 Sep 2014 :  03:09:10  Show Profile  Send CorellonsDevout an AOL message Send CorellonsDevout a Private Message  Reply with Quote
True, there is reason to hope. Eilistraee is popular, so maybe WotC is listening.

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BenN
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Japan
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Posted - 25 Sep 2014 :  04:17:31  Show Profile Send BenN a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Lilianviaten:

Regarding the relative Mary Sue level of Drizzt vs. Cavatina, you've got me there! But the end result is 'Drizzt triumphs! (again), while Cavatina gets her head cut off'.

As for bravery, perhaps Cavatina was a bad example. There are other examples of relatively under-powered priestesses of E actively seeking out drow, and attempting to redeem them, often with fatal results (for themselves). As Irennan said, their motivations are quite different from Drizzt, and in terms of efforts in trying to redeem their race, they have Drizzt beaten hands-down.

Anyway, enough nit-picking from me. I'm just glad that there seems to be a good chance that E will return. More stories about her followers (and more of Drizzt too) will be welcome!
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xaeyruudh
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Posted - 25 Sep 2014 :  04:41:20  Show Profile  Visit xaeyruudh's Homepage Send xaeyruudh a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks for sending and sharing that letter Irennan.

And thank you Mr Perkins, in the event that you ever see this.

Chalk another one up to the good guys and maintaining the positive uniqueness of the Realms.
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Alystra Illianniis
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Posted - 25 Sep 2014 :  05:41:47  Show Profile  Click to see Alystra Illianniis's MSN Messenger address Send Alystra Illianniis a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Squeee! That's me fan-girl squealing, BTW. This is good news, as I've always thought Eilistraee and her followers were as important to the Realms, and as interesting, as Drizzt. I always thought the ending of the LP trilogy was just ridiculous and forced, just for the sake of making ALL drow evil again. I'm glad to see she is coming back!

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rapunzel77
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Posted - 25 Sep 2014 :  18:24:09  Show Profile Send rapunzel77 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
This is very good news. Hopefully we will get more information in novels, campaign guides, etc.
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jerrod
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Posted - 26 Sep 2014 :  06:00:38  Show Profile Send jerrod a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Life really sux for the darkmaiden's flock,but from what I have seen they don't treat males much better than lolth's clerics. They may not whip them with whip of fangs ,but they are still condescending towards them. I really don't like the dark maiden....but I love the Masked Lady. She was worthy of the male worship and I saw that in how she forced her females to accept the clergy of the masked lord as full equals. This is a development that made sense to me and one that I could get used to and love.

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BenN
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Posted - 26 Sep 2014 :  07:10:45  Show Profile Send BenN a Private Message  Reply with Quote
jerrod:

The apparent misandry of E's clergy is one of the flaws that makes them interesting for me; despite their rejection of Lolth and 'mainstream' drow society, in some respects they still remain very much drow, not only in appearance (of course) but also in attitudes. It also raises a question: is drow society dominated by females because of Lolth's influence, or because of some inate trait?

On the other hand, I enjoyed the Masked Lady storyline, including the awkwardness & tension in relations between E & V's erstwhile clergy.
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Irennan
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Posted - 26 Sep 2014 :  11:28:56  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Misandry is far too much describe Eilistraee's clergy attitude towards male, tho. When I read her lore in the sourcebooks, the only discrimination I found was the female-only priesthood (and it is because of flavor reasons: Eilistraee is intended to be a mother-goddess, with her priestesses reflecting that). Her dogma includes aiding, protecting and welcoming people from all races and gender, without discrimination of any kind, so I really don't know why the authors went that way in WotSQ/LP (to the point where Ryld feels that he has no place among them, which simply isn't true, since Eilistraee warmly welcomes not only all drow, but beings from all races).

Thye only reason I can think of is that during/after the silence of Lolth, a lot of drow joined the Eilistraee's cause, and that that many priestesses were therefore recent converts, with ''old habits'' still vivid in their minds, but still...

I like the Masked Lady as well: when Eilistraee comes back, I'd like her to keep some of traits she gained with the transformation, like allowing male priests, or choosing to use a more ''the end justifies the means'' kind of approach when the situation requires it.

To all Facebook-using FR fans, you might be interested in checking out this page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/450517575051806/

Edited by - Irennan on 26 Sep 2014 11:45:23
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Gary Dallison
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Posted - 26 Sep 2014 :  11:59:03  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I havent read the books, but the idea of eilistraee's priesthood discriminating against males (consciously or not) i think is a nice touch and adds a bit of depth to Eilistraee's followers.

Eilistraee may not agree with such treatment and has laid down rules to such in her tenets to the clergy, but i doubt she would even notice that her priests arent being nice to all drow, and since few Eilistraeeans are going to be born into Eilistraee's service (the majority of drow existing in Lolth driven society and therefore much of her clergy will at one time have been raised as Lolthites and then converted to Eilistraee) and so the discrimination may go someway to explain why Eilistraee has not made that much headway with male rebels (who tend to go to Vhaeraun or someone else entirely).

The church and the deity are always two separate entities and in the end the deities are not in total control of the situation. If the High Priest went whinging to Eilistraee that so and so wasnt being nice to some bloke then perhaps Eilistraee would do something, but in reality the High Priest might have been a former Lolthite herself and so let the treatment slide but even more the matter has to be brought to the High Priest's attention (who likely has better things to worry about) who in turn has to ask their goddess to intervene and make a statement.

if i was a god and i got bothered about such a petty argument then i might be tempted to chastise the person bothering me before i chastise the people commiting the act (no one likes a tell tale). Similarly if i was a High Priest and got bothered by such pettiness i would do the same.

Just my two cents but i tend to keep my gods well out of the affairs of mortals unless its some personal quest of theirs. There are exceptions however and that is usually the recently ascended gods who are still hanging onto their mortal lives and feel they must do things personally (Cyric, Iyachtu Xvim/Bane, Mystra 2, etc)

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Irennan
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Italy
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Posted - 26 Sep 2014 :  12:10:31  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal


The church and the deity are always two separate entities and in the end the deities are not in total control of the situation.



True, that's why I think that a considerable influx of recent (and often opportunistic) converts can easily exacerbate the dsicrimination. However, taking it to the point where a male feels like he has no place among Eilistraee's followers is too much, it defeats her purpose.
The attitude should change from one priestess to another (and it is only logic, they are not all the same...), with some of them being open while others discriminating. Generally, old time eilistraeens should be way more in tune with her ideals.

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CorellonsDevout
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USA
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Posted - 26 Sep 2014 :  16:45:26  Show Profile  Send CorellonsDevout an AOL message Send CorellonsDevout a Private Message  Reply with Quote
E didn't discriminate against males nearly as much as Lolth did. I didn't like how they weren't allowed to jointhe priestess' dancing, but they wweren't mistreated, either, and Eilistraee wanted relationships to be born of love, not dominance. Elkantar, Qilue's, lover, had a high place among the clergy, IIRC correctly from Demihuman Deities.

But I like V a lot as well, and I miss him as much as I do Eilistraee. I prefer them to be separate deities, but I would take the Masked Lady over not having either of them. Vhaeraun is an evil god, but he believes in equality among his followers, and I like that. They both deserve a place in the drow pantheon.

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Irennan
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Italy
3092 Posts

Posted - 26 Sep 2014 :  17:09:45  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout

E didn't discriminate against males nearly as much as Lolth did. I didn't like how they weren't allowed to jointhe priestess' dancing, but they wweren't mistreated, either, and Eilistraee wanted relationships to be born of love, not dominance. Elkantar, Qilue's, lover, had a high place among the clergy, IIRC correctly from Demihuman Deities.

But I like V a lot as well, and I miss him as much as I do Eilistraee. I prefer them to be separate deities, but I would take the Masked Lady over not having either of them. Vhaeraun is an evil god, but he believes in equality among his followers, and I like that. They both deserve a place in the drow pantheon.



Yeah, they definitely do, they belong to the Realms as much -if not more- than Lolth does.

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