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Tyrant
Senior Scribe
USA
586 Posts |
 Posted - 01 Mar 2013 : 15:30:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Aldrick
Tyrant -
I won't refute any of your arguments. The fact of the matter is we're engaging in speculation. The issue is that we really don't know what happened to the Enclaves.
We can get lost in the weeds of the debate (and I don't mind doing that, really; as I enjoy the discussion). However, I realized as I was reading your response that both you and I overlooked something glaringly obvious.
We overlooked the impact the Spellplague had on the enclaves, magic items, and wizards.
Do we even have any idea how it impacted arcane magic users in the immediate aftermath of the Spellplague? We know that Tam was able to adjust quickly, but what about everyone else?
Yeah, I started to consider that a while after I wrote that. I think the aftermath of the Spellplague is the much better moment to take out the Enclaves as I think pure luck would have to render some of them virtually powerless either through magic item destruction/nullification or through the Red Wizards themselves either losing their abilities or being burned out (or whatever other random effects). I believe that is the greater moment of weakness for most of them. Some could wind up stronger (beneficial spellscars, magic items permanently bonded to them and able to be used at will, random increase in magical might, etc) and these would be the ones most likely to be left standing in my opinion.
After that, I think to survive you would see one of two types of groups of Enclaves emerge. One would continue to trade on the Red Wizard name and all that it implies, the other would try to distance themselves from the policies of the past and sever any appearance of connections to Thay (we were only following orders, the Necromancers back home were the really bad guys, etc) and try to take on an appearance of legitamate merchants. I could see this group (who may even be somewhat sincere) start taking on non-Mulan apprentices to show they are serious. |
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
-The Sith Code
Teenage Sith zombies, Tulkh thought-how in the moons of Bogden had it all started? Every so often, the universe must just get bored and decide to really cut loose. -Star Wars: Red Harvest |
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GRYPHON
Senior Scribe
USA
527 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2013 : 18:36:02
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| Time of Troubles... |
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KacyCrawford
Acolyte
USA
41 Posts |
Posted - 23 Sep 2013 : 18:53:06
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| voted Abyssal Plague |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 23 Sep 2013 : 19:01:04
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quote:
Originally posted by KacyCrawford
voted Abyssal Plague
Did that one affect the Realms at all? |
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Drustan Dwnhaedan
Learned Scribe
USA
324 Posts |
Posted - 24 Sep 2013 : 08:41:35
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I couldn't decide between the Time of Troubles or the Spellplague, so I flipped a coin (wound up voting for the ToT).
My least favorite RSE was the events of the LP trilogy, which is the only RSE to have an emotional effect on me (I never would have guessed a person's depression could be triggered by a work of fiction). Perhaps I took it so badly because it directly affected my own character, Drustan; he lost his wife (he married an Eilistraeen priestess of the Promenade at the end of my gaming group's last campaign), his goddess, and many friends and relatives all at once. (Even thinking about it still makes me angry and depressed.   Sorry, Ravenheart, for not being more positive.)
Of the other RSE's, I either don't feel much of anything for, or don't know enough about them to provide a constructive opinion of them. (Heh, not that any of the opinions I've ever provided are constructive. There more like overly-emotional whining, really. Er, sorry. Again.) |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 24 Sep 2013 : 13:42:24
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Um, wait, LP is an RSE? What exactly did it shake? |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3240 Posts |
Posted - 24 Sep 2013 : 13:51:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Um, wait, LP is an RSE? What exactly did it shake?
We've discussed this elsewhere where RSE is a personal definition, as some events shook individual realms where it may not have shook others. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Drustan Dwnhaedan
Learned Scribe
USA
324 Posts |
Posted - 24 Sep 2013 : 17:44:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Um, wait, LP is an RSE? What exactly did it shake?
Actually, now that I've gotten some rest and thought about it, LP technically wasn't a RSE, just something that affected me and my character personally (and I'm apparently the only one so affected*). I was going to delete my original post, but it looks like it's too late, since people have actually commented on it. I apologize to everyone for inconveniencing them with my little rant (I'm really going to have to start thinking before I post anything).
*Okay, I realize I'm not, and apologize to my fellow Eilistraee fans (I must really like the taste of my feet, since I seem to keep putting them in my mouth).
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Edited by - Drustan Dwnhaedan on 24 Sep 2013 21:27:16 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 24 Sep 2013 : 18:37:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Um, wait, LP is an RSE? What exactly did it shake?
Well, drow exist pretty much everywhere on Toril, and the Lady Penitent trilogy saw their pantheon get dramatically culled, and some drow turn back to green elves.
It may not have rearranged the landscape, but it affected a world-spanning race, and impacted the majority of them. Seems pretty reasonable to call it an RSE, to me. |
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Ilmarinnen
Acolyte
Ukraine
29 Posts |
Posted - 25 Sep 2013 : 14:34:24
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I am still not sure if the Civil war of Thay should be classified as RSE, but it is definitely the most interesting one for me. I was surprised that it would attract so much attenion, but I was pleased to read your discussion. Most of your arguments are valid but I would like to add a bit.
Unfortunately CWoT is drastically underdescribed, partially because yers was mostly interested in activies of his main characters, but not in flow of war as a whole. The same concerning the fate of emigrants.
so... Let's look from outside
Before the war (Golden Age of Thay 1371-1374 (so short :(
Thay itself is an evil empire that constantly endangers neighbouring nations, but never managed to conqer a single one. So by iself it a medium threat.
Still it manages to creat a net of enclaves to sell Thayan export, buy what they need etc. Enclaves become a reliable source of magic items, also since they and their transportation are well protected, they become reliable bancs - to transfer money from one city to another, to send messages (that one is not afraid to be opened), even to send goods with their ships under their protection. So even those who hate Red Wizards mostly agree with usefulness of their net.
These enclaves all belong to the Guild of Foreign Trade. Thus whichever magic guild do mages in enclave belong, whatever their political opinions are, first of all they are the servants of GFT and its leader Samas Kul.
War 1375-1385
Since Samas Kul supports the zulkirat against the so-called "regent", enclaves have to support the side of zulkirat too (at least formally). They try to present the zulkirs in a good light, when asked, describing them as "heroes fighting an evil necromancer", telling about atrocities commited by Tam's army. They try to recruit mercenaries for the zulkirs' army, buy whatever needed resourses etc.
They can even kill their own necromancers to prove their loyalty to Kul, or by secret order.
Usefulness of the enclaves slightly diminshes, as economics of Thay crumbles in self-destructive conflict. They can not export as much as they did before, most of their magical production is consumed by war. Their defenses weaken too, since best crafters, war mages, warriors and war machines are summoned back to Thay.
Evacuation 1385
We know this story. Zulkirs order to prepare as many as possible ships to take as many as possible their servants and allies. They reach Alaor and Escalant, but they can not support so many refugees so tightly packed, so they slowly spread them between the enclaves. Some fall victims to living conditions aboard ships, pirates, crusaders and storms but most reach their destinations and have to call them home. At least for some time...
Emigration 1385-1479
Formally the enclaves are still united in GFT, but since they are no more mediators between the locals and Thay they have to survive on their own. Some are sacked by local. I imagine this rather than a mob with torches and pitchforks, but a decision of practical rulers to "use the opportunity". Some try to unterfere in local politics. Most still want to return home. Since most of them were on the side of zulkirs, they hate Tam, and all necromancers too. They attempt to gather forces for a crusade back into Thay. Some disenchanted in this, go into mercenary service (after all many of them are the veterans of 10 years of war) and are especially eager to fight necromancers wherever they found them.
It is interesting to note that in HL3 (Unholy, i guess) author states that zulkirs still control Escalant and Alaor islands. That's only 40 miles from the Thayan coast!!!
So we can imagine that the CWoT did never end in fact with unceasing blocade of its ports, raiding its shores and shipping. Definitely some emigrants may try to return, but I doubt that any enclave will openly declare its allegiance to regent with yet existing blockade.
*Generally, when we try to find parallels, the Thayan emigration has very much in common with the White emigration after 1920. So much nostalgie for what they've lost, and so different fates.
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1621 Posts |
Posted - 26 Sep 2013 : 01:38:09
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| Most of those weren't realm shaking events. I believe only two were, ToT and Spellplague. For other RSEs I'd count the upcoming Sundering, the Tearfall, , Dendar swallowing the Sun to end the Blue Age, and the Return of Shade/Netheril. |
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Ilmarinnen
Acolyte
Ukraine
29 Posts |
Posted - 26 Sep 2013 : 08:59:31
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| OK, then Spellplague. |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 27 Sep 2013 : 02:59:42
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I'd have to go with either ToT, or the WotSQ/LP events. My disgust with the end result of the LP trilogy notwithstanding, it DID impact an entire race (which is apparently rather widespread and numerous), it changed Toril on a very concrete and also metaphysical level (ripping the Demonweb Pits out of the Abyss, anyone?) And killed several gods and a whole bunch of mortals to boot. It also destroyed at least two cities and caused riots and sieges in others, Civil War, and a host of other problems.
The ToT has been discussed elsewhere, so I'll just say this about it- I came to the realms around the time it was written, so it was part of my original Realms experience, and I loved some of the smaller details that came out of it (the wonky magic of the Harpells, who were already doing some questionable stuff, for one.) and I liked SOME of the gods that were created out of it, and was not upset to see certain others go. |
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"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
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Alruane
Senior Scribe
USA
434 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2013 : 23:32:31
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Time of Troubles was by far the best for me!  |
" I wonder if you are destined to be forgotten. Will your life fade in the shadow of greater beings?"
~Joneleth Irenicus
"Wisdom? My dear boy, wisdom is knowing that you do not know everything. Wisdom is realizing, a wise man ALWAYS has questions. Not answers."
~Alruane |
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What was your favorite Realms-Shaking Event?
