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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
 Posted - 28 Oct 2012 : 02:40:40
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So we've learned from Elminster that the mages of Shade are weakened. But how and why? We would likely not know the answers until 5E comes out... Meanwhile, let's share some conjectures...
Mine are:
First: Telamont already revealed that his outsider body is beginning to fail him, and that he might have to use other means to prolong his existence. A lesser case can be applied to his sons. Their bodies fail to serve as a lasting conductor of heavy, powerful magic they wield almost everyday of their existence, and therefore can only cast it at a minimum, less draining level. They seek other forms of immortality, and consider lichdom a priority. But for some reason, no type of lichdom (so far) could sufficiently complement their current state, to the point that should they become liches now, they'd lose more and gain less...
Second: Telamont lost control of some of his alternate, contingency magical sources moments after the Spellplague hit Toril. Such alternate sources, rooted in unknown planes he himself discovered, and linked to the city's mythallar, were supposed to activate should the Shadow Weave shatter. But when both the W and the SW actually unraveled, the magical conductors that linked the mythallar and the alternate sources burst out of control as all the planes of existence shook and were disrupted by the SP.
Third: The simplest and probably spot-on: Shar's relatively weakened condition after her debacle with Mystra's assassination forced her to withdraw some of her exclusively given power-boost from the Shade princes and the city's priests.
Care to share yours?
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Every beginning has an end. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 28 Oct 2012 : 03:32:02
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They are so infused with shadowstuff that their prolonged absence from the Shadow plane is causing their bodies to break down?
Or maybe they don't have enough Coppertone...  |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 28 Oct 2012 : 04:22:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
They are so infused with shadowstuff that their prolonged absence from the Shadow plane is causing their bodies to break down?
Plausible. However, the Shadovar can shadow-walk in and out of the Demiplane of Shadow at will. Hence, they can do sunbathing, or rather, shadow-bathing, and charge their built-in batteries (which are their own bodies) at the DoS anytime they desire or need to. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Caolin
Senior Scribe
768 Posts |
Posted - 28 Oct 2012 : 05:06:33
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| I assumed that it was due to the Weave, and thus the Shadow Weave, collapsing. But the other ideas sound reasonable. |
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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore
USA
1446 Posts |
Posted - 28 Oct 2012 : 05:49:24
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| If the Shades are suffering from corruption of a sort it's also possible we'll see a similar sort of cancer spread through their empire and into conquered territories like Sembia. It was hinted in Elminster's FR book that there would come a day when Shar will destroy Shade and its princes utterly. If they're severed from that divine power and the shadow weave what if the empire has been ruling through fear of its power from displays in the past and is really just a shadow of its former self? Over-extended empires are usually weak ones too and there's just no way Shade has enough troops and shadovar advisers to cover all of Sembia. Too weak to hold the territory they grabbed etc. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2012 : 02:50:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Eilserus
It was hinted in Elminster's FR book that there would come a day when Shar will destroy Shade and its princes utterly.
I touched on this matter not too long ago. Telamont knew from the very start that Shar's goal is to end all things, plunge everything into the Void, and his empire is not exempt from such eventuality. So it just makes sense that he has made some contingencies to prevent, or at the very leas, delay it.
quote:
...there's just no way Shade has enough troops and shadovar advisers to cover all of Sembia. Too weak to hold the territory they grabbed etc.
The archwizards (not necessarily the princes) can rule from their city. By virtue of powerful shadow scrying devices, like Brennus' oval mirror (not sure of the name), and Telamont's "world-window," the mages of Shade can 'monitor' Sembia's leaders regularly. They don't need a large number of troops to govern Sembia; the local leaders would do it for them. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Tyrant
Senior Scribe
USA
586 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2012 : 03:29:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
The archwizards (not necessarily the princes) can rule from their city. By virtue of powerful shadow scrying devices, like Brennus' oval mirror (not sure of the name), and Telamont's "world-window," the mages of Shade can 'monitor' Sembia's leaders regularly. They don't need a large number of troops to govern Sembia; the local leaders would do it for them.
Shade has also had a century to solidify it's control of Sembia. I would think in that time they would have worked to uncover the major potential threats to their rule and either converted or destroyed them, or simply outlived them. At this point virtually every Sembian has lived their entire life under Shade rule. If they have prospered, why would they seek to rock the boat? Likewise, what does Shade gain from acting like cruel overlords to the Sembians? Sembians care about gold first and how they earn it second (if at all). I just don't see a major push coming from inside Sembia to remove the Shades.
I honestly think the "Shades have been weakened" comment feels really tacked on. I'm sure the loss of the weaves set them back, but it set everyone else back too. Given that their cities still float, some of their powerful magic obviously still works. They've had a couple thousand years head start on most of the rest of the currently living folks in the Realms to explore alternate magical techniques/sources so I would think they would bounce back rather quickly. |
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
-The Sith Code
Teenage Sith zombies, Tulkh thought-how in the moons of Bogden had it all started? Every so often, the universe must just get bored and decide to really cut loose. -Star Wars: Red Harvest |
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2012 : 03:38:30
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| I'm curious as to whether or not returning to the Shadowfell for extended periods may help sustain the prince's shadow bodies. It makes me wonder if their war with Thay isn't potentially motivated by desire for certain territories in the Thay region of the Underdark where the Shadowfell and the material plane merge and exist side by side. |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2012 : 03:48:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Asmodeus
I'm curious as to whether or not returning to the Shadowfell for extended periods may help sustain the prince's shadow bodies. It makes me wonder if their war with Thay isn't potentially motivated by desire for certain territories in the Thay region of the Underdark where the Shadowfell and the material plane merge and exist side by side.
They probably are a tad worried that Szass Tam would exploit Shadowfell to do a massive transformation of his lackeys into shades.
Perhaps if pushed too far, Szass Tam would eventually ally with the Malaugrym to repel Shade's attacks. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2012 : 03:59:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Tyrant
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
The archwizards (not necessarily the princes) can rule from their city. By virtue of powerful shadow scrying devices, like Brennus' oval mirror (not sure of the name), and Telamont's "world-window," the mages of Shade can 'monitor' Sembia's leaders regularly. They don't need a large number of troops to govern Sembia; the local leaders would do it for them.
Shade has also had a century to solidify it's control of Sembia. I would think in that time they would have worked to uncover the major potential threats to their rule and either converted or destroyed them, or simply outlived them. At this point virtually every Sembian has lived their entire life under Shade rule. If they have prospered, why would they seek to rock the boat? Likewise, what does Shade gain from acting like cruel overlords to the Sembians? Sembians care about gold first and how they earn it second (if at all). I just don't see a major push coming from inside Sembia to remove the Shades.
Excellent points, Tyrant. Even in Shade itself, the royal family are not cruel to their subjects. Strict, but never cruel.
Sembia gained more and lost less by having been annexed to Shade. For one, they now have the Shadovar's protection should any realm be stupid enough to attack and 'rob' them.
quote:
Originally posted by Tyrant
I honestly think the "Shades have been weakened" comment feels really tacked on. I'm sure the loss of the weaves set them back, but it set everyone else back too. Given that their cities still float, some of their powerful magic obviously still works. They've had a couple thousand years head start on most of the rest of the currently living folks in the Realms to explore alternate magical techniques/sources so I would think they would bounce back rather quickly.
Whether a good thing or bad, Elminster is hardly wrong with his assessment to all things magical. Hopefully, this is one of the times when he's wrong...But honestly, if he's right, all I hope and ask is that the 'weakening' part is handled very well. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2012 : 04:17:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
They are so infused with shadowstuff that their prolonged absence from the Shadow plane is causing their bodies to break down?
Plausible. However, the Shadovar can shadow-walk in and out of the Demiplane of Shadow at will. Hence, they can do sunbathing, or rather, shadow-bathing, and charge their built-in batteries (which are their own bodies) at the DoS anytime they desire or need to.
Unless they require prolonged amounts of time in Shadow to maintain themselves, and they're too busy in Faerūn to spend the time they need to spend in Shadow. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2012 : 04:19:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Tyrant
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
The archwizards (not necessarily the princes) can rule from their city. By virtue of powerful shadow scrying devices, like Brennus' oval mirror (not sure of the name), and Telamont's "world-window," the mages of Shade can 'monitor' Sembia's leaders regularly. They don't need a large number of troops to govern Sembia; the local leaders would do it for them.
Shade has also had a century to solidify it's control of Sembia. I would think in that time they would have worked to uncover the major potential threats to their rule and either converted or destroyed them, or simply outlived them. At this point virtually every Sembian has lived their entire life under Shade rule. If they have prospered, why would they seek to rock the boat? Likewise, what does Shade gain from acting like cruel overlords to the Sembians? Sembians care about gold first and how they earn it second (if at all). I just don't see a major push coming from inside Sembia to remove the Shades.
Of course, a century is also plenty of time for people to get thoroughly sick of the Shades, and for minor rumblings of discontent to blossom into widespread near-rebellion. |
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2012 : 04:20:33
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| I wonder if the growing population of shadar-kai, which is replacing Shade's shadowborn human population, has something to do with their weakening state. Shadar-kai have the potential to be among the deadliest races in the realms- one of their independent cities survives primarily by raiding the drow for supplies- but they lack discipline, are prone to emotional extremes, and take unnecessary risks. Not exactly the force you want to build and empire with. |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2012 : 04:39:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
They are so infused with shadowstuff that their prolonged absence from the Shadow plane is causing their bodies to break down?
Plausible. However, the Shadovar can shadow-walk in and out of the Demiplane of Shadow at will. Hence, they can do sunbathing, or rather, shadow-bathing, and charge their built-in batteries (which are their own bodies) at the DoS anytime they desire or need to.
Unless they require prolonged amounts of time in Shadow to maintain themselves, and they're too busy in Faerūn to spend the time they need to spend in Shadow.
Well, they can take turns. Say, a dozen of them in every month.
Whatever it is in Shadowfell that boosts their shadow-infused bodies, I suppose they can also import to their city, and contain it for a long period of time.
However, I think it's more of what the Shadowfell lacks---the source of too much light: the sun. Yes, there's a semblance of the sun in Shadowfell, but it's very muted. And yes, Thultanthar is suffused with shadows that even Aumaunator's sun could not penetrate. But maintaining such perpetual cloak of shadows could somehow tax even the most powerful of them. Not quickly, but in the long run... |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2012 : 04:42:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Tyrant
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
The archwizards (not necessarily the princes) can rule from their city. By virtue of powerful shadow scrying devices, like Brennus' oval mirror (not sure of the name), and Telamont's "world-window," the mages of Shade can 'monitor' Sembia's leaders regularly. They don't need a large number of troops to govern Sembia; the local leaders would do it for them.
Shade has also had a century to solidify it's control of Sembia. I would think in that time they would have worked to uncover the major potential threats to their rule and either converted or destroyed them, or simply outlived them. At this point virtually every Sembian has lived their entire life under Shade rule. If they have prospered, why would they seek to rock the boat? Likewise, what does Shade gain from acting like cruel overlords to the Sembians? Sembians care about gold first and how they earn it second (if at all). I just don't see a major push coming from inside Sembia to remove the Shades.
Of course, a century is also plenty of time for people to get thoroughly sick of the Shades, and for minor rumblings of discontent to blossom into widespread near-rebellion.
Possible. However, we don't see nor hear of any evidence of such 'discontent.' So far. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2012 : 04:48:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
They are so infused with shadowstuff that their prolonged absence from the Shadow plane is causing their bodies to break down?
Plausible. However, the Shadovar can shadow-walk in and out of the Demiplane of Shadow at will. Hence, they can do sunbathing, or rather, shadow-bathing, and charge their built-in batteries (which are their own bodies) at the DoS anytime they desire or need to.
Unless they require prolonged amounts of time in Shadow to maintain themselves, and they're too busy in Faerūn to spend the time they need to spend in Shadow.
Well, they can take turns. Say, a dozen of them in every month.
Whatever it is in Shadowfell that boosts their shadow-infused bodies, I suppose they can also import to their city, and contain it for a long period of time.
However, I think it's more of what the Shadowfell lacks---the source of too much light: the sun. Yes, there's a semblance of the sun in Shadowfell, but it's very muted. And yes, Thultanthar is suffused with shadows that even Aumaunator's sun could not penetrate. But maintaining such perpetual cloak of shadows could somehow tax even the most powerful of them. Not quickly, but in the long run...
If this is the case, perhaps they should concentrate more on expansion into the Underdark.
And as I mentioned, Ikemmu, the Gloaming City, is a region of the Underdark not far from Thay that exists in the Shadowfell and in Faerun simultaneously- currently held by independent shadar-kai. Would be a prime target to function as a retreat for the princes. |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
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http://theroleplayersgazebo.yuku.com/directory#.Ub4hvvlJOAY |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2012 : 05:00:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Asmodeus
I wonder if the growing population of shadar-kai, which is replacing Shade's shadowborn human population, has something to do with their weakening state. Shadar-kai have the potential to be among the deadliest races in the realms- one of their independent cities survives primarily by raiding the drow for supplies- but they lack discipline, are prone to emotional extremes, and take unnecessary risks. Not exactly the force you want to build and empire with.
Almost all the other races outnumber the shades. The process of being a shade is nearly as difficult and time-consuming as lichdom, so few are being subjected to it.
The Netherese shadar-kai are trained well and treated well among the Shadovar's ranks. There's hardly anything they could complain about. Even if they try to revolt, I don't think it'd be that great a challenge to the princes. They monitor their subjects as diligently as they do their enemies, so any plan of uprising can be dealt with before it even begins to blossom. |
Every beginning has an end. |
Edited by - Dennis on 30 Oct 2012 05:01:26 |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2012 : 05:05:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Asmodeus
If this is the case, perhaps they should concentrate more on expansion into the Underdark.
And as I mentioned, Ikemmu, the Gloaming City, is a region of the Underdark not far from Thay that exists in the Shadowfell and in Faerun simultaneously- currently held by independent shadar-kai. Would be a prime target to function as a retreat for the princes.
So far, Telamont shows not that much interest in the Underdark. He rarely sends agents there. Maybe he and Skulls of Skullport had reached to some 'agreement.' |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Tyrant
Senior Scribe
USA
586 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2012 : 05:51:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Tyrant
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
The archwizards (not necessarily the princes) can rule from their city. By virtue of powerful shadow scrying devices, like Brennus' oval mirror (not sure of the name), and Telamont's "world-window," the mages of Shade can 'monitor' Sembia's leaders regularly. They don't need a large number of troops to govern Sembia; the local leaders would do it for them.
Shade has also had a century to solidify it's control of Sembia. I would think in that time they would have worked to uncover the major potential threats to their rule and either converted or destroyed them, or simply outlived them. At this point virtually every Sembian has lived their entire life under Shade rule. If they have prospered, why would they seek to rock the boat? Likewise, what does Shade gain from acting like cruel overlords to the Sembians? Sembians care about gold first and how they earn it second (if at all). I just don't see a major push coming from inside Sembia to remove the Shades.
Of course, a century is also plenty of time for people to get thoroughly sick of the Shades, and for minor rumblings of discontent to blossom into widespread near-rebellion.
I agree that is a possibility, but I don't see a reason for why it would happen. What has Shade done overtly that the average Sembian would find bothersome enough to revolt over? I doubt their part in the civil war or Shadowstorm is widely known to anyone beyond the direct participants and they have no reason to spread such knowledge. They gain nothing by being cruel overlords or leveraging extreme taxes. What does it matter to the average Sembian if they are ruled by merchant-lords or Shades (or if the merchant-lords are themselves ruled by the Shades)? How does it impact them in a negative way? Virtually no one alive remembers "the good old days" where only home grown greed ruled the day in Sembia and not outsider greed.
I'm not saying the possibility isn't there, just that I don't see it coming about. PG.176 of the FRCG at the bottom says that major resistance lasted maybe a decade before the Shades dealt with it, one way or another, and that the Sembians live largely peaceful and profitable lives. That page also mentions that the Shades have grown dependent on Sembia for their economy so the Shades aren't going to do anything to jeprodize that. |
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
-The Sith Code
Teenage Sith zombies, Tulkh thought-how in the moons of Bogden had it all started? Every so often, the universe must just get bored and decide to really cut loose. -Star Wars: Red Harvest |
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2012 : 07:41:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Asmodeus
I wonder if the growing population of shadar-kai, which is replacing Shade's shadowborn human population, has something to do with their weakening state. Shadar-kai have the potential to be among the deadliest races in the realms- one of their independent cities survives primarily by raiding the drow for supplies- but they lack discipline, are prone to emotional extremes, and take unnecessary risks. Not exactly the force you want to build and empire with.
Almost all the other races outnumber the shades. The process of being a shade is nearly as difficult and time-consuming as lichdom, so few are being subjected to it.
The Netherese shadar-kai are trained well and treated well among the Shadovar's ranks. There's hardly anything they could complain about. Even if they try to revolt, I don't think it'd be that great a challenge to the princes. They monitor their subjects as diligently as they do their enemies, so any plan of uprising can be dealt with before it even begins to blossom.
I'm not suggesting the shadar-kai would rebel- most of the ones prone to that are more likely to simply leave Shade controlled lands to independent shadar-kai enclaves. But shadar-kai are afflicted with a racial depression and tend towards extreme actions. Well trained or not, that attitude doesn't lend well towards military discipline. |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
The Roleplayer's Gazebo;
http://theroleplayersgazebo.yuku.com/directory#.Ub4hvvlJOAY |
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MrHedgehog
Senior Scribe
688 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2012 : 08:10:40
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| Maybe they need to break down so they can be viable and defeatable villains. How could a PC possibly defeat Telamont Tanthul? Their level of power seemed silly and over the top from the get-go. I am not keen on the idea of their being mortals with character levels exceeding 30. Off with their heads! |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2012 : 08:11:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Asmodeus
I'm not suggesting the shadar-kai would rebel- most of the ones prone to that are more likely to simply leave Shade controlled lands to independent shadar-kai enclaves. But shadar-kai are afflicted with a racial depression and tend towards extreme actions. Well trained or not, that attitude doesn't lend well towards military discipline.
I still fail to see how the shadar-kai could cause the wholesale weakening of Shade's mages. They don't even constitute half of Shade's army.
I'm thinking the cause is rather magical in nature. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2012 : 08:18:22
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quote:
Originally posted by MrHedgehog
Maybe they need to break down so they can be viable and defeatable villains. How could a PC possibly defeat Telamont Tanthul? Their level of power seemed silly and over the top from the get-go. I am not keen on the idea of their being mortals with character levels exceeding 30. Off with their heads!
I didn't hear anyone complain about Larloch being too powerful and "un-defeatable"? So why can't Telamont be treated the same?
Seriously, though, one need NOT face Telamont to try to bring Shade down. There are many less risky, subtle ways to do that. Everyone should learn from the Chosen's desperation-driven mistake. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2012 : 09:45:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Tyrant
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Tyrant
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
The archwizards (not necessarily the princes) can rule from their city. By virtue of powerful shadow scrying devices, like Brennus' oval mirror (not sure of the name), and Telamont's "world-window," the mages of Shade can 'monitor' Sembia's leaders regularly. They don't need a large number of troops to govern Sembia; the local leaders would do it for them.
Shade has also had a century to solidify it's control of Sembia. I would think in that time they would have worked to uncover the major potential threats to their rule and either converted or destroyed them, or simply outlived them. At this point virtually every Sembian has lived their entire life under Shade rule. If they have prospered, why would they seek to rock the boat? Likewise, what does Shade gain from acting like cruel overlords to the Sembians? Sembians care about gold first and how they earn it second (if at all). I just don't see a major push coming from inside Sembia to remove the Shades.
Of course, a century is also plenty of time for people to get thoroughly sick of the Shades, and for minor rumblings of discontent to blossom into widespread near-rebellion.
I agree that is a possibility, but I don't see a reason for why it would happen. What has Shade done overtly that the average Sembian would find bothersome enough to revolt over? I doubt their part in the civil war or Shadowstorm is widely known to anyone beyond the direct participants and they have no reason to spread such knowledge. They gain nothing by being cruel overlords or leveraging extreme taxes. What does it matter to the average Sembian if they are ruled by merchant-lords or Shades (or if the merchant-lords are themselves ruled by the Shades)? How does it impact them in a negative way? Virtually no one alive remembers "the good old days" where only home grown greed ruled the day in Sembia and not outsider greed.
I'm not saying the possibility isn't there, just that I don't see it coming about. PG.176 of the FRCG at the bottom says that major resistance lasted maybe a decade before the Shades dealt with it, one way or another, and that the Sembians live largely peaceful and profitable lives. That page also mentions that the Shades have grown dependent on Sembia for their economy so the Shades aren't going to do anything to jeprodize that.
All it would take is people wanting to rule themselves and to keep their money at home. |
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2012 : 10:07:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by MrHedgehog
Maybe they need to break down so they can be viable and defeatable villains. How could a PC possibly defeat Telamont Tanthul? Their level of power seemed silly and over the top from the get-go. I am not keen on the idea of their being mortals with character levels exceeding 30. Off with their heads!
I didn't hear anyone complain about Larloch being too powerful and "un-defeatable"? So why can't Telamont be treated the same?
Seriously, though, one need NOT face Telamont to try to bring Shade down. There are many less risky, subtle ways to do that. Everyone should learn from the Chosen's desperation-driven mistake.
Laroch's off hiding in a crypt minding his own business. Telamont is actively ruling a hostile nation. |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2012 : 14:30:34
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Other possibilities
1. Their old enemies from Shadow followed them, in RotA the city was in a hurry to planeshift to Toril
2. Shar is destoying them after what happened in Twilight War |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2012 : 22:10:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Quale
Shar is destoying them after what happened in Twilight War.
I like this. Not because I want to see them destroyed, but because I want to see them completely independent from Shar, and to have my theory on Telamont's alternate source of shadow magic proven. Said theory was inspired by Vhostym's Weave Tap, the very first known conduit of magic that utilized both energies from the Weave and the Shadow Weave. Maybe a Psionic-Shadow Weave? Shadows strengthened and made more corporeal by the Invisible Art?
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
They are so infused with shadowstuff that their prolonged absence from the Shadow plane is causing their bodies to break down?
Plausible. However, the Shadovar can shadow-walk in and out of the Demiplane of Shadow at will. Hence, they can do sunbathing, or rather, shadow-bathing, and charge their built-in batteries (which are their own bodies) at the DoS anytime they desire or need to.
Unless they require prolonged amounts of time in Shadow to maintain themselves, and they're too busy in Faerūn to spend the time they need to spend in Shadow.
Well, they can take turns. Say, a dozen of them in every month.
Whatever it is in Shadowfell that boosts their shadow-infused bodies, I suppose they can also import to their city, and contain it for a long period of time.
However, I think it's more of what the Shadowfell lacks---the source of too much light: the sun. Yes, there's a semblance of the sun in Shadowfell, but it's very muted. And yes, Thultanthar is suffused with shadows that even Aumaunator's sun could not penetrate. But maintaining such perpetual cloak of shadows could somehow tax even the most powerful of them. Not quickly, but in the long run...
Firestorm's quote from the sourcebook reminded me something that made me change my comment above...Telamont's outsider shadowstuff body is now failing. It is the nature of the shadowstuff then that would ultimately render the Shadovar weak. Shadowstuff is not of the Material Plane, and so it cannot hope to exist forever in the Prime. The Shadovar either have to planeshift back to the Plane of Shadow for a very long period of time, or suffer the deterioration of their bodies in Toril. |
Every beginning has an end. |
Edited by - Dennis on 04 Nov 2012 05:16:33 |
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Tarlyn
Learned Scribe
USA
315 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2012 : 10:27:44
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| IMO it is important that the Sembia situation is handled thoughtfully. Unlike, the parts of returned Abeir which were just haphazardly thrown into the setting and thus can be haphazardly returned to Abeir. The Sembia situation actually evolved through good story telling. There are reasons why it is advantageous for Sembia to maintain strong ties to Shade, one would be the magical might the Shadovar provide to protect against / intimidate bordering nations like Cormyr, the Dalelands and Cormanthyr. |
Tarlyn Embersun |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2012 : 15:28:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Tarlyn
IMO it is important that the Sembia situation is handled thoughtfully. Unlike, the parts of returned Abeir which were just haphazardly thrown into the setting and thus can be haphazardly returned to Abeir. The Sembia situation actually evolved through good story telling. There are reasons why it is advantageous for Sembia to maintain strong ties to Shade, one would be the magical might the Shadovar provide to protect against / intimidate bordering nations like Cormyr, the Dalelands and Cormanthyr.
Why does Sembia need protection? For much of its existence, it's been the aggressor in conflicts with those nation-states... |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2012 : 16:03:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Tarlyn
IMO it is important that the Sembia situation is handled thoughtfully. Unlike, the parts of returned Abeir which were just haphazardly thrown into the setting and thus can be haphazardly returned to Abeir. The Sembia situation actually evolved through good story telling. There are reasons why it is advantageous for Sembia to maintain strong ties to Shade, one would be the magical might the Shadovar provide to protect against / intimidate bordering nations like Cormyr, the Dalelands and Cormanthyr.
Why does Sembia need protection? For much of its existence, it's been the aggressor in conflicts with those nation-states...
Indeed. And that's a trend that pretty much goes back to the 2e boxed set, which made it clear that Sembia had long had eyes on exploiting neighbouring realms. |
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Tarlyn
Learned Scribe
USA
315 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2012 : 16:21:14
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| Sembia's army in the past was hired mercenaries, not a volunteer force. Why would the Sembian merchant princes want to pay for that again? Not mention need to manage it. Unless it is significantly cheaper than the Shades taxes. Also, so long as the shades continue to promote their trading, why would the Sembians rebel? I agree that sembia typically doesn't have good relations with the countries i listed, so why not keep a strong ally? Shade also has poor relations with those countries. Sembia tends to be human centric, so does Netheril. Again, the two countries work well together if they split i would like to see a good reason given for it. |
Tarlyn Embersun |
Edited by - Tarlyn on 31 Oct 2012 16:56:10 |
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Conjectures On Their Weakened State
