Candlekeep Forum
Candlekeep Forum
Home | Profile | Register | Active Topics | Active Polls | Members | Private Messages | Search | FAQ
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

 All Forums
 Forgotten Realms Journals
 General Forgotten Realms Chat
 The Most Influential Netherese Archwizard
 New Topic  New Poll New Poll
 Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Previous Page | Next Page
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic
Page: of 8

Lord Karsus
Great Reader

USA
2879 Posts

Posted - 05 May 2012 :  17:26:01  Show Profile  Send Lord Karsus an AOL message Send Lord Karsus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Xar Zarath

If so then the Spellplague which not only affected the Weave but also the Shadow Weave should have brought down Shade and Sakkors too right??

-Yes, but the whole concept of the Spellplague is that it's chaotic and does what it wants, so there's author/designer fiat that basically gives it excuse to not behave in the way we would figure it would, and do things that we would assume it should.

(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)

Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium
Go to Top of Page

Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
29704 Posts

Posted - 05 May 2012 :  18:18:37  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis

quote:
Originally posted by Xar Zarath

If so then the Spellplague which not only affected the Weave but also the Shadow Weave should have brought down Shade and Sakkors too right??


Telamont was witness to the fall of Netheril when Mystryl killed herself, and understood quite well how dependent their mythallars were to the Weave.


Actually, that depends on which version of Shade's history you accept. We've got lore saying Shade popped out the day before, and were totally absent the day of the Folly. We've got lore saying Shade stepped out the same day, but before the Folly. And we've got lore saying Shade sidestepped into Shadow during the Folly, as a way to avoid destruction.

I think the last is the least likely; if magic failed, how'd they get away?

I prefer the lore saying they just happened to get clear the day before.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Editor and scribe for The Candlekeep Compendium

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
Go to Top of Page

Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
29704 Posts

Posted - 05 May 2012 :  18:23:28  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus

quote:
Originally posted by Xar Zarath

If so then the Spellplague which not only affected the Weave but also the Shadow Weave should have brought down Shade and Sakkors too right??

-Yes, but the whole concept of the Spellplague is that it's chaotic and does what it wants, so there's author/designer fiat that basically gives it excuse to not behave in the way we would figure it would, and do things that we would assume it should.



While I do agree, I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that one of the first priorities of the Shades would be to alter their mythallar to not be wholly dependent on the Weave. Actually, I think they'd alter them to not be wholly dependent on either Weave.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Editor and scribe for The Candlekeep Compendium

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
Go to Top of Page

Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
13245 Posts

Posted - 05 May 2012 :  21:00:10  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Interesting.

I had theorized that pools/moonwells are really magical conduits to various planes, that can be used to draw both energy and entities through, if one knows the right 'key'.

The basic concept was that they can be realigned to a different plane (or divine realm), so the energy type derived from them can be changed.

If such things exist - variable power-source conduits - then it should also be theoretically possible to build a device that utilizes different power sources. The switch could be manual, or even automatic (in fail-safe mode) - I think the Netherese would certainly look into something like that after Karsus' Folly.

This ties into some of my thoughts on 'spirits' - that they can use different types of energy when they have to (but most develop a preference, some to more esoteric forms like emotional energy).

But anyway... yeah... I would say the Netherese are pretty damn clever, and would be into building redundant-systems for everything (or have back-up plans, etc).

I just had an epiphany about the Netherese - Evolution. If survival of the fittest rings true even in a fantasy setting, then the Shades should have taken all the lessons learned by the ancient Netherese and be that much smarter. They learned humility - something I don't think the Imaskari ever learned... and hubris can easily lead to downfall.

On the other hand, the Halruaans should have been even greater, not having fled into the Shadowfel like rats fleeing a sinking ship.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 05 May 2012 21:00:56
Go to Top of Page

Dennis
Great Reader

9933 Posts

Posted - 06 May 2012 :  01:21:17  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Dennis

quote:
Originally posted by Xar Zarath

If so then the Spellplague which not only affected the Weave but also the Shadow Weave should have brought down Shade and Sakkors too right??


Telamont was witness to the fall of Netheril when Mystryl killed herself, and understood quite well how dependent their mythallars were to the Weave.


Actually, that depends on which version of Shade's history you accept. We've got lore saying Shade popped out the day before, and were totally absent the day of the Folly. We've got lore saying Shade stepped out the same day, but before the Folly. And we've got lore saying Shade sidestepped into Shadow during the Folly, as a way to avoid destruction.

I think the last is the least likely; if magic failed, how'd they get away?

I prefer the lore saying they just happened to get clear the day before.


I suppose, in this context, it matters less which version is the truth. The fact remains: Telamont knew the reason why Netheril fell. As I postulated about his mad attempt at conquering the entire world, I believe 'security' is his first priority. It's foolish to take over a realm if your own city is always on the danger of falling by being too dependent on either of the two Weaves. Thus, he must have had found out already how to keep his city afloat in the event the Weaves (which are as fickle as their two caretaker goddesses) unravel.

Every beginning has an end.
Go to Top of Page

Dennis
Great Reader

9933 Posts

Posted - 06 May 2012 :  01:23:08  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus

quote:
Originally posted by Xar Zarath

If so then the Spellplague which not only affected the Weave but also the Shadow Weave should have brought down Shade and Sakkors too right??

-Yes, but the whole concept of the Spellplague is that it's chaotic and does what it wants, so there's author/designer fiat that basically gives it excuse to not behave in the way we would figure it would, and do things that we would assume it should.


While I do agree, I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that one of the first priorities of the Shades would be to alter their mythallar to not be wholly dependent on the Weave. Actually, I think they'd alter them to not be wholly dependent on either Weave.


Agreed, absolutely. More or less what I mentioned above.

Every beginning has an end.
Go to Top of Page

Xar Zarath
Senior Scribe

Malaysia
552 Posts

Posted - 06 May 2012 :  10:02:48  Show Profile Send Xar Zarath a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Then that would mean the mythallar drwas energy from either, none or somewhere else? I was under the impression that mythallars drew power from either the Weave or its Shadow counterpart. A mythallar does funnel raw magical energy right?

Everything ends where it begins. Period.



Go to Top of Page

Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
13245 Posts

Posted - 06 May 2012 :  15:14:12  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I don't think they'd invest in a third source of energy; as Netherese they mastered Arcane, and as Shades they have easy access to Umbral energy. I would think it worked as I said above, with it being able to switch to the alternate source if something happens (probably automatically). Some homes can do this - if the electricity goes out they switch themselves to generator-power.

Taking the electricity analog one step further, there is DC - direct current - and AC - alternating current. Using a single source of energy to power an item or sustained effect is like DC - there is but a single path energy flows down. But it should be theoretically possible to build something that could flip-fiop; that it would use 'phase' to pulse between two energy types, so rapidly there is no discernible loss of power.

So instead of working like this -
Arcaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaane........

Or like this -
Umbraaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaal........

It would work like this -
Arcane-umbral-Arcane-Umbral-Arcane-umbral-Arcane-Umbral-Arcane....

If one source gets 'switched off', the cities should be able to remain aloft, but other abilities of the mythalar (like acting as a spellpool) would be lost (they'd be running on 1/2 power, so like Scotty in Star Trek, the energy would be diverted to the highest-priority system.

Energy is just energy - they make eco-friendly cars now that use duel-fuel systems, and the military have some vehicles that can run on just about anything (in fact, after just a tiny bit of research, I discovered any diesel engine can be converted to do this).

On the other hand - dependent upon which source you follow - The Shadoweave is co-dependent upon the Weave; if the weave falls, so too should the Shadoweave (which is what happened, I think, but the lore is so fuzzy and contradicting who knows). That means making a duel-energy Mythalar that runs on Arcane/Umbral energies mixed would be kinda counter-intuitive. You can say the Netherese didn't understand the relationship of the two, but I doubt that very much.

So we are once again back to trying to figure-out what other energy the Netherese may have co-opted for their mythalar.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 06 May 2012 15:19:03
Go to Top of Page

Xar Zarath
Senior Scribe

Malaysia
552 Posts

Posted - 07 May 2012 :  05:51:06  Show Profile Send Xar Zarath a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The Shadow weave fell because Shar fused it with the negative energy plane creating the Shadowfell if i am not mistaken, but she lost control of it as a result. Maybe their mythallar ran on the greatest of power there is: plot armor energy!

Though jokes aside, i think they may draw energy from both fallen Weave's. We know they are not destroyed simply altered differently, so who knows...?

Everything ends where it begins. Period.



Go to Top of Page

Lord Karsus
Great Reader

USA
2879 Posts

Posted - 07 May 2012 :  17:09:39  Show Profile  Send Lord Karsus an AOL message Send Lord Karsus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
-Did anything ever reverse the Weave + Shadow Weave = negative reaction that was established in Return of the Archwizards? I can't recall anything in the rules saying that that isn't how it works (although, basically everywhere else, this isn't how it works).

(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)

Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium
Go to Top of Page

Xar Zarath
Senior Scribe

Malaysia
552 Posts

Posted - 08 May 2012 :  05:47:59  Show Profile Send Xar Zarath a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Exactly, if some of us hypothesize that Shade's mythallar draws energy from the shadow weave while having the weave as backup, would it not explode. As we know from ROTA when pure shadow collides with pure weave, like a simple magic missile spell, it causes a rift in space.

Moreover in ROTA silver fire struck Telamont, how come he did not warp or some such? It surely would have destroyed his spell shields...

Everything ends where it begins. Period.



Go to Top of Page

Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
13245 Posts

Posted - 08 May 2012 :  17:31:52  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The way the two interact is solely dependent upon the story, and it varies from author to author (sometimes dramatically). One of the worst continuity nightmares in FR history, IMHO.

Mixing the two energies would probably produce disastrous effects, which is why I suggested an alternating current methodology.

I was trying to find some references to back-up a point I was going to make, but the research lead me to some startling conclusions, and I no longer care about what I was trying to prove. Reading the three super-modules that came out at the tail-end of 3e - in hindsight - is proving to be VERY interesting.

For instance, Shar is TWICE referred to as a Primordial.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

Go to Top of Page

Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
29704 Posts

Posted - 08 May 2012 :  17:55:30  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

The way the two interact is solely dependent upon the story, and it varies from author to author (sometimes dramatically). One of the worst continuity nightmares in FR history, IMHO.

Mixing the two energies would probably produce disastrous effects, which is why I suggested an alternating current methodology.

I was trying to find some references to back-up a point I was going to make, but the research lead me to some startling conclusions, and I no longer care about what I was trying to prove. Reading the three super-modules that came out at the tail-end of 3e - in hindsight - is proving to be VERY interesting.

For instance, Shar is TWICE referred to as a Primordial.



Does it refer to her as a Primordial, or does it use "primordial" as an abjective?

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Editor and scribe for The Candlekeep Compendium

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
Go to Top of Page

Veritas
Learned Scribe

195 Posts

Posted - 08 May 2012 :  18:13:20  Show Profile  Visit Veritas's Homepage Send Veritas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm confident that archwizard behind "Charm Person" was the most influential ;)
Go to Top of Page

Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
13245 Posts

Posted - 08 May 2012 :  18:36:26  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

Does it refer to her as a Primordial, or does it use "primordial" as an abjective?
The first time it is used it is can be looked-at either way -

"... the primordial mistress of darkness, Shar..."

the second usage calls her a deity as well, so its likely an adjective (although there is still some wiggle-room).

"...the work of the primordial deity of the night, Shar"

Since they were already full-swing into the late development of 4e, I really doubt that was accidental - a LOT of what is in those modules set us up for 4e.

The weird part is, it goes into details about how Shar's plan will ultimately fail, which makes her a little nuts (its in various prophesies), and she is actively trying to obtain as much of those prophesies (from Auguthra and Windsong Tower) to see if there is some way to avoid that outcome.

The modules also go on - in a meta-gaming sidebar - to say how all of the lore presented therein assumes the adventurers are successful, for that will be the canon outcome. If this is true (and they didn't change their minds), then what happened was the preferred outcome by those on the side of Mystra (including other deities).

Very convoluted, but its there. I wonder if they planned on making the Spellplague temporary all along? Was a 5e reboot laid-out along with the 4e plans? They did something similar with Gh: First they had The Greyhawk Wars, and then a few years later released From the Ashes, which un-did much of what Wars did to the setting.

And strangely, Aumanator is heavily involved with Mystra's 'return' (or eventual victory), and there he is, making a come-back at the very end of 3e in the GHotR, which was an introduction to 4e as well. Could it also be coincidence that both of them were considered the 'guardians of time'?

There something there that I am not quite putting my finger on. There is a LOT of interplay with Arcane magic/life/Radiance (and even a chalice!)

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 08 May 2012 18:39:38
Go to Top of Page

Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
29704 Posts

Posted - 08 May 2012 :  19:14:00  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

Does it refer to her as a Primordial, or does it use "primordial" as an abjective?
The first time it is used it is can be looked-at either way -

"... the primordial mistress of darkness, Shar..."

the second usage calls her a deity as well, so its likely an adjective (although there is still some wiggle-room).

"...the work of the primordial deity of the night, Shar"

Since they were already full-swing into the late development of 4e, I really doubt that was accidental - a LOT of what is in those modules set us up for 4e.

The weird part is, it goes into details about how Shar's plan will ultimately fail, which makes her a little nuts (its in various prophesies), and she is actively trying to obtain as much of those prophesies (from Auguthra and Windsong Tower) to see if there is some way to avoid that outcome.

The modules also go on - in a meta-gaming sidebar - to say how all of the lore presented therein assumes the adventurers are successful, for that will be the canon outcome. If this is true (and they didn't change their minds), then what happened was the preferred outcome by those on the side of Mystra (including other deities).

Very convoluted, but its there. I wonder if they planned on making the Spellplague temporary all along? Was a 5e reboot laid-out along with the 4e plans? They did something similar with Gh: First they had The Greyhawk Wars, and then a few years later released From the Ashes, which un-did much of what Wars did to the setting.

And strangely, Aumanator is heavily involved with Mystra's 'return' (or eventual victory), and there he is, making a come-back at the very end of 3e in the GHotR, which was an introduction to 4e as well. Could it also be coincidence that both of them were considered the 'guardians of time'?

There something there that I am not quite putting my finger on. There is a LOT of interplay with Arcane magic/life/Radiance (and even a chalice!)



That seems to me that they were just using it as an adjective, then, and not in the 4E FR sense of the word. Shar very much fits the word in its adjective sense, since she and Selūne predate pretty much everything else in Realmspace.

I did note, as you did, that the "supermodules" seemed to be setting Shar up for a fall, which subsequent lore did not run with. I even started a thread talking about it, at the time, theorizing that Shar was tied to the Shadow Weave the way Mystra was tied to the Weave, and that the loss of the Weave would take out the Shadow Weave, weaking Shar in the process. That, to me, would have explained how "the Dark Diviners of Windsong Tower deduced a coming weakness of Shar".

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Editor and scribe for The Candlekeep Compendium

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
Go to Top of Page

sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
5117 Posts

Posted - 08 May 2012 :  20:53:25  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Xar Zarath

Exactly, if some of us hypothesize that Shade's mythallar draws energy from the shadow weave while having the weave as backup, would it not explode. As we know from ROTA when pure shadow collides with pure weave, like a simple magic missile spell, it causes a rift in space.

Moreover in ROTA silver fire struck Telamont, how come he did not warp or some such? It surely would have destroyed his spell shields...



Yeah, but didn't that elf merge with the mythal over the big elven community just off the desert (wow, my realms speak is getting weak from disuse), and he was using the shadow weave.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
Go to Top of Page

Lord Karsus
Great Reader

USA
2879 Posts

Posted - 08 May 2012 :  21:03:15  Show Profile  Send Lord Karsus an AOL message Send Lord Karsus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

Yeah, but didn't that elf merge with the mythal over the big elven community just off the desert (wow, my realms speak is getting weak from disuse), and he was using the shadow weave.


-Translation: Didn't Galaeron use the Shadow Weave when helping the High Magi repair Evereska's mythal, making it a Shadow Weave hybrid?

-Answer: Yes.

(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)

Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium
Go to Top of Page

Dennis
Great Reader

9933 Posts

Posted - 09 May 2012 :  01:03:34  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus

quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

Yeah, but didn't that elf merge with the mythal over the big elven community just off the desert (wow, my realms speak is getting weak from disuse), and he was using the shadow weave.


-Translation: Didn't Galaeron use the Shadow Weave when helping the High Magi repair Evereska's mythal, making it a Shadow Weave hybrid?

-Answer: Yes.


Right. And this makes me think that likely, should Shade find it necessary to conquer Evareska and tries to weaken its mythal by casting a Shadowshell around it, Galaeron's share of shadow magic might either delay or cancel the effects of the Shadowshell.

quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

I just had an epiphany about the Netherese - Evolution. If survival of the fittest rings true even in a fantasy setting, then the Shades should have taken all the lessons learned by the ancient Netherese and be that much smarter. They learned humility - something I don't think the Imaskari ever learned...


Indeed. And I suppose, their 'unity' ---something the old Netheril had but vaguely--- was a real boost. They came to accept one ruler---Telamont Tanthul. Even Rivalen, as ambitious as he was treacherous, had never shown interest in usurping his father's throne. Plus, Telamont listens to his sons' advice, who were wise in their own right (at least three were known to be so).

quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

On the other hand, the Halruaans should have been even greater, not having fled into the Shadowfel like rats fleeing a sinking ship.


Given time, yes. Until the nuke made it nothing but a huge crater.

-----

To Wooly and MT (about Shar's downfall):

Gods come and go. Gods die as do their worshipers. All the more reason why an ancient civilization that survives to the present must have sought other sources of magic that are independent from the whims of gods. The people of Shade are not infallible, but something this obvious a truth they should have realized already.

Every beginning has an end.

Edited by - Dennis on 09 May 2012 01:13:07
Go to Top of Page

Eli the Tanner
Learned Scribe

United Kingdom
146 Posts

Posted - 09 May 2012 :  01:34:32  Show Profile  Visit Eli the Tanner's Homepage Send Eli the Tanner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

I did note, as you did, that the "supermodules" seemed to be setting Shar up for a fall, which subsequent lore did not run with. I even started a thread talking about it, at the time, theorizing that Shar was tied to the Shadow Weave the way Mystra was tied to the Weave, and that the loss of the Weave would take out the Shadow Weave, weaking Shar in the process. That, to me, would have explained how "the Dark Diviners of Windsong Tower deduced a coming weakness of Shar".



Correct me if I'm wrong (not too savvy on 4e/spellplague lore) but I thought the Shadow weave also fell when Mystra died...and Shar's power grab for the Weave failed as a result.

From those adventures, I always reckoned that the Church of Shar was trying to seperate the Shadow Weave from the Weave, and thereby Mystra (hence the dead magic zones), as a way of avoiding it failing alongside the Weave.

In that sense, Shar's weakness was her connection to Mystra.

I always quite liked the idea of Shar as this despairing goddess that hated that her power was so tied up with Mystra (and selune to an extent)...the thing she craves most is to be separate, alone. For me I saw her as this tragic figure tortured by her connection to others, by the scar of that first battle with Selune. Mystra personifies that loss...and is the conduit she is still forced to work through.

The assassination of Mystra was the deranged and desperate move of someone who would rather lop off their own arm than live with that.

poor, poor Shar

Moderator of /r/Forgotten_Realms
Go to Top of Page

Dennis
Great Reader

9933 Posts

Posted - 09 May 2012 :  02:28:33  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Eli the Tanner

Correct me if I'm wrong (not too savvy on 4e/spellplague lore) but I thought the Shadow weave also fell when Mystra died...and Shar's power grab for the Weave failed as a result.


That's correct. Szass Tam himself saw the condition of both Weaves when he cast a "world-window" spell. [See details in Undead, Book II of The Haunted Lands trilogy.]

It was also mentioned in one of the sourcebooks, stating that Shar had miscalculated, not expecting that her Shadow Weave would collapse along with the Weave.

Every beginning has an end.
Go to Top of Page

Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
29704 Posts

Posted - 09 May 2012 :  04:26:55  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Eli the Tanner

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

I did note, as you did, that the "supermodules" seemed to be setting Shar up for a fall, which subsequent lore did not run with. I even started a thread talking about it, at the time, theorizing that Shar was tied to the Shadow Weave the way Mystra was tied to the Weave, and that the loss of the Weave would take out the Shadow Weave, weaking Shar in the process. That, to me, would have explained how "the Dark Diviners of Windsong Tower deduced a coming weakness of Shar".



Correct me if I'm wrong (not too savvy on 4e/spellplague lore) but I thought the Shadow weave also fell when Mystra died...and Shar's power grab for the Weave failed as a result.

From those adventures, I always reckoned that the Church of Shar was trying to seperate the Shadow Weave from the Weave, and thereby Mystra (hence the dead magic zones), as a way of avoiding it failing alongside the Weave.

In that sense, Shar's weakness was her connection to Mystra.

I always quite liked the idea of Shar as this despairing goddess that hated that her power was so tied up with Mystra (and selune to an extent)...the thing she craves most is to be separate, alone. For me I saw her as this tragic figure tortured by her connection to others, by the scar of that first battle with Selune. Mystra personifies that loss...and is the conduit she is still forced to work through.

The assassination of Mystra was the deranged and desperate move of someone who would rather lop off their own arm than live with that.

poor, poor Shar



Ah, but it spoke of a coming weakness... Which meant that it was something beyond having that rather tenuous connection to Mystra.

Of course, before 3E, Shar never paid any attention to Mystra -- her fight was with Selūne. It's only in 3E that her focus shifted, and in 4E, Shar's "coming weakness" somehow became her being even more prominent.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Editor and scribe for The Candlekeep Compendium

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
Go to Top of Page

Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
13245 Posts

Posted - 09 May 2012 :  04:35:46  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
And according to the stuff I read today, Lolth is going to become the new goddess of Arcane magic with her Demon-Weave. At least, she is going to attempt it, and challenge Shar's supremacy.

Not sure how I feel about that. Shadow-stuff over-done. Drow-stuff WAY over-done. I don't know if I'm ambivalent, or just want both of them to lose.

Either way, it should be a helluva ride.

When are the halflings going to raise their Cheesecake Weave? Now THAT's something I can sink my teeth into.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

Go to Top of Page

Xar Zarath
Senior Scribe

Malaysia
552 Posts

Posted - 09 May 2012 :  06:01:45  Show Profile Send Xar Zarath a Private Message  Reply with Quote
And cast "Meteor Cheese Swarm"!! Still a grave should be dug for Shar. Yeesh she has gone on too long...Lolth too. Still I think Telamont might help with that, he does not seem like the religious fanatic his son is. He may choose to help by not helping at all...

Everything ends where it begins. Period.



Go to Top of Page

Dennis
Great Reader

9933 Posts

Posted - 09 May 2012 :  06:13:54  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote

Telamont would do more than not helping. He once gave an order to Rivalen that defied Shar.

The return of Mask is nigh, and that might herald the (complete, utter, irreversible) demise of Shar. I think he intended/allowed Rivalen to have a share of his divinity, because the murderous prince is closely linked to Shar. So when he thinks it time to return (for I'm sure he will), he'd use such Nightseer-goddess link to steal her portfolio.

Every beginning has an end.
Go to Top of Page
Page: of 8 Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
Previous Page | Next Page
 New Topic  New Poll New Poll
 Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Jump To:
Candlekeep Forum © 1999-2017 Candlekeep.com Go To Top Of Page
Snitz Forums 2000