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Light
Learned Scribe

Australia
231 Posts

Posted - 07 Sep 2011 :  11:43:39  Show Profile Send Light a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
I'm sure I remember reading a scroll on here or maybe just some page on another forum that talked about what I want to know but despite my searching I could not find it. So anyway I'd like to know any and all of the surviving Netheril mages from before the fall. So far I've got Ioulaum, Tabras, The Shades, Larloch, Aumvor.....and that's it. They don't have to be alive as of the 1400s or even the 1300s just well after the fall of Netheril. Any names are appreciated!

EDIT: Oh! And does anyone know if any official images of Telamont Tanthul exist and if so where they can be found?

"A true warrior needs no sword" - Thors (Vinland Saga)

Edited by - Light on 07 Sep 2011 11:55:10

Dennis
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9933 Posts

Posted - 07 Sep 2011 :  12:49:46  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote

The archwizard Lady Saharel, ruler of Spellgard, who became an archlich after the fall of Netheril. In the novel Shadows of Doom, she sacrificed herself in order to kill Manshoon and defend Elminster (which if you'd ask me, was a bit too much. I just don't think it would necessitate the full power of an archlich to destroy a Shoonclone.)

I don't think there's any official images of the Most High. The fan-made ones are not even close to the descriptions given in the novels.

Every beginning has an end.

Edited by - Dennis on 07 Sep 2011 15:32:29
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sfdragon
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2219 Posts

Posted - 07 Sep 2011 :  13:26:39  Show Profile Send sfdragon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Jeriah Kronus aka the chronomancer

why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power


My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
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Dennis
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9933 Posts

Posted - 07 Sep 2011 :  13:47:29  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote

Jeriah died in -2103 DR, which was before the Fall (-339 DR).

Edit: Light, what is it really that you want to know? Before or after the Fall?

Every beginning has an end.

Edited by - Dennis on 07 Sep 2011 13:52:38
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Light
Learned Scribe

Australia
231 Posts

Posted - 07 Sep 2011 :  14:28:27  Show Profile Send Light a Private Message  Reply with Quote
No no don't worry Dennis you were on track. I only really care about those who survived the fall.

"A true warrior needs no sword" - Thors (Vinland Saga)
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Dennis
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Posted - 07 Sep 2011 :  15:03:44  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Baerauble Etharr was a Netherese wizard who later became the High Wizard of Cormyr. He was also known as Baerauble the Venerable and Baerauble the Wise.

Shradin Mulophor was a powerful Netherese necromancer that survived the fall of Netheril. The Skulls killed him.

Tabra was an apprentice of the wizard Ioulaum. She has been captured by the Shadovar and brought to the city of Shade. Not much is known about her present state.

Therion Gers was one of the first rulers of Netheril. He died 1374 DR.

Every beginning has an end.

Edited by - Dennis on 07 Sep 2011 16:14:58
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Marc
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618 Posts

Posted - 07 Sep 2011 :  16:28:09  Show Profile Send Marc a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Telbran Nelarn from Waterdeep
Parzal the Outrageus
Quantoul
Rhaugilath the Ageless
Wulgreth
Morasha
one unnamed that lives in Suzail and manipulates the War Wizards
Keeper of Thaal

.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
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USA
32012 Posts

Posted - 07 Sep 2011 :  17:51:49  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm at home and away from my notes, but Ed has previously indicated there's a fair number of Netherese who survived the Fall and are still active in some form.

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bladeinAmn
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Posted - 07 Sep 2011 :  20:15:51  Show Profile  Visit bladeinAmn's Homepage Send bladeinAmn a Private Message  Reply with Quote
From BG2:SoA,

-Nevaziah, a lich who has almost nigh forgotten who he was, who says he was fleeing Netheril (and Edwin later gets a Nether Scroll from him).
-Kangaxx the demi-lich is originally from Netheril.
-The Shade Lich & Elemental Lich that were guarding Kangaxx's remains were also originally from Netheril.

I think the best thing one can do is make their own surviving wizard from Netheril, to enrich their campaigns. The best source to aid in that end is the free D/L, Arcane Age: Netheril - Empire of Magic, found here: http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=13961

Edit: The above link doesn't work, but this one does:

http://web.archive.org/web/20050403143759/http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/downloads
Copy & paste it into your browser heading.

Edited by - bladeinAmn on 07 Sep 2011 20:33:19
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Dennis
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Posted - 07 Sep 2011 :  23:25:26  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote

Halaster used to be rumored as a Netherese. But more recent sources indicate that he hailed from Imaskar.

Every beginning has an end.
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
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Australia
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Posted - 08 Sep 2011 :  01:39:28  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

I'm at home and away from my notes, but Ed has previously indicated there's a fair number of Netherese who survived the Fall and are still active in some form.

Indeed. He's detailed several in his "So Saith Ed" replies.

It should be noted, too, that many of the descendants also created Haluraa. And some, over the years, turned into magical items. Others went into hiding/exile/etc.

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Ayrik
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Canada
6770 Posts

Posted - 08 Sep 2011 :  02:12:25  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I thought the Netherese diaspora reached all corners of Faerūn? Halruaa, Thay, perhaps exotic Zahkara or even sorties to Wildspace, other worlds, and other planes. It's somewhat surprising that the commoners dispersed throughout nearby lands, the ones we call the North and the Sword Coast, Cormyr, Sembia, the Dales, the Moonsea, etc ... while (with few exceptions) the once-mighty arcanists put the greatest distance possible between themselves and their fallen glory.

[/Ayrik]
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The Sage
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Posted - 08 Sep 2011 :  03:16:15  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik

I thought the Netherese diaspora reached all corners of Faerūn? Halruaa, Thay, perhaps exotic Zahkara or even sorties to Wildspace, other worlds, and other planes. It's somewhat surprising that the commoners dispersed throughout nearby lands, the ones we call the North and the Sword Coast, Cormyr, Sembia, the Dales, the Moonsea, etc ... while (with few exceptions) the once-mighty arcanists put the greatest distance possible between themselves and their fallen glory.

Ed's replies cover some of the Netherese disapora.

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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
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Posted - 08 Sep 2011 :  05:04:46  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Here's a couple bits of info from Ed, combined into one post:

quote:
I know of at least a dozen Netherese who are still active in the Realms of today, albeit some of them in greatly changed forms. Hint: a LOT of Netherese bound themselves into magic items (especially swords), to 'live on' telepathically. If your blade seems able to see what's around it without having visible eyes, hear thoughts of nearby creatures, and mend/heal itself in limited ways, it just might contain the sentience of a Netherese.

The pages of ELMINSTER: THE MAKING OF A MAGE and SHADOWS OF DOOM both contain Netherese survivors (one each), and I can reveal here that I know of at least two who reside quietly (pretending to be "just plain folks") in Waterdeep and Suzail, respectively. No, I'm not going to give names, because for a DM it's far more useful to have them as ‘handy tools.'

The Waterdhavian one founded a successful mercantile family now regarded as noble, and then (having prepared for this with covert investments, coin caches, and property purchases) faked his own death, to reappear as a retired merchant, a role he's played several times since. Like Elminster, he meddles covertly in city politics and society, spreading rumors and ‘turning' particular individuals to hold more cosmopolitan world-views (investing in other lands, and taking an interest in folk from those places). He does this because he very much wants to avoid Waterdhavian haughtiness from growing any greater than it is already.

The Suzailan one is a female who firmly believes that Netheril fell because of overweening pride and overarching mastery of magic. She enjoys life in Cormyr (when it isn't imperiled by war, of course), has hidden coins and gold in plenty for her needs, and covertly works to do two things: confuse and confound War Wizard investigations, and to make both War Wizards and others think that there are secret personal dangers involved in too much spellcasting, and in casting specific, over-powerful spells. She is VERY good at keeping hidden, spreading such rumors through the mouths of passing strangers by means of suggestion magics, and never doing anything openly herself. She's no enemy of the Crown; she just doesn't think allowing the War Wizards to reach the status of ‘extremely effective secret police' is a good idea. She's dwelt in Suzail for almost forty years, and knows it will soon be time to "disappear" or be noticed as something other than the well-to- do widow she's pretending to be, but is tarrying because she enjoys the city and its folk so much (she perceives a rising danger in wealthy, ever-restless Sembia of sorcerers and wizards becoming overproud and reckless in their use of magic, but has such a distaste for what she's seen of Sembian society that she just doesn't want to go there, while also seeing that it would be a very good place to take a new face and name).

You can, of course, create many more Netherese, though I'd suggest that they all conceal their origins and that they NOT (or try not) to know of each other, rather than forming any sort of shadowy secret society or power group. That would be why, even for the two examples from my novels, clearly identified Netherese should be very scarce. After all, if Netheril is most remembered as a "land of awesome magic," then anyone identified as Netherese can expect wizards and sorcerers to launch surprise attacks, mind- invasions, and attempts to capture or financially control them, to get all the magic that's "surely" waiting in their minds, or in the case of items, hidden in places they know.

...the Netherese survivors won't get along at all well with the people of Shade. In fact, I'd venture to say that ALL surviving Netherese in Faerūn would be wary at best, and actively hostile at worst, to the new "arrivals."

"Hiding from and otherwise ignoring" would probably be their initial reaction, and they'll quite rightly see attempts by the folk of Shade to find them as attempts to snatch their power. If that happens just once, word will get around, and the folk of Shade will then discover they've bitten off a lot more than they can ever hope to chew.



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Marc
Senior Scribe

618 Posts

Posted - 08 Sep 2011 :  06:41:27  Show Profile Send Marc a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Zikthann and other unknown liches of Illusk
Wondermen of Scornubel
the archmage that is trapped in Stone that Speaks
Thakloamur, Mingaudorr from Lost Empires of Faerun
Skulls of Skullport
Larloch's liches
city of Opus
and Saldrinar of Westgate, I don't know if he's gone


.
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Dennis
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9933 Posts

Posted - 08 Sep 2011 :  11:44:12  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Marc

Larloch's liches


Some, but not all the 60+, I guess.

Every beginning has an end.
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Light
Learned Scribe

Australia
231 Posts

Posted - 08 Sep 2011 :  15:07:34  Show Profile Send Light a Private Message  Reply with Quote
...hmm I never thought there would be so many. Always figured that there was only a very few. And a special thankyou to bladeinAmn because I myself was thinking about Kangaxx the other day and wondering if he claimed to be from Netheril.

"A true warrior needs no sword" - Thors (Vinland Saga)
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althen artren
Senior Scribe

USA
778 Posts

Posted - 08 Sep 2011 :  21:57:34  Show Profile Send althen artren a Private Message  Reply with Quote
There also might be Netheril suvivors at the botton
of the Burial Glen is Mistledale, for I think I remember
that Ed said those were once Netherese research labs,
and that some of the items recovered there house the
spirits of Netherese. Plus, "I" think there is a lich
or demilich down there somewhere.
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Ayrik
Great Reader

Canada
6770 Posts

Posted - 08 Sep 2011 :  22:26:40  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
An assumption is that liches are all living mages who transferred their souls into phylacteries (or whatever) to attain a form of magically-sustained unliving immortality/longevity. It seems possible that the process can be altered (some might say improved) by removing the troublesome requirement for the mage to actually still be alive prior to liching; ie, a way to directly reanimate dead mages into undead ones, which basically means retrieving the soul from death prior to placing it within the phylactery. If such a thing is indeed possible then Larloch is exactly the sort of guy who would discover a method; and if this is so, then it might very well be that all of his (60+) lich servitors were once actually dead, quite possibly once mages who had lived and died as Netherese arcanists.

[Edit]

It also seems likely that Larloch dedicated a little time over the millennia towards "recruiting" his liches. The liching process is said to be somewhat difficult (and risky) to discover, Larloch might have simply approached suitably qualified mages and offered to trade the secrets (and/or alleviate the risks) involved in this process in exchange for spell energy. This idea is not incompatible with my first idea; Larloch might have some method of approaching mages with this offer for lichdom even after they've already died, recognizing Larloch as master might seem a small price to pay for a second chance at (un)life. Then again, liches are attracted to power and magic, Larloch might be something of a celebrity who attracts liches because he's accumulated vast quantities of both.

I also note the dracolich process developed by the Cult of the Dragon; it apparently requires the willing surrender of the would-be dracolich and has the unadvertised side effect of eternally binding the dragon's soul ("anima") under the Cult's sinister dominance. Larloch may have devised something similar which binds the souls (or at least the spell energy) of aspiring liches directly to him; he might have even been a bastard and scattered his version of slave-liching throughout Faerūn to prey upon the power of foolish and lazy archmages seeking shortcuts to immortality.

Finally, little is actually known or said about these lich servitors. They may have in fact originated from other worlds entirely, they may not (usually) reside within the time and space and dimension we know as the Realms. They might even be some sort of echos or pseudo-clones or constructs manifested entirely through Larloch's own dead flesh, mastery of magic, and force of will. They might've been subjugated by Larloch only after already liching themselves up, or they might've been enticed to ally with Larloch's work towards some great project which is unfathomable to lowly mortals; perhaps their goals are benign (that is, not malign), they might simply be concerned with survival in an anti-lich world or they might be attempting to develop or achieve the next stage of magical evolution/ascension (under Larloch's nominal leadership), they might care little (if at all) about Realms so long as their work/research remains relatively uninterrupted - there are wizard guilds, so why not a guild of liches, eh? Conversely, it might be that Larloch himself is an unwilling participant (even a victim) of this arrangement, simply a pawn manipulated by some more powerful entity (like Mystra or Karsus acting "subconsciously" through the sentient Weave, or Shar, or Vecna, or any ugly fill-in-the-blank überfiend, or an overgod like Ao or one of Ao's rivals/competitors, whatever). Larloch is described as being insane by many sources, as being a (supra)genius by others; perhaps the distinction is meaningless to the frail minds of the living, perchance even to the mental perceptions of Faerūnian deities.

Ed has been uncharacteristically forthcoming (non-evasive) in what he's said about Larloch, and what he's said basically amounts to "Larloch is deliberately described as being as mysterious and phenomenally powerful as each DM/author desires to make him to suit the needs of the campaign".

[/Ayrik]

Edited by - Ayrik on 08 Sep 2011 23:42:47
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Dennis
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9933 Posts

Posted - 08 Sep 2011 :  23:42:43  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote

Ed mentioned about the origins of some of the 60+ lich servitors of Larloch. Perhaps Sage or Wooly could find that particular post for us.

[Edit]

Those who call Larloch insane might be correct. There is a very thin line that separates ingenuity from insanity.

Every beginning has an end.

Edited by - Dennis on 09 Sep 2011 00:46:53
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Light
Learned Scribe

Australia
231 Posts

Posted - 11 Jan 2012 :  11:36:19  Show Profile Send Light a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis

Therion Gers was one of the first rulers of Netheril. He died 1374 DR.
- Where exactly did you get this?
quote:
Originally posted by Marc

Zikthann and other unknown liches of Illusk
Wondermen of Scornubel
the archmage that is trapped in Stone that Speaks
- I know of the liches of Illusk but where is the name 'Zikthann' mentioned?
- I couldn't find any mention of the WoS being Netherese, any help on the source?
- In what source does this archmage in the Stone that Speaks appear in?

"A true warrior needs no sword" - Thors (Vinland Saga)

Edited by - Light on 11 Jan 2012 11:42:33
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Marc
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618 Posts

Posted - 11 Jan 2012 :  13:46:12  Show Profile Send Marc a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Wondermen, FRA, page 103
Zikthann in Drizzt's Guide to Underdark, 91
Stone that Speaks in Volo's Guide to the Sword Coast, 119
Therion must be a novel I didn't read

.
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Dennis
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9933 Posts

Posted - 11 Jan 2012 :  14:08:48  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Light

quote:
Originally posted by Dennis

Therion Gers was one of the first rulers of Netheril. He died 1374 DR.
- Where exactly did you get this?


From Netheril: Empire of Magic, p. 5:

quote:

One of the many things the elves traded was magic. Nether the Younger’s friend, Therion Gers, was the first Netherese to learn this new trade. After one year of tutelage in the ways of cantras (0-level spells), he cast a spell to start a campfire. Two years later, the community considered the first human arcanist (Netheril’s name for a wizard) the third-most-important person in their society, under Nether the Young and Spiritsummoner the shaman. The people changed the mage’s name to Therion the First of Gers, since he was the first arcanist of Netheril.




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Dennis
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9933 Posts

Posted - 11 Jan 2012 :  14:12:06  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Marc

Therion must be a novel I didn't read

I can't recall any novels where he appeared or was mentioned. Not even in the Arcane Age trilogy. But he was mentioned in Netheril: Empire of Magic. See my post above.

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sleyvas
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USA
7950 Posts

Posted - 11 Jan 2012 :  14:40:56  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik

An assumption is that liches are all living mages who transferred their souls into phylacteries (or whatever) to attain a form of magically-sustained unliving immortality/longevity. It seems possible that the process can be altered (some might say improved) by removing the troublesome requirement for the mage to actually still be alive prior to liching; ie, a way to directly reanimate dead mages into undead ones, which basically means retrieving the soul from death prior to placing it within the phylactery. If such a thing is indeed possible then Larloch is exactly the sort of guy who would discover a method; and if this is so, then it might very well be that all of his (60+) lich servitors were once actually dead, quite possibly once mages who had lived and died as Netherese arcanists.

[Edit]

It also seems likely that Larloch dedicated a little time over the millennia towards "recruiting" his liches. The liching process is said to be somewhat difficult (and risky) to discover, Larloch might have simply approached suitably qualified mages and offered to trade the secrets (and/or alleviate the risks) involved in this process in exchange for spell energy. This idea is not incompatible with my first idea; Larloch might have some method of approaching mages with this offer for lichdom even after they've already died, recognizing Larloch as master might seem a small price to pay for a second chance at (un)life. Then again, liches are attracted to power and magic, Larloch might be something of a celebrity who attracts liches because he's accumulated vast quantities of both.

I also note the dracolich process developed by the Cult of the Dragon; it apparently requires the willing surrender of the would-be dracolich and has the unadvertised side effect of eternally binding the dragon's soul ("anima") under the Cult's sinister dominance. Larloch may have devised something similar which binds the souls (or at least the spell energy) of aspiring liches directly to him; he might have even been a bastard and scattered his version of slave-liching throughout Faerūn to prey upon the power of foolish and lazy archmages seeking shortcuts to immortality.

Finally, little is actually known or said about these lich servitors. They may have in fact originated from other worlds entirely, they may not (usually) reside within the time and space and dimension we know as the Realms. They might even be some sort of echos or pseudo-clones or constructs manifested entirely through Larloch's own dead flesh, mastery of magic, and force of will. They might've been subjugated by Larloch only after already liching themselves up, or they might've been enticed to ally with Larloch's work towards some great project which is unfathomable to lowly mortals; perhaps their goals are benign (that is, not malign), they might simply be concerned with survival in an anti-lich world or they might be attempting to develop or achieve the next stage of magical evolution/ascension (under Larloch's nominal leadership), they might care little (if at all) about Realms so long as their work/research remains relatively uninterrupted - there are wizard guilds, so why not a guild of liches, eh? Conversely, it might be that Larloch himself is an unwilling participant (even a victim) of this arrangement, simply a pawn manipulated by some more powerful entity (like Mystra or Karsus acting "subconsciously" through the sentient Weave, or Shar, or Vecna, or any ugly fill-in-the-blank überfiend, or an overgod like Ao or one of Ao's rivals/competitors, whatever). Larloch is described as being insane by many sources, as being a (supra)genius by others; perhaps the distinction is meaningless to the frail minds of the living, perchance even to the mental perceptions of Faerūnian deities.

Ed has been uncharacteristically forthcoming (non-evasive) in what he's said about Larloch, and what he's said basically amounts to "Larloch is deliberately described as being as mysterious and phenomenally powerful as each DM/author desires to make him to suit the needs of the campaign".



The idea of reviving the dead mages and turning them into liches is intriguing. It does bring up some problems of performing something almost like a resurrection in pulling their spirit from the outer planes though. However, if I were DM'ing it, I'd make that a lot harder than tricking some lazy mage into modifying his lich ritual in such a way that it binds their phylactery to something that Larloch holds.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Dennis
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9933 Posts

Posted - 11 Jan 2012 :  15:15:28  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote

You may take away the fun if you transform them all to liches...One or two are a rarity...Too many have the potential to be a bore...

Every beginning has an end.
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