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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3286 Posts |
 Posted - 06 Jun 2011 : 10:50:08
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The Bury Elminster Deep sample chapter was posted on the WotC site this morning.
Very interesting...
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"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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_Jarlaxle_
Senior Scribe
Germany
584 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jun 2011 : 11:37:19
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| Very interesting indeed |
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Cleric Generic
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
565 Posts |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3240 Posts |
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GRYPHON
Senior Scribe
USA
527 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jun 2011 : 18:07:14
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| Interesting... |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3738 Posts |
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Thente Thunderspells
Seeker
USA
65 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jun 2011 : 19:31:28
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Well she says that he can access "more powerful" magics... maybe he still can't get to teleport and only has access to Dimension Door? Which would mean you'd have to bury him 1440+ feet deep (2880+ with Enlarge spell) based on a CL26 for 3E Elminster...[=D]
Either way, this is the best sample Chapter from WotC I've ready in a VERY long time. Guess I'll still be buying some stuff they put out. |
The fool doth think he is wise, but the wise man knows himself to be a fool.
- Shakespeare |
Edited by - Thente Thunderspells on 06 Jun 2011 19:31:58 |
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Sith_Lord_Drizzt
Seeker
Canada
92 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jun 2011 : 16:37:06
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| Wow....!!!...Just wow!!! |
"Jarlaxle's grin disappeared as he turned his attention to Drizzt. He watched the fury of the drow unleashed. Jarlaxle had seen Drizzt in action many times before, but never like that".
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Bakra
Senior Scribe
628 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jun 2011 : 17:34:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Sith_Lord_Drizzt
Wow....!!!...Just wow!!!
I liked it too. It only needs a quote at the start of the chapter. |
I hope Candlekeep continues to be the friendly forum of fellow Realms-lovers that it has always been, as we all go through this together. If you don’t want to move to the “new” Realms, that doesn’t mean there’s anything wrong with either you or the “old” Realms. Goodness knows Candlekeep, and the hearts of its scribes, are both big enough to accommodate both. If we want them to be.
(Strikes dramatic pose, raises sword to gleam in the sunset, and hopes breeches won’t fall down.)
Enough for now. The Realms lives! I have spoken! Ale and light wines half price, served by a smiling Storm Silverhand fetchingly clad in thigh-high boots and naught else! Ahem . .
So saith Ed. <snip>
love to all,
THO
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3738 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jun 2011 : 17:54:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Thente Thunderspells
Well she says that he can access "more powerful" magics... maybe he still can't get to teleport and only has access to Dimension Door? Which would mean you'd have to bury him 1440+ feet deep (2880+ with Enlarge spell) based on a CL26 for 3E Elminster...[=D]
-That's pretty deep. A good thing Elminster's enemies have had some time to extract their revenge and whatnot, cause it's gonna take some time to dig a hole that deep. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerûn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerûn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jun 2011 : 19:11:57
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FYI, all interested scribes:
Ed tells me he wrote quotations for all the chapterheads.
I suspect that, as happened with EL MUST DIE!, that Wizards is saving them for web teasers and the mass market paperback edition.
love to all,
THO |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jun 2011 : 01:32:01
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
FYI, all interested scribes:
Ed tells me he wrote quotations for all the chapterheads.
I suspect that, as happened with EL MUST DIE!, that Wizards is saving them for web teasers and the mass market paperback edition.
love to all,
THO
Awesome! I printed out the original chapterheads from Elminster Must Die! at work and started using them as book marks for the thirty or so books I was reading at the time.
I expect to do the same for Ed's new release as well. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jun 2011 : 01:50:38
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I loved the chapter heads...
the who said what on whatver god cursed day and year...
I'd love to read all of them from all of Ed's books.
I keep hoping Ed would do one quoting that mage in temptation of elminster when he said Faerun will always have her medelsome mages.... |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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Eltheron
Senior Scribe
740 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jun 2011 : 06:40:49
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Not quite the, er, manifestation of Mystra I was expecting, but interesting nonetheless.
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"The very best possible post-fourteenth-century Realms lets down those who love the specific, detailed social, political and magical situation, with its thousands of characters, developed over forty years, and want to learn more about it; and those who'd be open to a new one with equal depth, which there just isn't time to re-produce; and those repelled, some past the point of no return, by the bad-taste-and-plausibility gap of things done to the world when its guardianship was less careful."
--Faraer |
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Aldrick
Senior Scribe
909 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jun 2011 : 16:41:07
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Well I've finally taken the time to read the sample chapter. Here are my thoughts.
First, let me just be clear: I'm not a FR novel reader. I haven't read Elminster Must Die! And I don't typically like novels set in the Realms. I have huge biases toward such writing and it makes my interest in such things a huge hurtle to clear. With that being said...
My second point, is that I believe Ed's writing has improved dramatically. I haven't read any of his recent work, but the sample chapter was one of the best samples WotC has ever put forward. It was perfectly paced and engaging, and I felt myself moving from one word to the next wanting to know more. Even with all the biases I have built in, Ed has managed to clear that hurtle with this sample chapter, and were the entire book available to me, I definitely would have continued reading. Were I browsing the book in a store, I definitely would have purchased it, and I am VERY interested in learning more.
Truly, it was a good piece of writing, and if the rest of the book continues on with this level of quality, I may have to go back and buy the first book and read the entire Trilogy - despite all my reservations.
Third, I'm pretty convinced that the being Elminster encountered was NOT Mystra. Unless Ed was being purposefully misleading and attempting to sow doubt intentionally, it was profoundly obvious to me that Elminster is being misled.
I have two guesses who he really encountered in that cave... either Shar or Cyric. My gut is telling me that it is Cyric, and that Elminster is actually about to stupidly begin working toward freeing Cyric from his imprisonment.
Let's review:
1. Cyric is the god of lies and illusions. It is easily within his power to fool anyone - even Elminster.
2. Cyric was intimately familiar with Midnight and that incarnation of Mystra, and thus it made more sense for him to pretend to be her than a previous incarnation. It makes the lies he tells all the more believable.
3. Cyric, like Midnight, was a mortal once before... he may have been telling a half-truth (with much amusement on his end). "Some blood of my mortal self spilled on these trifles of Art in the time before I became Mystra..." Just swap Mystra / Midnight for Cyric. This may have been how Cyric is managing to communicate outside his prison.
4. "I am . . . preoccupied much, now." Why the pause in dialog for Mystra? My guess is by "preoccupied" Mystra AKA Cyric means "imprisoned."
5. Mystra: "...spies for all my Chosen."
Elminster (thinking to himself uncertain): "All my Chosen?
Ah, Storm and Alassra, of course. If there were more, and Mystra desired him to know of them, she would reveal them..."
Seeing as how Cyric has been imprisoned he's not fully up-to-date with the goings on of the world. In Elminster's excitement (and desperate hope) at "Mystra's" return he didn't stop to really consider things further.
6. Elminster has been ordered to: "Recruit new Chosen, and gather them here for me to confer with." Why HERE? That's the ultimate question. Of course, bringing them there - to that cave - makes sense if you can't appear anywhere else.
7. The whole chapter is filled with Elminster being excited and over eager. He even admits that he even wonders and feels as if he's probably wandering into a trap, but does so anyway - in his desperate hope to be reunited with Mystra. He even remarks to himself later toward the end of the chapter: "Mystra—if it was Mystra—had drained much energy from his borrowed body..." After / during the healing of his insanity.
8. Speaking of the way that healing went... "Mystra" didn't seem the least bit concerned that she was basically shattering Amarune's mind did she? In the process of that healing "Mystra" according to Elminster basically drained half of Amarune's life essence or some such. To quote directly: "Bare and chilled, feeling sick and empty—kiss of Mystra, half of Rune’s energy must be gone..."
9. Mystra wants "new" Chosen... why? She called the Seven Sister's a mistake. She wants the War Wizards turned into spies for her new Chosen.
The list goes on and on...
So many red flags went up and alarms sounded in my head... but, in the end, I feel very eager to know more about what is happening. I find myself excited to continue reading, and if I could have I definitely would have went to the next chapter and beyond. So all in all - very successful sample, and I am looking forward to learning the truth.
I'm hoping I'm right, because this would prove to be more interesting than doing the obvious.
However, with this hint dropped by Ed via THO:
"Ed adds a caveat to all readers, regarding the events in that sample chapter:
Please bear in mind that jumping to conclusions involves leaps into the unknown."
I think I may be hitting close to the truth.
I'm excited to learn more. |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3240 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jun 2011 : 17:10:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Aldrick
1. Cyric is the god of lies and illusions. It is easily within his power to fool anyone - even Elminster.
True.
quote:
Originally posted by Aldrick
2. Cyric was intimately familiar with Midnight and that incarnation of Mystra, and thus it made more sense for him to pretend to be her than a previous incarnation. It makes the lies he tells all the more believable.
True.
quote:
Originally posted by Aldrick
3. Cyric, like Midnight, was a mortal once before... he may have been telling a half-truth (with much amusement on his end). "Some blood of my mortal self spilled on these trifles of Art in the time before I became Mystra..." Just swap Mystra / Midnight for Cyric. This may have been how Cyric is managing to communicate outside his prison.
True.
quote:
Originally posted by Aldrick
4. "I am . . . preoccupied much, now." Why the pause in dialog for Mystra? My guess is by "preoccupied" Mystra AKA Cyric means "imprisoned."
See, this is where it falls apart in my opinion. Cyric was imprisoned by the other gods. So, now he's the most powerful of all the gods? In order to wriggle a portion of himself out of the prison without any of the other gods noticing, he'd have to be. Also, if he's strong enough to a) communicate from prison and b) impersonate another god, what's holding him back from a full escape? And why not contact his loyal clerics instead? Mystra is "preoccupied" because she's attuning herself to the new laws of magic, AKA "rebuilding the Weave".
quote:
Originally posted by Aldrick
5. Mystra: "...spies for all my Chosen."
Elminster (thinking to himself uncertain): "All my Chosen?
Ah, Storm and Alassra, of course. If there were more, and Mystra desired him to know of them, she would reveal them..."
Seeing as how Cyric has been imprisoned he's not fully up-to-date with the goings on of the world. In Elminster's excitement (and desperate hope) at "Mystra's" return he didn't stop to really consider things further.
We know from previous discussions here at the keep that there were many more Chosen than just El, Khelben and the Seven. And that there were Chosen that El and the others had never met, nor knew anything about. If El, Storm and Alassra could have survived, so could the others.
quote:
Originally posted by Aldrick
6. Elminster has been ordered to: "Recruit new Chosen, and gather them here for me to confer with." Why HERE? That's the ultimate question. Of course, bringing them there - to that cave - makes sense if you can't appear anywhere else.
True. Mystra has spent the last 100 years trying to "rebuild" her essence. The items in the cave are an anchor to that process, but she needs Chosen/Believers to get stronger so she no longer needs the anchor.
quote:
Originally posted by Aldrick
7. The whole chapter is filled with Elminster being excited and over eager. He even admits that he even wonders and feels as if he's probably wandering into a trap, but does so anyway - in his desperate hope to be reunited with Mystra. He even remarks to himself later toward the end of the chapter: "Mystra—if it was Mystra—had drained much energy from his borrowed body..." After / during the healing of his insanity.
True. He's not sure, because (as Ed has said numerous times) mortals cannot even fathom how the gods think or even if what they say is true. So, it could be another god, but the question begs as to why? If another god wanted to take Mystra's place and/or portfolio, they could have stepped up right after the Spellplague, but they didn't.
quote:
Originally posted by Aldrick
8. Speaking of the way that healing went... "Mystra" didn't seem the least bit concerned that she was basically shattering Amarune's mind did she? In the process of that healing "Mystra" according to Elminster basically drained half of Amarune's life essence or some such. To quote directly: "Bare and chilled, feeling sick and empty—kiss of Mystra, half of Rune’s energy must be gone..."
Time to read some of the other Elminster books. This is actually pretty typical of Mystra. When she (or most of the other gods, really) need somebody for a task, they often aren't gentle.
quote:
Originally posted by Aldrick
9. Mystra wants "new" Chosen... why? She called the Seven Sister's a mistake. She wants the War Wizards turned into spies for her new Chosen.
The mistake was that the Seven were "too attached" to her. And, I'm thinking that she's looking to get more of a varied outlook for her Chosen (i.e. not all of them being "Good"). Perhaps we'll get the True Neutral Mystra?
quote:
Originally posted by Aldrick
So many red flags went up and alarms sounded in my head... but, in the end, I feel very eager to know more about what is happening. I find myself excited to continue reading, and if I could have I definitely would have went to the next chapter and beyond. So all in all - very successful sample, and I am looking forward to learning the truth.
I'm hoping I'm right, because this would prove to be more interesting than doing the obvious.
However, with this hint dropped by Ed via THO:
"Ed adds a caveat to all readers, regarding the events in that sample chapter:
Please bear in mind that jumping to conclusions involves leaps into the unknown."
I think I may be hitting close to the truth.
I'm excited to learn more.
Too true. You have a decent theory here, but I'm going to disagree that it's Cyric for my stated reasons. But even if we don't agree on our suspicions, we can agree that the story will be fun!  |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Aldrick
Senior Scribe
909 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jun 2011 : 18:24:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
See, this is where it falls apart in my opinion. Cyric was imprisoned by the other gods. So, now he's the most powerful of all the gods? In order to wriggle a portion of himself out of the prison without any of the other gods noticing, he'd have to be. Also, if he's strong enough to a) communicate from prison and b) impersonate another god, what's holding him back from a full escape? And why not contact his loyal clerics instead? Mystra is "preoccupied" because she's attuning herself to the new laws of magic, AKA "rebuilding the Weave".
This may be true, as I said I didn't read the first book. Things may appear wholly different when taken in that context. However, I didn't mean for what I wrote to imply that Cyric is able to wriggle free of his prison. Rather, more like he'd found a loophole, and literally could not venture beyond the cave and / or was somehow connected to the magical objects within the cave. And that this was ONLY the case because they had been in his possession at some point while he was a mortal.
In other words, Cyric is still completely imprisoned. However, when Elminster was within the area he could "sense" him somehow... and falsely make him believe that he was Mystra. How? Who knows. Maybe it has to do with his divine senses. Maybe it has to do with the fact that he killed Mystra, and as a result obtained some portion of her power.
Regardless, I'd classify it as the divine equivalent of slipping a note under the prison door.
quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
We know from previous discussions here at the keep that there were many more Chosen than just El, Khelben and the Seven. And that there were Chosen that El and the others had never met, nor knew anything about. If El, Storm and Alassra could have survived, so could the others.
Yes, I know, but that didn't seem like the context in which El questioned himself. It felt as if Ed was attempting to draw a red flag and warn the reader: "Not all is as it appears!"
quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
True. He's not sure, because (as Ed has said numerous times) mortals cannot even fathom how the gods think or even if what they say is true. So, it could be another god, but the question begs as to why? If another god wanted to take Mystra's place and/or portfolio, they could have stepped up right after the Spellplague, but they didn't.
That's all technically true. It's difficult to speculate here because the events surrounding how Shar is suppressing the re-emergence of a new goddess of magic is yet to be revealed.
It could be that Cyric has technically claimed the mantle of the new god of magic, having killed Mystra, but due to his imprisonment is unable to exercise this new authority. This would (rather ironically) make Elminster and the remaining Chosen HIS servants. It would also explain how and why he was able to sense Elminster being nearby, and it would also aid him considerably in pulling off the lie successfully.
From everything we've observed in the past, killing a deity pretty much gives you the best chance you've got to stealing their portfolios. Cyric knows that better than anyone. So there is no reason to believe that he isn't technically the new deity of magic.
quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
Too true. You have a decent theory here, but I'm going to disagree that it's Cyric for my stated reasons. But even if we don't agree on our suspicions, we can agree that the story will be fun!
Indeed. I could be completely wrong - I'm not ruling it out! I just thought it'd be fun to speculate, because it seemed like Ed was going out of his way to point out that all was not as it seemed.
I'm very interested in seeing how this all manages to come together. |
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Caolin
Senior Scribe
768 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jun 2011 : 19:43:03
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| First off, I am so excited for the return of Mystra and I like the direction Ed is going with this. I for one don't believe for a second the mad ramblings of the "Cyric is Mystra" crowd. Contrary to popular thought, not everyone was happy about Mystra's demise. Plus, it just doesn't seem to be Ed's style. Sure, he loves loves to keep secrets in his novels and he loves twisting around motivations of characters. But having Cyric be Mystra is a little too.....what's the word? Blunt. It's way too obvious and frankly I think it would be an insult to fans of the Elminster and Mystra story. |
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Aldrick
Senior Scribe
909 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jun 2011 : 21:16:38
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Whose to say that we'll ever know the truth? 
Assuming that it is really Mystra, then it does appear as if she's at least taking the first tiny steps toward the dark side. Frankly, I'm happy with either outcome.
Although, I do have to say, it would be awesome if Ed decided to leave everyone wondering. Constantly have El and Mystra's interactions with him noticing things in which she appears different. Have subtle orders given to him and the other Chosen that are... morally dubious, at best.
Sometimes, it's better to constantly tease and leave everyone wondering about (or fearing) the truth.
Besides, Cyric wouldn't be the first deity to masquerade as another - especially dead - god(dess). Shar is famous for having done so on a number of occasions, but she is hardly the only one. And who better to masquerade as Mystra than the god of lies and illusion himself? |
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Caolin
Senior Scribe
768 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jun 2011 : 22:48:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Aldrick
Whose to say that we'll ever know the truth?
Assuming that it is really Mystra, then it does appear as if she's at least taking the first tiny steps toward the dark side. Frankly, I'm happy with either outcome.
Although, I do have to say, it would be awesome if Ed decided to leave everyone wondering. Constantly have El and Mystra's interactions with him noticing things in which she appears different. Have subtle orders given to him and the other Chosen that are... morally dubious, at best.
Sometimes, it's better to constantly tease and leave everyone wondering about (or fearing) the truth.
Besides, Cyric wouldn't be the first deity to masquerade as another - especially dead - god(dess). Shar is famous for having done so on a number of occasions, but she is hardly the only one. And who better to masquerade as Mystra than the god of lies and illusion himself?
Why do you think she is moving towards the "dark side"? I didn't get that at all from the sample chapter. What I took from it is that Mystra has recognized the error of her godly ways. It seems like she took too many into her fold who were not wholly devoted to her and her cause, but had their own agendas. She wants Elminster to recruit only those who will be as devoted to Mystra as he is and be as selfless as he has been.
Secondly, it appears that magic is in a sorry state in the current Realms and she is tasking Elminster with "preserving magic wherever and whenever you can". If you remember from the Making of a Mage series, one of Elminster's duties was to distribute magic items across the Realms so that people will find them and spread the use of magic. This is Mystra's mandate, spreading the use of magic. He did this quietly and in the shadows.
So it seems that she wants him to continue this and not go heralding her return. She is probably in a much weakened state which is why she needs him to start the process of spreading and preserving magic. It also seems like she never died but was diminished. Her words that "I am Mystra. I am magic" seems to prove that she can only die when magic dies. Hence there will always be a Mystra.
I see all this as a realigning of Mystra into the 4E Realms. No more will her Chosen be the world saving mega heroes. I see them as protectors and facilitators of magic across the Realms. I have said this in previous posts that Mystra should return and have to fight for her place in the Realms. This appears to be what she is having to do and I am happy about it. It makes for a much more compelling story. |
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Arcanus
Senior Scribe
485 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jun 2011 : 00:08:18
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| It's mask. |
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Eltheron
Senior Scribe
740 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jun 2011 : 01:36:03
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Maybe it's Talos/Gruumsh, because when it healed Elminster the two silver eyes turned into one! Heh! 
Seriously, though, I just don't see it as being Cyric or Shar. That seems like too much of a twist. I'm going to agree with those who think it's more of a return to old Mystra who was lawful neutral and not specifically a "good" goddess like Mystra-2. I imagine that her reference to other Chosen has more to do with balancing her good side with a few evil Chosen, and the reference to the Seven Sisters being a "mis-step" is likely about the same thing. The original reason for having daughters was to have Chosen that could handle the energies and stresses better, but they formed too close of a bond both with Mystra and each other. |
"The very best possible post-fourteenth-century Realms lets down those who love the specific, detailed social, political and magical situation, with its thousands of characters, developed over forty years, and want to learn more about it; and those who'd be open to a new one with equal depth, which there just isn't time to re-produce; and those repelled, some past the point of no return, by the bad-taste-and-plausibility gap of things done to the world when its guardianship was less careful."
--Faraer |
Edited by - Eltheron on 10 Jun 2011 01:36:27 |
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Aldrick
Senior Scribe
909 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jun 2011 : 04:24:03
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I could be wildly wrong about everything I said. I'm fully prepared to eat my words if that's the case.
However, I feel like there are too many red flags and warnings in the sample chapter to deny. People could be making the exact same mistake El himself is making - filled with surges of joy and happiness at the return of Mystra, and pushing away all warnings that point to a trap.
quote:
This almost had to be a trap, after all this time - yet, nay, nay, it was her, his Mystra! It was!
quote:
Amarune’s body lacked the feel for the Art that his aching old frame had possessed, but strain though he might, he could sense nothing false about what loomed before him. This was Mystra, though the heat in his mind remained a whispering echo of her full power.
quote:
Her love—or at least fondness—was in his head and all around him, But something was subtly different in it, a distance that had not been there once, or rather one that had grown since Midnight had ascended to replace the Mystra his far younger self had first touched and tasted. Gone was the Mystra whose mind would long ago have merged with his to let them converse wordlessly, thoughts flashing.
Something was rising in him, something urgent. Before he quite knew what it was, he felt a flash of confusion and wonder, alarm strangled by awe.
quote:
“It is. Yet the fall of Azoun heralded your newest task. It is time to do what Storm and Dove have both suggested. By any means you deem best—becoming their head or turning their leaders to my service—recruit Cormyr’s wizards of war. They must become the ready allies, helping hands, and spies for all my Chosen.”
All my Chosen?
Ah, Storm and Alassra, of course. If there were more, and Mystra desired him to know of them, she would reveal them . . .
quote:
Mystra—if it was Mystra—had drained much energy from his borrowed body but was now at work on steadying his mind, forcing back the roiling blue fires that had lurked there for nigh a hundred years.
...and of course, outside the story the most damning piece of evidence of all.
quote:
Ed adds a caveat to all readers, regarding the events in that sample chapter:
Please bear in mind that jumping to conclusions involves leaps into the unknown.
You know, just like Elminster was doing in the sample chapter. |
Edited by - Aldrick on 10 Jun 2011 04:27:20 |
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Caolin
Senior Scribe
768 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jun 2011 : 05:09:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Aldrick
I could be wildly wrong about everything I said. I'm fully prepared to eat my words if that's the case.
However, I feel like there are too many red flags and warnings in the sample chapter to deny. People could be making the exact same mistake El himself is making - filled with surges of joy and happiness at the return of Mystra, and pushing away all warnings that point to a trap.
quote:
This almost had to be a trap, after all this time - yet, nay, nay, it was her, his Mystra! It was!
quote:
Amarune’s body lacked the feel for the Art that his aching old frame had possessed, but strain though he might, he could sense nothing false about what loomed before him. This was Mystra, though the heat in his mind remained a whispering echo of her full power.
quote:
Her love—or at least fondness—was in his head and all around him, But something was subtly different in it, a distance that had not been there once, or rather one that had grown since Midnight had ascended to replace the Mystra his far younger self had first touched and tasted. Gone was the Mystra whose mind would long ago have merged with his to let them converse wordlessly, thoughts flashing.
Something was rising in him, something urgent. Before he quite knew what it was, he felt a flash of confusion and wonder, alarm strangled by awe.
quote:
“It is. Yet the fall of Azoun heralded your newest task. It is time to do what Storm and Dove have both suggested. By any means you deem best—becoming their head or turning their leaders to my service—recruit Cormyr’s wizards of war. They must become the ready allies, helping hands, and spies for all my Chosen.”
All my Chosen?
Ah, Storm and Alassra, of course. If there were more, and Mystra desired him to know of them, she would reveal them . . .
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Mystra—if it was Mystra—had drained much energy from his borrowed body but was now at work on steadying his mind, forcing back the roiling blue fires that had lurked there for nigh a hundred years.
...and of course, outside the story the most damning piece of evidence of all.
quote:
Ed adds a caveat to all readers, regarding the events in that sample chapter:
Please bear in mind that jumping to conclusions involves leaps into the unknown.
You know, just like Elminster was doing in the sample chapter.
Well, if it is an impostor I will be very very upset that they pulled a stunt like that. It might even drive me away from Realms novels for good. |
Edited by - Caolin on 10 Jun 2011 05:10:34 |
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Aldrick
Senior Scribe
909 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jun 2011 : 05:55:35
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Yes, well... I definitely wouldn't get my hopes up.
It seems to me that Ed in the sample chapter was deliberately attempting to cast doubt on whether or not it was really Mystra. After all, I don't think anyone really doubted Mystra would return in one form or another - I know I didn't. So, by attempting to cast doubt, Ed could be attempting to make things appear less obvious than they are... but I doubt that is the case, due to his warning about jumping to conclusions. I think the warning that he issued was to try and avoid having readers get their hearts broken over a false return of Mystra.
Naturally, we'll have to read more to find out the truth... and really, that's where this sample chapter really shines, it draws the reader in and makes them hungry for more.
Ultimately, I'm happy with either Mystra becoming more morally ambiguous (alignment shift), or another deity masquerading as Mystra. Cyric seems the most likely candidate followed by Shar. I'd rather see Cyric behind it because, well... Cyric has sucked since the moment he's ascended to divinity. He's marked with one failure after another, and is - to be the most generous possible - a joke. Even in his crowning moment of achievement - killing Mystra - he's viewed as a pawn of Shar, and immediately after his success he is imprisoned.
By pulling off something like this, getting free of his prison, manipulating Elminster, gaining his own "Chosen", and bringing the War Wizards of Cormyr under his influence (with the help of Elminster), he gains some much needed creditability. Though I'd be highly shocked if they'd actually allow him to be successful in the end. Most likely, he'd get free of his prison, and cause tons of problems. Elminster will realize that he's been taken for a ride, and have to work to stop the damage he's inflicted. When Cyric is freed he could ultimately be on the verge of ascending to the God of Magic, and that's when El pulls out his hero card and stops that from happening - perhaps by becoming the God of Magic himself.
That's some crazy and wild speculation on my part, though. |
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Arcanus
Senior Scribe
485 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jun 2011 : 15:39:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Caolin
quote:
Originally posted by Aldrick
I could be wildly wrong about everything I said. I'm fully prepared to eat my words if that's the case.
However, I feel like there are too many red flags and warnings in the sample chapter to deny. People could be making the exact same mistake El himself is making - filled with surges of joy and happiness at the return of Mystra, and pushing away all warnings that point to a trap.
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This almost had to be a trap, after all this time - yet, nay, nay, it was her, his Mystra! It was!
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Amarune�s body lacked the feel for the Art that his aching old frame had possessed, but strain though he might, he could sense nothing false about what loomed before him. This was Mystra, though the heat in his mind remained a whispering echo of her full power.
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Her love�or at least fondness�was in his head and all around him, But something was subtly different in it, a distance that had not been there once, or rather one that had grown since Midnight had ascended to replace the Mystra his far younger self had first touched and tasted. Gone was the Mystra whose mind would long ago have merged with his to let them converse wordlessly, thoughts flashing.
Something was rising in him, something urgent. Before he quite knew what it was, he felt a flash of confusion and wonder, alarm strangled by awe.
quote:
�It is. Yet the fall of Azoun heralded your newest task. It is time to do what Storm and Dove have both suggested. By any means you deem best�becoming their head or turning their leaders to my service�recruit Cormyr�s wizards of war. They must become the ready allies, helping hands, and spies for all my Chosen.�
All my Chosen?
Ah, Storm and Alassra, of course. If there were more, and Mystra desired him to know of them, she would reveal them . . .
quote:
Mystra�if it was Mystra�had drained much energy from his borrowed body but was now at work on steadying his mind, forcing back the roiling blue fires that had lurked there for nigh a hundred years.
...and of course, outside the story the most damning piece of evidence of all.
quote:
Ed adds a caveat to all readers, regarding the events in that sample chapter:
Please bear in mind that jumping to conclusions involves leaps into the unknown.
You know, just like Elminster was doing in the sample chapter.
Well, if it is an impostor I will be very very upset that they pulled a stunt like that. It might even drive me away from Realms novels for good.
Ditto |
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Eltheron
Senior Scribe
740 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jun 2011 : 16:13:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Aldrick
Yes, well... I definitely wouldn't get my hopes up.
It seems to me that Ed in the sample chapter was deliberately attempting to cast doubt on whether or not it was really Mystra. After all, I don't think anyone really doubted Mystra would return in one form or another - I know I didn't. So, by attempting to cast doubt, Ed could be attempting to make things appear less obvious than they are... but I doubt that is the case, due to his warning about jumping to conclusions. I think the warning that he issued was to try and avoid having readers get their hearts broken over a false return of Mystra.
Naturally, we'll have to read more to find out the truth... and really, that's where this sample chapter really shines, it draws the reader in and makes them hungry for more.
Ultimately, I'm happy with either Mystra becoming more morally ambiguous (alignment shift), or another deity masquerading as Mystra. Cyric seems the most likely candidate followed by Shar. I'd rather see Cyric behind it because, well... Cyric has sucked since the moment he's ascended to divinity. He's marked with one failure after another, and is - to be the most generous possible - a joke. Even in his crowning moment of achievement - killing Mystra - he's viewed as a pawn of Shar, and immediately after his success he is imprisoned.
By pulling off something like this, getting free of his prison, manipulating Elminster, gaining his own "Chosen", and bringing the War Wizards of Cormyr under his influence (with the help of Elminster), he gains some much needed creditability. Though I'd be highly shocked if they'd actually allow him to be successful in the end. Most likely, he'd get free of his prison, and cause tons of problems. Elminster will realize that he's been taken for a ride, and have to work to stop the damage he's inflicted. When Cyric is freed he could ultimately be on the verge of ascending to the God of Magic, and that's when El pulls out his hero card and stops that from happening - perhaps by becoming the God of Magic himself.
That's some crazy and wild speculation on my part, though.
The biggest problem I see with it turning out to be Cyric or Shar is that it wouldn't be seen just as a creative/writing choice. It would be seen on a bigger level: as a message to the reader, a sort of "fooled you again, you chumps!" I don't think they can risk that, not again.
If the editorial team is smart, and I think they are, they will want to appease old fans of Mystra and bring them into the fold (at least a little bit). Too many were put off by the numerous deity changes in 4E. In my view, the "bringing back Mystra" plot is entirely geared toward getting old Mystra fans back. No one believes for a minute that Elminster is really going to die, so the main hook for this trilogy is more about Mystra's return.
Now, with the world the way it is post-Spellplague, they can't just pop old Mystra back into the Realms exactly the way she was in 3E. That wouldn't make the Mystra haters happy, and it probably wouldn't make Mystra fans happy either. So honestly, I think they're really going to change up Mystra in some big ways. They'll bring herback slowly and not completely, and she won't be the same Mystra we recognize. She will be darker. And she might be something more akin to a vestige until 5E.
Just my $0.02.
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"The very best possible post-fourteenth-century Realms lets down those who love the specific, detailed social, political and magical situation, with its thousands of characters, developed over forty years, and want to learn more about it; and those who'd be open to a new one with equal depth, which there just isn't time to re-produce; and those repelled, some past the point of no return, by the bad-taste-and-plausibility gap of things done to the world when its guardianship was less careful."
--Faraer |
Edited by - Eltheron on 10 Jun 2011 16:22:10 |
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Arcanus
Senior Scribe
485 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jun 2011 : 17:06:16
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| If it is Mystra, then I think that it's pretty clear that she will be changed radically. Ed's sample chapter describes her as being more distant to El. Maybe it will be more of a return to the original Mystryl rather than the latest (Midnight) Mystra. |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3738 Posts |
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Aldrick
Senior Scribe
909 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jun 2011 : 18:52:26
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Eltheron-
Those were nearly my exact thoughts before I read the sample chapter, and I expressed them as such on the WotC forums.
I was basically thinking: "Sigh. Here we go again. WotC has made Ed write another Elminster book, and they are doing exactly what I expected them to do - bring back Mystra. No big shock. Ugh. ...and they really did turn El into magical ash. Oh, for the love of..."
Cue several days passing. I finally decide to force myself to read the sample chapter (it's free, and I could quit if I hated it). After I'm done I'm shocked to find that:
1. I actually liked it, despite going into it with MAJOR bias.
2. I couldn't believe how much Ed's writing has improved over the years, and not just improved - it was pretty amazing. I found myself actually wanting to buy the book! Me! Of all people!
If it were not for the knowledge that Mystra / El fans would march on WotC headquarters with torches and pitchforks in hand... well... I'd have even fewer doubts. My initial reaction was exactly like your own: "WotC is trying to pull those upset with all the 4E changes to the Realms back into the setting by returning Mystra. Don't they realize that this is doomed to failure, and that a single token gesture isn't going to appease anyone? After all, the time jump is what made people the most angry, along with the mangling of lore... there is no way they can repair that by bringing Mystra back."
I would have walked away from the sample, believing Ed was deliberately attempting to implant doubts about the authenticity of Mystra. ...except for the warning he gave in his Q&A thread: "Please bear in mind that jumping to conclusions involves leaps into the unknown."
That caused me to raise my eyebrows, believing that he was attempting to give some forewarning to the fans of Mystra that all was not as it seemed, in order to blunt the heartbreak / backlash that would surely come.
Ironically, all of this makes me more eager to read the novel to discover what happens for myself. So, if that was Ed's intention with his comment - bravo. I've fallen for your dirty, dirty tricks. Bravo. |
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Eltheron
Senior Scribe
740 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jun 2011 : 19:26:02
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It's something of a mixture of hope and dread, isn't it? Heh!
Hope that it'll all turn out the way we want, and dread that it won't.
And that's definitely the way to hook a wider audience.
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"The very best possible post-fourteenth-century Realms lets down those who love the specific, detailed social, political and magical situation, with its thousands of characters, developed over forty years, and want to learn more about it; and those who'd be open to a new one with equal depth, which there just isn't time to re-produce; and those repelled, some past the point of no return, by the bad-taste-and-plausibility gap of things done to the world when its guardianship was less careful."
--Faraer |
Edited by - Eltheron on 10 Jun 2011 19:27:02 |
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Bury Elminster Deep (Sample chapter)
