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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
 Posted - 16 Feb 2011 : 02:42:52
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So Ed's House Tsornyl lore got me thinking about a clan of elven vamps. And I've always wondered about Kanchelsis. I've read all the scant lore to be found on this power, but I'm afraid we will never learn the full story behind this "dark secret of the Seldarine." A shame that. I've always been intrigued by that story, even going so far as to use Kanchelsis as an alias before. What I'm wondering is, how can I use the Rake as patron of this elven coven? If they have been around for elven generations picking the best and brightest of their living relatives to recieve the "dark gift," how powerful do you think they could become? I don't even really have a goal in mind for them. What might they seek to accomplish? Why might they choose that "life"-style? How do you think the Eldreth Veluuthra would see such a group? I know how they feel about the fey'ri, but members of the group include a werestag and a lich. Would they be accepted? Any ideas are welcome. I have nothing more than a vague concept that I'd like to develop.
P.S. any homebrew lore on this enigmatic demi-god would be welcome as well, there is precious little canon to be found.
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Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
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Edited by - Fellfire on 16 Feb 2011 02:49:05
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2011 : 03:53:55
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| Are we talking abut the vampire "god" from the 2nd ed Monster Mythology book? I could see them as being secret defenders of elven culture and purity, sort of like Maheret from Anne Rice's Vampire Chronicles. They might be grooming certain members of their clan (or even worthy members of other elven families) to join them in a sort of vampire Illuminati. They might also be lorekeepers, preserving elven history and heritage, artifacts, etc. Perhaps they are allied with the Seldarine, but can't be openly welcomed. Or alternately, they might have allied to Araushnee and were cast out after her fall. In that case, they might be trying to atone for their mistake by attempting to prove their loyalty, or they might be secretly trying to undermine the elven gods for spurning them. These are just a few ideas. |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188
Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2011 : 04:04:38
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| That's the one, also known as Mastraacht. |
Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2011 : 04:57:24
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| Thanks Alystra. From my research it appears he was created by Carl Sargeant for Monster Mythology, but maybe Ed has the scoop. I hope so. I'd love the details on the Seldarine involvement in his "curse." I'm also finding some references to him in the Pathfinder setting, but can't nail it down. Anyone? |
Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2011 : 04:58:21
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Kanchelsis was created by Carl Sargent for Monstrous Mythology. He was not mentioned in Libris Mortis, but he gets a mention in Fiendish Codex I and DRAGON #359.
It's important to note, too, that not every god in Monster Mythology exists in the FORGOTTEN REALMS. For example, Juiblex, the Elder Elemental God, Chronepsis, Falazure, and Nebelun the Meddler are all considered aspects of other deities in the Realms [Juiblex and the EGG are replaced by Ghaunadaur, Chronepsis and Falazure are aspects of Null, and Nebelun is an aspect of Gond].
It could be that some vampires of Toril revere, or at least know of, Kanchelsis, who has ties to the Seldarine and might have a foothold in Realmspace based on that. It could also be that he's considered an aspect of Malar, Cyric, or some other god of bloodlust or murder.
Monster Mythology says that Kanchelsis is known as Mastraacht "in some worlds," but does not specify which worlds these are. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2011 : 05:08:38
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| He is very poorly documented. That's about all I can find about him anywhere except for another brief mention in Dungeon #123 in the adventure "The Quicksilver Hourglass" specifically a group of evil undead masterminds known as The Union of Eclipses. I found some decent homebrew lore (I assume)here... http://132.209.40.23/w4/campagne/HTML/FR_DG/Kanchelsis.html , involving Lamatsu, another big unknown to me. It's not enough. I want more! |
Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2011 : 06:17:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
Well, it's possible he has ties to Ravenloft, possibly even to Strahd himself. Which means that he might also have a connection to Jandar Sunstone, and could have entered the Realms from that route. This is just off the top of my head, mind you.
I'd agree with that.
Given the all-encompassing nature of the 2e planar framework, it's entirely possible that echoes of Kanchelsis [or, Mastraacht for that matter], have found their way to dark realms throughout the multiverse, where the power of vampires is strongest. Like RAVENLOFT, for example. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2011 : 17:32:48
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| I planned to use this guy when importing the Blood of Vol from Eberron into the Realms. He and Erandis would have some tragic romantic story. But first there are not enough vampires in FR to have a god, and his name is to similar to a former ManU player, my players would laugh at that. |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2011 : 19:20:19
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I don't 'get' a god of undead.
Gods and mortals need each other, almost like a company and its consumers. Doesn't matter if they like each other, all that matters is that both provide something the other needs: Deities are literally 'selling' Real-estate in the afterlife for the cost of soul/radiant energy (thus making Chosen, Saints, demi-powers, Fiends, etc... little more then Realtors).
Of what use is a god and a creature-that-never-plans-on-dying to each other? 
Perhaps the undead may get something out of it (some divine aid or inspiration), but what does the deity get? I think we have firmly established that 'gods' are NOT 'good', but rather, self-serving (a god with a good portfolio is only serving itself by furthering the cause of good, ergo it is adding to its own power by its actions - that's called AMBITION).
But all the morality (and its RW baggage) aside - please tell me what the god gets out of it? ESPECIALLY a deity like that, who is based in evil! The very existence of the vampire (or whatever) contributes to the god's portfolio - the worshiping part is completely unnecessary for the power-exchange.
I just don't get it.
NOW, on the flip-side... I LOVE the idea that there is a hierarchy to the vampires (something we see in almost every depiction of them, even in comics). If Kanchelsis is the 'Father of All Vampires', and the head vampire of every world (and there should be one, unless the world is a savage place) has to pay him homage, then it makes sense to me in that kanchelsis is just part of the normal Vampiric hierarchy, and if every world has it's 'Vampire king', then Kanchelsis would be like the vampire Emperor.
Its not so much they worship him, but rather respect him as 'the guy in-charge'. Going back to my original analogy of companies: If regular vamps are the guys in the mail room, then Kanchy is like the CEO. Its more like they pay homage to him out of fear, then any sort of religious aspect. That I can get on board with. 
HOWEVER, getting back to the topic, I really doubt an Elven Vampire would have anything to do with Kanchelsis. The demi-humans seem to be predominantly 'covered' by their own pantheon, UNLESS they make an active choice to worship outside of it. An Elven vamp will still contribute to Kanchelsis with its existence, UNLESS Kanchelsis only handles human Vampirism (and there are several other forms). We know the drow have a Undead Goddess, so if anything I think any Elf would more likely fall under Kiaransalee's sway then Kanchelsis.
Hmmmm... those names sound good together... could be something there... could be shadowy stuff has an affinity for the letter 'k' (and didn't Shar have something to do with Karsus in those final 3e modules?)
Probably just my imagination... but I won't be eating Special 'K' for breakfast anymore.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 17 Feb 2011 15:40:02 |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2011 : 19:50:20
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MT, are you familiar with the Book of Cain from WoD? I'd see him as sort of like that, but without all the Judeo-Christian trappings. The First vampire, and therefore the patron of all others. Perhaps not so much a god, but a father-figure. Think of it as a form of ancestor-worship.
Hmm, you may have stumbled onto his connection to the elven pantheon. Perhaps he and Kiaransalle are an item/are allied? That could be a benefit to both, I think. Her undead followers are mostly banshees (and female), while he's got the vampires nailed down (pardon the pun). If he DOES have some sort of tie to the elven pantheon, it would certainly explain why there are so many elven ones. Maybe there was a secret cult of elves that followed him.... |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188
Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
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Firestorm
Senior Scribe
Canada
826 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2011 : 00:45:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
Are we talking abut the vampire "god" from the 2nd ed Monster Mythology book? I could see them as being secret defenders of elven culture and purity, sort of like Maheret from Anne Rice's Vampire Chronicles. They might be grooming certain members of their clan (or even worthy members of other elven families) to join them in a sort of vampire Illuminati. They might also be lorekeepers, preserving elven history and heritage, artifacts, etc. Perhaps they are allied with the Seldarine, but can't be openly welcomed. Or alternately, they might have allied to Araushnee and were cast out after her fall. In that case, they might be trying to atone for their mistake by attempting to prove their loyalty, or they might be secretly trying to undermine the elven gods for spurning them. These are just a few ideas.
A vampire Illuminati exists in Michael Romkey's vampire books :) |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Erdrick Stormedge
Learned Scribe
132 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2011 : 02:59:06
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The lore of this storied house of twilight tis long, indeed. In what age, in what year of Faerun's history would Ye preferest to hear their tale?
quote:
Originally posted by Fellfire
So Ed's House Tsornyl lore got me thinking about a clan of elven vamps. And I've always wondered about Kanchelsis. I've read all the scant lore to be found on this power, but I'm afraid we will never learn the full story behind this "dark secret of the Seldarine." A shame that. I've always been intrigued by that story, even going so far as to use Kanchelsis as an alias before. What I'm wondering is, how can I use the Rake as patron of this elven coven? If they have been around for elven generations picking the best and brightest of their living relatives to recieve the "dark gift," how powerful do you think they could become? I don't even really have a goal in mind for them. What might they seek to accomplish? Why might they choose that "life"-style? How do you think the Eldreth Veluuthra would see such a group? I know how they feel about the fey'ri, but members of the group include a werestag and a lich. Would they be accepted? Any ideas are welcome. I have nothing more than a vague concept that I'd like to develop.
P.S. any homebrew lore on this enigmatic demi-god would be welcome as well, there is precious little canon to be found.
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2011 : 04:22:08
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| @ Stormedge, I'd be interested in hearing all of it, good Scribe. Feel free to PM or e-mail me as well. |
Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
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Galuf the Dwarf
Senior Scribe
USA
512 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2011 : 05:36:38
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| I take it having Kanchelsis as an aspect of Orcus would be a little on the rediculous side? |
Galuf's Baldur's Gate NPC stats: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8823
Galuf's 3.5 Ed. Cleric Domains: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=14036
Galuf's Homebrew 4th Edition Races: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=13787
Galuf's Homebrew Specialty Priest PrCs: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=14353
Galuf's Forgotten Realms Heralds and Allies thread: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8766 |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2011 : 06:25:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
Yeah, that wouldn't make much sense. Now, Grazz't on the other hand.... Perhaps....
Kanchelsis as an aspect of Tenebrous, on the other hand, raises some intriguing possibilities. Perhaps the undead Orcus progressed through a series of undeath states -- assuming various roles and aspects for a time, like Kanchelsis -- before returning to his former position of power. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2011 : 12:29:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
ManU? not familiar with that. Explain?
Manchester United, a football club |
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2011 : 12:43:48
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| Here's a shot in the dark, Sage. Do you know how to get in touch with the esteemed theologian, Mr. Sargent, himself? My momma always said, "Vampire Lords are ornery..." No wait, that's not it. "If you want the details, go to the source." That's what she said. |
Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
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Edited by - Fellfire on 17 Feb 2011 12:58:10 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2011 : 13:37:10
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| Hmmm. I've got an old email of his from when he and I used to chatter along with other PLANESCAPE fans on the Realms of Evil website. I'm not sure whether it's still valid, but I'll send it along to you anyway. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2011 : 16:28:06
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While looking at stuff for this site I looked around at various Vampire 'settings' and found out that Marvel Comics have bought heavily into this Vampire craze with a WoD-like 'Vampire Illuminati'.
I guess what Dr. Strange did (with the Darkhold) didn't stick. 
On the bright side, I discovered some pretty cool 'Vamp-Marvel' artwork (I have no-idea if it was used anywhere - it may have just been promotional), and the one of Ironman looking in the mirror was classic. 
Anyhow, I have always wanted to create a Vampire hierarchy within FR (I assume there is one, at least in my Realms), but never got much further then some basic thoughts. I like both the Marvel Comics and WoD takes, but I would combine them. The Marvel Wiki on the matter talks about Varnae, but neglects to mention Lilith (the first human vampire) who is Marvel canon (I forget where this is mentioned - it may have been in that vampire "What if...").
Now, in my own over-cosmology, I have likened Lilith to Lolth (I couldn't resist the similarity in names). This means if I were to continue this train of thought (combining those two settings with D&D), Elven Vampires CAME FIRST! 
Pure Homebrew Conjecture:
Since I use Chthon already to symbolize chaos, I can theorize that it was he (it) that corrupted Lolth/Lilith and got her to turn on the Seldarine. Then after her fall, he granted her a boon - a bit of his power (which lead to her re-ascendance), which allowed her to use her (new) fangs to 'bless' other individuals (pass on the curse). At this time, Lolth was unaware of humans (to whom Elven vamps later passed the curse).
So Lilith, the 'first woman' (but not necessarily human) can create uber-vamps with her bite, and she probably bit Cain (in the WoD Earth) herself, which started that chain there. We can further conjecture that Cain did not die, but rather is now being worshiped as Kanchelsis/Mastraacht on various worlds. At some point she must have realized that she was granting too much power with this ability - Vapiric Drow are insanely powerful - and she 'loaned' this aspect of her porfolio out to other deities from various racial pantheons (like Kanchelsis/Cain for the humans, and Kiaransalee for the Elves). She still has the ability to transfer the curse with her bite, though, but uses it to 'bless' only her most favored servants.
I don't know if she assisted Kiaransalee's rise - it may have been Chthon tampering with reality again. As for Orcus - I have always associated him with Gruumsh (probably the name). I could further conjecture that Lolth bit an Orc* - probably while in the Abyss - and created the Uber-demon (who was already re-born fiendish from his life while mortal) Orcus, which is how he got his status as both a deity and undead.
Meanwhile, back on (Marvel) Earth, the Atlantean dark wizards were given The Darkhold by Chthon, which allowed them to curse other mortals directly in much the same manner; Cain may have also had something to do with this. However, I think Cain's involvement on Marvel-Earth came later, when he personally bit Vlad Tepes, and the curse mutated into a virus-like pathogen (thus fixing a bad lore-hole with the Blade movies, which doesn't match the Marvel continuity). Vlad was the only vampire to have been born of the Varnae/Atlantean line, and also directly bitten by one of Lilith's 'children' (and hence his uber-status in folklore). That being the case, Varnae recognized Dracula's superior heritage and stepped down as Earth's lead vamp.
So you see, not only do I try to 'fix' FR lore gaffs, I also try to fix all the holes in D&D's 'greater cosmology', AND am insane enough to try and marry it all to EVER OTHER SETTING, while also trying to fix those setting's continuity glitches.
And people wonder why I mumble to myself....
*Bare in mind that my own Elven pre-history has it where the Orcs were the original Svartálfar (dark elves), so there were reasons behind Lolth biting Orcus... and we could even further conjecture on who HE was... |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 17 Feb 2011 18:44:28 |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2011 : 17:52:51
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What about draconic vampires being first, Dracula was in the Order of the Dragon
I like Pathfinder's take about the Azlanti queen Zura, now a demon lord |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2011 : 18:16:29
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MT- I believe Lilith is mentioned in one of the MU Handbooks, under "ancient beings" or something like that. Cain in WoD was believed dead, but it was never proven one way or another- he simply disappeared, IIRC. And you forgot about kiaransalee's consort in Threnody, that might very well have been Kanchelsis. Which would make them the King and Queen of the Undead.
quale, I like that bit about the dgaon vamps being first, perhaps that's more faluzure's venue, though. |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188
Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2011 : 19:06:32
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I am fairly unfamiliar with WoD - I briefly played a Nosferatu in a Masquerade game, and have a couple of the related settings as well (Werewolf, Mage). I didn't know Lilith was mentioned. 
Interestingly, Lilith was made from the tail bone of Adam, rather then a rib, which has certain... draconic... implications. 
Hmmmm... I am looking at Varnae right now and he seems like a demon... which in 4e are corrupted elementals, so I could interpret that to mean that Tanar'ri are corrupted Elementals, while other 'demons' are made from other beings who have been corrupted (presumably by Cthon in my cosmology).
He also looks like something that would be related to the creator races, and specifically the Batrachi. Hmmmmmm... shoe-horns nicely with the 'sunken empires' (Atlantis) thing.
Couple that with Quale's interesting suggestion of Draconic vampires, and some of my own musings about the proto-world that existed before the worlds (Prime material) were torn asunder, and I think we may be on a very interesting path. I have to think on this more - there's definitely some VERY usable stuff here...
And once again, I can relate this all back to the 'Edwardian model' of my over-cosmology - EARLY vapirism appears to have been a form of Undying, rather then undeath, which became corrupted later (Corrupted Corruption... wrap your minds around THAT ). If the universe does revolve around two polar opposites - Light (Life) and Dark (Death), then we can even say that Vampirism was an early 'Doomsday Weapon' created by the side of Darkness. I guess I should look into the WoD mythos more.
Asmodeus definitely plays a part in all this - he IS 'The Serpent', and is related to dragons, and his association with Lilith is a given. Perhaps he was the one responsible for the mutation of original Vapirism into other forms. My version of Cthon wants to destroy the universe, but asmodeus wants to RULE IT. It would make a great deal of sense if Asmodeus was the one to corrupt the workings of the Corrupter.
Also, Quale: I've been meaning to get back to the Faerie thread (or maybe I'll just contribute to the new Feywild one). Some of this may relate (in a 'Genesis' kind of way), and I found a new source for inspiration - The Book of Enoch! |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2011 : 20:25:14
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| Uh, no, that was in Marvel Universe Handbook series, not WoD. Sorry, MT, thought I stated it plainly. She's under the listing of some of their oldest "gods/immortals/whatever" type characters. I don't know if she was ever mentioned in WoD, as I only played a little of both werewolf (which has little to do with the vampires beyond as enemies) and Masquerade, and I don't recall seeing her in either one. |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188
Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2011 : 20:52:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Couple that with Quale's interesting suggestion of Draconic vampires, and some of my own musings about the proto-world that existed before the worlds (Prime material) were torn asunder, and I think we may be on a very interesting path. I have to think on this more - there's definitely some VERY usable stuff here...
When I thought about Dracula and the Order of the Dragon before, I imagined the process of initiation through their ranks similar to the defiler transformation in Dark Sun, plus vampirism and more shapechanging powers.
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Some of this may relate (in a 'Genesis' kind of way), and I found a new source for inspiration - The Book of Enoch!
Hebrew mythology is really underused for D&D, the nephilim were my long time favourites. They have them in PF now. |
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Erdrick Stormedge
Learned Scribe
132 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2011 : 21:26:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Interestingly, Lilith was made from the tail bone of Adam, rather then a rib, which has certain... draconic... implications.
Source?
Fellfire, I'll get that House Tsornyl stuff posted soon, sorry for the delay! |
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Kanchelsis and Elven Vampires
