| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Fellfire |
Posted - 16 Feb 2011 : 02:42:52
So Ed's House Tsornyl lore got me thinking about a clan of elven vamps. And I've always wondered about Kanchelsis. I've read all the scant lore to be found on this power, but I'm afraid we will never learn the full story behind this "dark secret of the Seldarine." A shame that. I've always been intrigued by that story, even going so far as to use Kanchelsis as an alias before. What I'm wondering is, how can I use the Rake as patron of this elven coven? If they have been around for elven generations picking the best and brightest of their living relatives to recieve the "dark gift," how powerful do you think they could become? I don't even really have a goal in mind for them. What might they seek to accomplish? Why might they choose that "life"-style? How do you think the Eldreth Veluuthra would see such a group? I know how they feel about the fey'ri, but members of the group include a werestag and a lich. Would they be accepted? Any ideas are welcome. I have nothing more than a vague concept that I'd like to develop.
P.S. any homebrew lore on this enigmatic demi-god would be welcome as well, there is precious little canon to be found. |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| The Sage |
Posted - 11 Mar 2011 : 02:13:01
quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
Sage, did you read the arc where he took possession of T'Challa and turned him against Storm a couple of years ago? I liked that arc- especially the scene with her and that young Hindi mutant (I forget his name) using a colossal hurricane to shoot the Blackbird halfway across the world. Wow, no wonder she's considered Omega-class!!
Hmmm, not that I know of. Do you recall the exact year? [Or, did it occur in the Black Panther's own book?] |
| Alystra Illianniis |
Posted - 11 Mar 2011 : 01:08:38
Sage, did you read the arc where he took possession of T'Challa and turned him against Storm a couple of years ago? I liked that arc- especially the scene with her and that young Hindi mutant (I forget his name) using a colossal hurricane to shoot the Blackbird halfway across the world. Wow, no wonder she's considered Omega-class!! |
| The Sage |
Posted - 10 Mar 2011 : 14:53:00
quote:
Originally posted by Fellfire
Is this the same Shadow King that gave Psylocke her shadow abilities after she was eviscerated by Sabretooth? I remember reading and enjoying that arc very much, (Psylocke and Archangel are among my favorite X-Men) and the manga-influenced art was great, but it was a long time ago. I seem to remember a Crimson Curse (of the Shadow King)?
No, that was the demon Kuragari, of the Crimson Dawn. The Shadow King is a much older enemy of the X-Men.
|
| Fellfire |
Posted - 10 Mar 2011 : 12:51:23
Is this the same Shadow King that gave Psylocke her shadow abilities after she was eviscerated by Sabretooth? I remember reading and enjoying that arc very much, (Psylocke and Archangel are among my favorite X-Men) and the manga-influenced art was great, but it was a long time ago. I seem to remember a Crimson Curse (of the Shadow King)? |
| Markustay |
Posted - 10 Mar 2011 : 05:29:56
I remember him! Amahl Farouk! 
Wonder if we can connect him to Toril's Shadow king somehow (I never read that novel, unfortunately)?
I also edited my last post... twice...
Some interesting correlations I am getting between Hecate/Selūne, and Shar/Lilith. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 10 Mar 2011 : 05:00:51
quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
I like it. Debauched corruption- hmm, that could be corruption of power, too, yes? Twisted magic, perhaps, or the decay of moral authority as well....
I'm thinking something like the X-Men's Shadow King... who takes perverse pleasure in the rotting of human souls and the decay of societies on Earth. [I recall the image of the Shadow King {from the "Muir Isle Saga"} sipping from an exotic goblet of dark liquid "squeezed," I suppose, from decayed human misery and rotting souls.]
"The Rake" aspect of Kanchelsis, I think, combined with Moander's "Corruption" domain, would be somewhat similar to this -- taking particular delight in corrupting the very nature of life. |
| Fellfire |
Posted - 10 Mar 2011 : 04:42:13
"I like it. Debauched corruption- hmm, that could be corruption of power, too, yes? Twisted magic, perhaps, or the decay of moral authority as well...."
Yes, debauchery and moral decay go hand in hand. Kanchelsis would definitely have been standing in line for some table-scraps if he could have indirectly arranged to have Moander diminished. I like this. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 10 Mar 2011 : 04:35:22
quote:
Originally posted by Erdrick Stormedge
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Interestingly, Lilith was made from the tail bone of Adam, rather then a rib, which has certain... draconic... implications. 
Source?
I'll find it - sorry, just saw the rest of this thread now. All I could find was this bit-quote:
God then formed Lilith, the first woman, just as He had formed Adam, except that He used filth and sediment instead of pure dust. From Adam's union with this demoness, and with another like her named Naamah, Tubal Cain's sister, sprang Asmodeus and innumerable demons that still plague mankind. Many generations later, Lilith and Naamah came to Solomon's judgement seat, disguised as 'harlots of Jerusalem'.
Which doesn't mention the tailbone of Adam (I remember reading that in a book of Jewish folklore years ago). I will keep checking around.
Still pretty interesting though - some of that from THIS SITE is usable, as well as THIS ONE.quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
While looking at stuff for this site I looked around at various Vampire 'settings' and found out that Marvel Comics have bought heavily into this Vampire craze with a WoD-like 'Vampire Illuminati'.
I love the twists on Marvel-lore you've composed here, Markus. Of course, I noticed you missed a few important points about the Darkhold from the 90's run of Doctor Strange, but you've got the gist of it.
Yeah, I didn't follow that whole storyline with Morbius, but I kept track of the vampires through other sources.
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
There's two Liliths in the Marvel Universe -- the first being the daughter of Dracula, and the second is regarded as the "Mother of All Demons" and often plagued Ghost Rider II and the rest of the Midnight Sons during the mid-90's.
I always get the second liltih confused with Selene, the Black Queen (who was some sort of ancient, vampire-like being as well).
I may take some of that folklore and change Lilith into the 'mother of all vampires', and tie her to Varnae somehow... not sure how though. Both have obvious demonic connections..
Maybe Varnae was her father, and the story about the tailbone (or 'filth' in that thing I quoted above) was actually an allegory for a Primordial Demon (like an Ultraloth).
I was thinking Batrachi for Varnae, but he could be a slaad lord, or even a primordial Shadavari.
EDIT: And now I just found a connection between Lilith and Pazuzu... this just gets better and better... she got around, mythologically (versions of her in several mythos). Supposedly people called upon Pazuzu to defend against her, which infers they are enemies.
She is also considered by some to be a primordial 'goddess of the night' - another interesting connection we can make, this time to Shar.
EDIT2: In Astrology there is something called 'Dark moon lilith'... hmmm hmmm hmmmm.... Lilith is also apparently the name of an 'invisble' black moon that circles the Earth (hypothetically, of course)
Lilith and Hecate... the dark and light Moons... curiouser and curiouser... |
| Alystra Illianniis |
Posted - 10 Mar 2011 : 04:00:43
I like it. Debauched corruption- hmm, that could be corruption of power, too, yes? Twisted magic, perhaps, or the decay of moral authority as well.... |
| Fellfire |
Posted - 10 Mar 2011 : 02:33:03
It would indeed, Sage. We may be on to something there. Thoughts, anybody else, on this hypothetical "what if" scenario? |
| The Sage |
Posted - 10 Mar 2011 : 02:22:31
quote:
Originally posted by Fellfire
The Corpse of Moander scroll got me thinking, perhaps Kanchelsis took part of Moander's portfolio. Corruption (of the soul.) That might make sense if Kanchelsis was in league with the Darkbringer and it was his goal all along to corrupt/enslave/seduce the elves of Tsornyl/Darkwatch and take that bit of power from him in a divine doublecross.
Hmmm. This is interesting.
What about if the "corruptive" aspect of Moander's portfolio was taken up by "the Rake" half of Kanchelsis? It is said that "the Rake" portion of Kanchelsis values "unspeakable depravities." And the rotting/corruption aspect of Moander's portfolio would certainly lead to some intriguing natural conceptions of rotten depravity in locations across the Realms.
Kanchelsis may have sought to assume that part of Moander's portfolio for that reason. |
| Fellfire |
Posted - 10 Mar 2011 : 01:47:23
The Corpse of Moander scroll got me thinking, perhaps Kanchelsis took part of Moander's portfolio. Corruption (of the soul.) That might make sense if Kanchelsis was in league with the Darkbringer and it was his goal all along to corrupt/enslave/seduce the elves of Tsornyl/Darkwatch and take that bit of power from him in a divine doublecross. |
| Fellfire |
Posted - 07 Mar 2011 : 04:25:10
I've yet to put pen to paper on this one, but here is what I'm thinking. A group of elves, possibly House Tsornyl (now gold elves,) contracted Moander's Curse, a horrible rotting affliction. Somehow Kanchelsis discovered this and offered them succor, in the form of vampirism. I think I am going to borrow from the Elven Vampire from Ravenloft. I'm thinking that they will not be affected by sunlight and will have the "black thumb" that causes their touch to kill all plant-life, and the ability to pass on their "gift." I really need to sit down and get this all sorted out. I get distracted so easily. I had hoped that Mr. Sargent would make himself available for questions regarding Kanchelsis, but I'll probably just end up twisting the lore or making it up to suit my own needs, as I often do.
edit: Although, perhaps the "black thumb" is a symptom of Moander's Curse and not the vampirism. I also would like to keep the shapechange ability, but only to poison mist like the Ravenloft drow vamp and not bats or wolves. It's a lot of head-scratching and I need to make the time. |
| Alystra Illianniis |
Posted - 07 Mar 2011 : 04:13:40
Fellfire, Ive got a magical artifact you can make use of if you like. The Ring of the Daywalker- it allows a vampire to circumvent most of the natural weaknesses of vampires, such as sunlight, fire, and holy water, and also allows them to disguise their undead aura and vampiric appearance, to look like a mortal even to undead detection. It need not be said that this is a VERY powerful unique artifact. It was created by a cabal of powerful vampire wizards, who promptly set to killing each other to possess it. Thus it is something of a legend among vampires, and all of them seek to find and possess it. |
| Fellfire |
Posted - 05 Mar 2011 : 18:55:33
What a great resource you've discovered there. Thanks! |
| Fellfire |
Posted - 05 Mar 2011 : 18:49:14
That is the best one as far as I'm concerned. The adventure City of the Spider Queen was full of drow vamps, that just had the Vampire template applied to them, I think. That was a great mod all around though. |
| Zireael |
Posted - 05 Mar 2011 : 18:29:24
I found this: http://www.lomion.de/cmm/vampdrow.php
Is it Ravenloft-only, or what? How to convert it to 3e? |
| Fellfire |
Posted - 05 Mar 2011 : 16:56:36
Drow vampires, yes I can see them in Kanchelsis' court. Very elegant and refined yet capable of a spectacular orgies of blood-letting. I've been toying with the idea of using the Lifedrinker PrC from The Book of Vile Darkness for a drow vampire...
"Amid the ranks of the undead, the vampires are some of the most feared creatures that stalk the night. Yet even those cursed with vampirism have those that they respect and fear. One such secretive group has many names, but most often they are called lifedrinkers.
Lifedrinkers are vampires who have been undead for a very long time, honing their evil abilities to the fullest. They focus on their inherent ability to feed upon the living. Vampire wizards, sorcerers, and clerics make the best lifedrinkers, for the primary ability of the lifedrinker is to turn life energy and blood stolen from another into magical power." -pp.63
Also, if you haven't read the Coldfire trilogy by C.S. Friedman, I would highly recommend it. One of the main characters Gerald Tarrant a.k.a The Hunter inspired this thought. One of the best sci-fi/fantasy trilogies of all time, if you ask me. |
| Zireael |
Posted - 05 Mar 2011 : 13:09:41
Any ideas about drow vampires? |
| Alystra Illianniis |
Posted - 22 Feb 2011 : 04:22:16
One word- Yikes!!! |
| Fellfire |
Posted - 22 Feb 2011 : 04:15:05
I found this, and while I am not overly enamored with it, there are parts I think I can use. Especially the rotting affliction could definitely tie in Moander and House Tsornyl.
Bloodlich
The Bloodlich, or Sangrolu is truly an abomination; a merging of the Lich and the Vampire. Legends of the Sangrolu's' creation abound in the tomes of long-dead sages, but most of them agree that the first Sangrolu was a awesome Vampire called Zolhkaar who wanted to escape the bounds of the night and forever leave the dominion of Kanchelsis, the God of Vampires.
Sangrolu are created when a Vampire creates a variant of the black potion used to turn a mortal wizard into a Lich, and drinks it. Vampires that imbibe this dark potion must still succeed a Fort save, as must a mortal. However, failure does not indicate death, but rather an eternal curse of decay that can only be slowed by the ingestion of blood.
Thus, there are two types of Sangrolu, Broken and True. True Sangrolu are possibly the most powerful and sophisticated undead. They retain their previous vampiric appearance, and do not have the appearance of walking corpses. Broken Sangrolu are horrid creatures of tight, rotted flesh shot through with fat, black veins and exposed yellowing bones. They are even more horrible than the typical Lich, for the Broken Sangrolu are forever cursed to decay, with only the blood of mortal to hold back the inevitable.
Broken Sangrolu decompose rapidly, losing two Hit Dice per 24-hour period. Their bodies simply fall apart when they reach 0 HD. The only way to hold back the rot is to drink blood...for every 10 hit points of blood they drink, they regain one hit die. However, even when fed, a Broken Sangrolu is a monster with tight, wrinkled flesh and burning yellow eyes.
posted by umbrapolaris at Giant in the Playground
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10286925 |
| Fellfire |
Posted - 20 Feb 2011 : 19:21:44
Threnody was Kiaransalee's homeworld.
"In fact, what if the great spell that forced the dark elves shun the light had an unintended aftereffect and created Kanchelsis (making the noble gold elves responsible for all the tragedy caused by vampires since then)."
Interesting hypothesis, I need to give this some more thought. I especially like the "unintended consequences" bit. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 20 Feb 2011 : 19:10:16
I don't recall Kiaransalee having a consort??? My books aren't handy, but I thought Threnody was a place name or something. Is there more info?
I like the idea of Kanchelsis and Kiaransalee actually being at odds rather than being together. Or maybe sometimes lovers / sometimes enemies. I would also favor Kanchelsis being a Gold Elf. In fact, what if the great spell that forced the dark elves shun the light had an unintended aftereffect and created Kanchelsis (making the noble gold elves responsible for all the tragedy caused by vampires since then).
quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
MT- I believe Lilith is mentioned in one of the MU Handbooks, under "ancient beings" or something like that. Cain in WoD was believed dead, but it was never proven one way or another- he simply disappeared, IIRC. And you forgot about kiaransalee's consort in Threnody, that might very well have been Kanchelsis. Which would make them the King and Queen of the Undead.
quale, I like that bit about the dgaon vamps being first, perhaps that's more faluzure's venue, though.
|
| Alystra Illianniis |
Posted - 18 Feb 2011 : 02:46:58
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
While looking at stuff for this site I looked around at various Vampire 'settings' and found out that Marvel Comics have bought heavily into this Vampire craze with a WoD-like 'Vampire Illuminati'.
I love the twists on Marvel-lore you've composed here, Markus. Of course, I noticed you missed a few important points about the Darkhold from the 90's run of Doctor Strange, but you've got the gist of it. 
Well, technically, the vampire Illuminati idea was mine, based on something out of the Vampire Papers novel series by Michael Romkey. Back in high school, I was a big vampire-fic fanatic, and read every vamp novel I could get my hands on. This series was interesting, because it used the Illuminati secret society idea as a sort of "club of intellectual immortals", with most of history's great minds and talents having joined. Mozart, Da Vinci, and many other famous thinkers and artists and such were all vampires! I can see a Realmsian version of this as a group formed to keep lore and cultures alive down through the centuries. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 18 Feb 2011 : 00:27:52
quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
MT- I believe Lilith is mentioned in one of the MU Handbooks, under "ancient beings" or something like that.
There's two Liliths in the Marvel Universe -- the first being the daughter of Dracula, and the second is regarded as the "Mother of All Demons" and often plagued Ghost Rider II and the rest of the Midnight Sons during the mid-90's.
|
| The Sage |
Posted - 18 Feb 2011 : 00:25:01
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
While looking at stuff for this site I looked around at various Vampire 'settings' and found out that Marvel Comics have bought heavily into this Vampire craze with a WoD-like 'Vampire Illuminati'.
I love the twists on Marvel-lore you've composed here, Markus. Of course, I noticed you missed a few important points about the Darkhold from the 90's run of Doctor Strange, but you've got the gist of it. |
| Quale |
Posted - 17 Feb 2011 : 22:58:55
In D&D there's a lot of confusion with Lilith, Lolth, Lamashtu, lilitu demons etc. |
| Erdrick Stormedge |
Posted - 17 Feb 2011 : 21:26:24
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Interestingly, Lilith was made from the tail bone of Adam, rather then a rib, which has certain... draconic... implications.
Source?
Fellfire, I'll get that House Tsornyl stuff posted soon, sorry for the delay! |
| Quale |
Posted - 17 Feb 2011 : 20:52:27
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Couple that with Quale's interesting suggestion of Draconic vampires, and some of my own musings about the proto-world that existed before the worlds (Prime material) were torn asunder, and I think we may be on a very interesting path. I have to think on this more - there's definitely some VERY usable stuff here...
When I thought about Dracula and the Order of the Dragon before, I imagined the process of initiation through their ranks similar to the defiler transformation in Dark Sun, plus vampirism and more shapechanging powers.
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Some of this may relate (in a 'Genesis' kind of way), and I found a new source for inspiration - The Book of Enoch! 
Hebrew mythology is really underused for D&D, the nephilim were my long time favourites. They have them in PF now. |
| Alystra Illianniis |
Posted - 17 Feb 2011 : 20:25:14
Uh, no, that was in Marvel Universe Handbook series, not WoD. Sorry, MT, thought I stated it plainly. She's under the listing of some of their oldest "gods/immortals/whatever" type characters. I don't know if she was ever mentioned in WoD, as I only played a little of both werewolf (which has little to do with the vampires beyond as enemies) and Masquerade, and I don't recall seeing her in either one. |
|
|
