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Gavinfoxx
Learned Scribe
USA
132 Posts |
 Posted - 14 Nov 2010 : 08:25:12
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Note: Circa 1360-1370, 3.5e, realms as presented in the FRCS (Mostly).
Hi there, I was wondering what of the (many?) places in Faerun you would likely find the largest concentrations of Incantatrixes and Incantatars in Faerun? Are there any known formal or informal colleges of this path of magic? Googling and checking the FR Wiki, it looks like two named Incantatrixes are north of the Shaar.
Where else are groups who might specialize in techniques that make arcane metamagic 'cheaper' or easier to do? There are lots of ways to do this in the rules, but I'm wondering where those paths of doing things might be most common in the Realms. For example, where could you find, say, Illumians who do their neat racial metamagic tricks? Where could you find a good amount of clerics who do Divine Metamagic things? I guess that would be Clerics of Mystra maybe? Maybe clerics that actually get the Undeath domain (that one necromancer god, I forget his name, I think has that), or clerics who get the Planning domain (I think the Red Knight was it)? Where's one of the biggest churches or temples of those gods, then? What about Bards with Metamagic Song? Where might most of those be found? I'm sure I'm missing something, I'm just trying to figure out the link between rules stuff and in world stuff! Like if someone got an arbitrarily high answer on a knowledge (whatever) check to the question, "Where are the main concentrations, in Faerun, of Metamagic specialists who have interesting tricks in doing metamagic more easily than others?", what would the answer likely be?
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GazzaM
Acolyte
Australia
18 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2010 : 14:10:53
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The Sorority of the Silver Fire is probally the strongest conregration of Incantrics in Faerun. They are detailed in the Cult of the Dragon book.
Halruaa would also be a centre of metamagic study, given that Halruaan Elders have access to metamagic enhancing abilities. |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2010 : 14:12:19
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There are no concentrations of them, there are seven widely-known incantantrixes and two suspected incantars, plus a few hundred in anonymity. I guess one center could be Ruathym where the Tome of the Unicorn was for some time. And the Lands of Intrigue, as a legacy of Shoon magic.
Edit: or what GazzaM says
I'd like to tie the incantantrixes to the eldritch magic MT mentioned |
Edited by - Quale on 14 Nov 2010 14:22:12 |
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Gavinfoxx
Learned Scribe
USA
132 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2010 : 18:49:06
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I checked that sourcebook (yay free download from wizards.com!), but I couldn't find anything saying where the Sorority was based. Maybe I'm just not looking hard enough??
Quayle: What MT mentioned??? Huh?
Does anyone know anything about the OTHER questions of where/how metamagic focused groups might do things? |
Edited by - Gavinfoxx on 14 Nov 2010 18:52:07 |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2010 : 21:05:03
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nothing, it's in the other thread
I suggest the Carmendine arcanists of Deneir would develop something like the Illumians |
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Gavinfoxx
Learned Scribe
USA
132 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2010 : 21:15:07
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WHAT other thread? Where?? What are you talking about??
And can you define / describe / locate the greatest concentration of / give me a sourcebook or link to these 'Carmendine arcanists'? |
Edited by - Gavinfoxx on 14 Nov 2010 21:17:08 |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2010 : 21:33:37
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nothing canon, from thisthread
Faiths and Avatars, pg. 55
centres lke the Twilight Hall in Berdusk, the Edficant Library in Erlkazar, or Mt. Talath in Halruaa |
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GazzaM
Acolyte
Australia
18 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2010 : 22:24:10
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| The Sorority are based in Everlund and Rasheman. |
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Gavinfoxx
Learned Scribe
USA
132 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2010 : 22:37:57
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So would you say this is true, correct, and likely to be accurate?
"Groups in faerun that are good at metamagic mitigation:
1. Anywhere you find many Clerics of Mystra, of course. They are likely to *want* to have access to metamagic feats and divine metamagic, because, you know, MYSTRA. Goddess of magic! Also, Dwoemerkeepers... !!
2. Illumians. They have some natural abilities that help with metamagic. These word/letter/magic based humans are most likely associated with Deneir, and can maybe be found in the communities that serve his greatest libraries, where the people would be
changed because of the great focus on *words* near them. Look for the towns that are in the Earthfast Mountains, there is a wonderful library somewhere there.
3. Incantatrixes. These groups mostly don't form societies, but the secretive 'Society of Silver Fire' is one, and might be active in or around Silver Marshes and Rashemen, opposing the Cult of the Dragon.
4. Halruaans. They probably have a few professors of Metamagic Studies at Mt. Talath in Halruaa.
5. Places with large concentrations of Clerics of Deities that offer the Planning Domain (those deities being Ubtao, Sseth, Siamorphe, Red Knight, Ilneval, Helm, Gond, and Amaunator), or places with large concentrations of Clerics that offer the Undeath domain (those being Kiaransalee and Velsharoon). I don't know precisely where each of these would be, and which groups/areas would have clerics most likely to go down the Divine Metamagic path...
6. Any place where that crazy Demilich Necromancer, Shoon, left his influence. That would be Ruathym, and the Lands of Intrigue." |
Edited by - Gavinfoxx on 14 Nov 2010 22:38:50 |
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Bladewind
Master of Realmslore
Netherlands
1280 Posts |
Posted - 15 Nov 2010 : 00:43:11
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Hmm, I don't see most arcanists and divine casters that experiment with magic congregating to a large degree.
Magic in Toril is respected but a coveted asset. Those that experiment likely do so in very small groups, and limit their findings to those they trust with their secrets. Arcanists are usually a paranoid bunch and are likely to safeguard their techniques in order to maintain their arcane advantage over rivals. Divine casters are somewhat more liberal but will be more absorbed in internal rivalries within the church, and won't flaunt their increased abilities unless they can guarentee they'll get higher up in the hierarchy and have enough support from their lessers.
Incantatrixes are traditionally found near places with lots of planar traffic, so start looking for permanent Gates and Portals and you'll find increased chances of encountering groups of Incantatars. Only those Incantatars of high enough experience with stopping extraplanar threats gain acces to their meta-magic mastery tricks. They'll likely be stationed near areas with weakened planar barriers in the Realms. Narfell (dealings with Lower Planar Fiends) comes to mind, and so does Deep Imaskar (Meddling with intra-dimensianl spaces), Thay and Halruua. |
My campaign sketches
Druidic Groves
Creature Feature: Giant Spiders |
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Gavinfoxx
Learned Scribe
USA
132 Posts |
Posted - 15 Nov 2010 : 05:29:56
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Well, do they want to prevent most interplanar travel at all, or only "Bad Things" coming over?
As far as the church stuff, what might be a church where, say, there might be a decent quantity of DMM:Quicken or DMM:Persist clerics? |
Edited by - Gavinfoxx on 15 Nov 2010 05:30:45 |
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Kno
Senior Scribe
452 Posts |
Posted - 15 Nov 2010 : 16:08:00
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| Quicken Savras, they can predict, Persist Mystra, had the time portfolio before. |
z455t |
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Bladewind
Master of Realmslore
Netherlands
1280 Posts |
Posted - 15 Nov 2010 : 16:31:42
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I think its mentioned in Magic of Fearun that the permanent nature of Portals had a bad influence on the Weave, so yes, most Incantatrixes would be against heavy use of interplanar travel through Portals and the calling or summoning of planar entities through the Gate or Summon Monster spells. Aglaronds vicinity to Thay is likely to be a good reason for these expert mages to stick around in some permanent form. Thay is renowned for its dealings with extraplanars, evidenced by the higher than normal occurance of tieflings, half-fiends and elementals.
Interplanar travel in it self is a far more controlled use of the Weave though, so that wouldn't raise Incantatrixes attentions that much.
The Orc Gate wars in the Old Empires (Chessenta, Unther, Mulhorand) has likely made Incantatrixes frequent those parts regularly aswell. I wonder how old Incantatar wizardry is though, as the Gate wars occured a long time ago in the past. My feeling is that the tradition is fairly new, and has built opun lessons of catastrophic gate failures in the past... |
My campaign sketches
Druidic Groves
Creature Feature: Giant Spiders |
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Gavinfoxx
Learned Scribe
USA
132 Posts |
Posted - 15 Nov 2010 : 19:09:58
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So, in the lore, Incantatrixes are against even benign uses of this:
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/planarAllyLesser.htm
Even if they would be calling creatures that are servants of Mystra, like one of her minor Archons (like a Hound Archon) or something?
Also, in 3.5e at least, there is a difference between Calling and Summoning spells. They both summon specific beings, but Summoning spells imply that the creature goes through some kind of genericising process (like all Druid's Summon Nature's Ally spells summon the same thing from their list, if you summon a hippogriff, it's the same the next time you summon a hippogriff), and if they die, the original just respawns back where it came from a little later. Calling spells seem to not do the genericising process, it actually brings something to you in it's original form. So by the lore, Incantatrixes are completely against both?? So they're against some of the most common magics in the realms?! Gyah, damn 2e lore that doesn't seem to make sense with 3e rules... *goes to read the 3e flavor text on incantatrixes*..
*readread*
...little offensive magic that works against normal creatures... *snrrrkkk*, wow, the rules designers really knew what they were talking about...
Also my questions about the Clerics might not have been clear...
Where, in FAERUN, are the specific huuuge churches / cathedrals / monestaries / etc. that would have lots of clerics of the appropriate deities? Ones that either offer a philosophical reason for choosing a divine metamagic path, or whose domains offer make it easier to choosing a divine metamagic path...? I'm looking for an answer that names a location. |
Edited by - Gavinfoxx on 15 Nov 2010 19:57:55 |
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Bladewind
Master of Realmslore
Netherlands
1280 Posts |
Posted - 15 Nov 2010 : 20:09:09
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No, they are not completely against calling or summoning creatures, but they resent heavy use of it. I.e. when a caster would rely solely on his or her planar allies for solving problems they'd get a visit from Incantatrixes sooner or later.
They are intended to focus on (or at least not prohibit) Abjurations, which are usually not very good at blasting or removing foes permanently. |
My campaign sketches
Druidic Groves
Creature Feature: Giant Spiders |
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Gavinfoxx
Learned Scribe
USA
132 Posts |
Posted - 15 Nov 2010 : 20:26:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Bladewind
They are intended to focus on (or at least not prohibit) Abjurations, which are usually not very good at blasting or removing foes permanently.
Wow, the designers TOTALLY failed at that. They made the single best class for blasting stuff in the ENTIRE 3.Xe GAME, by a very very large margin, by accident?? Freaky...
So my druid, who has most of her feats invested in things that augment Summon Nature's Ally, and uses that extensively, might get a visit from an Incantatrix at some point? And the implication that summoning an army like that weakens the weave, somehow, even if divine magic is used? Doesn't that go against some of the lore that, in general, casting spells that aren't CRAZY HIGH LEVEL, or epic spells or whatever, tends to strengthen the Weave? |
Edited by - Gavinfoxx on 15 Nov 2010 20:32:17 |
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Bladewind
Master of Realmslore
Netherlands
1280 Posts |
Posted - 15 Nov 2010 : 20:58:09
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Yeah, I know optimizers see the Incantatrixes as the best PrC for arcanists of any kind. It doesn't remove the lore of them favoring abjurations over evocations and conjurations though. I think it makes sense too: being able to have a flexible answer to potent blast spells a deep understanding of them is required.
I didn't say summoning weakens the weave (they might be more stressful for the weave though)... its permanent links to other planes that strain the weave.
Regarding churches with Divine Metamagic available you'd have to look up the major centers of worship in the Faith and Pantheons tome for those gods that have access to the Planning or Undeath Domain (f.e. Siamorphes Chapel and Chalice of the Divine Right), Waterdeep), gods that are casting oriented such as the major magic gods (f.e. Azuth's divinatorium in Cimbar, Chessenta), and those that favor crafty clergymen such as those with trickery domains (f.e. Cyrics Twin Towers of Night(?)). |
My campaign sketches
Druidic Groves
Creature Feature: Giant Spiders |
Edited by - Bladewind on 15 Nov 2010 21:38:59 |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6647 Posts |
Posted - 15 Nov 2010 : 22:36:35
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Back in 1E land, before Rashemen went into a proto-Eastern European direction, I always thought that the Witches of Rashemen were incantatrixes.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Ralderick Hallowshaw
Acolyte
Italy
36 Posts |
Posted - 16 Nov 2010 : 12:46:47
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Back in 1E land, before Rashemen went into a proto-Eastern European direction, I always thought that the Witches of Rashemen were incantatrixes.
-- George Krashos
Could be this the reason why Ed called "witch" the first incantatrix, Alaertha?
AFAIK one the two foundresses of the Sorority of the Silver Fire (the main incantatrix coven on Faerun), Yhelfanna the Masked, was an Hathran, too. |
"Adventurers are best used to slay monsters. Sooner or later, they become your worst monsters, and you have to hire new ones to do the obvious thing" - Ralderick Hallowshaw, Jester - from To Rule A Realm, From Turret To Midden, published circa The Year of the Bloodbird
And forgive me for my bad use of English language!  |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11701 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2010 : 19:34:59
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Yeah, I can't say why I know this anymore (been doing other stuff a couple years now), but I know there was a strong tie between the incantatrix's and "the witches of Rashemen". Now, which sect of the witches (because I've never believed they fell from one cloth, and preferred the idea that there were several variations of witches).
In fact your questions about divine metamagics, I believe there would be sects of them in Rashemen as well, primarily because many witches had to learn both arcane and divine magic.
I can also see there being divine metamagic specialists worshipping Velsharoon and pursuing both the mystic theurge and true necromancer prestige class (think that was the name, where you went up with both classes in spellcasting). |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Gavinfoxx
Learned Scribe
USA
132 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2010 : 22:05:07
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Heh, True Necromancer. If only that class was actually written in a way that doesn't suck... it's a real pity, really, it has some great flavor... too bad it, and Yathrinshee, are crippled!
If you're curious about why those two are crippled, just read this:
http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=5584.0 |
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Where are the main Incantatar/Incantatrix schools?
