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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
 Posted - 03 Jul 2010 : 07:07:38
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She can influence insignificant wizards to do her will in exchange for something. But what about the powerful wizards, the ones who truly matter? What will she bribe them with? Information? Gold? Well, they can take those from her without sweat. And as to her wits, well, unless all wizards in Toril suddenly become deranged, she'll never outwit them all.
Have you ever wondered why there is not a single archvillain fighter? It's because of the same reasons above. She'd hope who control wizards, but in the end she'll find it's the wizards controlling her. Having zilch magical ability, she wouldn't even notice that they've already enspelled her to do their whims. 
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Every beginning has an end. |
Edited by - Dennis on 03 Jul 2010 07:11:07 |
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GRYPHON
Senior Scribe
USA
527 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2010 : 15:36:05
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| Quenthel Baenre... |
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Dracons
Learned Scribe
USA
299 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2010 : 19:09:23
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quote:
Originally posted by dennis
She can influence insignificant wizards to do her will in exchange for something. But what about the powerful wizards, the ones who truly matter? What will she bribe them with? Information? Gold? Well, they can take those from her without sweat. And as to her wits, well, unless all wizards in Toril suddenly become deranged, she'll never outwit them all.
Have you ever wondered why there is not a single archvillain fighter? It's because of the same reasons above. She'd hope who control wizards, but in the end she'll find it's the wizards controlling her. Having zilch magical ability, she wouldn't even notice that they've already enspelled her to do their whims.
Again. She was an Archvillain in a few books. So stating she's not a archvillain isn't true.
What books had Larloch in it that he was primary villain? Not any if I recalled right. Szass tam, Telamont? Yeah. They were also main villains.
I belive you think that all these super villains are arch enemies in all games. But being an archvillain in a game is different from archvillains that are canon, such as Lord Cutter being one. |
I love PMs! Please send me a message. Even if its Hi. |
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Firestorm
Senior Scribe
Canada
826 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2010 : 20:37:35
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quote:
Originally posted by capnvan
quote:
Originally posted by dennis
[Larloch (though arguably, since he seems to be more neutral than evil)
Just a quibble - I think it's been fairly well established over the years that Larloch is thoroughly evil. It's just that much of what he's doing doesn't have any noticeable effect on the Realms, as perceived by PCs et al.
He is certainly evil and willing to do whatever necessary to achieve his goals. More a lawful evil type who keeps his minions in check and does not go out of his way to cause trouble.
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Thauramarth
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
729 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2010 : 20:37:35
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| A sadly overlooked potential archvillainess would be Cassana... So, sure, she may be "officially dead", but the woman did have a few tricks up her sleeve. She may yet surprise. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jul 2010 : 06:28:50
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From what little I know of her, I think she looks interesting. But I haven't read Azure Bonds yet (quite busy with Clemens' books lately), so my basis might be quite shallow. That's the only book where she's featured, right?
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Every beginning has an end. |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jul 2010 : 14:44:30
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| Starleaf, the green elf that caused the Sundering, the Simbul's got potential too |
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Thauramarth
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
729 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jul 2010 : 22:48:03
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quote:
Originally posted by dennis
From what little I know of her, I think she looks interesting. But I haven't read Azure Bonds yet (quite busy with Clemens' books lately), so my basis might be quite shallow. That's the only book where she's featured, right?
She was statted out for 1E and 2E in FR7-Hall of Heroes and Villains' Lorebook, the latter still available as a free download from the WotC site HERE. |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2010 : 06:18:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Quale
Starleaf, the green elf that caused the Sundering, the Simbul's got potential too
Given that it ultimately led to the Spellplague, and in the shorter term caused immense destruction and loss of life, I would have to call the Sundering the single greatest act of evil in the history of Toril. Yes, even more evil than the acts of the Vyshaan during the Crown Wars, or even the sacking of Myth Drannor by the Army of Darkness.
To return more precisely to topic, the 3E Realms had an amazing arch-villainess in Impiltur, in the person of the succubus Soneillon, but the Spellplague wiped her out like she never existed. Just another reason why I allowed my PCs the chance to actually stop the Spellplague in the big adventure trilogy, at which they succeeded admirably (with no help from the supposedly problematic Chosen at all).  |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
Edited by - Jakk on 05 Jul 2010 06:19:16 |
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Dracons
Learned Scribe
USA
299 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2010 : 06:31:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
[quote]Originally posted by Quale
Just another reason why I allowed my PCs the chance to actually stop the Spellplague in the big adventure trilogy, at which they succeeded admirably (with no help from the supposedly problematic Chosen at all).
That's because the Chosen are only /problematic/ when the DM chooses to let them, or the players just give up and go /let them do it!/. |
I love PMs! Please send me a message. Even if its Hi. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2010 : 08:03:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Quale
Starleaf, the green elf that caused the Sundering, the Simbul's got potential too
I still prefer the Simbul to be a hero. She's too precious to lose. But you're right, with all her wild ways, she's definitely got the potential.
Re: Starleaf, well, I think I said it quite a lot of times that I never like elves, save a very, very few drow, so she's out of my list. I just included Kiva because I like Counselors and Kings.
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Every beginning has an end. |
Edited by - Dennis on 05 Jul 2010 08:10:20 |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2010 : 12:51:10
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Another possible candidate is that seemingly crazy witch in Frostfell. Can't remember her name. She's the one who sought magicl magical items and intended to eat the humans, but was prevented by the belkagen. She's kinda mysterious.
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Every beginning has an end. |
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Zanan
Senior Scribe
Germany
942 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2010 : 14:12:10
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quote:
Originally posted by dennis
Another possible candidate is that seemingly crazy witch in Frostfell. Can't remember her name. She's the one who sought magicl magical items and intended to eat the humans, but was prevented by the belkagen. She's kinda mysterious.
Ach well, it is one of the good old well-treaded prejeduces that villainesses have to be crazy ... or be otherwise mildly deranged. Nigh all who were not (in novels), met a quick end at the close of the story. Shadowsil anyone? That durthan lass in Shield of the Weeping Ghost, a score of level-headed drow priestesses, you name them ... |
Cave quid dicis, quando et cui!
Gæð a wyrd swa hio scel!
In memory of Alura Durshavin.
Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faerûn, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more. |
Edited by - Zanan on 06 Jul 2010 14:13:15 |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3563 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2010 : 15:06:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Zanan
quote:
Originally posted by dennis
Another possible candidate is that seemingly crazy witch in Frostfell. Can't remember her name. She's the one who sought magicl magical items and intended to eat the humans, but was prevented by the belkagen. She's kinda mysterious.
Ach well, it is one of the good old well-treaded prejeduces that villainesses have to be crazy ... or be otherwise mildly deranged. Nigh all who were not (in novels), met a quick end at the close of the story. Shadowsil anyone? That durthan lass in Shield of the Weeping Ghost, a score of level-headed drow priestesses, you name them ...
To be fair, by definiton a villain is some one wicked or evil....so they usually arent quite right in the head regardless of gender. |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Lenora Ilvastarr
Acolyte
USA
22 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2010 : 17:02:49
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I couldn't bring myself to vote for one of those listed, so I chose someone outside the box, so to speak. My vote goes to Alauneth "the Black Viper" Orrane. She now leads the Shadow Thieves in Waterdeep, per the City of Splendors sourcebook. I find her a rather interesting character.
As for the criteria of being an Arch-villainess, one doesn't need to be an archmage to qualify. Power comes in many forms. One doesn't need magic to have it. Look at Jarlaxle. For years he navigated the twisted politics of Menzoberranzan to the point where he could nearly do anything with impunity. And he is certainly no archmage :).
Words, such as giving speeches in a public forum, and information are forms of power. One doesn't need powerful magic to control the thoughts and opinions of a populace and to gain a loyal following.
Just my 2 coppers. |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2010 : 17:58:52
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| Just chiming in with my two Zhents, but who says they have to have magic to be an arch-villain? What about Artimis Entreri? He's been the nemisis of Drizzt and several others for HOW long? and all without using any magic himself. (weapons aside, of course) He's taken out mages, fighters, and assorted other folk with just his fighting and thieving skills. Okay- I'll get down off my soapbox now. And I agree about Jarlaxle, too. No mage, but he knows how to handle mages as well as anybody! |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188
Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2010 : 18:35:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Lenora Ilvastarr
I couldn't bring myself to vote for one of those listed, so I chose someone outside the box, so to speak. My vote goes to Alauneth "the Black Viper" Orrane. She now leads the Shadow Thieves in Waterdeep, per the City of Splendors sourcebook. I find her a rather interesting character.
As for the criteria of being an Arch-villainess, one doesn't need to be an archmage to qualify. Power comes in many forms. One doesn't need magic to have it. Look at Jarlaxle. For years he navigated the twisted politics of Menzoberranzan to the point where he could nearly do anything with impunity. And he is certainly no archmage :).
Words, such as giving speeches in a public forum, and information are forms of power. One doesn't need powerful magic to control the thoughts and opinions of a populace and to gain a loyal following.
Just my 2 coppers.
Without magic, hardly can one be an effective and successful archvillain or archvillainess. Take for instance Marek Rymut (not yet an archvillain, but a powerful and sly Red Wizard nonetheless). He has the gift of speech and swayed a lot people from Innarlith just by opening his gifted mouth. But if he was not a wizard, a lot of his enemies, both from Thay and Innarlith, would have easily made him a puppet.
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Dracons
Learned Scribe
USA
299 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2010 : 18:38:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Lenora Ilvastarr
I couldn't bring myself to vote for one of those listed, so I chose someone outside the box, so to speak. My vote goes to Alauneth "the Black Viper" Orrane. She now leads the Shadow Thieves in Waterdeep, per the City of Splendors sourcebook. I find her a rather interesting character.
As for the criteria of being an Arch-villainess, one doesn't need to be an archmage to qualify. Power comes in many forms. One doesn't need magic to have it. Look at Jarlaxle. For years he navigated the twisted politics of Menzoberranzan to the point where he could nearly do anything with impunity. And he is certainly no archmage :).
Words, such as giving speeches in a public forum, and information are forms of power. One doesn't need powerful magic to control the thoughts and opinions of a populace and to gain a loyal following.
Just my 2 coppers.
Thank you Lenora Ilvastarr. Glad I'm not alone. But it won't matter to dennis. It's mage villain or all none-magic villains cannot exist to him. |
I love PMs! Please send me a message. Even if its Hi. |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2010 : 18:40:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Zireael
quote:
Originally posted by RuulWhere is it mentioned that Quenthel killed Triel? I must have missed that one.
FRCG. Menzoberranzan description.
For what it's worth, that note only says Quenthel forced Triel into a battle she couldn't win--it does NOT say that Quenthel necessarily killed her. Triel could very well be alive out there somewhere scheming to get her place back in Menzoberranzan.
(Or possibly that she turned her back on her evil heritage and is now a good-aligned rebel trying to overcome prejudice, etc., etc., drow will be drow. )
Also, on the subject of male/female arch-villainesses, my books are less Realms-shaking than we're probably talking about, but I try to use equal numbers of male and female villains, some of whom have the power to be major Realms-threats in their own right. I find them very interesting to write or DM--often, I find myself making the main villain the *opposite* gender of the main hero, so as to instill a little (subtle or overt) gender warfare in my books.
Aside from Quenthel (who is already a female big bad), I would indeed have liked to see at least one or two of the big 4e villains (Manshoon, Szass Tam, etc.) be female.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2010 : 18:45:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
Just chiming in with my two Zhents, but who says they have to have magic to be an arch-villain?
Zhents??? I'm sick of them.....
Anyway, as to your claim about not having magic to be an archvillain, which some seem to favor, oh, well, if my example of Aglarond in my previous scroll is not enough, try replacing the Witches of Rashemen with pathetic (or excellent, if you wish) fighters, and let's see what Szass Tam will make of Rashemen! 
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Every beginning has an end. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2010 : 18:49:49
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quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
quote:
Originally posted by Zanan
quote:
Originally posted by dennis
Another possible candidate is that seemingly crazy witch in Frostfell. Can't remember her name. She's the one who sought magicl magical items and intended to eat the humans, but was prevented by the belkagen. She's kinda mysterious.
Ach well, it is one of the good old well-treaded prejeduces that villainesses have to be crazy ... or be otherwise mildly deranged. Nigh all who were not (in novels), met a quick end at the close of the story. Shadowsil anyone? That durthan lass in Shield of the Weeping Ghost, a score of level-headed drow priestesses, you name them ...
To be fair, by definiton a villain is some one wicked or evil....so they usually arent quite right in the head regardless of gender.
Well said, Red Walker!
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Every beginning has an end. |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3563 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2010 : 18:52:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
quote:
Originally posted by Zireael
quote:
Originally posted by RuulWhere is it mentioned that Quenthel killed Triel? I must have missed that one.
FRCG. Menzoberranzan description.
For what it's worth, that note only says Quenthel forced Triel into a battle she couldn't win--it does NOT say that Quenthel necessarily killed her. Triel could very well be alive out there somewhere scheming to get her place back in Menzoberranzan.
(Or possibly that she turned her back on her evil heritage and is now a good-aligned rebel trying to overcome prejudice, etc., etc., drow will be drow. )
Also, on the subject of male/female arch-villainesses, my books are less Realms-shaking than we're probably talking about, but I try to use equal numbers of male and female villains, some of whom have the power to be major Realms-threats in their own right. I find them very interesting to write or DM--often, I find myself making the main villain the *opposite* gender of the main hero, so as to instill a little (subtle or overt) gender warfare in my books.
Aside from Quenthel (who is already a female big bad), I would indeed have liked to see at least one or two of the big 4e villains (Manshoon, Szass Tam, etc.) be female.
Cheers
 I am laughin' my effin butt off, thinking of Manshoon reaction after "the blue fire" made him into a female |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3563 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2010 : 18:54:24
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quote:
Originally posted by dennis
quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
quote:
Originally posted by Zanan
quote:
Originally posted by dennis
Another possible candidate is that seemingly crazy witch in Frostfell. Can't remember her name. She's the one who sought magicl magical items and intended to eat the humans, but was prevented by the belkagen. She's kinda mysterious.
Ach well, it is one of the good old well-treaded prejeduces that villainesses have to be crazy ... or be otherwise mildly deranged. Nigh all who were not (in novels), met a quick end at the close of the story. Shadowsil anyone? That durthan lass in Shield of the Weeping Ghost, a score of level-headed drow priestesses, you name them ...
To be fair, by definiton a villain is some one wicked or evil....so they usually arent quite right in the head regardless of gender.
Well said, Red Walker!
Thanks....even sometimes my opinion can be right |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2010 : 19:00:13
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quote:
Originally posted by dracons
quote:
Originally posted by Lenora Ilvastarr
I couldn't bring myself to vote for one of those listed, so I chose someone outside the box, so to speak. My vote goes to Alauneth "the Black Viper" Orrane. She now leads the Shadow Thieves in Waterdeep, per the City of Splendors sourcebook. I find her a rather interesting character.
As for the criteria of being an Arch-villainess, one doesn't need to be an archmage to qualify. Power comes in many forms. One doesn't need magic to have it. Look at Jarlaxle. For years he navigated the twisted politics of Menzoberranzan to the point where he could nearly do anything with impunity. And he is certainly no archmage :).
Words, such as giving speeches in a public forum, and information are forms of power. One doesn't need powerful magic to control the thoughts and opinions of a populace and to gain a loyal following.
Just my 2 coppers.
Thank you Lenora Ilvastarr. Glad I'm not alone. But it won't matter to dennis. It's mage villain or all none-magic villains cannot exist to him.
I did not say all non-magic users can never be a villain for some already are, but they can hardly (it's pretty much impossible) attain the level of arhvillain. They can succeed or rule for a year, a decade....name a span of time if you wish, but they will never be around for long because wizards or priestesses with considerable power and who find their existence an annoyance that has to be rid of, will squash them with scarcely a lift of an eyebrow!
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Every beginning has an end. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2010 : 19:09:53
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quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
quote:
Originally posted by Zireael
quote:
Originally posted by RuulWhere is it mentioned that Quenthel killed Triel? I must have missed that one.
FRCG. Menzoberranzan description.
For what it's worth, that note only says Quenthel forced Triel into a battle she couldn't win--it does NOT say that Quenthel necessarily killed her. Triel could very well be alive out there somewhere scheming to get her place back in Menzoberranzan.
(Or possibly that she turned her back on her evil heritage and is now a good-aligned rebel trying to overcome prejudice, etc., etc., drow will be drow. )
Also, on the subject of male/female arch-villainesses, my books are less Realms-shaking than we're probably talking about, but I try to use equal numbers of male and female villains, some of whom have the power to be major Realms-threats in their own right. I find them very interesting to write or DM--often, I find myself making the main villain the *opposite* gender of the main hero, so as to instill a little (subtle or overt) gender warfare in my books.
Aside from Quenthel (who is already a female big bad), I would indeed have liked to see at least one or two of the big 4e villains (Manshoon, Szass Tam, etc.) be female.
Cheers
I am laughin' my effin butt off, thinking of Manshoon reaction after "the blue fire" made him into a female
If Mashoon becomes a female, surely she'll have to take a lover...Fzoul, perhaps?...Now that will be quite a sight!
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2010 : 19:27:29
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And speaking of lover, did Szass Tam ever have a lover when he was still human?
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Every beginning has an end. |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2010 : 19:41:22
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quote:
Originally posted by dennis
quote:
Originally posted by dracons
quote:
Originally posted by Lenora Ilvastarr
I couldn't bring myself to vote for one of those listed, so I chose someone outside the box, so to speak. My vote goes to Alauneth "the Black Viper" Orrane. She now leads the Shadow Thieves in Waterdeep, per the City of Splendors sourcebook. I find her a rather interesting character.
As for the criteria of being an Arch-villainess, one doesn't need to be an archmage to qualify. Power comes in many forms. One doesn't need magic to have it. Look at Jarlaxle. For years he navigated the twisted politics of Menzoberranzan to the point where he could nearly do anything with impunity. And he is certainly no archmage :).
Words, such as giving speeches in a public forum, and information are forms of power. One doesn't need powerful magic to control the thoughts and opinions of a populace and to gain a loyal following.
Just my 2 coppers.
Thank you Lenora Ilvastarr. Glad I'm not alone. But it won't matter to dennis. It's mage villain or all none-magic villains cannot exist to him.
I did not say all non-magic users can never be a villain for some already are, but they can hardly (it's pretty much impossible) attain the level of arhvillain. They can succeed or rule for a year, a decade....name a span of time if you wish, but they will never be around for long because wizards or priestesses with considerable power and who find their existence an annoyance that has to be rid of, will squash them with scarcely a lift of an eyebrow!
So basically, what you're saying is that they can't really be an arch-villain unless they're around for centuries due to having magic to use? I call BS!!! As to the Rashemen question, I can blow that theory out of the water in three words. Purple Dragon Knights. They have no magic (except perhaps a few who might have learned some) as most are fighters or perhaps a few palis (and even that's pushing the magic-use), yet they defend Cormyr quite well without it. Sure there are the War Wizards, too, but it's usually the Knights who do most of the work. Same goes for the dwarves of Mithril Hall or Adbar, or the folk of Mirabar, for that matter. Fighters and their ilk can defend- or concquor- a kingdom just as well as any wizards or priests, so that's not much of an argument. Besides which, far more people train with weapons, which gives a distinct numerical advantage. A wizard or priest, no matter HOW powerful, will eventually run out of spells!!! So much for the best arch-villains being magic-users. The best ones, IMO, don't NEED magic to muck things up severely.... |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188
Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2010 : 19:54:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
quote:
Originally posted by dennis
quote:
Originally posted by dracons
quote:
Originally posted by Lenora Ilvastarr
I couldn't bring myself to vote for one of those listed, so I chose someone outside the box, so to speak. My vote goes to Alauneth "the Black Viper" Orrane. She now leads the Shadow Thieves in Waterdeep, per the City of Splendors sourcebook. I find her a rather interesting character.
As for the criteria of being an Arch-villainess, one doesn't need to be an archmage to qualify. Power comes in many forms. One doesn't need magic to have it. Look at Jarlaxle. For years he navigated the twisted politics of Menzoberranzan to the point where he could nearly do anything with impunity. And he is certainly no archmage :).
Words, such as giving speeches in a public forum, and information are forms of power. One doesn't need powerful magic to control the thoughts and opinions of a populace and to gain a loyal following.
Just my 2 coppers.
Thank you Lenora Ilvastarr. Glad I'm not alone. But it won't matter to dennis. It's mage villain or all none-magic villains cannot exist to him.
I did not say all non-magic users can never be a villain for some already are, but they can hardly (it's pretty much impossible) attain the level of arhvillain. They can succeed or rule for a year, a decade....name a span of time if you wish, but they will never be around for long because wizards or priestesses with considerable power and who find their existence an annoyance that has to be rid of, will squash them with scarcely a lift of an eyebrow!
So basically, what you're saying is that they can't really be an arch-villain unless they're around for centuries due to having magic to use? I call BS!!! As to the Rashemen question, I can blow that theory out of the water in three words. Purple Dragon Knights. They have no magic (except perhaps a few who might have learned some) as most are fighters or perhaps a few palis (and even that's pushing the magic-use), yet they defend Cormyr quite well without it. Sure there are the War Wizards, too, but it's usually the Knights who do most of the work. Same goes for the dwarves of Mithril Hall or Adbar, or the folk of Mirabar, for that matter. Fighters and their ilk can defend- or concquor- a kingdom just as well as any wizards or priests, so that's not much of an argument. Besides which, far more people train with weapons, which gives a distinct numerical advantage. A wizard or priest, no matter HOW powerful, will eventually run out of spells!!! So much for the best arch-villains being magic-users. The best ones, IMO, don't NEED magic to muck things up severely....
----sigh----
You still don't see my point. But that's okay...I'm pretty much in a very good mood now to argue further...I'm still imagining the female Manshoon kissing Fzoul. Perchane you should try thinking of it, too, to see my point above.
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Dracons
Learned Scribe
USA
299 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2010 : 20:04:28
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| Well seeing as Rashemen is also full of warriors and only lead by sorcerers, along with Rashamen's army of barbarians that tear red wizards apart, the whole arch villain only being worthy of threats if they are magic users really isn't holding water. |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2010 : 20:07:55
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I could imagine that well enough without having to muddle it up by trying to see a point I don't happen to agree with. so just exactly what IS your point? That you can't have an arch-villain unless they're frigging immortal because they use magic? Why do all major villains need to be liches, vampires (Strahd comes to mind, and yes, I know he's from RL) or some demented god's Chosen priest? Lolth's preistesses get killed of pretty regularly, and they are about as evil as it gets. Why NOT have a good non-magic villain? Or is that too hard to comprehend? Here's a good example of a non-magic arch-villain: Queen Gedron from Red Sonya(if you're old enough to remember that movie), or how about that creep Damodar from the two D&D movies? Excellent arch-villains, both. (And yes, Damdar was Prophion's lacky originally, but you see how well he out-lasted his master...) or King Einan from Dragonheart, and there are plenty of others both in and out of FR lore. You don't need magic for a great villain, just a really evil guy(or gal) and a little imagination. you know, the kind of person who would kick a starving puppy as they walk by, or take candy from babies, or have their army ride through a kingdom torching everyting, just because they CAN. Well, hopefully with a little bit more motivation then that, but you get my meaning.
I concur, dracons. |
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Edited by - Alystra Illianniis on 06 Jul 2010 20:18:12 |
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Why not an Arch-villainess? [potential SPOILERS]
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